Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[twich]

Plus at least 4 Macross 1/2 class ships that we saw three in the first movie and a new one supposedly in the second Delta movie, plus the YF-29 Durandal for Max.

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, twich said:

Plus at least 4 Macross 1/2 class ships that we saw three in the first movie and a new one supposedly in the second Delta movie, plus the YF-29 Durandal for Max.

Twich

Movie Xaos definitely seems to be a much larger, more established organization than their TV counterparts... who had the one Macross Elysion-type ship, a handful of frigates, and not much else.

(Of course, given how badly they get rolled by the Aerial Knights I'm not sure that actually makes their situation any better.  If anything, it makes the curbstomping they receive less excusable even if the Elysion-type seems to be an older model Macross than the Quarter-class.)

[Master Dex]

21 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Xaos, but yeah... it's shocking how Xaos was basically living paycheck-to-paycheck in the TV series and ran out of money almost immediately once they were ousted from Brisingr, but in there and the movies they seem to have an infinite bank account to fund expensive custom Valkyries.

Hm... maybe those two things are connected.

Maybe the reason Xaos is flat broke is because they're spending their entire operating fund on these super-expensive ace custom Valkyries.

Ya know, I've been thinking on this and... Max being in Xaos just reeks of "Oh you dragged him into your mess? What did you have on him? Were you threatening to tell people Mirage wasn't good enough? Did you kidnap someone?"

Then I realized... NUNS, even before the reorg.. was just giving Max new VFs anyway when he asked cause,.. well.. it's Max! How do we know he didn't get the 29 from them (we don't know when he retired from Battle 7..) and just take it with him? Milia kept her SW1 VF-1J after all...

Though with their fame, skill, and apparently an entire flight school... Max might just be rich and funded it himself. Maybe he is keeping his branch of Xaos afloat lol.

[JB0]

6 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Then I realized... NUNS, even before the reorg.. was just giving Max new VFs anyway when he asked cause,.. well.. it's Max!

 Like Isamu's gambit to get a new VF-19, only done right.

I guess that just calling the factory and asking them to hook you up works better when you're a living legend multiple times over instead of, well, Isamu. They go "yessir, do you want a second in your wife's colors too" instead of "give me every cent you own or I call the police"

[Bolt]

Max could've flown for anyone. Why Xaos..? (So Bandai could sell more Delta  toys!😝)

[Seto Kaiba]

32 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Max could've flown for anyone. Why Xaos..? (So Bandai could sell more Delta  toys!😝)

Because Ernest Johnson's voice actor passed away... so they needed to replace him.

[aurance]

On 4/11/2022 at 8:53 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

That part is a carryover from the VF-25.

On the VF-25, that's a gunmount where the 25mm beam machine guns or 25mm high-speed machine guns are located.  The grille is presumably there to facilitate the gun's cooling system.

On the YF-29, that part seems to be one among many that is shared with the VF-25 as a result of their parallel development and common hardware.  There is no gun there, per the YF-29's stats, but the housing seems to have been carried over as a shared part.

I think they were actually referring to the three black marks aft of the gun vents. And the answer, most likely, is stylization.

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, aurance said:

I think they were actually referring to the three black marks aft of the gun vents. And the answer, most likely, is stylization.

Oh. Yeah that's just paint.

[George Yamamori]

Were the YF/VF-19's wing root laser guns ever used in animation?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, George Yamamori said:

Were the YF/VF-19's wing root laser guns ever used in animation?

I believe they're used in one shot in the low altitude city dogfight between Isamu and Guld in Macross Plus.

[rematron]

I hope this is the proper thread in which to pose this question and I apologize if it is not. Does anyone know which episode features the animated VF-22S Gamlin? 

[deathzealot]

Just now, rematron said:

I hope this is the proper thread in which to pose this question and I apologize if it is not. Does anyone know which episode features the animated VF-22S Gamlin? 

It should be one of the Macross Seven OVA add-ons. There we go it is Macross Dynamite 7, Episode 2. Check out the Macross Mecha Manuel page for that particular fighter.

[rematron]

3 minutes ago, deathzealot said:

It should be one of the Macross Seven OVA add-ons. There we go it is Macross Dynamite 7, Episode 2. Check out the Macross Mecha Manuel page for that particular fighter.

@deathzealotThank you!

[deathzealot]

5 minutes ago, rematron said:

@deathzealotThank you!

You are quite welcome. You can answer any other questions like that by checking the Macross Mecha Manual.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, rematron said:

I hope this is the proper thread in which to pose this question and I apologize if it is not. Does anyone know which episode features the animated VF-22S Gamlin? 

Eh... more or less.

That's Macross Dynamite 7.  Its first appearance is in episode 2 of the OVA, and it also appears in episode 4.

IIRC, it also puts in an appearance in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy.

[George Yamamori]

On 5/2/2022 at 2:34 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

I believe they're used in one shot in the low altitude city dogfight between Isamu and Guld in Macross Plus.

Thank you.

It's hard for me to tell in that scene but are those guns rapid-fire or single-shot?

Edited May 5, 2022 by George Yamamori

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, George Yamamori said:

Thank you.

It's hard for me to tell in that scene but are those guns rapid-fire or single-shot?

I believe they were shown as single-shot weapons... they're definitely depicted that way in Macross 30.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[twich]

Are you discussing the arm laser weapons on the YF-21/VF-22S?

in the Macross plus animation, they are used in rapid fire by Guld in Battroid mode.

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

18 minutes ago, twich said:

Are you discussing the arm laser weapons on the YF-21/VF-22S?

in the Macross plus animation, they are used in rapid fire by Guld in Battroid mode.

Twich

No, the guns mounted on the wing root of the YF/VF-19... the ones that end up on its hips in Battroid mode.

[twich]

Sorry, my confusion, thought you were discussing the arm/vertical stabilizer weapons on the YF-21/VF-22S

Twich

[twich]

2 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

No, the guns mounted on the wing root of the YF/VF-19... the ones that end up on its hips in Battroid mode.

Why don’t we ever see Isamu use those, or the rotary cannons in the chest of the YF-19? Just doesn’t make sense…..

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, twich said:

Why don’t we ever see Isamu use those, or the rotary cannons in the chest of the YF-19? Just doesn’t make sense…..

... there are no rotary cannons on the YF-19's chest.

Its only weapons systems are the REB-30G laser gun on the monitor turret (head), the two cannon mounts on the wing glove that take either a REB-20G converging energy cannon or REB-23 laser cannon, the GU-15 gunpod, the internal weapons bays in the legs, and the underwing pylons.

[Seto Kaiba]

I do find it rather amusing that the animation for firing the wing-glove guns on the YF/VF-19 in Macross 30 basically has the Battroid pelvic thrust at the enemy.

[pengbuzz]

4 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I do find it rather amusing that the animation for firing the wing-glove guns on the YF/VF-19 in Macross 30 basically has the Battroid pelvic thrust at the enemy.

Let's do the time warp agaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn....

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, pengbuzz said:

Let's do the time warp agaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn....

... surprisingly apt, considering the plot of the game.

[George Yamamori]

What are the hardpoint placements for VF-31 as depicted in its Variable Fighter Master File book? What are the names of its hardpoint weapons?

Edited May 16, 2022 by George Yamamori

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, George Yamamori said:

What are the hardpoint placements for VF-31 as depicted in its Variable Fighter Master File book? What are the names of its hardpoint weapons?

So, Variable Fighter Master File only shows one pylon configuration for the VF-31 as a whole.

There has been some inconsistency in official art regarding whether the VF-31 Siegfried custom has two pylons or four like the VF-31A does.  Master File went with four, same as the military spec: one on the inner wing and one on the outer winglet.

The weapons listed are mainly just slightly newer versions of weapons listed in previous books, except for the super-high maneuver missile and the Asura (basically a VF-launched cruise missile).

• AMM-102K/AMM-202K Asp missile (a short-to-mid range interception missile)
• AMM-X5K ducted rocket missile w/ ground attack capability
• AMM-112SQ high-speed interception missile 
• PaCSWS-2C para-cruising stealth weapons system
• ACSWS-1A Super High Maneuver Missile
• ACSWS-1D Super High Maneuver Missile
• AMM-142 Asura

[George Yamamori]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

• AMM-102K/AMM-202K Asp missile (a short-to-mid range interception missile)
• AMM-X5K ducted rocket missile w/ ground attack capability
• AMM-112SQ high-speed interception missile 
• PaCSWS-2C para-cruising stealth weapons system
• ACSWS-1A Super High Maneuver Missile
• ACSWS-1D Super High Maneuver Missile
• AMM-142 Asura

Thanks for the reply.

How many of each per hardpoint? Is it possible for you to upload images of those weapons?

[Seto Kaiba]

49 minutes ago, George Yamamori said:

How many of each per hardpoint?

Three of any of the AMMs on a triple-rack.

Otherwise, one per pylon.

The VF-31 Master File is some pretty uninspired stuff, TBH.

 

49 minutes ago, George Yamamori said:

Is it possible for you to upload images of those weapons?

Generally, I would not upload scans of multiple pages of a book here... though I am also not able to since my scanner died a while back and I've yet to replace it.

[George Yamamori]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Generally, I would not upload scans of multiple pages of a book here... though I am also not able to since my scanner died a while back and I've yet to replace it.

Not looking for full page scans. Just the art for the weapons (cropped or photo).

I managed to find one for the AMM-112SQ:

 

[twich]

I am curious as to why “we” seem to have a lack of the stats from the new Macross delta movie?  What and how has the VF-31AX Kairos Plus been upgraded over the original VF-31A/B? How over Powered is the SV-303?

Twich

[Bolt]

I expect the Macross variable fighter master file is going to be slim on details. Although now would be a great time for a full bodied and detailed description for the VF-31 line in general.  

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, twich said:

I am curious as to why “we” seem to have a lack of the stats from the new Macross delta movie?  What and how has the VF-31AX Kairos Plus been upgraded over the original VF-31A/B? How over Powered is the SV-303?

I'm rather curious as well... it's rather atypical for there to be this little coverage a new Macross movie's new mecha.

Based on the available info, my assumption is that they're 1. waiting for the limited edition Blu-ray and will put those details in the booklet and 2. the actual difference isn't very large.

What we've been told of the Kairos Plus is that it's an improvised upgrade to the stock VF-31A Kairos made after Delta Flight's Siegfried customs were destroyed, built using surviving VF-31A Kairos airframes and spare parts built for Delta Flight's Siegfried customs.  I'd expect that the actual specs are largely the same as the Siegfried's, given that the Siegfried's one real area of difference from the Kairos was the adoption of a fold wave system and FF-3001/FC2 engines and the Kairos Plus's main noted difference is better fold quartz for their fold wave systems they acquired while in hiding.

 

(One detail mentioned in Master File is that the VF-31 Siegfried was able to get away with using smaller, lower purity, and therefore much less expensive fold quartz crystals thanks to some optimizations in the fold wave system's design that sacrificed performance for less-tight tolerances on the fold quartz.  The performance boost was less than the YF-29's and the Siegfried lacked the ability to trigger the system to activate at any time the way the YF-29 could, but it did still provide a respectable performance boost.  Presumably adopting larger, higher purity fold quartz would improve the system's performance boost when active, though given how much of a role Walkure plays in the plot I'd assume it still won't be able to go forcibly activate without an external fold wave source.)

[twich]

It is curious that the fold wave system for the VF-31 Siegfried only activates with introduction of external fold wave sources.  I understand that Delta flight needs Walkure to potentiate themselves, as a plot point, but the SV-262Hs Draken III has the overboost capability that is stronger than the SV-262Ba model by utilizing fold quartz.  I know that the Wandermerans obtained theirs from the protoculture ruins on their home planet.  Is it a lower grade fold quartz?  The reason I ask, is that once activated, the SV-262 and the VF-31 Siegfried seemed to be on even keel, even though the SV-262 has greater engine output at its base with a greater overboost for the SV-262Hs model.

I am also curious as to home much better the mini-gunpods are for the VF-31AX.  On the physical toy, the barrel diameter is twice as big at least as compared to the VF-31 Siegfried toys, now I know that you cant base assessments on the physical toys.  But even looking at the CG renders of the valkyries, there is a big difference in length and diameter for the mini gunpods.  I am curious as to what the official specs will make them out to.  The base VF-31 Kairos has 27mm railguns.  I would not be surprised if we see the stats say that these railguns are in the 35-45mm range, which would put them on par as far as diameter with some main line gunpods like the VF-19, VF-17, VF-11's gunpods.

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, twich said:

It is curious that the fold wave system for the VF-31 Siegfried only activates with introduction of external fold wave sources.  I understand that Delta flight needs Walkure to potentiate themselves, as a plot point, but the SV-262Hs Draken III has the overboost capability that is stronger than the SV-262Ba model by utilizing fold quartz.

It's a decent drama-preserving handicap, if nothing else.

The YF-29's drama preserving handicap was that the cornerstone of its amazing performance - the fold wave system - was absolutely impossible to mass produce because it was built around a prohibitively large amount of ultra-high purity fold quartz of a type that could only reliably be obtained from the carcasses of Vajra queen forms.  That was how they justified there being only one of them in the entire Macross Frontier fleet, rather than having the Frontier NUNS flood the battlefield with uber-powerful anti-Vajra Valkyries.  Giving the VF-31 Custom "Siegfried" a less capable fold wave system that uses less of that ultra-high purity fold quartz allows them to have a gimmick that ties into Walkure's singing in ways that allow Walkure to affect the battle without it becoming a story-breaker power the way the YF-29's fold wave system would have been or demoting the fold wave system itself to mundanity.

Windermere IV has large reserves of fold quartz thanks to having previously been a world settled by the Protoculture, but fold quartz with the requisite size and purity to use in a fold wave system or similar technology is still quite rare.  The Sv-262 Draken III has a more conservative take on the fold wave system concept called a Fold Reheat system.  The operation of the system isn't described in detail, but it seems to do only one thing: improve engine output.  The base Ba model's fold reheat produces a 25% improvement in total engine output, while the Hs command specification uses higher-purity fold quartz provided by the royal family to achieve a 30% output improvement.  That improvement is quite substantial, but the Sv-262 itself doesn't seem to be quite capable of sustaining it given that there's one point in the series where it's mentioned that Keith's reckless use of "wind riding" inflicted enough damage to his Sv-262Hs that it needed a major overhaul.

By contrast, the Fold Wave System used in the YF-29 and VF-31 Custom is a more multipurposeful system.  It improves the performance of thermonuclear reaction engines that were designed to interface with it, but it also provides the Valkyrie with energy via fold dimensional energy conversion and facilitates the detection, interception, and amplification of fold waves.  With an active fold wave system, a Valkyrie can draw out the full potential of its engines while also fully powering every other system like energy conversion armor, pinpoint barriers, and beam weapons.  Even though the VF-31 Custom's cut-down fold wave system is less capable in terms of total thrust output than the Draken III's fold reheat, it's still noted to be far and away the superior system.  (Being able to run the Siegfried's energy conversion armor at full power and activate the pinpoint barriers in fighter mode is itself a pretty huge advantage, since it makes the Siegfried WAY tankier than the Draken III.)

 

31 minutes ago, twich said:

I know that the Wandermerans obtained theirs from the protoculture ruins on their home planet.  Is it a lower grade fold quartz?  The reason I ask, is that once activated, the SV-262 and the VF-31 Siegfried seemed to be on even keel, even though the SV-262 has greater engine output at its base with a greater overboost for the SV-262Hs model.

It's noted to vary... the fold quartz used in the Ba type's fold reheat system is of a lower quality/purity than the type the royal family provides for the Hs type.  How it compares to fold quartz used in the VF-31 Siegfried in absolute terms is unknown.

 

31 minutes ago, twich said:

I am also curious as to home much better the mini-gunpods are for the VF-31AX.  On the physical toy, the barrel diameter is twice as big at least as compared to the VF-31 Siegfried toys, now I know that you cant base assessments on the physical toys.  But even looking at the CG renders of the valkyries, there is a big difference in length and diameter for the mini gunpods.  I am curious as to what the official specs will make them out to.  The base VF-31 Kairos has 27mm railguns.  I would not be surprised if we see the stats say that these railguns are in the 35-45mm range, which would put them on par as far as diameter with some main line gunpods like the VF-19, VF-17, VF-11's gunpods.

We'll probably find out in September when the Blu-rays drop.

I'm sure I'll have lots to rant about then.

Mind you, 27mm is still pretty darn close to that territory.  The VF-11's gunpod was a 30mm one.