Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Valkyrie Driver]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

One thing I did note is that my earlier statement about the YF-29's shoulder missile launchers being a toy feature is incorrect, they're represented in the line art but not mentioned in the official specs.  This would mean the YF-29 has about 130 missiles instead of 100.

Is it possible that you misinterpreted something? Are you sure that there are 3 launchers on each leg? Because the way it looks to me is that there are 2 launchers, one just has 2 ports. 

[SMS007]

Insofar as Macross's "true canon" goes, do the YF-19 and YF-21 have model names? Macross 30 calls them "Excalibur" and "Sturmvögel" [sic], but I've never seen this anywhere else. And none of the YF-24 family shares names between the YF and VF models.

And on that note: I don't understand how someone screwed up "Sturmvogel" as the plural form "Sturmvögel". I've never seen this particular kind of spelling error before in a Japanese work. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by SMS007

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

Is it possible that you misinterpreted something? Are you sure that there are 3 launchers on each leg? Because the way it looks to me is that there are 2 launchers, one just has 2 ports. 

I'm fairly confident that my translation is accurate, but I can revisit it later tonight.

It was four launchers on the outside of each [leg/engine nacelle].  The art in Designers Note definitely leaves that in no doubt.  The launchers form a semi-permanent conformal pack that is split up into two independently movable halves, each with two launcher assemblies built into it (each port is one launcher).  Any other interpretation doesn't work out in terms of both consistent usage and numbers.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Insofar as Macross's "true canon" goes, do the YF-19 and YF-21 have model names? Macross 30 calls them "Excalibur" and "Sturmvögel" [sic], but I've never seen this anywhere else. And none of the YF-24 family shares names between the YF and VF models.

It's uncommon for prototypes and experimental Valkyries to have names at all, the vast majority of which are 5th Generation units.

Offhand, I'm pretty sure the only one outside of the 5th Generation that had a stated name was the VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie.  The YF-19 and YF-21 sometimes get appended with their radio callsigns of "Alpha One" and "Omega One" respectively, but beyond that... nothing.

I'd assume it's probably just the game conflating them, since they shared 3D models with the VF-19A and VF-22 respectively.

 

6 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

And on that note: I don't understand how someone screwed up "Sturmvogel" as the plural form "Sturmvögel". I've never seen this particular kind of spelling error before in a Japanese work. 

Really?  That kind of spelling error, and often much worse, crops up all the time in anime, manga, other media, apparel, and so on.  The YF-27-5's name is also misspelled, the word they're trying for is "Shahar" (a Hebrew word) but they misspell it "Shaher".  They also misspell "Female" as "Femail".

(If I had a dollar for every time I saw "LOCK ON" written as "ROCK ON" by mistake, I'd treat myself to a very nice solid gold Mercedes-Benz.)

The bottom third of the Variable Fighter Designers Note cover has a fair amount of spectacularly awful Engrish, complete with spelling errors and atrocious grammar... and that came out just a few days ago.  

[Valkyrie Driver]

59 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm fairly confident that my translation is accurate, but I can revisit it later tonight.

It was four launchers on the outside of each [leg/engine nacelle].  The art in Designers Note definitely leaves that in no doubt.  The launchers form a semi-permanent conformal pack that is split up into two independently movable halves, each with two launcher assemblies built into it (each port is one launcher).  Any other interpretation doesn't work out in terms of both consistent usage and numbers.

Ok, when you state it that way your interpretation makes more sense. That's just as it is on the toy. 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's uncommon for prototypes and experimental Valkyries to have names at all, the vast majority of which are 5th Generation units.

Offhand, I'm pretty sure the only one outside of the 5th Generation that had a stated name was the VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie.  The YF-19 and YF-21 sometimes get appended with their radio callsigns of "Alpha One" and "Omega One" respectively, but beyond that... nothing.

I'd assume it's probably just the game conflating them, since they shared 3D models with the VF-19A and VF-22 respectively.

That's more or less the same as the real world. Prototypes have working names, project names and such, a notable example is the F-117 which had the project name "Have Blue". Often prototypes have names that rarely correspond to the name that their production model is assigned. More often than not, such names are internal project names used by the company designer.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Really?  That kind of spelling error, and often much worse, crops up all the time in anime, manga, other media, apparel, and so on.  The YF-27-5's name is also misspelled, the word they're trying for is "Shahar" (a Hebrew word) but they misspell it "Shaher".  They also misspell "Female" as "Femail".

Yep, Engrish...

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(If I had a dollar for every time I saw "LOCK ON" written as "ROCK ON" by mistake, I'd treat myself to a very nice solid gold Mercedes-Benz.)

But wouldn't that be really heavy and drive like crap?

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The bottom third of the Variable Fighter Designers Note cover has a fair amount of spectacularly awful Engrish, complete with spelling errors and atrocious grammar... and that came out just a few days ago.  

It's almost like English isn't the primary language of Japan...

[snakerbot]

1 hour ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

That's more or less the same as the real world. Prototypes have working names, project names and such, a notable example is the F-117 which had the project name "Have Blue".

The Have Blue was a different plane than the F-117. The Have Blue was a technology demonstrator that the F-117 was based on. In some ways the Have Blue is to the F-117 what the VF-0 is to the VF-1, but I don't think it's a perfect comparison.

Your overall point still stands though, as the F-117 had the project name "Senior Trend", which is very much not the same as "Night Hawk".

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

Ok, when you state it that way your interpretation makes more sense. That's just as it is on the toy. 

Ayep... but I am powerfully annoyed that the shoulder missile launchers are clearly documented in the line art yet NOT listed in the stats.

 

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

That's more or less the same as the real world. Prototypes have working names, project names and such, a notable example is the F-117 which had the project name "Have Blue". Often prototypes have names that rarely correspond to the name that their production model is assigned. More often than not, such names are internal project names used by the company designer.

Very few VFs have acknowledged program names, but there are at least a few that we know about.  Plenty of internal project designations from developers though, some of which ended up adopted as out-of-sequence designations like the VF-3000.

 

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

But wouldn't that be really heavy and drive like crap?

With enough torque, any car can move like all get-out... and I have the tools to create maximum torque at 0rpm. 

 

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

It's almost like English isn't the primary language of Japan...

I know, right?

They've gotten a lot better in recent years, but every now and then they slip and deliver something truly cringeworthy.

[Valkyrie Driver]

3 hours ago, snakerbot said:

The Have Blue was a different plane than the F-117. The Have Blue was a technology demonstrator that the F-117 was based on. In some ways the Have Blue is to the F-117 what the VF-0 is to the VF-1, but I don't think it's a perfect comparison.

Your overall point still stands though, as the F-117 had the project name "Senior Trend", which is very much not the same as "Night Hawk".

Hmm. I guess I incorrectly recalled that info. I mean I knew that Have Blue was a predecessor to the F-117, I guess I didn't know that there was an intermediate step.

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Quote

But wouldn't that be really heavy and drive like crap?

With enough torque, any car can move like all get-out... and I have the tools to create maximum torque at 0rpm. 

I was kinda hoping you'd pick up on the obscure futurama reference. You know, when Fry and Lela make a deal for Bender's "soul" with the Robot Devil...? A fiddle made of gold is mentioned...

Also, Max torque at 0rpm, how you do dat? I feel like you're jerking my chain, but still...

 

[JB0]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They also misspell "Female" as "Femail".

That is fantastic.

 

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(If I had a dollar for every time I saw "LOCK ON" written as "ROCK ON" by mistake, I'd treat myself to a very nice solid gold Mercedes-Benz.)

True story: The first time I saw ROCK ON instead of LOCK ON was in a Megaman game. Rockman in Japan.

To this day I am unsure if it was intentional or not.

[Podtastic]

So it seems the Gnerl has powerful boosters.

Is it a fully trans-orbital fighter?

Could it function in the very dense atmosphere's and heavy gravitation of a gas giant like Saturn?

Could it travel underwater as we saw Regult do?

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

Also, Max torque at 0rpm, how you do dat? I feel like you're jerking my chain, but still...

No chain-jerking involved... high-voltage electric motors, my friend.

 

 

11 hours ago, JB0 said:

That is fantastic.

Ain't it just?  Having basically no experience with Hebrew, it took me forever to suss out what "Shaher" was supposed to be.  It seemed like a meaningless pseudoword at first.

 

 

11 hours ago, JB0 said:

True story: The first time I saw ROCK ON instead of LOCK ON was in a Megaman game. Rockman in Japan.

To this day I am unsure if it was intentional or not.

... tough call.

 

 

11 hours ago, Podtastic said:

So it seems the Gnerl has powerful boosters.

It might be more accurate to say "the Gnerl is powerful boosters with a cockpit haphazardly welded on".

 

11 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Is it a fully trans-orbital fighter?

Yes.

 

11 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Could it function in the very dense atmosphere's and heavy gravitation of a gas giant like Saturn?

I have no idea, but given that its engines are rockets rather than turbines I would presume it could.  Probably not for very long, or with much hope of a return trip, but hey...

 

11 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Could it travel underwater as we saw Regult do?

Same as above, I would assume that it could just by brute force application of the rocket engines.  Again, probably not for very long.

[SMS007]

Why is there such a serious color discrepancy between the animated VF-171EX and the DX Chogokin? Is that just an operational hazard with white palettes?

Also, I see that the white VF-171EX has those large black weapon accessories in the Frontier TV anime, but in Sayonara no Tsubasa, there is no 171EX; rather Frontier NUNS's standard teal 171 has the large black attachments. Is that just how it works with the Nightmare Plus?

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Why is there such a serious color discrepancy between the animated VF-171EX and the DX Chogokin? Is that just an operational hazard with white palettes?

You'd have to ask Bandai on that score.  I'd assume they probably tried a more animation-accurate matte color and found it made the toy look dirty or faded.  The VF-25F DX has the same issue, being visibly much brighter than its CG model.  IIRC the VF-171EX is supposed to be approximately the same color as the VF-25F, since they're using the same anti-beam ablative coating that makes up the VF-25's paint.

It may simply be an animation shading thing, like how in much of Macross II's pre-remaster cut the VF-2SS looked almost blue because in space they tinted everything a deep blue to make it look dark.

 

 

10 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Also, I see that the white VF-171EX has those large black weapon accessories in the Frontier TV anime, but in Sayonara no Tsubasa, there is no 171EX; rather Frontier NUNS's standard teal 171 has the large black attachments. Is that just how it works with the Nightmare Plus?

For my money, the Macross Frontier the Movie: the Wings of Goodbye version of the VF-171's anti-Vajra specification (VF-171-IIIF) makes more sense than the VF-171EX.  

It's a less radical modification, which makes sense for the more compact timeframe of the Macross Frontier movies, but it incorporates almost all of the same upgrades that went into the VF-171EX/MF25.  It's got the same AA/AS/SF-06 integrated sensor matrix borrowed from the VF-25, the same upgrade to derated FF-2550F thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines, the same new anti-Vajra MDE weaponry... almost all the stuff that could be dropped in or bolted on without major modification to the airframe.  They seem to have forgone the improved energy conversion armor, the VF-25-grade ablative anti-beam coating, and the cockpit reengineering to adopt EX-Gear, which would've required a more serious tear-up.

I think the VF-171EX was only really in Frontier because the story called for Alto and Luca to briefly have a "hero" version of the VF-171, hence its redesign to have a more "hero"-y bubble canopy.

[Valkyrie Driver]

We've probably already mentioned this, but I know that Frontier SMS has VF-19EF's, does that extend to the Frontier NUNS as well?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

We've probably already mentioned this, but I know that Frontier SMS has VF-19EF's, does that extend to the Frontier NUNS as well?

Yep... the Macross Frontier fleet NUNS issued some of the VF-19EF Caliburn units to one of its own special forces squadrons, a unit called Round Table.

[SMS007]

During the Vajra War (TV or movies), did Galaxy NUNS field any other fighter models other than the VF-27 that we just didn't see onscreen?

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, SMS007 said:

During the Vajra War (TV or movies), did Galaxy NUNS field any other fighter models other than the VF-27 that we just didn't see onscreen?

Are we counting the novelization in this?  If so, yes.  Otherwise it's a very definite "maybe"... unless you didn't specifically mean Variable Fighters, since they did have the AIF-9V Ghosts seen in the last episode and the QF-5100D Goblin II drones seen in the second movie as part of the VF-27's Super Pack.

Back in Macross R, set a year before the Vajra conflict, the Macross Galaxy corporate army did have at least one unit (Pegasus squadron) which was outfitted with a local specification version of the old VF-19C (VF-19C/MG21).

The first volume of the Macross Frontier novelization ("Close Encounter") puts a number of other units in the Galaxy fleet's arsenal including a never-before-seen and unfortunately unelaborated-upon VF-17 variant (VF-17F) and several VF-9's that are presumably (but not explicitly said to be) the upgraded VF-9E type.

I would assume that they hadn't had time to upgrade every unit in their corporate army to the VF-27 yet, so there were probably VF-171s offscreen as well.

[Valkyrie Driver]

39 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yep... the Macross Frontier fleet NUNS issued some of the VF-19EF Caliburn units to one of its own special forces squadrons, a unit called Round Table.

Ok. Just what exactly is a Special Forces Squadron in Macross? Is it ever elaborated on what their duties are? How are they different than a front line fighter squadron? 

I'm assuming that Macross still has dedicated missions that we'd recognize from today? Things like SEAD, CAS, Air Interdiction, and Air Superiority. Are those Considered special missions (in an expeditionary capacity)? Are the Main Line Fighter Squadrons solely for fleet defense, while Special Forces actually go out and take out the enemy's support? 

Also, I'm going to assume that Special Forces Pilots are cross trained in dismounted combat, and perform missions similar to modern day special operations forces, such as Special Reconnaissance like we saw in Delta?

 

[SMS007]

38 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Are we counting the novelization in this?  If so, yes.  Otherwise it's a very definite "maybe"... unless you didn't specifically mean Variable Fighters, since they did have the AIF-9V Ghosts seen in the last episode and the QF-5100D Goblin II drones seen in the second movie as part of the VF-27's Super Pack.

Back in Macross R, set a year before the Vajra conflict, the Macross Galaxy corporate army did have at least one unit (Pegasus squadron) which was outfitted with a local specification version of the old VF-19C (VF-19C/MG21).

The first volume of the Macross Frontier novelization ("Close Encounter") puts a number of other units in the Galaxy fleet's arsenal including a never-before-seen and unfortunately unelaborated-upon VF-17 variant (VF-17F) and several VF-9's that are presumably (but not explicitly said to be) the upgraded VF-9E type.

I would assume that they hadn't had time to upgrade every unit in their corporate army to the VF-27 yet, so there were probably VF-171s offscreen as well.

Aha, I forgot to include the novelization in that. But yes, that is what I was looking for, thanks.

*sigh* Damn. Because of the Galaxy conspiracy sacrificing their fleet to advance Vajra research, we'll probably never hear about these again.

Edited November 18, 2017 by SMS007

[Seto Kaiba]

40 minutes ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

Ok. Just what exactly is a Special Forces Squadron in Macross? Is it ever elaborated on what their duties are? How are they different than a front line fighter squadron? 

If the incredibly brief explanation on Macross Chronicle's Worldguide sheet for "Renowned VF Units" is a fair indication, the key distinguishing trait is that they exist separately from the regular chain of command.  A lot of them seem to be centered around commando-esque independent operations in the field, like the Ravens, Hávamál, or the Dancing Skulls¹.  The aforementioned Round Table from the Macross R light novel might also belong to that category, as it was (at least on paper) a special force intended for anti-terrorist² special operations like the others.

Others, like Sound Force and the Jamming Birds, seem to have been given that classification as an effort to find a way to identify irregulars and units containing civilian volunteers on the fleet TO&E, or perhaps because they practiced "unconventional³ warfare" tactics.  It's possible that units which are optimized to fight a particular foe or employ non-standard equipment, like SMS's Skull Platoon, may fall under this category.

Then there's that weird subset that contains units like Diamond Force and Emerald Force, that are seemingly just small units of elite troops who answer directly to the highest-ranking officials in the area and serve as troubleshooters... prestige units that wade into the heaviest combat to turn the tide and deal with especially large threats with maximum force.  This group might also be serving the fleet as guinea pigs, testing the latest fighters in combat before the rank and file get 'em, like Docker's Emerald Force was at least theoretically doing.

 

Quote

I'm assuming that Macross still has dedicated missions that we'd recognize from today? Things like SEAD, CAS, Air Interdiction, and Air Superiority. Are those Considered special missions (in an expeditionary capacity)? Are the Main Line Fighter Squadrons solely for fleet defense, while Special Forces actually go out and take out the enemy's support? 

Those all seem to be, for the most part, the responsibility of the regular forces.  "Special Forces" in the Macross setting seems to be more a catch-all term for anything that doesn't fit neatly into fleet or planetary defense force TO&Es.

 

Quote

Also, I'm going to assume that Special Forces Pilots are cross trained in dismounted combat, and perform missions similar to modern day special operations forces, such as Special Reconnaissance like we saw in Delta?

Most seem to be, outside of the ones in the "irregulars" category who are civilians.

Diamond and Emerald Force gave a good accounting of themselves on foot on numerous occasions, with Gamlin going above and beyond.  The Ravens, I know, also had hand-to-hand and infantry ops training.  I doubt they're actually used in an infantry capacity unless things go horribly south though.

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Aha, I forgot to include the novelization in that. But yes, that is what I was looking for, thanks.

*sigh* Damn. Because of the Galaxy conspiracy sacrificing their fleet to advance Vajra research, we'll probably never hear about these again.

Dunno 'bout that... in the TV series, at least, they lost Battle Galaxy and a good chunk of their fleet but their actual habitat ships and so on are still around.

The legacy of their work certainly seems to be alive in the "present day" of 2067 though... although it's being used against the New UN Forces again.

 

1. Max and Milia's special forces unit from Macross M3.
2. "Anti-terrorist" seems to cover a LOT of ground though, from dealing with actual anti-government forces before they become enough of an issue to merit the en masse attention of the regular forces, to stamping out hostile rogue Zentradi factions and New UN Forces soldiers who've gone off the deep end.  Even investigating anomalous readings from decommissioned bases or areas where normal troops like infantry can't go.
3. In a good, legal, entirely above board let's-all-join-hands-and-sing-rainbow-connection, feel-good sort of way.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[valhary]

anyone know where I can found more information about this valk?

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, valhary said:

anyone know where I can found more information about this valk?

That's Kite Kinjo's VF-171EX Custom from the Macross Delta gaiden manga Macross E.

I hadn't seen as clean a picture of that as the one you posted, so thank you for that.  

Its operator is the Xaos branch office on Pipure, c.2062.  It was originally a stock VF-171EX that was attached to the branch's Echo Platoon, callsign Echo 3.  It was modified into the configuration in the picture after being badly damaged by Var-infected megafauna during a Var suppression experiment for Xaos's Project Thrones - a joint venture with the indie idol group Thrones.  It's essentially a first try at developing a variable fighter developed for supporting a Tactical Sound Unit.  (The idol group Thrones are Xaos's first Tactical Sound Unit, supported by Echo Platoon.)

The modifications weren't anywhere near as extreme as those made to the VF-31 Kairos five years later to create the VF-31 Siegfried, but still involved remodeling the monitor turret, fitting a second seat into the cockpit, and the installation of a "live dome"... a custom radome assembly which had fold amps built in, and was used as a stage by the members of Thrones during operations.  (That thing where Walkure rides Chuck's radome?  Thrones seems to have started that.)  Otherwise, the units were basically stock VF-171EX Nightmare Pluses.

AFAIK the only source of info on it to date is the manga itself.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[valhary]

Thanks Seto Kaiba very impressive!

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, valhary said:

Thanks Seto Kaiba very impressive!

At your service... and thank you once again for a good clean image of this odd little variant of the VF-171.  

I really ought to knuckle down and order the last volume of Macross E at some point.  After seeing them in both Macross Frontier's TV series and Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, the VF-171EX units operated by the Xaos branch on Pipure look subtly wrong without the MDE beam cannon and anti-ship missile rack on the dorsal mounts.  Makes sense they wouldn't have them, though, given the restrictions on using MDE weapons and Xaos seemingly not being as flush with cash as its rival SMS.

[SMS007]

Not about mecha, but somewhat related: when was the first outbreak of Vár syndrome?

Also, are any of the Δ manga still running? In any case, how many chapters does each have? Wikipedia will only tell me how many tankōbon each series has, but I know it's not uncommon for monthly manga to skip a month now and then. 

[Master Dex]

42 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Not about mecha, but somewhat related: when was the first outbreak of Vár syndrome?

Also, are any of the Δ manga still running? In any case, how many chapters does each have? Wikipedia will only tell me how many tankōbon each series has, but I know it's not uncommon for monthly manga to skip a month now and then. 

Might be better for the newbie question thread then...

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Not about mecha, but somewhat related: when was the first outbreak of Vár syndrome?

Var syndrome was first identified by human science at some point in the wake of the Vajra conflict's conclusion in 2059.

That it wasn't discovered until after the Vajra conflict ended seems to be the basis for the highly problematic theory several characters are pushing in the Macross Delta series, that stated that Var syndrome emerged because v-type fold bacteria from the Vajra migrated into new hosts when the Vajra hive left our galaxy.  Kind of a massive scientific cockup, as correlation doesn't imply causation and the theory incorrectly took it as read that Var syndrome was a natural occurrence.  Almost every aspect of that theory doesn't hold up under examination though, and several outright contradict Macross Delta's own prequels.

The first (chronologically speaking) case of Var syndrome depicted in Macross may be in an early mission in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, where one of the earliest Hunters Guild missions has you encounter a unit of Zentradi in Ratatoskr Cave who are seemingly going berserk for no reason and are snapped out of it by Mina's song.

 

6 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Also, are any of the Δ manga still running?

Just the one, AFAIK... the manga adaptation of the Macross Delta series running in Monthly Shonen Sirius.  

Dunno how many chapters it's up to, but it must be at least a dozen.

 

6 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

In any case, how many chapters does each have?

The Black-Winged White Knight ran for 11 chapters, Macross E ran for 9 chapters, and the The Diva Who Guides the Galaxy manga ran for 17.

 

 

[SMS007]

Alright, thanks!

[Podtastic]

What does an MDE beam weapon fire exactly and what are its effects? (Is it in any way similar to a Eldar D-Cannon?)

How powerful would a Nousjadeul-ger top mounted MDE cannon be? Rate of fire? What would be the max effective range in space/earth atmosphere?

And what could be the max destructive potential of Heavy Artillery Pod missile fitted with an MDE warhead be?

 

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Podtastic said:

What does an MDE beam weapon fire exactly and what are its effects? (Is it in any way similar to a Eldar D-Cannon?)

... actually, yes.  Dimension Eater weaponry in the Macross universe is broadly similar to the Vortex weaponry found in Warhammer 40,000.  Minus, of course, the fact that fold space is a heck of a lot lower on the "hyperspace is a scary place" brown pants index than The Warp.

In principle, MDE beam weaponry isn't all that different from more traditional forms of dimensional beam weaponry like the heavy quantum reaction beam weapons used for practically every scale of starship-mounted energy weapon or the heavy quantum beam rifles employed by the most recent models of variable fighter.  They employ a fold dimensional resonance effect to produce and store heavy quantum, a form of exotic matter that exists simultaneously in fold space and normal space which possesses an impossibly high mass on the side in fold space.  The dimensional resonator in the weapon that catalyzes the creation of heavy quantum is made of fold carbon, or in the MDE's case, fold quartz.

• Heavy Quantum Reaction Beam weapons¹ use a resonance fold effect to excite the collected heavy quantum, causing its full mass to drop into normal space.  The gravity produced by its impossibly high mass causes the heavy quantum to collapse in on itself so intensely that the result is an incredibly violent thermonuclear fusion reaction.  This reaction (really more of an explosion) is corralled by the weapon to form a beam of heavy quantum fusion plasma that's carrying a colossal amount of thermal and kinetic energy.
   
• Heavy Quantum beam weapons skip that last step, and just lob beams or bolts of the excited heavy quantum at the enemy.  The high mass of the heavy quantum dropping fully into three dimensional space results in an enormous transfer of kinetic energy to the target.  (It's kinda like having a potato gun fire a potato made of styrofoam that transmutes into a potato made from solid depleted uranium after firing.)
   
• Micro-Dimension Eater beam weapons operate much like a Heavy Quantum Reaction Beam weapon.  The key difference is that they use high-purity fold quartz instead of the synthetic fold carbon resonator, producing a "super" heavy quantum that carries substantially greater mass than regular heavy quantum.  Instead of collapsing on itself so hard it auto-ignites in thermonuclear fusion, that superheavy quantum collapses straight back into fold space in a short-lived but intense fold not dissimilar to a black hole.  The MDE beam weapon is firing a particle beam made up of microsingularities, tiny clots of superheavy quantum whose ultra-intense gravitational pull violently draws in any matter nearby before it collapses into a fold effect that draws the superheavy quantum and captured matter into fold space.

 

The same principles used in the heavy quantum reaction beam weapon and MDE beam weapon apply in thermonuclear reaction warheads and dimensional warheads respectively, though in the former case the heavy quantum is used mainly to compress elemental hydrogen in the warhead, acting as a trigger for a "pure" fusion bomb.

I guess you could say the chief difference between MDE beam weapons and a D-cannon is the quantity of singularities fired... the D-cannon normally fires one big one, the MDE weapon fires billions of microscopic ones, sandblasting the target out of reality.

 

 

8 hours ago, Podtastic said:

How powerful would a Nousjadeul-ger top mounted MDE cannon be? Rate of fire? What would be the max effective range in space/earth atmosphere?

All of those things would be essentially contingent on the output of the Nousjadeul-Ger's reactor, as dimensional beam weapon technology is scalable enough to be used on every level from the coaxial gunmounts on the heads of VFs and small-scale built-in beam weaponry (as on the VF-22) right up to "that's no moon, that's a space station" level applications with barrels kilometers across like the Grand Cannon or Boddole Zer mobile fortress.  The main sticking points would be having a reactor powerful enough to recharge the weapon quickly, a cooling system sufficient to keep the weapon's components from melting (extra important on the heavy quantum reaction guns), and whether the desired rate of fire would mean a reduction in power sufficient to render the weapon ineffective.

All told, I'd expect a MDE beam weapon's range to be reduced substantially in atmosphere as there would be more matter for the microsingularities in the beam to interact with between the firing unit and target in an atmosphere.  A few kilometers at most, from a mecha-scale weapon.

 

8 hours ago, Podtastic said:

And what could be the max destructive potential of Heavy Artillery Pod missile fitted with an MDE warhead be?

Depends on how big the warhead is.  Damage will be more or less directly proportionate to the amount of superheavy quantum in the warhead.  For most purposes, the benefit of MDE isn't in massive area damage... it's in the way MDE is essentially the last word in armor-piercing.  Armor can't repel MDE weapons, because it's not acting against the kinetic or thermal damage resistance of the armor, its intense gravity is simply tearing the armor apart at the atomic level and sucking the resulting mess out of reality.

Given the size of the typical armament on a Regult with missile racks, I wouldn't expect them to be markedly more destructive in terms of blast radius, etc. than a conventional warhead.

[valhary]

Another thing that really intrigue me of this VF 171 is that seems use the same Basara gunpod definitely I have to get this manga

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, valhary said:

Another thing that really intrigue me of this VF 171 is that seems use the same Basara gunpod definitely I have to get this manga

CDJapan has both tankobon pretty cheap... the whole series'll only set you back about ten dollars plus tax and shipping.

The series is also interesting for being the only other story besides Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy to depict VF-27s in the hands of private operators outside of Macross Galaxy.

[SMS007]

If Isamu was in the vicinity of Earth in 2040 but in 2059 his colonial SMS garrison was able to join the battle of the Vajra homeworld, then did he join a colony fleet immediately after the events of Macross Plus? Never to expectably see Earth again? That just sounds rough. 

How long would Chelsea Scarlett have had to spend aboard a transit vessel to be a parliamentarian on Earth in 2067?

Edited November 22, 2017 by SMS007

[JB0]

3 hours ago, SMS007 said:

If Isamu was in the vicinity of Earth in 2040 but in 2059 his colonial SMS garrison was able to join the battle of the Vajra homeworld, then did he join a colony fleet immediately after the events of Macross Plus? Never to expectably see Earth again? That just sounds rough. 

In fairness, after the stunt he pulled, it was probably best to make himself as scarce as possible in very short order after the Sharon Apple incident.  Even if he WAS a hero, the brass knew it was wildly accidental. That he had PLANNED to use a stolen prototype fighter to blow the hell out of Earth's orbital defense satellites and then proceed to blow two hells out of the new prototype fighter platform at its official public unveiling, making everyone involved look very foolish(if not outright incompetent in the public's eye).

Even if they couldn't actually court-martial him for one-shotting the Macross(AKA the Space Pentagon) due to the PR issues associated with locking the "hero" of the Sharon Apple incident up for all eternity on charges of high treason(or possibly just executing him, cloning him, and executing him again), he was NOT going to be a happy camper if he stuck around very long.

[Sildani]

An excellent explanation for the aftermath of Plus. 

Wonder what happened to Myung? Did she come along with Isamu?

Edited November 22, 2017 by Sildani
Stupid stupid autocorrect - see below

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, SMS007 said:

If Isamu was in the vicinity of Earth in 2040 but in 2059 his colonial SMS garrison was able to join the battle of the Vajra homeworld, then did he join a colony fleet immediately after the events of Macross Plus? Never to expectably see Earth again? That just sounds rough. 

We don't know what SMS branch office employed Isamu Dyson after he'd retired from the New UN Spacy.  All we can say with certainty is that he retired from the New UN Spacy to join SMS after he concluded his participation as the test pilot assigned to Shinsei Industry's YF-24 Evolution program following the successful final demonstration to the New UN Forces in 2057.  Considering what had happened to him in the wake of the Sharon Apple incident, he probably considered retiring to join SMS the best decision he'd made since 2040.

Exactly where he was and how he got to the Frontier fleet's position so quickly is a mystery... one that I'm inclined to chalk up to Talos's pet theory that the Macross Frontier movies are also an in-universe docu-drama like DYRL?, New UN Government-sponsored propaganda exercise which was meant to make the New UN Forces and SMS look much more heroic and capable than they really were.¹

 

9 hours ago, SMS007 said:

How long would Chelsea Scarlett have had to spend aboard a transit vessel to be a parliamentarian on Earth in 2067?

Dunno.  It's possible that, since the New UN Government parliament is based on Earth that they've got faster ships than the emigrant fleets.  Earth is the most technologically-advanced New UN Gov't member world and has all the best toys, so I wouldn't put it past them to have some zero-time fold couriers for government business.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, JB0 said:

In fairness, after the stunt he pulled, it was probably best to make himself as scarce as possible in very short order after the Sharon Apple incident.  Even if he WAS a hero, the brass knew it was wildly accidental. That he had PLANNED to use a stolen prototype fighter to blow the hell out of Earth's orbital defense satellites and then proceed to blow two hells out of the new prototype fighter platform at its official public unveiling, making everyone involved look very foolish(if not outright incompetent in the public's eye).

Even if they couldn't actually court-martial him for one-shotting the Macross(AKA the Space Pentagon) due to the PR issues associated with locking the "hero" of the Sharon Apple incident up for all eternity on charges of high treason(or possibly just executing him, cloning him, and executing him again), he was NOT going to be a happy camper if he stuck around very long.

Well... it seems Isamu wasn't joking when he said luck was one of his skills.

Col. Johnson from the New Edwards Test Flight Center covered for Isamu (and Guld), taking most of the blame himself.  He was helped immensely by a public backlash against autonomous fighters and virtuoids that inevitably resulted and the plaudits that came from his men having stopped both from wreaking further havoc on Earth, the scandal surrounding the discovery that Sharon Apple had been illegally outfitted with unstable bio-neural processing hardware by the Venus Sound Factory and that the AIF-X-9 Ghost's AI was based on some of Sharon Apple's technology, and that the NUNS's brass were grudgingly impressed as hell by the YF-19 and YF-21 doing several things thought to be quite impossible in the space of a single afternoon.  Put simply, New UN Government and New UN Forces officials weren't about to argue with results while they were busy covering their own arses.... likely while telling the news what a wonderful person they thought Isamu was and how they just couldn't wait to pin enough medals to him that he'd stand lopsided the rest of his life.

As a result, Isamu not only avoided pretty much any disciplinary action beyond a stern talking-to... he got to keep his test pilot job AND he got promoted.  Well, arguably that promotion was the real punishment.  They kicked him upstairs to minimize his opportunities for getting into trouble by the simple expedient of chaining him to a desk.  He still stuck it out a further seventeen years at New Edwards TFC and served as a test pilot for Shinsei's YF-24 Evolution before taking a well-deserved retirement at the rank of Major to join Strategic Military Services.

 

 

1 hour ago, Sildani said:

Wonder what happened to Myung? Did she come along with Islamic?

Autocorrect is a hell of a thing.

We don't know what became of Myung Fang Lone after the Sharon Apple incident.

 

 

1. Most notably, how the movie version of Macross Frontier alters the details of the involvement several New UN Forces senior officers had in the Macross Galaxy fleet conspiracy.  Colonel Grace Godunova of the Macross Galaxy corporate army went from being the architect of the conspiracy to being an unwilling cyborg puppet of the Galaxy fleet executives.  Likewise, Major Brera Sterne was presented as a mind-controlled slave of the executives rather than a soldier acting of his own volition most of the time.  General(?) Leon Mishima was depicted as being an ambitious moron and social climber who was only dimly aware of the Galaxy fleet's conspiracy and actively working to interfere with its execution instead of being one of Grace's co-conspirators and the author of President Glass's assassination and a subsequent coup d'etat.  This also let Brigadier General Pelliot (AKA Brigadier General Jean-Luc Tarkovsky in the novels) and 1st Lt. Catherine Glass off the hook as having no connection, direct or otherwise, to a Galaxy conspirator even before the conspiracy became known.