Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[JB0]

Just now, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd imagine they probably used their copy of the government codes to level a wobbly table or something.

Surely they would just use AR to make the table look like it doesn't wobble.

 

Overtech fusion generators can probably get some power outta paper, though!

[RedWolf]

On 12/16/2021 at 4:08 PM, pengbuzz said:

Really appreciate your take on this. Meantime, would it be out of line to infer that the YF-21 project's brain-direct systems at least contributed to the Galaxy's activities in their fleet involving their peopel?

I'm more of the opinion the technology behind Myung's personality being the basis of Sharon Apple's personality is more significant. We know at least the first generation of clones were copies of reliable personnel as they were parentless. Later generation of clones had actual childhood. We know at least one of the conspirators Manfred Brando created a digital copy of himself prior to his death.

 

If we go by DYRL lore Meltrandi are Cyborgs while their Commander which is the Mobile Fortress itself is an AI.

I suspect there is some existential crisis in some of the clones. Marge Guldoa looks and sounds like Maximillian Jenius yet went full Mad Scientist. He sought a form of immortality through his creation. If so some seeking Transhumanism think it is the answer to their existence and worth. Cause when you think about it some of your clone brothers could become presidents such as Howard and Serge Glass or end up like as a cabbie. What looks like Howard Glass was driving a cab in Frontier.

As for the Sv series particularly the the Sv-262 when Dian Cecht bought Sv Works from General Galaxy former Anti-UN manufacturers teamed up with Sv Works to make the Sv-262. Epsilon Foundation has a nasty habit of supplying individuals who are bit broken in the head. Ivan Tsar, Gramia and Cromwell. 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, RedWolf said:

I'm more of the opinion the technology behind Myung's personality being the basis of Sharon Apple's personality is more significant.

Myung Fang Lone's psychological issues definitely played a role because her emotional responses were sampled to simulate emotional responses in the computer model of the human brain that governed Sharon's behavior.  That said, both the OVA and Movie versions of Macross Plus are pretty clear that Sharon was little more than an elaborate puppet thanks to an incomplete AI system until she was outfitted with the prohibited bio-neural chip and became self-aware.  Her AI was a separate development from the work done in cybernetics, with Macross Chronicle asserting the Sharon-type AI was sponsored by the New UN Forces for use as a sort of supervisory AI to maintain public order in emigrant fleets due to the less-than-comfortable living conditions in early emigrant ship types.

 

4 hours ago, RedWolf said:

I suspect there is some existential crisis in some of the clones. Marge Guldoa looks and sounds like Maximillian Jenius yet went full Mad Scientist. He sought a form of immortality through his creation.

Undoubtably there were some "cloning blues", though the New UN Government seems to have deliberately acted to separate clones for that reason.

Marge's issues are attributed by Macross Chronicle to an unhealthy obsession with Sharon Apple rather than anything to do with his upbringing though.  For him, it may have been a bit of an ego thing since he was the lead developer on the Sharon-type AI and when Sharon Apple debuted she was falsely promoted as not just a completed AI system, but also as being able to feel authentic human emotion.  The AI was actually incomplete and the emotion program just didn't work, so he was probably quietly seething for a good while at being made to look a fraud.  He seemed to see Sharon's true completion as his vindication, and eventually her awakening as her becoming an actual life form.

(He does show some transhumanist leanings philosophically, like when he notes he doesn't share Aristotle's view that the mind must be tied to the flesh... which is actually pretty reasonable when humanity has access to cloning systems able to transfer consciousness between bodies.)

 

4 hours ago, RedWolf said:

As for the Sv series particularly the the Sv-262 when Dian Cecht bought Sv Works from General Galaxy former Anti-UN manufacturers teamed up with Sv Works to make the Sv-262. Epsilon Foundation has a nasty habit of supplying individuals who are bit broken in the head. Ivan Tsar, Gramia and Cromwell. 

That's just regular war profiteering by the Epsilon Foundation... though they started dealing with Ivan Tsari and Grammier Neirich Windermere VI under entirely legitimate conditions.  

[Seto Kaiba]

All told, it's about time this got a freshening too to cover the new info from Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!!.

 

For the sake of convenience, the following rant will be color-coded!  
VFs that officially exist and have appeared in a Macross official setting work
VFs that officially exist and have NOT appeared in a Macross official setting work.
VFs that exist solely in non-official works like Variable Fighter Master File
VFs whose placement is speculative.

Last Edited: 23 Dec 2021 - added SV-303 Vivasvat and VF-31AX Kairos Plus to 5.5th Generation

 

Generation 0 - "Prototype Generation"
This generation is purely speculative and exists mainly to segregate designs that do not fully comply with the design qualifications for the First Generation Variable Fighter (e.g. thermonuclear reaction turbine engines) and were built principally for evaluation purposes rather than mass produced for actual combat service.

• YVF-X-0
• VF-0 Phoenix (YVF-X-0B)
• VF-0-NF
• Sv-50
• Sv-51
• Sv-51Σ (Unmanned Sv-51)

 

Generation 0.5 - "Upgraded Prototype Generation"
This generation contains designs that exist only in Variable Fighter Master File.  These VF designs are upgrades of the 0th Generation prototypes that were upgraded with technology from 1st Generation VFs or otherwise modernized to make them viable for long-duration operation.

• VF-0+ Phoenix Plus
• Sv-51Ω (Repurposed incomplete Sv-52 with conventional engines)

 

Generation 1 - "First Generation"
The defining traits of this generation are the adoption of Overtechnology, including thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, laser weaponry, energy converting armor, etc. in a production variable fighter.

• Sv-52
• VF-1 Valkyrie
• VF-X-2

 

Generation 1.5 - "Upgraded First Generation"
First Generation designs upgraded with Second Generation hardware drawn from the VF-4.

• Sv-51 Replica (Macross 30)
• VF-0 Phoenix Replica (Macross 30)
• VF-1 Valkyrie Plus (Blocks 6 and later, incl. VF-1X)
• VF-1P Freyja Valkyrie
• VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus
• VF-1C Civilian Valkyrie
• VF-1EX Valkyrie EX
• VF-3000S Crusader
• VF-3000B

 

Generation 2 - "Specialization for Emigrant Fleets"
The hallmarks of the Second Generation designs include the adoption of Zentradi overtechnology, refinements for regime-optimized performance in either atmosphere or space, "lessons learned" from the First Space War, and optionally the adoption of particle beam weaponry.  Most were intended for use by emigrant fleets, with low cost, simplified manufacturing, and parts-sharing.

• VF-X-3
• VF-4 Lightning III
• VF-3000S Crusader
• VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie
• VF-5000 Star Mirage
• VF-5
• VF-6
• VF-7
• VF-9 Cutlass
• VF-X-10
• V-BR-2
• VA-X-3

 

Generation 2.5 - "Upgraded Second Generation"
Second Generation VFs that were modernized to keep them in service alongside Third Generation VFs.

• VF-4G Lightning III
• VF-5000G Star Mirage
• VF-9E Cutlass

 

Generation 3 - "Project Nova and Diversification"
The Third Generation VFs are defined chiefly by the Project Nova design contest that decided the generation's main variable fighter as a true all-purpose successor to the VF-1 Valkyrie, but also by the continuing diversification of variable craft design into dedicated Attacker and Bomber roles.

• VF-11A/B/C/D Thunderbolt 
• VF-14 Vampire
• VF-15
• VF-17A/B/C Nightmare
• VA-14
• VAB-2
• VA-3
• VBP-1/VA-110 Variable Glaug
• VB-6

 

Generation 3.5 - "Upgraded Third Generation"
Third Generation VFs that've been modernized or upgraded with technology drawn from Fourth Generation VFs to keep them viable or evaluate technologies meant for Fourth Generation implementation.

• VF-11MAXL Thunderbolt 
• VF-11C Thunderbolt Interceptor
• VF-16
• VF-17D/F/S/T Nightmare
• XVF-19 (a modified VF-11)
• Fz-109 Elgersoln
• Az-130 Panzersoln
• FBz-99 Zaubergern

 

Generation 4 - "Project Super Nova: the Advanced Variable Fighter"
The Fourth Generation's distinctive design traits are among the best known in Macross.  The adoption of the next-gen ARIEL airframe control AI, thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines, fighter-scale pinpoint barrier systems, and native compatibility for fold boosters.  This generation was largely defined by Project Super Nova, the ultimately futile contest between the YF-19 and YF-21 at Eden's New Edwards Test Flight Center.  The insurmountable technological and performance complications of the two designs led to a third design, the VF-171, becoming this generation's main variable fighter.

• VF-19 Excalibur
• YF-21
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II (SMS Type)
• VF/B-22 Jagdvogel II
• VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• VB-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• RVF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• Sv-154 Svard
• Feios Valkyrie
• Fz-109G Elgersoln Gustav
• VBP-1/VA-110(改) Neo Glaug bis

 

Generation 4.5 - "Upgraded Fourth Generation"
The Generation 4.5 designs are few, and consist mostly of VF designs that were either upgraded to evaluate tech for eventual adoption by Generation 5 designs, or ones that were upgraded in extremis to make them more effective in combat against the Vajra.

• VF-19ACTIVE Nothung
• VF-19EF Caliburn
• RVF-19EF Caliburn
• VF-19EF/A Excalibur ADVANCE
• VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Manfred"
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Ushio Todo Custom"
• VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Block III and IIIF)
• VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX
• VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX Throne
• RVF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX
• Queadluun Alma

 

Generation 5 - "Project Evolution and Decentralized Development"
The Fifth Generation of Variable Fighters started development as a response to the disastrous first contact with the insectoid alien race known as the Vajra.  Existing VF designs proved utterly inadequate to rival the performance of Vajra drones, and new programs were launched to develop countermeasures for the high-g forces and other major problems with the newly finalized Fourth Generation.  The design hallmarks of Fifth Generation Variable Fighters include the adoption of Inertia Store Converter technology to insulate the cockpit against high g-forces, Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, contactless Linear Actuator technology for transformation, the ARIEL II airframe control AI, Extender Gear (EX-Gear) user interfaces, Advanced Energy Conversion Armor (ASWAG), and heavy quantum beam weaponry.

• YF-24
• YF-24 Evolution
• VF-24
• YF-25 Prophecy
• VF-25 Messiah
• YF-26
• YF-27 Shahar
• VF-27 Lucifer
• YF-28 
• YF-29 Durandal
• YF-29B Percival (NUNS Ver.)
• YF-30 Chronos
• YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Ver.)
• VF-30
• VF-31 Kairos
• Sv-262 Draken III
• Queadluun Alma
• Unknown New VF - Absolute LIVE!!!!!!

 

Generation 5.5 - "Fold Wave Performance Enhancement"
The precise criteria for considering a design to belong to Generation 5.5 are unclear at the present time, but remarks by Tactical Sound Unit Walkure leader Kaname Buccaneer and team mechanic Makina Nakajima suggest that a Fifth Generation VF which has been upgraded with a fold wave-based performance enhancement system may technically qualify as Generation 5.5.  The only craft explicitly identified as belonging to this VF Generation is the Xaos Valkyrie Works VF-31 Siegfried, which may indicate Generation 5.5 is an informal classification used only by Xaos.  Previous media have suggested the VF-31 Siegfried and others are considered Fifth Generation VFs.

• YF-28
• YF-29 Durandal
• YF-29B Percival
• YF-30 Chronos
• YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Ver.)
• VF-30
• VF-31 Siegfried (Xaos Custom)
• Sv-262 Draken III
• Sv-303 Vivasvat
• VF-31AX Kairos Plus

[snakerbot]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

YF-28 

Is this the wrong color or did I miss something somewhere?

Also, the Compendium article for the VF-15 describes a "biological anti-G boost system". What is that and did it persist until the advent of the ISC?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, snakerbot said:

Is this the wrong color or did I miss something somewhere?

"YF-28" is on the list because it's mentioned in Macross the Ride, though the rumors connected to it in the story where it's assumed to be a Macross Galaxy-developed rival to the Macross Frontier fleet arsenal's YF-29 actually refer to the production VF-27 design.  At the time, Macross Galaxy was hiding the true specs of the VF-27 behind a misinformation campaign with the help of some purpose-built lower spec prototypes including the YF-27-3 Shahar Female type.

 

3 hours ago, snakerbot said:

Also, the Compendium article for the VF-15 describes a "biological anti-G boost system". What is that and did it persist until the advent of the ISC?

All we know is what's mentioned in the article... it's some kind of system that uses lasers, electromagnetic pulses, infrared stimulation, and other means to activate the body's own natural resistance to stress.

[RedWolf]

We know that somebody in LAI leaked the four engine concept of the YF-29 to Macross Galaxy that they implemented in the mass produced VF-27.

[Seto Kaiba]

21 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

We know that somebody in LAI leaked the four engine concept of the YF-29 to Macross Galaxy that they implemented in the mass produced VF-27.

It's actually presented more along the lines of LAI itself leaked the information...

[pengbuzz]

On 12/24/2021 at 12:24 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

All we know is what's mentioned in the article... it's some kind of system that uses lasers, electromagnetic pulses, infrared stimulation, and other means to activate the body's own natural resistance to stress.

I guess it was either that, or start fueling the mechs with marijuana...

[snakerbot]

On 12/24/2021 at 12:43 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's actually presented more along the lines of LAI itself leaked the information...

Any indication why they did this?

[aurance]

If anyone’s seen Delta movie 2, do you know what the Kairos AX’s thermometer cannon does compared to, say, its gunpod?

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I guess it was either that, or start fueling the mechs with marijuana...

That's a different kind of resistance to stress... lol

Still, that the military was experimenting with ways of artificially boosting a Valkyrie pilot's resistance to high g-forces even before the YF-19 and YF-21 is an interesting point.  We know the VF-16 used the initial type thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engine and that those engines produced enough power for running up against a pilot's biological limit in terms of sudden changes in g-force loads as on the VF-17D type and 4th Generation VFs.  One has to wonder if the systems trialed on the VF-15 simply weren't up to the job when it came to fighters able to pull 10+ G's in straightline acceleration.

 

8 hours ago, snakerbot said:

Any indication why they did this?

No reason explicitly given... I'd suspect that, as with most shady corporate deals, there were some kickbacks or other anticompetitive behaviors involved somewhere along the line like the promise of being awarded supplier contracts.  Legodt & Angeloni Industries made a LOT of different high-tech products from personal computers to micloning machines... 

[seti88]

So is the SV-303 is going to be as large or bigger than the 31AX? 

Is this the evolution of valkyries going forward? Ie. Bigger but sleeker?
What will be the next evolutionary design jump?

[Seto Kaiba]

24 minutes ago, seti88 said:

So is the SV-303 is going to be as large or bigger than the 31AX? 

Hard to say... we haven't seen any actual specs for it yet.

I'd assume its Battroid mode will be close to the average 15m size.

 

24 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Is this the evolution of valkyries going forward? Ie. Bigger but sleeker?

While it can be kind of hard to tell from the toys, many of which aren't in precise scale, Valkyries kind of hit a size plateau starting in the 4th Generation designs introduced for both the Macross Plus OVA and Macross 7 series.  Later designs got simmer alt-modes now that hand-drawn animation has been replaced by computer-aided animation and ful 3D CGI animation, but starting from around the VF-17 they've all been tailored to produce a Battroid that's approximately 15m tall.  That puts them at pretty close to the same size as your standard Zentradi battle suits and pods, and half-again the size of a Zentradi infantryman.  Being around the same size as Zentradi standard mecha was probably the goal, at least in-universe.  Once they hit that point, they rarely went bigger except in the case of special duty units (mainly Bombers).

 

24 minutes ago, seti88 said:

What will be the next evolutionary design jump?

Both Macross Frontier and Macross Delta have generally set a trajectory towards fold wave-based performance enhancement systems being the Next Generation core technology.

Macross Delta's Blu-ray extra features indicated that the 5th Generation VF-31 Kairos was considered to be a 5.5th Generation VF once it was upgraded with a fold wave system and compatible engine design.  Master File also took a similar view, suggesting the YF-29 may technically be a 6th Generation VF.

So I'd expect the next evolution of the VF concept is a productionized version of the Fold Wave System... probably with synthetic fold quartz.  Not just for greater engine output, but a move towards powering VFs with fold dimensional energy conversion and probably some of the other fold wave-driven advancements like the Sv-303 Vivasvat's fold wave-based energy conversion armor.

[sketchley]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hard to say... we haven't seen any actual specs for it yet.

I'd assume its Battroid mode will be close to the average 15m size.

Great Mechanics G 2021 Winter states that the Sv-303 is "equipped with 6 Ghosts" (in Battroid: 2 on each leg nacelle, 1 on each back/wing nacelle).

As they are comparable* in size and shape to the LD-262S Lilldraken on the Sv-262, it gives us a starting point to inferring the Sv-303's size.

 

* I'd like to say EXACTLY the same, but with their confusing colouring and the small image sizes, it's hard to say for sure.

 

EDIT:  images courtesy https://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/delta-movies/sv-303.htm

without Ghosts:

with ghosts (the pinky-purple lined parts on the lower legs, as well as all the extra fins and flight surfaces.  The 2 Ghosts on the back nacelles not visible in the image):

Edited December 26, 2021 by sketchley

[RedWolf]

It think the Dimension Eater was originally a Macross Galaxy innovation. And leaked the tech to LAI in turn. 

NUNS probably has an idea how to weaponize into a WMD Fold Quartz but it was Macross Galaxy that was crazy enough to use it on a A class biosphere. Fold Quartz has been known to exist since 2043. Critical Path CEO Manfred Brando used it for his Sound Jamming System in 2050 to 2051.

 

Macross Galaxy blowing up Gaul 4 dashed Windermere's economic ambitions. Their war of independence was really about resource independence. And to get out of their Mutual Defense Treaty they keep complaining about. Boo-hoo! We only want to protect Windermere why should we stick our necks for the rest of the cluster? Our lives are too short!

[seti88]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hard to say... we haven't seen any actual specs for it yet.

I'd assume its Battroid mode will be close to the average 15m size.

Yeah, i am speculating the 303 might be as large as the 31AX, merely based on how the older sv-262 matched the 31 battroid in size.  

Thats an interesting observation on the 15m size and correlations with the zentradi battle-pods. I suppose unless there is a new species of enemy to take the fight to, that might be the only consideration in order to have bigger valks.

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So I'd expect the next evolution of the VF concept is a productionized version of the Fold Wave System... probably with synthetic fold quartz.  Not just for greater engine output, but a move towards powering VFs with fold dimensional energy conversion and probably some of the other fold wave-driven advancements like the Sv-303 Vivasvat's fold wave-based energy conversion armor.

Could fold wave conversion armor be weaponised, perhaps replacing need for missiles lets say?

Just trying to think of an extreme design make-over of the traditional valk silhouette. After all the yf-30->31->31AX silhouette is 8ish (?) yrs old.

How could production fold quartz tech, affect valk design to take us through to macross 50th anniversary? Non seethru cockpit perhaps..😅 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, RedWolf said:

It think the Dimension Eater was originally a Macross Galaxy innovation. And leaked the tech to LAI in turn. 

If only the large-scale version... it's noted that the miniaturized version (MDE) was an invention of Legodt & Angeloni Industries in the Frontier fleet.

 

10 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Macross Galaxy blowing up Gaul 4 dashed Windermere's economic ambitions. Their war of independence was really about resource independence. And to get out of their Mutual Defense Treaty they keep complaining about. Boo-hoo! We only want to protect Windermere why should we stick our necks for the rest of the cluster? Our lives are too short!

Even if Macross Galaxy hadn't used a Dimension Eater to destroy Gallia IV, the New UN Government would almost certainly have still imposed the same restrictions on harvesting and trading in fold quartz to avoid seeing the proliferation of the smaller-scale but still incredibly potent Dimension Cutters and MDE weapons and avoid antagonizing more Vajra hives.

Windermere IV's government seems to have been profoundly upset about practically any of their obligations as a New UN Government member nation.  The New UN Government restrictions on trading in fold quartz were simply the most frustrating single point under the broad header of their discontent with their world's slow economic development.  That may have been exacerbated somewhat by their short lifespans.  To a human, 10-15 years is maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of their working life.  To a Windermerean, that same period is pretty much the entire span as an economically active adult.  Rather than take the time to develop their economy properly, given that they'd started out as an agricultural world still in its feudal period and skipped right to the interstellar age, they wanted instant economic success even though the entire region of space they were in was struggling economically as the result of its isolation.

 

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

Thats an interesting observation on the 15m size and correlations with the zentradi battle-pods. I suppose unless there is a new species of enemy to take the fight to, that might be the only consideration in order to have bigger valks.

As firepower has increased, I think we'll probably see things stay the same size now that beam weapons are becoming the standard rather than increasingly powerful solid ammo guns.

 

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

Could fold wave conversion armor be weaponised, perhaps replacing need for missiles lets say?

Hard to say... one of the problems underpinning all of these fold wave technologies is the need for an appropriate fold wave source to activate them.  Master File, at least, takes the view that the YF-29's impossible-to-mass-produce Fold Wave System could force-activate itself without the need for an external fold wave source due to the massive amount of the ultra-high purity fold quartz it used.  More resource-conscious versions need an external fold wave source to activate, which is why them used in Macross Delta when Windermere's Aerial Knights are burning up their runes and Walkure are singing.

The whole funnels/bits thing has been done, but I'd expect an explosive warhead intended to breach energy conversion armor would probably be more effective against the armor than a high-velocity shank.

 

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

Just trying to think of an extreme design make-over of the traditional valk silhouette. After all the yf-30->31->31AX silhouette is 8ish (?) yrs old.

How could production fold quartz tech, affect valk design to take us through to macross 50th anniversary? Non seethru cockpit perhaps..😅 

Yeah, though in-universe the amount of time between Valkyrie generations has been growing.

The 1st Generation was about eight years in development but lasted only about twelve years as main fighter.  The 2nd Generation was in nominal main fighter service for around 18 years.  The 3rd had 20+.  The 4th is still hanging on almost 30 in-universe years.  The 5th Generation is only JUST entering service in the 2060s in most places.  So unless we skip a good couple decades down the road I'd expect to keep seeing 5th Generation YF-24 derivatives for a while.

The full panoramic cockpit thing has been an on-and-off feature since the Gen 3 VF-17, but I'd expect the seamless version we saw in Delta to become the norm eventually... though that's not fold quartz tech, that's just holographic projection.  (Depending on which source you ask, holographic projectors may use fold carbon tho, like Walkure's supposedly do.)

I'm kind of expecting to see more emphasis on smaller Ghosts similar to the funnels and bits that were present in Macross II's timeline, as well as a move away from conventional cannons to railguns and especially beam weapons.  Now that VFs have enough spare generator power to operate a large external particle or dimensional beam cannon, there's no major obstacle to doing away with solid ammo cannons in favor of something that has effectively unlimited ammunition as long as the generator is running.

[no3Ljm]

[Knight26]

I want to see that fighter mode

 

[Gerli]

Not sure if this was discussed previously but... How is the correct way to put the U.N.SPACY decal on the Gunpod? The way is used in battroid-mode or in Fighter-mode?

 

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, Gerli said:

Not sure if this was discussed previously but... How is the correct way to put the U.N.SPACY decal on the Gunpod? The way is used in battroid-mode or in Fighter-mode?

 

Most of the time, the way it's drawn is with the UN SPACY marking oriented so that it's right-side up when the gunpod is attached to the underside of Fighter mode... so upside-down when it's handheld, as in the box art.

[pengbuzz]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Windermere IV's government seems to have been profoundly upset about practically any of their obligations as a New UN Government member nation.  The New UN Government restrictions on trading in fold quartz were simply the most frustrating single point under the broad header of their discontent with their world's slow economic development.  That may have been exacerbated somewhat by their short lifespans.  To a human, 10-15 years is maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of their working life.  To a Windermerean, that same period is pretty much the entire span as an economically active adult.  Rather than take the time to develop their economy properly, given that they'd started out as an agricultural world still in its feudal period and skipped right to the interstellar age, they wanted instant economic success even though the entire region of space they were in was struggling economically as the result of its isolation.

 

Hmmm...you'd think then that there would also be increasing studies to see about the possibility of lengthening their lifespans (unless they tried that already and it came up zilch).

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm kind of expecting to see more emphasis on smaller Ghosts similar to the funnels and bits that were present in Macross II's timeline, as well as a move away from conventional cannons to railguns and especially beam weapons.  Now that VFs have enough spare generator power to operate a large external particle or dimensional beam cannon, there's no major obstacle to doing away with solid ammo cannons in favor of something that has effectively unlimited ammunition as long as the generator is running.

Kinda heading the same direction as MII: away from solid ammo and towards beam weapons and bits/squires.

(unless they develop a gunpod that fires bits)

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Hmmm...you'd think then that there would also be increasing studies to see about the possibility of lengthening their lifespans (unless they tried that already and it came up zilch).

Modern medicine alone seems to have done a fair bit... the average Windermerean life expectancy is 30 years, and at least two of the Windermerean characters in the series have exceeded that by a decent margin.  Hermann Kroos is still physically fit enough to not only fight on the front lines but serve as a top ace at 33 (10% over) and King Grammier was said to be over 35 at the start of the series, meaning he beat the average by 20% by the time he was murdered.

(It's not an exact comparison, but in Japan if you beat the average life expectancy by 20% you've made it 101.)

I suppose extending the Windermerean lifespan would probably depend on what exactly their aging process does that causes them to seem to crystallize or whatever that is.  It seems to be connected to their runes too, since overusing them accelerates the physical deterioration to a potentially incapacitating (e.g. Prince Heinz II) or lethal (Qasim) point.  You can hardly blame Keith for being a bit salty toward the Protoculture for their decision to give the Windermereans such short lives.

 

4 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Kinda heading the same direction as MII: away from solid ammo and towards beam weapons and bits/squires.

(unless they develop a gunpod that fires bits)

Well, we already had Hathaway's Flash-style funnel missiles in Macross II on one of the Mardook mecha...

[pengbuzz]

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Modern medicine alone seems to have done a fair bit... the average Windermerean life expectancy is 30 years, and at least two of the Windermerean characters in the series have exceeded that by a decent margin.  Hermann Kroos is still physically fit enough to not only fight on the front lines but serve as a top ace at 33 (10% over) and King Grammier was said to be over 35 at the start of the series, meaning he beat the average by 20% by the time he was murdered.

(It's not an exact comparison, but in Japan if you beat the average life expectancy by 20% you've made it 101.)

I suppose extending the Windermerean lifespan would probably depend on what exactly their aging process does that causes them to seem to crystallize or whatever that is.  It seems to be connected to their runes too, since overusing them accelerates the physical deterioration to a potentially incapacitating (e.g. Prince Heinz II) or lethal (Qasim) point.  You can hardly blame Keith for being a bit salty toward the Protoculture for their decision to give the Windermereans such short lives.

 

Well, we already had Hathaway's Flash-style funnel missiles in Macross II on one of the Mardook mecha...

Makes me think that their crystalizing is them becoming fold quartz.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Makes me think that their crystalizing is them becoming fold quartz.

Considering they're always outraged about something, I prefer to think karma is turning those salty buggers into actual salt.

[pengbuzz]

32 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Considering they're always outraged about something, I prefer to think karma is turning those salty buggers into actual salt.

Can't imagine their blood pressure...

[RedWolf]

I do wonder if you are a government that want the most bang for your buck who would you hire? SMS or Xaos? Given what we know of both PMCs.

[aurance]

That would depend on the job, and perhaps more importantly what their pay rate is.

[Master Dex]

I'm pretty confident if you want PMC duties solely, SMS is the best and far better by a wide margin. They are highly successful but that also means they might be more expensive.

Xaos is as a PMC... Well... Third rate. But they might be cheaper! There is also the fact if you need a media component to your job they might know more about that. SMS is more straightforward.

I think market location matters too, I'm not sure they operate in the same galactic sectors. Certainly SMS isn't seen in Brisingr, and Xaos is said to have branches too but we haven't seen where.

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Can't imagine their blood pressure...

It's anime... even the chillest of health nuts has eighty gallons of blood at 500psi.

 

6 hours ago, RedWolf said:

I do wonder if you are a government that want the most bang for your buck who would you hire? SMS or Xaos? Given what we know of both PMCs.

Eh... a comparison between the two is so hopelessly one-sided that it reads like a "Virgin and Chad" meme.

Xaos PMC Division

• Founded by Space Comcast.  Works mainly in the space boonies.  (Or maybe Space Doordash, given how many jokes they make about delivering pizza.)
• Main duty is protecting an idol group.  Constantly puts them in danger.
• Parent company is a source of so much corruption that a paramilitary force is formed to hunt them down.
• War criminals on the payroll.  Multiple arrests and convictions for being unlawful combatants in a declared war.
• Recruits are local New UN Forces washouts, and a forklift driver.
• Massive core competency issues.  One "elite" pilot narrowly avoids causing a major accident and failing training.  "Super hacker" and alleged top-tier mechanic can't manage a single electronic door lock in an undercover operation.
• Labor law nightmare scenario... one employee is kept as a literal slave (illegal clone soldier) and another was coerced into accepting employment there to avoid prosecution for criminal activity.
• Can't perform without an ultra ace custom version of the latest next-generation Variable Fighter.
• Scornful of the NUNS and doesn't cooperate with the local New UN Forces until it's absolutely necessary and way too goddamn late.
• Constantly playing into the enemy's hands.
• Repeatedly gets rolled by the Aerial Knights, who have never taken part in actual combat before... losing the entire war and causing the collapse of the Brisingr Alliance.  Gets rolled again by Heimdall thereafter after Windermere takes its ball and goes home.
• Regional commander is notorious for his ineptitude.
• Organizationally broke and almost literally begging for money after being defeated.
• Joke-tier security, their entire system is compromised top-to-bottom by Epsilon Foundation hardware and backdoors despite a "super hacker" on payroll. 
• Totally upstaged in their own movie by an ace pilot guest character.
• Top ace is a simp for, and creepy stalker of, Walkure's least useful member and an incredibly toxic coworker to boot.
• Dead team member is mercy-killed by the enemy (or dies needlessly) after violating orders while hardcore simping for the least useful Walkure member... gets her and the rest of the group captured anyway.

 

Strategic Military Services

• Founded by one of the biggest interstellar shipping concerns to guard their cargo.  Hired by the wealthiest emigrant governments to supplement their local New UN Forces.
• Main duty is evaluating the NUNS's next-gen main fighter in live combat.
• Parent company is a major intestellar shipping firm whose sinister ulterior motive is... finding Minmay and the Megaroad-01?
• Highly principled staff rejects unethical orders an investigates a suspicious transfer of power in their client government, uncovering and foiling a coup d'etat.
• Recruits are elite troops poached from the NUNS, top students from an elite vocational school that normally trains pilots for the NUNS and commercial service.
• New inductees so good they have to set the simulator difficulty up way above normal to prevent them from clearing it too easily and getting arrogant.
• No known labor issues.
• Uses totally unmodified production-intent versions of the next-generation Variable Fighter they were hired to test.
• Operates well in support of the local New UN Forces, despite being critical of them.
• Realizes they're being played when the enemy's plot kicks off, goes rogue to foil it.
• Repeatedly fought the Vajra to a standstill and achieved minor victories, then rescued the Vajra from the real threat once they uncovered it all on their own.
• Regional commander is a respected veteran.
• Organizationally sound, able to manage extended independent operations in the field.
• No known security issues.
• Ace pilot guest character has a small cameo without distracting from the action.
• Top ace is a certified badass who eats pineapple and doesn't afraid of anything.
• Dead team member dies valiantly protecting the woman he loves, buying her time to join the fight and save thousands of civilians.

 

Let's be honest... which one of these would you want to hire?  I'm pretty sure it's not Xaos.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[Master Dex]

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Top ace is a certified badass who eats pineapple and doesn't afraid of anything.

Your whole post was on point but I want to highlight this cause it made me laugh and yes I know the Halo reference and that makes me love it more.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Your whole post was on point but I want to highlight this cause it made me laugh and yes I know the Halo reference and that makes me love it more.

I wanted to work in a line about the quirky teammate... but Xaos doesn't really have one unless you count the seacat who's constantly giving Hayate sh*t.

Bobby Margot is, of course, awesome not just for being an openly gay character who isn't portrayed as a joke or used purely for fanservice... but for being both a delicate feminine flower who's accepted by the girls and a veritable buffet of manliness at the same time.

[aurance]

Again, all of that is contingent on price and job. Also, putting aside the pretty obvious real world narrative intentions that ameliorate your admittedly comical comparison, Xaos simply cannot exist for long as a company if they continuously suck at everything in the way that you imply. Regardless of how you (we) feel about it Delta wasn’t written to be a farce, and Xaos is supposed to take the role of cool heroes in an action anime and presumably there’s stuff behind the scenes to justify that tone. Funny list though.

Edited December 27, 2021 by aurance

[Master Dex]

It's possible other branches of Xaos aren't as bad at this stuff, but the Ragna branch has to eat that I think. They may be the heroes but the writers can't be expecting us to not notice this. Even when they villify NUNS to make Xaos look good they do it where NUNS is still in the right and the MCs just disagree cause they don't like it. You ask me the writers are intending this on some level because Frontier proves they can do this without these implications.

There is also the fact that Lady M seems to be a big wig and is likely only not under legal prosecution because of influence.