Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[kajnrig]

So from a few pages ago, this got me curious:

On 6/22/2020 at 1:21 AM, pengbuzz said:

I can imagine Myung probably divorced his sorry rear-end when he had to explain where their life savings went.

Did Isamu and Myung canonically marry or at least get together post-M+? Because my honest assessment of M+ was that... well, besides it kind of being irrelevant, they didn't.

[deathzealot]

Agreed. Most likely they remained Very Close Friends with one another for Isamu isn't the type to settle down. Though I would not be surprised if they make a try of a relationship but it backed fire soon afterwards.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

So from a few pages ago, this got me curious:

Did Isamu and Myung canonically marry or at least get together post-M+? Because my honest assessment of M+ was that... well, besides it kind of being irrelevant, they didn't.

Dunno... there's no mention of his activities between the end of Macross Plus  in 2040 and his involvement in the YF-24 Evolution program in 2057.

[aurance]

2 hours ago, kajnrig said:

So from a few pages ago, this got me curious:

Did Isamu and Myung canonically marry or at least get together post-M+? Because my honest assessment of M+ was that... well, besides it kind of being irrelevant, they didn't.

After M+ they were both accidentally dissolved in a vat of acid they had mistaken for a swimming pool, but their android duplicates did merge programs in a symbolic marriage. So... answer is maybe.

[Seto Kaiba]

36 minutes ago, aurance said:

After M+ they were both accidentally dissolved in a vat of acid they had mistaken for a swimming pool, but their android duplicates did merge programs in a symbolic marriage. So... answer is maybe.

They probably had a falling out after Myung complained about him bringing his YF-19 dakimakura to bed.

[pengbuzz]

I think by the time of M+, Myung and Isamu were no longer the people they had been all those years ago when the incident with Guld happened. She had her world, Isamu had his, and they probably remained friends but chose to go their separate ways. Not to mention the pain of losing Guld would have made things just hurt too much for them.  I make this comment in light of my previous suggestion that "she probably divorced his sorry ass", with the realization that there was now probably too much that happened between them, and they were different now in their experiences.

Eden will always be "that place where the contest happened" for Isamu, while it would have its' own bad memories for Myung. Earth would probably remind them both of Guld's death, so my opinion is that Myung would either go back to music and either perform herself, or manage another singer and 'take her/him under her wing". Isamu being a space trucker...well, the fleets would probably need shipments as would the colonies.

 

JMO, for what it's worth...

[Sildani]

That’s probably the truth of it... it was shown time and time again in Plus that flying was really all Isamu wanted. 

[myk]

On 7/14/2020 at 10:10 AM, kajnrig said:

So from a few pages ago, this got me curious:

Did Isamu and Myung canonically marry or at least get together post-M+? Because my honest assessment of M+ was that... well, besides it kind of being irrelevant, they didn't.

I hope not, Lucy was way more fun and seemed to have had a lot less baggage.  I would've hoped that they stayed together but Isamu is a dog...

Edited July 21, 2020 by myk

[TehPW]

Ran across this on my thread today. Ridiculously epic modeling work. I assume this is the model kit, highly modded into this configuration?

[Bolt]

Very nice! Thanks for sharing man. 

[peter]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:10 AM, TehPW said:

Ran across this on my thread today. Ridiculously epic modeling work. I assume this is the model kit, highly modded into this configuration?

I like that, is that kit readily available?

[Bolt]

Ya. I believe it's a custom. 

Here's a question. How much information is there on these Zentradi ships. I mean is it all in the Macross Chrinicles , certainly not in any VFMF material. 

On board Armaments would be interesting..

I supposed Aaron has that info on his site..

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Bolt said:

Ya. I believe it's a custom. 

Here's a question. How much information is there on these Zentradi ships. I mean is it all in the Macross Chrinicles , certainly not in any VFMF material. 

On board Armaments would be interesting..

I supposed Aaron has that info on his site..

Alas, information on that is few and far between...

I have been poking through the Zentrādi ships dojinshi.  One of these days I'll get around to pasting it into HTML and adding it to my translations site.  Until then, bits and pieces of it can be found in the following RPG stats:

Note: brown is from the dojinshi

• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/StandardBattleship.php
• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/MediumGunboat.php
• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/ZentPicket.php

 

Note:  blue with note or asterix (*) is from the dojinshi¹

• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/LandingShip.php

 

¹ In old layout formatting.  I'm in the (glacial speed) process of revising both the content and the layout on both my Stats and Translations sites.  Refer to updates (on both sites) for more info on where I'm currently revising.

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Bolt said:

Here's a question. How much information is there on these Zentradi ships. I mean is it all in the Macross Chrinicles , certainly not in any VFMF material. 

On board Armaments would be interesting..

It's pretty slim... we know what the basic systems are and the basic types of weaponry they use, but not specific numbers or anything like that.

[sketchley]

I'd like to add that I've recently put the Suvāru Saran [Thuverl Salan] Class Standard Battleship through its paces in a play test, and the number of some of the anti-Mobile Weapon armaments *seems* to be far too low for a ship of that size.

One could also debate that the Dojinshi is wrong for including anti-Mobile Weapon armaments (AA guns, AA missiles) at all, because things like the Rigādo Battle Pods serve as mobile AA "turrets" (just like the Destroids and Battroids do on the Earthling ships).

Edited August 3, 2020 by sketchley

[Bolt]

That's very interesting. I would like to eventually incorporate them into the rpg. I don't use robowreck rpg as a bible reference, even though i have most of the Palladium books. 

Thanks for the heads up guys

[sketchley]

20 minutes ago, Bolt said:

That's very interesting. I would like to eventually incorporate them into the rpg. I don't use robowreck rpg as a bible reference, even though i have most of the Palladium books. 

Thanks for the heads up guys

No one says you have to use the Palladium Books' game engine to enjoy my site. 

That said, on the stats that I've revised or created from scratch, I've endeavoured to make such things as damage and MDC consistent with each other¹ (and aligned with what is seen in the anime as much as possible/reasonable).  So, it should be very easy to convert those stats into whatever game system you prefer once you know the conversion rules.

Therefore, please view my stats site as a resource² and starting point for whichever game system you use.

 

¹ https://forum.macrossrpg.org/index.php?topic=1953.msg27195#msg27195

² all of the coloured text comes from a translated source, with green being the Official Setting (aka canon; E.g. Macross Chronicle), blue being "extended universe" (E.g. the VFMF books, which are self-described as not being part of the Official Setting), and brown coming from dojinshi published in Japan.  In some respects, the stats site is a distillation of the facts and details in my translations site.

[Bolt]

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

That's very interesting. I would like to eventually incorporate them into the rpg. I don't use robowreck rpg as a bible reference, even though i have most of the Palladium books. 

In an unusual turn for the publisher, Palladium Books's "2nd Edition" Robotech RPG isn't atrociously inaccurate... in no small part because a lot of its information was shamelessly cribbed from Macross fan sites.  So much so, in fact, that they accidentally copied things that are unique to Macross's sequels and not at all present in Robotech like the UUM-7 micro-missile pod used by the VF-1 Valkyrie.

All in all, it's not a bad starting point for a homebrew Macross game.  I'd argue the Macross II RPG is slightly better, despite its much greater number of content errors, because it lacks a few system-level screwups like the erroneous division of micro-missiles into "short-range missiles" and "mini-missiles" and depriving approximately half of them of guidance.  (Nobody seems to have the heart to tell Kevin that an unguided missile is called a rocket.)

That said, their stats for Zentradi ships tend towards the absurd because the writers of the RPGs seem to have no concept of the size of these ships relative to their crews.  They end up being given ridiculously massive crew sizes and mecha complements because the writers forget the individual crew members are 125x the size of a human being, making the ships 1/5 the relative size in every dimension if you're looking at them in human terms.  Relative to its crew, the largest regular Zentradi ship is only about 2/3 the size of the Macross relative to her miclone crew.

 

4 hours ago, sketchley said:

One could also debate that the Dojinshi is wrong for including anti-Mobile Weapon armaments (AA guns, AA missiles) at all, because things like the Rigādo Battle Pods serve as mobile AA "turrets" (just like the Destroids and Battroids do on the Earthling ships).

Esp. in light of the fact that the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series pretty clearly depicts Zentradi ships shooting at incoming fighters with the same guided beam cannon turrets they use for anti-warship work.

[sketchley]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Esp. in light of the fact that the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series pretty clearly depicts Zentradi ships shooting at incoming fighters with the same guided beam cannon turrets they use for anti-warship work.

OK... I definitely have to revise the built-in ship weapons in those stats (I'm satisfied with the crew number and shipboard vehicle numbers).

I was going to err toward the Palladium description, but you've also thrown some doubt on those quantities, too.

[Falcon]

Speaking of the SDF-1, do we ever see it fire all its weapons? What do you think of its weapons load compared to rival ships of the period?

[Seto Kaiba]

40 minutes ago, Falcon said:

Speaking of the SDF-1, do we ever see it fire all its weapons?

Nope, she never does use those railguns... and we only ever see her fire her guided beam cannon turrets in Ep27.

 

40 minutes ago, Falcon said:

What do you think of its weapons load compared to rival ships of the period?

The Macross is extremely heavily armed compared to other UN Forces warships of the period... but its armament isn't particularly impressive compared to the larger Zentradi warships unless you count it having thermonuclear reaction munitions and various add-ons like a barrier system that the Zentradi didn't.

[deathzealot]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In an unusual turn for the publisher, Palladium Books's "2nd Edition" Robotech RPG isn't atrociously inaccurate... in no small part because a lot of its information was shamelessly cribbed from Macross fan sites.  So much so, in fact, that they accidentally copied things that are unique to Macross's sequels and not at all present in Robotech like the UUM-7 micro-missile pod used by the VF-1 Valkyrie.

Not to mention they used some of the pre-production sketches for both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada for some new units for Robotech. That is if I remember correctly.

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That said, their stats for Zentradi ships tend towards the absurd because the writers of the RPGs seem to have no concept of the size of these ships relative to their crews.  They end up being given ridiculously massive crew sizes and mecha complements because the writers forget the individual crew members are 125x the size of a human being, making the ships 1/5 the relative size in every dimension if you're looking at them in human terms.  Relative to its crew, the largest regular Zentradi ship is only about 2/3 the size of the Macross relative to her miclone crew.

The most amusing of those stats is for the Zentradi Picket Ship which claims it sports a crew higher then a hull like that can carry. Now if that ship was being crewed by regular sized humans then that would be a different story.

27 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Macross is extremely heavily armed compared to other UN Forces warships of the period... but its armament isn't particularly impressive compared to the larger Zentradi warships unless you count it having thermonuclear reaction munitions and various add-ons like a barrier system that the Zentradi didn't.

Do not forget the big gun! Since only the Zentradi Monitors had them, officially anyways.

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, deathzealot said:

Not to mention they used some of the pre-production sketches for both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada for some new units for Robotech. That is if I remember correctly.

Oh, yes... after they exhausted what little official setting material exists for Robotech, HG gave them permission to use the so-called "Imai Files" for what turned out to be the game's last book (of blatant filler) before the publisher's license was revoked.  It was an embarrassing desperation move and a hilariously poor-quality product even by the publisher's already-low standards.

 

Quote

The most amusing of those stats is for the Zentradi Picket Ship which claims it sports a crew higher then a hull like that can carry. Now if that ship was being crewed by regular sized humans then that would be a different story.

Yup... if you get right down to it, in scale to its crew, the Zentradi fleet picket is about the same size as a typical US Coast Guard patrol cutter.  Those have a crew of 126, and didn't have to support aircraft.  The picket's got a big damn hangar at the back that's going to cut into the available space rather heavily.

They scaled it back somewhat in RT2E, but at no point have they gone to the actual numbers in the OSM and noticed that the average Zentradi ship should only have a crew of about 1,500 men.

 

Quote

Do not forget the big gun! Since only the Zentradi Monitors had them, officially anyways.

There are no Monitors in the Zentradi forces... the ship you're thinking of is a gunboat. (中型砲艦) 

The key distinction there is that a monitor is a ship designed for ship-to-ship combat that carries disproportionately large guns while a gunboat is a ship mounting a heavy gun that's made for surface bombardment.

[deathzealot]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, yes... after they exhausted what little official setting material exists for Robotech, HG gave them permission to use the so-called "Imai Files" for what turned out to be the game's last book (of blatant filler) before the publisher's license was revoked.  It was an embarrassing desperation move and a hilariously poor-quality product even by the publisher's already-low standards.

 

Huh. Did not know that. I remeber something about the Super Cyclone being something developed for the Mospeada series but never was shown, along with some of the new Invid mecha introduced in one of the more recent RP Books being similiar. 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yup... if you get right down to it, in scale to its crew, the Zentradi fleet picket is about the same size as a typical US Coast Guard patrol cutter.  Those have a crew of 126, and didn't have to support aircraft.  The picket's got a big damn hangar at the back that's going to cut into the available space rather heavily.

They scaled it back somewhat in RT2E, but at no point have they gone to the actual numbers in the OSM and noticed that the average Zentradi ship should only have a crew of about 1,500 men.

Blink. I was guessing somewhere around 50 to 100 crew for the Picket, but that does make sense. I also recently started to believe that the Picket only had a small mecha complement and only of fighter pods. That said. That was only my head canon. 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There are no Monitors in the Zentradi forces... the ship you're thinking of is a gunboat. (中型砲艦) 

The key distinction there is that a monitor is a ship designed for ship-to-ship combat that carries disproportionately large guns while a gunboat is a ship mounting a heavy gun that's made for surface bombardment.

Opps. I do not know where I got Monitor then. Could have sworn it was called that. 

Anyways thanks for the reply Seto. 

[Seto Kaiba]

13 minutes ago, deathzealot said:

Huh. Did not know that. I remeber something about the Super Cyclone being something developed for the Mospeada series but never was shown, along with some of the new Invid mecha introduced in one of the more recent RP Books being similiar. 

Nope, there were a bunch of rejected Ride Armor concepts that were used in the "UEEF Marines" sourcebook... but IIRC the so-called "Super Cyclone" you're thinking of was something they came up with for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles (and all it really is is a regular VR-052 MOSPEADA painted black - because black is edgy, right? - with a bigger gun).

 

Quote

Blink. I was guessing somewhere around 50 to 100 crew for the Picket, but that does make sense. I also recently started to believe that the Picket only had a small mecha complement and only of fighter pods. That said. That was only my head canon. 

Oh, the 126 person figure is for the coast guard cutter in question... I used the Heritage-class as an example, since it's approximately to scale with a Zentradi fleet picket in terms of the relative sizes of crew and ship.  Though, as noted, the picket would have less space for actual crew since it has to accommodate a hangar as well.  So in all likelihood, your headcanon's fairly close to the truth.

 

Quote

Opps. I do not know where I got Monitor then. Could have sworn it was called that. 

It's been called a lot of things... for the longest time people were calling it by the name Quiltra Quelamitz and asserting it's a monitor.  The ship is a gunboat, and doesn't have a class name.  Fanon's weird sometimes.

 

Though I did recently notice something that'd been bugging me and sketchley.  The term "GNERL" that never seems to be used in print sources but is always used to refer to the Zentradi dogfighter pod... that's from a line in Super Dimension Fortress Macross's very first episode (about 19 minutes in).

Edited August 4, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[deathzealot]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nope, there were a bunch of rejected Ride Armor concepts that were used in the "UEEF Marines" sourcebook... but IIRC the so-called "Super Cyclone" you're thinking of was something they came up with for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles (and all it really is is a regular VR-052 MOSPEADA painted black - because black is edgy, right? - with a bigger gun).

Sorry. I screwed up there. I meant the original Super Cyclone the Devestator which for a long time was pretty much fanon was based on some concept lineart for the original series. Also I did not know those new Cyclones for the UEEF Marines book were actually concepts for Ride Armor. That does make some sort of sense. 

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, the 126 person figure is for the coast guard cutter in question... I used the Heritage-class as an example, since it's approximately to scale with a Zentradi fleet picket in terms of the relative sizes of crew and ship.  Though, as noted, the picket would have less space for actual crew since it has to accommodate a hangar as well.  So in all likelihood, your headcanon's fairly close to the truth.

 

Heh. I could see those ships being cramped for Zentradi similar to World War II submarines for humans just with a hangar. It would be quite amusing to see the reactions of their older Zentradi crews when the ships are refitted for human crews. I believe the old Legend of Megaroad fanfiction  says it best: "Love the extra leg room". 

8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's been called a lot of things... for the longest time people were calling it by the name Quiltra Quelamitz and asserting it's a monitor.  The ship is a gunboat, and doesn't have a class name.  Fanon's weird sometimes.

Huh. You know I think it was mostly because the SDF-1 is orginally a Supervision Army Gun Destroyer and having that ship called a Zentradi Gunship would too close to that designation. Shrug. Just a guess. Also I agree. I still remember some Gundam fanon stuff. 

12 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Though I did recently notice something that'd been bugging me and sketchley.  The term "GNERL" that we couldn't source is actually from the show's very first episode.

What? Where was that at? 

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, deathzealot said:

... I also recently started to believe that the Picket only had a small mecha complement and only of fighter pods. That said. That was only my head canon. 

 ...

Your head canon is correct.  I believe it comes from one of the Mechanic pages in Macross Chronicle.
I know this, because of the aforementioned Dojinshi that claims that the Picket Ship doesn't carry any Jināru Fighter Pods—and I swear I heard Austin Powers's voice saying, "that's not right..."! 

Nevertheless, it's safe to assume that the Picket Ship also carries a contingent of Rigādo Battle Pods.  As the Dojinshi claims: they also double as escape pods!
 

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, deathzealot said:

What? Where was that at? 

I don't know where the term Gnerl comes from, but just like many other Zentrādi names written in English, the reading is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than the spoken dialogue.  E.g. Rigādo becomes Regult, Gurāji is Glaug, and Jināru for Gnerl!

Incidentally, I got that spelling off the Japanese Wikipedia article.  While I have faith that native Japanese speakers can accurately write down their language, that's as far as the veracity goes (unless if someone can find the shooting script...?)

For more info, refer to its entry in my Glossary/Disambiguation page: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Glossary.php#J

[deathzealot]

2 hours ago, sketchley said:

Nevertheless, it's safe to assume that the Picket Ship also carries a contingent of Rigādo Battle Pods.  As the Dojinshi claims: they also double as escape pods!

Raised Eyebrow. Escape Pods on Zentradi ships...

[Seto Kaiba]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:29 AM, deathzealot said:

Raised Eyebrow. Escape Pods on Zentradi ships...

Let's be honest, abandoning a disabled ship for a death or glory charge is the most Zentradi thing ever...

 

 

Unrelated... does anyone out there have the Super Dimension Fortress Macross novelization by Inoue Toshiki from 1983?  Specifically, I'm looking for the second volume (ISBN 978-4-09-440003-8).  I've been told that it contains some interesting information on the subject of the VF-1J in the postscript.  Specifically, what I've heard - and cannot presently verify - is that in that 1983-vintage bit of lore it talks about the VF-1J was tentatively intended to replace the VF-1A.

Since I'm working on the Sky Angels doujinshi, I've been on a bit of a VF-1 kick lately.  There was an interesting bit in Master File that caught my attention in connection with the above, about how the reason Hikaru was issued with a VF-1J from the outset instead of a VF-1A in the TV version was Roy "gifting" Hikaru with a spare aircraft that'd been prepared for his use when his VF-1S was having issues.

[twich]

I like the idea that Roy would do that for Hikaru. I also think that the VF-1J replacing the A is a smart move. The only difference being the head. Now where did the notion come from that the progression of head lasers also implied increased armor? Or am I mixing up Macross/Robotech again?

[Bolt]

The original concept may have been (or may not) for the VF-1J to replace the VF-1A. Nevertheless it makes sense SPACY would field different variants. They may have decided the VF-1J was a good squadron leader type and kept the 1S as the Platoon leader type. While keeping the good ole A as the infantry type. Purely guessing here.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There was an interesting bit in Master File that caught my attention in connection with the above, about how the reason Hikaru was issued with a VF-1J from the outset instead of a VF-1A in the TV version was Roy "gifting" Hikaru with a spare aircraft that'd been prepared for his use when his VF-1S was having issues.

Interesting. If so, Roy certainly had a lot pull. Perhaps makes sense considering his status as a veteran Valkyrie pilot. 

[Mommar]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Unrelated... does anyone out there have the Super Dimension Fortress Macross novelization by Inoue Toshiki from 1983?  Specifically, I'm looking for the second volume (ISBN 978-4-09-440003-8).  I've been told that it contains some interesting information on the subject of the VF-1J in the postscript.  Specifically, what I've heard - and cannot presently verify - is that in that 1983-vintage bit of lore it talks about the VF-1J was tentatively intended to replace the VF-1A.

I recall this bit of information from before but I can't place where I saw it.

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, twich said:

I like the idea that Roy would do that for Hikaru. I also think that the VF-1J replacing the A is a smart move. The only difference being the head. Now where did the notion come from that the progression of head lasers also implied increased armor? Or am I mixing up Macross/Robotech again?

I think it's a little bit of both.  I think (don't quote me) the Palladium Robotech RPG gave an armour increase.

However, years later, Kawamori-san introduced Energy Conversion Armour in Macross Zero and retconned that into SDFM, etc.  If memory serves, the VF-1S had "better" engines with slightly higher output, so it's in the realm of plausibility that the VF-1S had "better" armour in Battroid (the only mode in the VF-1 that the Energy Conversion Armour is active).

Edited August 7, 2020 by sketchley