Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[AN/ALQ128]

5 hours ago, aurance said:

I hope in the next series, they’ll switch to a new lineage of fighters. I love the entire YF-24 derivative line but it might be time for something new as the hero fighter.

If there's anything Kawamori is good at, its coming up with cool VF designs

[Seto Kaiba]

If I had my way, I'd like to see them go backwards a bit and give us a story where the main VF is from one of the neglected generations... like the largely skipped 2nd Generation, the 3rd that was mostly only around as cannon fodder in Plus and 7, or the 4th when the VF-171 was actually new.

[Bolt]

Didn't the YF-24 bring us or inspire the YF-25, VF-25,VF-27, YF-29,and related to the YF-30,and VF-31..?  I'd say there's  a pretty diverse group of YF/VF's.  

Edited May 23, 2020 by Bolt

[deathzealot]

17 hours ago, aurance said:

I hope in the next series, they’ll switch to a new lineage of fighters. I love the entire YF-24 derivative line but it might be time for something new as the hero fighter.

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If I had my way, I'd like to see them go backwards a bit and give us a story where the main VF is from one of the neglected generations... like the largely skipped 2nd Generation, the 3rd that was mostly only around as cannon fodder in Plus and 7, or the 4th when the VF-171 was actually new.

I would like to see them doing something with civilian-owned Valkyries similar to say Macross The Ride or Kawamori's original pitch for Macross Delta were we can see modified and modernized versions of older fighters in more civilian roles. Like the Vanquish Races or flight demonstrations. 

[kajnrig]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Didn't the YF-24 bring us or inspire the YF-25, VF-25,VF-27, YF-29,and related to the YF-30,and VF-31..?  I'd say there's  a pretty diverse group of YF/VF's.  

You can tell they're all related, though. They all transform very similarly. Their "trunk" sections are basically the same. Part of the reason why the Draken III was such a big draw to me was because of how different it was from the YF-24 derivatives in terms of its overall shape and how that affected its transformation.

53 minutes ago, deathzealot said:

I would like to see them doing something with civilian-owned Valkyries similar to say Macross The Ride or Kawamori's original pitch for Macross Delta were we can see modified and modernized versions of older fighters in more civilian roles. Like the Vanquish Races or flight demonstrations. 

IIRC, the original pitch for Delta was two competing civilian flight demonstration/idol groups, which I would have vastly preferred to what we got. The VF-31 and SV-262 could even still feature as the two sides in a neighboring war that the main story gets dragged into or something. But have the demo teams flying non-VFs or civilian VF-1s/-4s or even VF-9s, that definitely looks the most "trainer"-y of the various VF designs.

Bah. Anyway.

[deathzealot]

4 hours ago, kajnrig said:

IIRC, the original pitch for Delta was two competing civilian flight demonstration/idol groups, which I would have vastly preferred to what we got. The VF-31 and SV-262 could even still feature as the two sides in a neighboring war that the main story gets dragged into or something. But have the demo teams flying non-VFs or civilian VF-1s/-4s or even VF-9s, that definitely looks the most "trainer"-y of the various VF designs.

Bah. Anyway.

Yup. I would love to see a version of that done in the future. Or maybe something about the Jenius Air Circus which would by this time be under the control of another Jenius daughter instead of Max or Milia.

Another couple ideas I would like to see are either a story focusing on the elusive VF-24 and the Federal NUNS Forces, or go down a slightly different civilian path in something similar to Hayate's job at the beginning of Delta but done with a VF which extends to protection of the transport from pirates or terrorists. Shrug.

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, Bolt said:

Didn't the YF-24 bring us or inspire the YF-25, VF-25,VF-27, YF-29,and related to the YF-30,and VF-31..?  I'd say there's  a pretty diverse group of YF/VF's.  

Yeah, the YF-24 is the common ancestor of all 5th Generation VFs so far... and likely will remain a common ancestor to all of them, since the technology that defines the 5th Generation was developed on and for it.

The gimmick the last two shows have done where the shiny new VF is only available to a non-military group of elite mooks who are picked to test it because they're legally expendable is overdone.  The whole PMC schtick is overdone too, though at least Xaos was closer to the reality of PMCs than SMS was... what with Xaos being mostly made up of people who couldn't hack it in the military's ranks.  All they were really missing, since Lady M constitutes corrupt corporate management, was having the ranks packed with the kind of pasty, out-of-shape, military-cosplaying militia nut the real military didn't want, convinced they're living out the plot of their very own Call of Duty game.

I'd like to see a return to something closer to the original series, where the protagonists were the actual military and there wasn't a unit of elites doing all the heavy lifting with VFs a generation newer than everyone else's.

Or, hell, let's go towards the realistic and have the PMC be the bad guys... or maybe an underequipped PMC can save the day, like in Terrestrial Defense Enterprise Dai-Guard.

(In the last Macross RPG campaign I ran, the villain was a megacorp with its own PMC, the Canaries.... and the Canaries are, yes, based on the ones from Red Dwarf in every respect.)

Edited May 24, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[kajnrig]

Been meaning to ask this for a while. @slide shared a bit ago this pic comparing the VF-4A and G (from IIRC Master File).

Is this accurate, or just something they made up in lieu of any "canon"? Is this a Hornet/Super Hornet, Fighting Falcon/Viper Zero (USAF F-16/JASDF F-2) situation?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Been meaning to ask this for a while. @slide shared a bit ago this pic comparing the VF-4A and G (from IIRC Master File).

Is this accurate, or just something they made up in lieu of any "canon"? Is this a Hornet/Super Hornet, Fighting Falcon/Viper Zero (USAF F-16/JASDF F-2) situation?

That is something that Master File came up with, independent of the official setting.

[sketchley]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Been meaning to ask this for a while. @slide shared a bit ago this pic comparing the VF-4A and G (from IIRC Master File).

Is this accurate, or just something they made up in lieu of any "canon"? Is this a Hornet/Super Hornet, Fighting Falcon/Viper Zero (USAF F-16/JASDF F-2) situation?

 

I'd take whatever the Master File books say with a grain of salt.

Aside from the disclaimer at the back of the books that they aren't part of the Official Setting (or 'canon'), they also claim that the VF-4A–F can NOT transform.  There is nothing in the Official Setting that indicates that a) the VF-4A–F cannot transform, and b) the VF-4G is bigger than the previous models.

[pengbuzz]

On another note entirely, I found a pic (or so I thought) some time ago amongst the online series productionl sketches of the bridge internals for the SDF-1 (google searches for sdf-1 bridge sketches, black and white). From what I recall, it showed a pic of the bridge from the inside, showing the layers of the bridge tower, but from the back facing forward. The thing I recall was that in the sketch, there was a battle pod (or some other Zentraedi mech, not sure) attacking the bridge bubble, and it had cracked it with laser fire. It showed the crew in panic and shock, and Captain Gloval high-tailing it, running as fast as he could for the exit!

(needless to say, the sketch was apparently done as a joke I think!)

Has anyone else run across this or ever seen/ heard of it? Or...is dementia setting in on my part?

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by pengbuzz

[sketchley]

This is Animation The Select #11 Macross DYRL Pg 76.

It's a Super VF-1 "accidentally" bumping into the forward glass.

[deathzealot]

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Or, hell, let's go towards the realistic and have the PMC be the bad guys... or maybe an underequipped PMC can save the day, like in Terrestrial Defense Enterprise Dai-Guard.

Huh. That would quite interesting actually. Though maybe not anytime soon I think we have gotten enough of PMCs in Macross for a bit.

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

On another note entirely, I found a pic (or so I thought) some time ago amongst the online series productionl sketches of the bridge internals for the SDF-1 (google searches for sdf-1 bridge sketches, black and white). From what I recall, it showed a pic of the bridge from the inside, showing the layers of the bridge tower, but from the back facing forward. The thing I recall was that in the sketch, there was a battle pod (or some other Zentraedi mech, not sure) attacking the bridge bubble, and it had cracked it with laser fire. It showed the crew in panic and shock, and Captain Gloval high-tailing it, running as fast as he could for the exit!

(needless to say, the sketch was apparently done as a joke I think!)

Has anyone else run across this or ever seen/ heard of it? Or...is dementia setting in on my part?

 

6 hours ago, sketchley said:

This is Animation The Select #11 Macross DYRL Pg 76.

It's a Super VF-1 "accidentally" bumping into the forward glass.

I think I saw that somewhere but I don't remember where I did find it. I just remember Global booking it out of the bridge.

[Bolt]

On 5/22/2020 at 3:25 PM, aurance said:

I hope in the next series, they’ll switch to a new lineage of fighters. I love the entire YF-24 derivative line but it might be time for something new as the hero fighter.

You did see this right?

[aurance]

I did, yes.

[pengbuzz]

13 hours ago, sketchley said:

This is Animation The Select #11 Macross DYRL Pg 76.

It's a Super VF-1 "accidentally" bumping into the forward glass.

Thanks sketchley! I couldn't remember what the mech was or what it did, but that sounds about right!!

Edit: found it!

Edited May 24, 2020 by pengbuzz

[Beltane70]

The running Global is my favorite part of this drawing!

[aurance]

Did any colony fleets use the transmitted detuned YF-24 as is? Why incur all the extra development costs to re-engineer it to production fighters (25, 31) that don’t match up to the federal YF-24 specs anyway?

[Seto Kaiba]

30 minutes ago, aurance said:

Did any colony fleets use the transmitted detuned YF-24 as is? Why incur all the extra development costs to re-engineer it to production fighters (25, 31) that don’t match up to the federal YF-24 specs anyway?

It's possible some did... but if there were any, we haven't been told about it.

As to "why incur the extra development costs", in part it's to get yourself something better than a half-complete YF-24 and partly to have something you can sell in export to turn your own profit on it... as the Macross Frontier fleet is alleged to have done in various sources like Master File (and implied to have actually taken place via Macross 30 showing a VF-25 from Sephira) and the Brisingr Alliance was explicitly planning to do in Macross Delta with the VF-31A Kairos.

[deathzealot]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross 30 showing a VF-25 from Sephira

Wasn't that a YF-25 Prophecy? 

[dna]

On 5/24/2020 at 11:47 AM, Bolt said:

You did see this right?

Nope.  What is this?

[deathzealot]

Just now, dna said:

Nope.  What is this?

That is the new fighter for the Second Macross Delta Movie I do believe.

[dna]

Was Delta actually received well enough to make 2 followup movies? Because this surprises me.

[deathzealot]

Just now, dna said:

Was Delta actually received well enough to make 2 followup movies? Because this surprises me.

Errr... I am not the best person to answer this, but since we already got the first movie which has been out for a couple years and another supposed to be releasing sometime this year or next then I think that it is a given.

[Master Dex]

25 minutes ago, dna said:

Was Delta actually received well enough to make 2 followup movies? Because this surprises me.

If you only ever talked to western audience members like on this forum who aren't big on Delta you might not know that the Japanese audience, which the show is made for, absolutely loves it. They also love the real Walkure idol group, and both make great money over there. So yeah its got follow ups. 

The first movie is just the usual retelling of the shows plot with with a lot of trim (and even more Walkure). The second movie, still to release, is a brand new story set after the show. We don't know many details however. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Master Dex

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, deathzealot said:

Wasn't that a YF-25 Prophecy? 

Well, yes... though in practical terms there isn't actually much difference between the YF-25 and VF-25 outside of its monitor turret and tandem cockpit.  It might as well be a VF-25B with a different head.  

Mind you, the whole reason Reon Sakaki was ferrying that YF-25 from Sephira to Uroboros was so that the SMS office on Uroboros could part it out and use some of its more useful bits (like its Ariel II airframe control AI) in the YF-30.  Presumably Sephira was not willing to part with a production aircraft on the altar of Major Blanchette's ambition.

 

1 hour ago, dna said:

Was Delta actually received well enough to make 2 followup movies? Because this surprises me.

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

If you only ever talked to western audience members like on this forum who aren't big on Delta you might not know that the Japanese audience, which the show is made for, absolutely loves it. They also love the real Walkure idol group, and both make great money over there. So yeah its got follow ups. 

The idol group Walkure was extremely well-received in Japan and still enjoys considerable popularity there today.

I'm not sure I'd be willing to argue that the Macross Delta series itself was particularly popular or well-received outside of its role of promoting Walkure's albums and live concerts.  The show's merchandising is pretty limited outside the realm of Walkure character goods.  There's the obligatory novelization, manga adaptation, PSP game, and DX Chogokin toys, and then there's two brief gaiden manga titles, a technical manual that's mostly copy-pasted from a previous Macross Frontier book, and some model kits in various scales.  There's very little in terms of character goods for Delta Flight or Darwent High School Host Club The Aerial Knights except for some Mirage stuff (a lot of which is her cosplaying a Walkure member) and even a fair number of the kits are Walkure versions of various mecha even though exactly none of the Walkure characters are pilots.  The kit for Roid's Sv-262Hs had to be advertised with Mikumo on the box instead of Roid, and come with a huge Mikumo sticker that covers a lot of the plane.  Roid's not the only one getting shorted either, Bogue and Keith are the only two members of the Aerial Knights to get kits and actually appear on the box art.  Theo, Xao, Hermann, and Qasim apparently don't count.

So yeah, I'd say Macross Delta was well-received and quite popular in Japan... but it's mostly because of Walkure.

(Not gonna lie, I love the setting, I've got all of Walkure's albums, and the VF-31 and Sv-262 are some of my favorite later Kawamori designs... but if you tried to make Macross Delta stand on the merits of its heavily-derivative and obviously phoned-in story and the horribly underdeveloped cast, I wouldn't rate it much higher than I did The Price of Smiles, Tatsunoko's ill-fated attempt to get back into mecha anime for its anniversary that didn't so much go down in flames as find the elevator in Hell's sub-basement was out of order.)

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

The first movie is just the usual retelling of the shows plot with with a lot of trim (and even more Walkure). The second movie, still to release, is a brand new story set after the show. We don't know many details however. 

We don't really know any details, do we?  I mean, we know the title is Absolute LIVE!!!!!! and that's about the end of it.

[Master Dex]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

We don't really know any details, do we?  I mean, we know the title is Absolute LIVE!!!!!! and that's about the end of it.

Right? And that just tells us a concert is involved... like we couldn't see that coming, lol.

[snakerbot]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Mind you, the whole reason Reon Sakaki was ferrying that YF-25 from Sephira to Uroboros was so that the SMS office on Uroboros could part it out and use some of its more useful bits (like its Ariel II airframe control AI) in the YF-30.  Presumably Sephira was not willing to part with a production aircraft on the altar of Major Blanchette's ambition.

Was Ariel II not transmitted from Earth along with the YF-24 specs? Or did Frontier make improvements when making the YF/VF-25 that would make it more suitable for the YF-30? And why do they need to part out an actual fighter instead of just transmitting the code or something?

[sketchley]

12 minutes ago, snakerbot said:

Was Ariel II not transmitted from Earth along with the YF-24 specs? Or did Frontier make improvements when making the YF/VF-25 that would make it more suitable for the YF-30? And why do they need to part out an actual fighter instead of just transmitting the code or something?

Part of the reason is story: they needed an excuse to get the hero there in a way that sets up the situation on Uroboros.  What better way than to ferry an old VF on its own (instead of transported in the belly of a ship that's part of an armada), and then immediately attacked upon arrival by a rival?

The other reason is—if memory serves—something to do with the "experience" that the control AI in the YF-25 has accrued over the years.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, snakerbot said:

Was Ariel II not transmitted from Earth along with the YF-24 specs? Or did Frontier make improvements when making the YF/VF-25 that would make it more suitable for the YF-30? And why do they need to part out an actual fighter instead of just transmitting the code or something?

Part of it is, as @sketchley said, a convenient contrivance of the plot. 

Having Reon Sakaki get shot down in orbit of Uroboros while on a mission to hand-deliver a YF-25 Prophecy from the SMS Sephira branch to the Uroboros branch was very convenient to the plot, since it set up a combat tutorial vs. Rod's YF-29B, introduced Reon's rival (Rod Baltemar), and being shot down put him in the position of having no choice but to take a position with the Uroboros SMS and participate in the plot after the Uroboros Aurora flares up and blocks all fold travel to and from the planet while he's in hospital recovering from the injuries he sustained in the crash after he was shot down.

There is also an element of secrecy to it.  Strategic Military Services and its parent company Bilra Transport chose Uroboros for its remoteness as a place to develop the YF-30 Chronos as clandestinely as possible.  It was an extension of Mr. Bilra's mania about finding a way to overcome fold faults.  Parting out an existing, unneeded aircraft would be one way to conceal having acquired the Ariel II "Brunhilde" airframe control AI system from the YF-25.  Otherwise, attempting to acquire a new one from the manufacturer would potentially draw unwanted scrutiny to the top secret project... one doesn't simply place an order for bleeding edge military avionics and expect it to go unscrutinized.

[snakerbot]

Cool, thanks guys.

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It was an extension of Mr. Bilra's mania about finding a way to overcome fold faults.

Oh, while we're at it... I was rewatching Frontier the other day, and I noticed Luca's comment in episode 12 about the super fold booster going through fold faults. Was any info given on how the super fold booster and Fold Dimension Resonance system compare in this regard? Was one more or less efficient than the other? Cheaper? Faster? I understand the FDR does plenty of other things, like increase engine thrust and energy output, but specifically for fold travel, does it offer anything the super fold booster doesn't?

[Master Dex]

7 minutes ago, snakerbot said:

Cool, thanks guys.

Oh, while we're at it... I was rewatching Frontier the other day, and I noticed Luca's comment in episode 12 about the super fold booster going through fold faults. Was any info given on how the super fold booster and Fold Dimension Resonance system compare in this regard? Was one more or less efficient than the other? Cheaper? Faster? I understand the FDR does plenty of other things, like increase engine thrust and energy output, but specifically for fold travel, does it offer anything the super fold booster doesn't?

To my knowledge, the Fold Dimensional Resonance system isn't used for superluminal travel, it's basically a better version of the Fold Wave system, and it can also break through fold faults. I suppose that means if used in concert with normal fold travel it could pop on through them... but considering the quality of fold quartz you'd need to use it.. might as well just slap on a super fold booster, which also needs that fold quartz to work, and just do it that way with any craft.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, snakerbot said:

Oh, while we're at it... I was rewatching Frontier the other day, and I noticed Luca's comment in episode 12 about the super fold booster going through fold faults. Was any info given on how the super fold booster and Fold Dimension Resonance system compare in this regard? Was one more or less efficient than the other? Cheaper? Faster? I understand the FDR does plenty of other things, like increase engine thrust and energy output, but specifically for fold travel, does it offer anything the super fold booster doesn't?

Nope... the Fold Dimensional Resonance system is only shown piercing a fold fault once, and that was a fold fault barrier produced by the Fold Evil.  It got stuck on its first try too, until Basara boosted it with song energy.  It's not clear how the Fold Dimensional Resonance system would have facilitated overcoming fold faults, unless perhaps it was intended to work in concert with a regular fold booster to help it operate like a super fold booster.

[David Hingtgen]

Is there anything showing exactly where all the cameras on the YF-21 are?  Just rewatched ep 1 of M+ again, and it's clear from some of the viewing-angles that Guld gets, that there are cameras in the tailfins, and maybe other places.  Definitely more than "just the ones around the nosecone".  

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Is there anything showing exactly where all the cameras on the YF-21 are?  Just rewatched ep 1 of M+ again, and it's clear from some of the viewing-angles that Guld gets, that there are cameras in the tailfins, and maybe other places.  Definitely more than "just the ones around the nosecone".  

The only other specifically-identified camera on the YF-1 I'm aware of is the one on the back of the head.