Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[LRS]

6 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Ya.. best to go back and watch Macross Zero and Macross Plus.  Great destroid and mecha fighting in Zero. M+ is just all around awesome.

 

I hear you mate. But we all loved Macross back in the day and that had the singing idol. Maybe you just put up with it. Now you can't avoid it.  

I'm an "old man" too but i love a lot of the music. What to do..? Oh ya, keep on deculturing 

agreed. I still have those series.....you know what? I actually never watched the last episode of zero. I should rectify that. It's been on my to-do list for a long time. 

I suppose the singing wasn't in your face like it is now. It wasn't like Minmei was piloting a vf-1. It was pretty background stuff 

Edited April 21, 2020 by LRS

[Seto Kaiba]

11 minutes ago, LRS said:

I was under the impression that the zendradi terrorists were micronized ones that refused to integrate into human society and thus weren't true Zentradi in the....big sense.

It varies.  Some groups are giants, some are miclones, some are a mixture.  

The New UN Government banned giant Zentradi from Earth's surface in late 2030 after a second major armed revolt by the Zentradi that culminated in the Second Defensive Battle of Macross City.  The Zentradi anti-government organization that was responsible for creating the Variable Glaug also had giant Zentradi in it, incl. the Variable Glaug's test pilot Moarmia Jifon (later adopted by the Jenius family as Moaramia Jifon Jenius).

They're not necessarily limited to one size or the other either.  As we saw in Macross Frontier, with ready access to micloning systems it's perfectly possible to change size in a matter of minutes based on circumstantial need.  A soldier could live as a miclone in miclone accommodations and change into a giant when needs dictated, or live as a giant and change into a miclone when needs dictated.  The titular Macross Frontier fleet was somewhat unusual in that it had provisions for giant Zentradi settlements as well as miclone living quarters, and to support that had the infrastructure to allow people to live as miclones or giants based on preference.  Some Zentradi troops like Pixie Platoon lived principally as miclones but became giants when combat was in the offing, while others like the NUNS 33rd Marines lived as giants most or all of the time.

 

11 minutes ago, LRS said:

At least wasn't that the case in macross plus? Weren't those sweet power suites actually piloted by micronized people?

Nope.  The "enemy battle suit" from Macross Plus is indicated to be original Zentradi forces issue... one of the many mecha designed for them by the ancient Protoculture over 500,000 years ago.  Its pilot is a 9-10m Zentradi clone soldier.

It's been speculated by fans that the unnamed enemy battle suit from Macross Plus is an economized version of the Quimeliquola Queadluun-Rau intended for use by the Zentradi rank and file as a substitute for the too-expensive Queadluun-Rau that was reserved for elite forces with purpose-built (female) pilots.

[Bolt]

51 minutes ago, LRS said:

agreed. I still have those series.....you know what? I actually never watched the last episode of zero. I should rectify that. It's been on my to-do list for a long time. 

Last episode of Zero has really great dog fighting. Must see and forget all about Ikenai Borderline and Walkure

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Must see and forget all about Ikenai Borderline and Walkure

There are two kinds of people in this world... people who understand that Ikenai Borderline is an amazing song, and people who are wrong.  

[Sanity is Optional]

I much preferred the music from Frontier and Plus.

[LRS]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It varies.  Some groups are giants, some are miclones, some are a mixture.  

The New UN Government banned giant Zentradi from Earth's surface in late 2030 after a second major armed revolt by the Zentradi that culminated in the Second Defensive Battle of Macross City.  The Zentradi anti-government organization that was responsible for creating the Variable Glaug also had giant Zentradi in it, incl. the Variable Glaug's test pilot Moarmia Jifon (later adopted by the Jenius family as Moaramia Jifon Jenius).

They're not necessarily limited to one size or the other either.  As we saw in Macross Frontier, with ready access to micloning systems it's perfectly possible to change size in a matter of minutes based on circumstantial need.  A soldier could live as a miclone in miclone accommodations and change into a giant when needs dictated, or live as a giant and change into a miclone when needs dictated.  The titular Macross Frontier fleet was somewhat unusual in that it had provisions for giant Zentradi settlements as well as miclone living quarters, and to support that had the infrastructure to allow people to live as miclones or giants based on preference.  Some Zentradi troops like Pixie Platoon lived principally as miclones but became giants when combat was in the offing, while others like the NUNS 33rd Marines lived as giants most or all of the time.

 

Nope.  The "enemy battle suit" from Macross Plus is indicated to be original Zentradi forces issue... one of the many mecha designed for them by the ancient Protoculture over 500,000 years ago.  Its pilot is a 9-10m Zentradi clone soldier.

It's been speculated by fans that the unnamed enemy battle suit from Macross Plus is an economized version of the Quimeliquola Queadluun-Rau intended for use by the Zentradi rank and file as a substitute for the too-expensive Queadluun-Rau that was reserved for elite forces with purpose-built (female) pilots.

Huh. Well I learned something today. Those suits looked sweet. Would have liked to see more of those. 

 

Oh! Almost forgot to ask. Are there model kits or toys of those suits?

Edited April 21, 2020 by LRS

[Bolt]

24 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There are two kinds of people in this world... people who understand that Ikenai Borderline is an amazing song, and people who are wrong.  

WORD..! 

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, LRS said:

Oh! Almost forgot to ask. Are there model kits or toys of those suits?

I wish! There may have been a wonderfest non scale rendition, but i can't recall (doubt it )..it would've been cast in low numbers and , at this point, more rare than fold quartz..

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, LRS said:

Huh. Well I learned something today.

A lot - and I mean A LOT - of fans assumed those were something knocked together by Zentradi terrorists inside New UN Gov't territory instead of being original Zentradi-issue gear.

[LRS]

9 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

A lot - and I mean A LOT - of fans assumed those were something knocked together by Zentradi terrorists inside New UN Gov't territory instead of being original Zentradi-issue gear.

I swear I read exactly that years ago. Macros mecha manual maybe? Although it doesn't say that now. 

[sketchley]

10 hours ago, Bolt said:

(...) Also, transforming planes has been fully integrated into the Macross world and has many apparent advantages. Why go back to a square wheel? The mobility and versatility of 3 modes is unrivaled.

 (...)

Indeed!  If memory serves, Kawamori himself said that the GERWALK form is akin to a "heavy attack helicopter".  So we get:

• Fighter mode: air superiority
• GERWALK mode: ground attack/support combat helicopter
• Battroid mode: ground infantry

Not to mention the in-universe treatment of Valkyries as something somewhere between used cars (occasionally souped up for racing) and old WWII aircraft sold off as surplus!

[sketchley]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nope.  The "enemy battle suit" from Macross Plus is indicated to be original Zentradi forces issue... one of the many mecha designed for them by the ancient Protoculture over 500,000 years ago.  Its pilot is a 9-10m Zentradi clone soldier.

It's been speculated by fans that the unnamed enemy battle suit from Macross Plus is an economized version of the Quimeliquola Queadluun-Rau intended for use by the Zentradi rank and file as a substitute for the too-expensive Queadluun-Rau that was reserved for elite forces with purpose-built (female) pilots.

Isn't that the  description for the Quadoran-Nona?

 

56 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

A lot - and I mean A LOT - of fans assumed those were something knocked together by Zentradi terrorists inside New UN Gov't territory instead of being original Zentradi-issue gear.

Didn't Macross Chronicle or something similar indicate that they were produced by the Lost Zentradi*?

* http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Glossary.php#L —the (in-universe?) name for the Zentradi survivors of the Bodoru Main Fleet who fled after the end of the decisive battle of the First Interstellar War, know of Earth, but never sided with Earth.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, sketchley said:

Didn't Macross Chronicle or something similar indicate that they were produced by the Lost Zentradi*?

Macross Chronicle declines to specify where the enemy battle suit was produced.  It just echoes remarks that previously appeared in the Macross Plus liner notes and This is Animation Special: Macross Plus book about this model of battle suit being used by the remnants of the Zentradi Boddole Zer main fleet.

Logically, the "Lost" Zentradi couldn't have developed and produced this mecha themselves.  They're the Zentradi who retreated after their command ships were sunk, so they've never had the opportunity to live on Earth and learn about how their technology actually worked or how to repair and maintain it from humans.  They have the Zentradi's "black box" view of technology, and therefore wouldn't be capable of developing or building a new model of battle suit themselves.  The only Zentradi who've been depicted developing original weapons are the ones who've lived among humans for a time and learned about the principles of their technology like the Macross II timeline Quamzin in Macross 2036 and Eternal Love Song, Algus Selzaa in the Macross Plus and Macross 7 backstory, or the Zentradi rebels who created the Variable Glaug, Feios Valkyrie, Queadluun-Alma, etc.

[Bolt]

18 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

I much preferred the music from Frontier and Plus.

I like Frontier too. And really like plus. It's more unique sounding than most Macross music , to me.

 

21 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Logically, the "Lost" Zentradi couldn't have developed and produced this mecha themselves.

Isn't it possible that while they ran off to lick their wounds, someone amongst the top ranks had an "aha" moment ?  I would've thought they had enough exposure, as traumatic as it may have been, to wonder how to defeat these miclones and even, in some way , slightly break conditioning out of the shear need to be victorious.

[sketchley]

46 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Logically, the "Lost" Zentradi couldn't have developed and produced this mecha themselves.  (...)

Macross Chronicle defines the Lost Zentradi as:

Quote

The nickname of the Zentraadi groups that didn't make peace with the Earthlings. They are specified as such groups as the surviving fleet of troops under Bodoruzaa's command, who scattered when the flagship was destroyed, and the Zentraadi groups that are scattered about the galaxy in great numbers. In 2045, there doesn't seem to have been an example of any of them accepting peace with mankind. However, the Kurore Fleet, which encountered the Macross 7 Fleet, were deeply impressed by Nekki Basara's songs, and are the first case of a group of Lost Zentraadi acquiring friendship with mankind.

http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRglossary/Glossary17a.php

 

So, while the term includes all Zentradi Fleets that have yet to encounter humankind, it also includes Zentradi like Kamujin, who left after attempting—and ultimately failing—to adjust to life on Earth.  And is it not logically possible that some of those Zentradi would have received training in how to make new things?  SDFM even depicts those Zentradi having learned how to make repairs to spaceships and constructing buildings and so on after only a few short months of having lived on Earth...

Not to mention the Lost Zentradi main fleet in MDM:VF-X that created such things as the Rigado Kai (aka Stealth Regult), and Pheyos Valkyrie.

Edited April 22, 2020 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

27 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Isn't it possible that while they ran off to lick their wounds, someone amongst the top ranks had an "aha" moment ?  I would've thought they had enough exposure, as traumatic as it may have been, to wonder how to defeat these miclones and even, in some way , slightly break conditioning out of the shear need to be victorious.

The Zentradi don't think like that, as far as we know... someone who started getting funny ideas after exposure to the miclones would probably be judged "contaminated" and killed like what was going to happen to Vrlitwhai, Quamzin, and Laplamiz's fleets.

 

 

8 minutes ago, sketchley said:

So, while the term includes all Zentradi Fleets that have yet to encounter humankind, it also includes Zentradi like Kamujin, who left after attempting—and ultimately failing—to adjust to life on Earth. 

Looking at that definition you translated, I don't see any reference to the Zentradi who lived on Earth.  The ones who lived on Earth were ones that made peace with Earthlings, even if it was only a temporary peace.  This definition only references the remnants of the Boddole Zer main fleet that retreated from the combat area after their command ships were sunk - and therefore were only exposed to the Minmay Attack - and the various Zentradi forces scattered around the galaxy that have not encountered humans or human culture yet.  It says there are no examples of them accepting peace with humanity yet (unless we count Chlore), which means this can't refer to the Zentradi who sided with humanity and then become terrorists because those groups didn't flee Earth with the scattering of the Boddole Zer fleet and DID briefly make peace with humanity.

 

8 minutes ago, sketchley said:

And is it not logically possible that some of those Zentradi would have received training in how to make new things?  SDFM even depicts those Zentradi having learned how to make repairs to spaceships and constructing buildings and so on after only a few short months of having lived on Earth...

Well, sure... the ones who made piece (however short-lived) with humans and lived on Earth were being trained in things like manufacturing.  The ancient Protoculture prohibited the Zentradi from having knowledge like that to keep them dependent on the Protoculture-controlled factory satellites, so the ones who didn't live on Earth and thus never received that human education would find the idea of making something new to be a completely alien concept.  

To quote your own translation of Worldguide 10A "The Zentradi":

Quote

Above all else, they couldn't undertake creative actions at all, and the thoroughness of the limited thinking was to a degree that they could not (did not) even make repairs, let alone make something new.

 

[aurance]

There was a new mecha teased to be in Delta movie 2, right? Was it just one?

[Bolt]

Just the one (So far..). Though we are expecting to see variants on the other Delta VF's..

[Seto Kaiba]

8 minutes ago, aurance said:

There was a new mecha teased to be in Delta movie 2, right? Was it just one?

I've seen nothing of interest WRT new teaser content for Absolute LIVE!!!!!!.

[aurance]

Another question, the thing on the forearms of yf-29 are thrusters? Not guns?

[aurance]

3 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Just the one (So far..). Though we are expecting to see variants on the other Delta VF's..

That looks a lot like Vampire, doesn’t it

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, aurance said:

Another question, the thing on the forearms of yf-29 are thrusters? Not guns?

As far as we know, they are not guns.

What they appear to be is the same model of high-maneuverability vernier mounted on the VF-25 Armored Pack's forearm unit.

 

[Bolt]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I've seen nothing of interest WRT new teaser content for Absolute LIVE!!!!!!.

Nothing of interest sounds subjective amigo.

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Looking at that definition you translated, I don't see any reference to the Zentradi who lived on Earth.

There are 2 key parts:

① "The nickname of the Zentraadi groups that didn't make peace with the Earthlings."

This covers the ones like Kamujin, who lived on Earth for a spell, but ultimately resumed their conflict with Earthlings.

②" They are specified as such groups as the (...)"

This is a translation of the Japanese particle や, which means "an incomplete list".  Ergo, the 2 examples indicated in Macross Chronicle are not the only ones referred to as "Lost Zentradi".

 

Perhaps there's a disconnect between your brand of English's definition of "peace" (or "make piece" in your words ), and the Japanese definition of "peace"?

 

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, sure... the ones who made piece (however short-lived) with humans and lived on Earth were being trained in things like manufacturing.  The ancient Protoculture prohibited the Zentradi from having knowledge like that to keep them dependent on the Protoculture-controlled factory satellites, so the ones who didn't live on Earth and thus never received that human education would find the idea of making something new to be a completely alien concept.  

To quote your own translation of Worldguide 10A "The Zentradi":

What was that title of ST:Disco episode?  Context is for kings?

The Worldguide 10A article refers to Zentradi pre-human contact.  As I've pointed out again and again, the Lost Zentradi term isn't limited to pre-human contact Zentradi.

 

I fully agree that the pre-human contact Zentradi are incapable of producing their own goods.  However, that's not the point that I'm arguing: some of the Lost Zentradi groups—the ones who have come into contact with Earthlings—are producing their own goods, and one of them is the Battle Suit seen at the beginning of the Macross Plus OVA series.  The other point (which has gotten lost somewhere along the way) is that the background of the Quadoran-Nona was conflated with the background of M+'s Battle Suit.

Edited April 23, 2020 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Bolt said:

Nothing of interest sounds subjective amigo.

Perhaps, but when have you known me to NOT consider even the most trivial detail of Macross mecha worthy of interest? 

 

 

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

There are 2 key parts:

① "The nickname of the Zentraadi groups that didn't make peace with the Earthlings."

This covers the ones like Kamujin, who lived on Earth for a spell, but ultimately resumed their conflict with Earthlings.

I just don't see how that interpretation fits the definition... particularly in connection with the third sentence about how c.2045 there has never been an example of them accepting peace with humankind.

The Zentradi who made up terrorist groups like Quamzin's are Zentradi who did accept peace with humanity until they were unable to overcome their mental conditioning and fighting instincts.  Chlore's fleet, who encountered humans exactly once, are cited as an example of Zentradi who are arguably no longer "lost" just from that one encounter that ended on good terms.  Even Quamzin was not immune to the lure of culture.

I don't recall any of the various Zentradi terrorist groups that sprang up after the First Space War being referred to as "lost Zentradi", that was a term for the ones who'd never really been exposed to culture and were still living a nomadic existence in space.

(If you have additional context from other sheets/sources, please don't hesitate to share it.  I know that I'm quite stubborn, but I'm always open to changing my view in the face of more data.)

 

Quote

What was that title of ST:Disco episode?  Context is for kings?

Let's not mention THAT steaming turd if we can at all avoid it... 

 

Quote

The Worldguide 10A article refers to Zentradi pre-human contact.  As I've pointed out again and again, the Lost Zentradi term isn't limited to pre-human contact Zentradi.

As I've indicated, I do not agree with your interpretation of the definition of "Lost Zentradi".  

We agree on the rest of the particulars, I just don't see how Zentradi who HAVE been living among humans (often for an extended period) fit the mold of the "Lost Zentradi" who haven't adopted any Earth's culture or lived peacefully among humans for any length of time.

 

Quote

I fully agree that the pre-human contact Zentradi are incapable of producing their own goods.  However, that's not the point that I'm arguing: some of the Lost Zentradi groups—the ones who have come into contact with Earthlings—are producing their own goods, and one of them is the Battle Suit seen at the beginning of the Macross Plus OVA series. 

We know Zentradi anti-government groups are capable of producing their own goods, but those aren't "lost" Zentradi... those are Zentradi who've been living alongside humans for a long time, their entire lives in some cases, who are rebelling against the gov't for various personal reasons.  They're not lost, they're just bastards.

Macross Chronicle doesn't support the contention that this battle suit was made by post-contact Zentradi either.  As I had noted previously, the Mechanic Sheet for it declines to give a specific origin for the design.  It echoes remarks from older publications about the design being used by the remnants of the Boddole Zer main fleet which fled the loss of their command ships at Earth, and suggests the design was created by the ancient Protoculture during their civil war 500,000+ years ago (as equipment in the inventory of those Zentradi would have to be).  They do throw in a remark about it being used by dissident Zentradi too, and the coverage does entertain the possibility that this specific example was modified from its base specs by dissident Zentradi too. 

 

Quote

The other point (which has gotten lost somewhere along the way) is that the background of the Quadoran-Nona was conflated with the background of M+'s Battle Suit.

Please do note carefully that I indicated that was fan speculation from the outset... what I consider a not-unreasonabe inferrence based on the fact that this battle suit is explicitly described as being structured like a Nosjadeul-Ger but armed like a Queadluun-Rau, and with overall combat performance that compares favorably to the VF-11. 

We know that the Queadluun-Rau was too expensive (too complex and resource-intensive) for widespread adoption and that the Protoculture built a better pilot to handle its over-the-top specs due to the standard Zentradi not being up to the job.  If it's built for standard Zentradi comfort like a Nousjadeul-Ger, armed like a Queadluun-Rau, and with less extreme performance, one could conclude fairly that it is probably an economized Queadluun derivative meant for use by the rank-and-file male Zentradi the way that the Queadluun-Nona was for the females.

It would not be the first time there were two different takes on the same idea between two different versions of a Macross story... like the Macross II Valkyries and VF-22 both being examples of VFs heavily modeled on Zentran/Meltran battle suit technology.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

6 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Perhaps, but when have you known me to NOT consider even the most trivial detail of Macross mecha worthy of interest? 

Never..

[pengbuzz]

33 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Perhaps, but when have you known me to NOT consider even the most trivial detail of Macross mecha worthy of interest? 

Well, there was that time in The UN Spacy Academy when all of us went to the bar and picked a fight with a bunch of Zolans who thought they were hot stuff. The next day, you couldn't remember the name of the bar, and the Commandant was demanding an answer, threatening to send us all to the Micross colony.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by pengbuzz

[Master Dex]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Perhaps, but when have you known me to NOT consider even the most trivial detail of Macross mecha worthy of interest? 

In all honestly it's a large part of why we all keep coming back here, lol.

[pengbuzz]

59 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

In all honestly it's a large part of why we all keep coming back here, lol.

Yeah...there's that too!

[aurance]

Are valks in fighter mode able to do VTOL? If not, would they need to take off on a conventional runway before being able to change to gerwalk in the air? I.e., if they landed on a surface in fighter mode that doesn’t have sufficient runway space, are they sort of “stuck” there, or are the verniers powerful enough for a short vertical lift/hop enough to switch to gerwalk mode?

[sketchley]

6 hours ago, aurance said:

Are valks in fighter mode able to do VTOL? If not, would they need to take off on a conventional runway before being able to change to gerwalk in the air? I.e., if they landed on a surface in fighter mode that doesn’t have sufficient runway space, are they sort of “stuck” there, or are the verniers powerful enough for a short vertical lift/hop enough to switch to gerwalk mode?

Yes (first question) and yes (last question).

Longer answer: there are a couple of scenes in the various animes where a Fighter uses its verniers to hop up enough to switch to GERWALK.  However, as the fuel for those thrusters is generally different from that of the thermonuclear reaction turbines (and much more finite), it isn't very efficient to use them that way.

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Well, there was that time in The UN Spacy Academy when all of us went to the bar and picked a fight with a bunch of Zolans who thought they were hot stuff. The next day, you couldn't remember the name of the bar, and the Commandant was demanding an answer, threatening to send us all to the Micross colony.

It makes you wonder... did Windermere IV ever consider getting into the liquor industry to help boost their economy?  With so many orchards, I bet they make a fierce hard cider or apple schnapps.

 

6 hours ago, aurance said:

Are valks in fighter mode able to do VTOL? If not, would they need to take off on a conventional runway before being able to change to gerwalk in the air? I.e., if they landed on a surface in fighter mode that doesn’t have sufficient runway space, are they sort of “stuck” there, or are the verniers powerful enough for a short vertical lift/hop enough to switch to gerwalk mode?

Most VFs are not, strictly speaking, VTOL capable in Fighter mode. 

They can, as @sketchley noted, use their high-thrust verniers to "hop" high enough into the air to facilitate switching to GERWALK mode if the situation calls for it.  Hikaru does this in his VT-1 Super Ostrich in Macross: Do You Remember Love? during the escape from Vrlitwhai's ship (~43:35).

The SV-51 is noteworthy for its ability to employ true vertical takeoff in Fighter mode due to its ventral lift fans.

It's worth noting that practically every VF is capable of Short TakeOff and Landing thanks to a combination of their high thrust-to-weight ratios and various powered lift technologies like boundary layer control systems and blown flaps that can improve lift characteristics and manipulate drag.  Their preferred short runaway solution would probably be getting a low speed takeoff going and immediately going vertical at full power as the F-4, F-16, and F/A-18 have done with famously trollish pilots at the stick.

[sketchley]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I just don't see how that interpretation fits the definition...

I don't have the time to properly address this (not to mention the lack of info on the Battle Suit one way or another).

Nevertheless, at work I was thinking about a better way to translate はぐれ, especially because "lost" has so much additional baggage not present in the original term (compare the "lost" in "a lost cause"  vs. "the boy is lost").

はぐれ gives us "to stray from", "to get lost", "to lose sight of (one's companions)", "to miss (one's chance to ...)".

So, which would be a better rendition than "the Lost Zentradi"?

• the Straying Zentradi (I feel this is less prone to confusion than "the Stray Zentradi")
• the Hagure Zentradi (... and hope the reader looks up the Japanese definition)
• the Wandering Zentradi (synonym of stray)
• the Scattered Zentradi (synonym of stray)
• the Overlooked Zentradi (synonym of miss)

 

 

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Let's not mention THAT steaming turd if we can at all avoid it... 

That show falls into the "so bad it's good" category!    Recently I started watching ST: Voyager, and from the 2nd episode it's just so... so... lacklustre.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

Nevertheless, at work I was thinking about a better way to translate はぐれ, especially because "lost" has so much additional baggage not present in the original term (compare the "lost" in "a lost cause"  vs. "the boy is lost").

はぐれ gives us "to stray from", "to get lost", "to lose sight of (one's companions)", "to miss (one's chance to ...)".

So, which would be a better rendition than "the Lost Zentradi"?

• the Straying Zentradi (I feel this is less prone to confusion than "the Stray Zentradi")
• the Hagure Zentradi (... and hope the reader looks up the Japanese definition)
• the Wandering Zentradi (synonym of stray)
• the Scattered Zentradi (synonym of stray)
• the Overlooked Zentradi (synonym of miss)

How about "the Wayward Zentradi"?

My vote would otherwise be for "the Wandering Zentradi"... though IMO "Lost" can have connotations that better fit the fact that these Zentradi are not merely living nomadically, but are living a deprived life without culture.  They are lost in more senses than merely geographical/astrographical.

 

 

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

That show falls into the "so bad it's good" category!    Recently I started watching ST: Voyager, and from the 2nd episode it's just so... so... lacklustre.

Eh... for me, it was more "so bad it's awful" most of the time.  Voyager took a long time to find its stride, but it got better with time.  Discovery seems to get worse with each half-season.

[aurance]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They can, as @sketchley noted, use their high-thrust verniers to "hop" high enough into the air to facilitate switching to GERWALK mode if the situation calls for it.  Hikaru does this in his VT-1 Super Ostrich in Macross: Do You Remember Love? during the escape from Vrlitwhai's ship (~43:35).

Ahh I just watched that scene again, such a cool scene from a mecha trivia perspective. Weird things excite us I guess.