Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Focslain]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm not sure a toy is a good representative sample?  Sadly, there isn't much art of the YF-30 Chronos to get a proper look at the underside of the CG model's wings.

I know the YF-30 is a playable fighter in Delta Scramble, I can get you picts of the underside if that will help.

[Mommar]

12 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I've gone back and reviewed the (paltry) official coverage of the YF-30, and I couldn't find any mention of pylon mounts for ordnance.  The only items listed under its armaments are its pair of 12.7mm beam machine guns, the heavy quantum beam gunpod, an assault knife (which is my bad, it does have one), and the ordnance container which contains all of its missile weapons in Macross 30 and in the novelization is later swapped out for a MDE beam cannon turret for the final battle.

The best quality art I could locate for the YF-30 is in the Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy Visual Complete Guide, and it does appear to have a pair of pylon mounting locations on the forearms like the VF-31 does, but it's not listed or mentioned or alluded to in any way.  The toy has four.

I think the Macross Mecha Manual's entry listing six underwing pylons is a copy-paste error from the VF-25 page... because this thing definitely doesn't have six.

 

The only thing outside of that are two images from the Master File showing the YF-30 with the same four under wing Pylons being used as the 31s already do.  It wouldn't be a shock to find it had two pylons per wing.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Mommar

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

The only thing outside of that are two images from the Master File showing the YF-30 with the same four under wing Pylons being used as the 31s already do.  It wouldn't be a shock to find it had two pylons per wing.

Kinda?  The YF-30s that are pictured in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried are the military's YF-30B specification, not the original YF-30 Chronos technology demonstrator spec that Reon Sakaki flew on Uroboros in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy.  I haven't seen anything about how they differ, though.  (Same as with the YF-29B in Macross 30 that presumably inspired it... all we know is that it's a superior version.)

Edited April 16, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[aurance]

Do you think it’s possible that the drone charger housing on VF-31 can contain ECM or sensor module or something instead of a drone charger? It would nicely explain why so many 31s are flying around with what look like chargers and not carrying drones or hang around Walkure.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, aurance said:

Do you think it’s possible that the drone charger housing on VF-31 can contain ECM or sensor module or something instead of a drone charger? It would nicely explain why so many 31s are flying around with what look like chargers and not carrying drones or hang around Walkure.

Macross Delta seems to have been done on the cheap, likely due to the cost of the music production, so they don't seem to have bothered making a different ordnance container CG model for the Alpha, Beta, and Gamma Flight VF-31s.

At least one of the model kits I've seen for the VF-31 does give the military spec VF-31 a different ordnance container that contains micro-missiles and what looks like some kind of a camera system?  

[jeniusornome]

I was just wondering about the code names for all of these VFs - just the ones we’ve seen in the shows. VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-4 Lightning, etc.

Most of them (prior to Zero) seem to work out the same as real-world fighters with neat names for publicity, like F-16 Falcon, F-22 Raptor, F-35 money pit, etc. 

With the Frontier VFs, the VF-25 is the “Messiah”... and the VF-27 “Lucifer”. obvious theme there. The YF-25 is even the “prophecy” in case you missed it. 

The YF-29 “Durandal” is named after a legendary sword to follow on with the VF/YF-19 “Excalibur”, so I see a connection there too.

But the VF-31 is the Kairos (a Greek term meaning roughly  “the right time”) and the customized VF-31 is the Siegfried, who is a Germanic / Nordic folk hero.

has there ever been commentary on these names and why they’re kicked? A lot of the pre-Zero ones just sound neat, so that all fits, the Phoenix is obvious symbolism... Really there’s noticeable themes or connections in the names up until Delta, and a lot of things don’t make sense about Delta, so I thought I’d just chalk it up to that. But now I’m curious. 

[sketchley]

22 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

I was just wondering about the code names for all of these VFs - just the ones we’ve seen in the shows. VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-4 Lightning, etc.

Most of them (prior to Zero) seem to work out the same as real-world fighters with neat names for publicity, like F-16 Falcon, F-22 Raptor, F-35 money pit, etc. 

With the Frontier VFs, the VF-25 is the “Messiah”... and the VF-27 “Lucifer”. obvious theme there. The YF-25 is even the “prophecy” in case you missed it. 

The YF-29 “Durandal” is named after a legendary sword to follow on with the VF/YF-19 “Excalibur”, so I see a connection there too.

But the VF-31 is the Kairos (a Greek term meaning roughly  “the right time”) and the customized VF-31 is the Siegfried, who is a Germanic / Nordic folk hero.

has there ever been commentary on these names and why they’re kicked? A lot of the pre-Zero ones just sound neat, so that all fits, the Phoenix is obvious symbolism... Really there’s noticeable themes or connections in the names up until Delta, and a lot of things don’t make sense about Delta, so I thought I’d just chalk it up to that. But now I’m curious. 

You've hit on a couple of the naming themes already.

 

<snip>

 

revised version of list posted below:

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by sketchley

[aurance]

1 hour ago, jeniusornome said:

I F-35 money pit, etc. 

Haha, now I'm demanding that the next VF be made of gold and called the Money Pit.

[aurance]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Delta seems to have been done on the cheap, likely due to the cost of the music production, so they don't seem to have bothered making a different ordnance container CG model for the Alpha, Beta, and Gamma Flight VF-31s.

At least one of the model kits I've seen for the VF-31 does give the military spec VF-31 a different ordnance container that contains micro-missiles and what looks like some kind of a camera system?  

Oh that's interesting, this model has the same size/shape of canards and fold crystal housing as the Siegfried rather than stock Kairos, I'm sure it was just an oversight but still neat.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

I was just wondering about the code names for all of these VFs - just the ones we’ve seen in the shows. VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-4 Lightning, etc.

Most of them (prior to Zero) seem to work out the same as real-world fighters with neat names for publicity, like F-16 Falcon, F-22 Raptor, F-35 money pit, etc. 

The vast majority of them fall into this category, to be honest... some of the more out-there sounding ones are just relatively obscure aircraft like the de Havilland Vampire or Vought Cutlass.

 

3 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

With the Frontier VFs, the VF-25 is the “Messiah”... and the VF-27 “Lucifer”. obvious theme there. The YF-25 is even the “prophecy” in case you missed it. 

"Messiah" was chosen as part of a promotional contest that allowed fans to name the VF-25.  The actual intention wasn't religious, it was a reference to a lyric in Shao Pai Loon that referred to the film's hero as "a very messiah" (sic).

 

3 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

The YF-29 “Durandal” is named after a legendary sword to follow on with the VF/YF-19 “Excalibur”, so I see a connection there too.

Durandal doubles as a meaningful name considering the YF-29's insane abilities are enabled by four great treasures of fold quartz embedded in it... the way Durandal's supernatural powers came from four holy treasures embedded in it.  The four pieces of fold quartz are even named for them in its official write-up.

 

3 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

But the VF-31 is the Kairos (a Greek term meaning roughly  “the right time”) and the customized VF-31 is the Siegfried, who is a Germanic / Nordic folk hero.

Kairos kind of fits with it being a derivative of Chronos.  Chronos was the personification of linear time and continuity, suitable for a story about preserving continuity and linear time.  Kairos is a "supreme moment", a point in time of great opportunity... which is kind of what the Kairos represents for the Brisingr Cluster's economy as their great moment to revive their fortunes by exporting a 5th Generation fighter.

The Siegfried thing kind of ties in with the Draken's name... one of Siegfried's famous deeds was slaying a dragon, and Draken can be translated as "Dragon".  There are a couple of references to Der Ring des Nibelungen in the series, though Macross 30 also spent a lot of time creating connections between the Protoculture and Norse/Germanic mythology.  A lot of the placenames and so on on Uroboros were Norse in nature.

 

 

2 hours ago, sketchley said:

Horror series: VF-14 Vampire, VF-17 Nightmare (and it's derivatives: VF-171 Nightmare Plus, etc)

The Nightmare's name was a play on the name of its inspiration, the Nighthawk.  The Vampire's actually named for a real-world aircraft built by de Havilland during/after the 2nd World War.

 

 

2 hours ago, sketchley said:

The odd ones are:  VAB-2 Wraith, VB-6 Konig Monster (named after the Destroid and the in-universe designer), YF-24 Evolution (named for what it does to VF tech), YF-27-5 Shaher (? named after an Iranian sniper rifle ?).

That last one is actually a typo... it's supposed to be Shahar, a Hebrew word for "Dawn" which is part of the Hebrew term that is translated as "Lucifer" in the Vulgate.  Shahar was also a diety in the Ugarit pantheon, the god of the dawn.  "Lucifer" is Helel bin Shahar, "Light-bringer, Son of the Dawn".  Lucifer, the Light-Bringer, is the son of the Dawn.  Shahar is Dawn, so the Lucifer (VF-27) is the son of the Shahar (YF-27).

As references go, this one is OBSCURE.  Took me ages to figure out "Shaher" was a typo.

 

 

1 hour ago, aurance said:

Oh that's interesting, this model has the same size/shape of canards and fold crystal housing as the Siegfried rather than stock Kairos, I'm sure it was just an oversight but still neat.

The model above was converted from a VF-31J kit.

[sketchley]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That last one is actually a typo... it's supposed to be Shahar, a Hebrew word for "Dawn" which is part of the Hebrew term that is translated as "Lucifer" in the Vulgate.  Shahar was also a diety in the Ugarit pantheon, the god of the dawn.  "Lucifer" is Helel bin Shahar, "Light-bringer, Son of the Dawn".  Lucifer, the Light-Bringer, is the son of the Dawn.  Shahar is Dawn, so the Lucifer (VF-27) is the son of the Shahar (YF-27).

As references go, this one is OBSCURE.  Took me ages to figure out "Shaher" was a typo.

The more I learn of the meanings of the names that Kodachi Ukyou* selected, the more and more I'm blown away by his work.

* For those that don't know: he's the writer behind the Macross the Ride novels, and quickly went on to other big Macross writing projects (pretty much involved in everything from Macross 30 and beyond).

[jeniusornome]

Wow, thanks @sketchley and @Seto Kaiba! that's great background info. I hadn't thought of Siegfried / Draken but that's pretty obvious now you've brought it up, and Chronos/Kairos makes a lot more sense too.

I guess as far as the VFs go, the 25 qualifies as "very messiah" but... still kind of an odd name. I guess it was the second coming of the VF-1 given how popular a design it has been? Cute reference to a Minmay song, dunno if I'd call it an evil slayer though...

I didn't know about the contest thing for the VF-25. I had assumed "Lucifer" for the VF fit in with the idea that Macross Galaxy's human population had basically fallen from grace (there's another one) by going all-in on cybernetics and then attempting to wage war on everyone by possessing the Vajra and etc etc. Messiah as the salvation of the Frontier fleet (and "all living beings everywhere" by extension).

Kinda makes you wonder what names we would have gotten if a different lyric reference had won. Like the VF-25 kyuuun, or the VF-25 sunset...

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, sketchley said:

The more I learn of the meanings of the names that Kodachi Ukyou* selected, the more and more I'm blown away by his work.

* For those that don't know: he's the writer behind the Macross the Ride novels, and quickly went on to other big Macross writing projects (pretty much involved in everything from Macross 30 and beyond).

He seems to be a big fan of giving everything a Meaningful Name... and I do mean EVERYTHING.  Almost every placename, even the trivial ones, in Macross 30 have direct significance to their relevance to the plot.

 

4 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

I guess as far as the VFs go, the 25 qualifies as "very messiah" but... still kind of an odd name. I guess it was the second coming of the VF-1 given how popular a design it has been? Cute reference to a Minmay song, dunno if I'd call it an evil slayer though...

That's what happens when you let the fans name your latest design... previous contests resulted in VF designs with names like "Schneeblume" and "Schneegans".

 

4 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

Kinda makes you wonder what names we would have gotten if a different lyric reference had won. Like the VF-25 kyuuun, or the VF-25 sunset...

Kawamori has some esoteric tastes and is a noted student of aviation history.  One has to wonder what he might've otherwise named the Su-27-inspired VF-25... as the second (third) coming of the VF-1 design maybe it would've been Tomcat II?

[sketchley]

Alright, now that I'm finished work, I can revise this properly:

Inspired by real aircraft: 

• VF-1 (XB-70 Valkyrie)
• VF-4 (P-38 Lightning*)
• VA-3 (A-26 Invader)
• VF-3000 (F-8 Crusader)
• VF-5000 (Star Mirage play on the Dassault Mirage)
• VF-11 (P-47 Thunderbolt)
• VF-22 (Sturmvogel nickname of the Me 262 fighter-bomber**)
• VF-14 (de Havilland Vampire)
• VF-17 (Nightmare a play on the F-117's name: Nighthawk)
• Sv-262 Draken (Me 262 AND Saab 35 Draken***!)

* interestingly, it was named "Lightning III" before the F-35 was named Lightning II!

** Schwalbe is the nickname of the fighter version—which is also the name for the VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei.

*** the names of the Sv-262's drones "Lilldraken" is also the nickname for the Saab 210 (a sub-scale test aircraft).

 

The sword series: 

• VF-9 Cutlass
• VF-19 Excalibur
• VF-19EF Caliburn
• VF-19ACTIVE Nothung
• YF-29 Durandal (though the YF-29B is named Perceval)
• Sv-154 Svard (Swedish surname; means sword)

 

The Messiah series ("Messiah" is essentially a fan-submitted contest entry), in order of RL appearance:

• VF-25 Messiah
• VF-27 Lucifer
• YF-25 Prophecy
• YF-25 Paladin Pack
• YF-27-5 Shahar (god of the dawn, with Lucifer (Helel bin Shahar) being the son of the Dawn)

 

The time series (Greek gods of time):

• YF-30 Chronos
• VF-31 Kairos

 

Mythological/Legendary/Religious series: VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-1P Freya, VF-14 Vampire, VF-17 Nightmare , VF-19 Excalibur, VF-19EF Caliburn, VF-19ACTIVE Nothung, YF-29 Durandal, YF-29B Perceval), VF-31 Siegfried*, and Sv-262 Drakken (Drakken translates as "dragon").

* Wikipedia says "Siegfried is a German language male given name, composed from the Germanic elements sig "victory" and frithu "protection, peace".  The name is medieval and was borne by the legendary dragon-slayer also known as Sigurd. It did survive in marginal use into the modern period, but after 1876 it enjoyed renewed popularity due to Wagner's Siegfried."

 

The odd ones:

• VF-0 Phoenix (most likely named for both in-universe story reasons and the real life re-imaging of the VF-1)
• VT-1 Ostrich (named after its shape?)
• SDP-1 Stampede Valkyrie
• VAB-2 Wraith
• VF-3/VF-X3 Star Crusader
• VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie (named after... its mission role?)
• VB-6 Konig Monster (named after the Destroid and the in-universe designer)
• YF-24 Evolution (named for what it did to VF technological development/progression)
• Pheyos Valkyrie (AKA: EVA/Enemy Valkyrie)
• Sv-52/SV-52γ Oryol

Edited April 18, 2020 by sketchley

[Bolt]

Nice job Aaron.  Now if we can only figure out the name of the VF-24 NUNS model..

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, sketchley said:

* interestingly, it was named "Lightning III" before the F-35 was named Lightning II!

That has a fairly straightforward explanation.

During testing, the USAF's YF-22 was informally known as the Lightning II between its rollout in August 1990 and the USAF's formal announcement that the production aircraft would be named "Raptor" in April 1997.  Macross's VF-4 Lightning gained the III after the YF-22's informal nickname became public knowledge, but before the F-22 was officially named "Raptor".  IIRC, the first time that the VF-4 appeared with the roman numeral III appeneded to its name was in Macross Digital Mission VF-X, which came out a little over one month before the F-22's name was officially designated "Raptor".

 

7 hours ago, sketchley said:

The sword series: 

• VF-9 Cutlass
• VF-19 Excalibur
• VF-19EF Caliburn
• VF-19ACTIVE Nothung
• YF-29 Durandal (though the YF-29B is named Perceval)
• Sv-154 Svard (Swedish surname; means sword)

Perceval may constitute a separate theme specifically between itself and Durandal, namely one of knights and holy weapons with Christian mythos basis.  Durendal in The Song of Roland is a holy sword that derives its magical powers from four holy relics that were embedded into it (which the four pieces of fold quartz that power the YF-29's fold wave system are named for).  One of the details that is frequently lost in later Arthurian mythos is that Perceval/Peredur possessed a holy weapon of his own... a magical eternally-bleeding spear strongly implied to be the Spear of Destiny (AKA the Lance of Longinus).  In some versions of its myth, the lance itself also contains a holy relic (a nail from the true cross) and is otherwise follows the standard myth of an "invincible spear" that can pierce any shield or armor.

 

7 hours ago, sketchley said:

The odd ones:

• VF-0 Phoenix (most likely named for both in-universe story reasons and the real life re-imaging of the VF-1)
• VT-1 Ostrich (named after its shape?)
• SDP-1 Stampede Valkyrie
• VAB-2 Wraith
• VF-3/VF-X3 Star Crusader
• VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie (named after... its mission role?)
• VB-6 Konig Monster (named after the Destroid and the in-universe designer)
• YF-24 Evolution (named for what it did to VF technological development/progression)
• Pheyos Valkyrie (AKA: EVA/Enemy Valkyrie)
• Sv-52/SV-52γ Oryol

The VF-3/VF-X3 actually belongs up with the mythological references... its other name, as indicated in the game's manual, was the Medusa.

[sketchley]

11 hours ago, Bolt said:

Nice job Aaron.  Now if we can only figure out the name of the VF-24 NUNS model..

We'll have to wait until Kawamori gets around to naming it.  Alas, that probably means never, and it joins the list of other designated, but unnamed Valkyries:

• VF-X-2
• VF-X-3
• VF-X-4
• VF-5
• VF-6
• VF-7
• VF-15
• VF-16
• YF-24 (note: distinct from the YF-24 Evolution)
• VF-24
• Sv-51

 

We could also add to the list the ones that are described, but not really named or designated:

• Variable Police Air Patrol Craft
• Variable Police Space Patrol Craft
• Variable Ground Police Patrol Craft

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

We'll have to wait until Kawamori gets around to naming it.  Alas, that probably means never, and it joins the list of other designated, but unnamed Valkyries:

Even if Kawamori were so inclined, it's highly likely that he would defer to aviation traditions and conventions and only assign names to the production aircraft.

Experimental aircraft - the so-called "X-planes" - are almost never given actual names.  This is partly because experimental aircraft tend to be built in very small numbers only and are prone to a high loss rate, so nobody really wants to get too attached.  Of the few that do have names, most are just the government program name or an abbreviation thereof, as on the X-30 NASP, X-23 PRIME, and X-20 Dyna-Soar ("Dynamic Soarer").  Naming prototypes is a fairly recent trend, usually individual prototypes are unnamed or are given individual nicknames by their pilots like two YF-23s being Gray Ghost and Black Widow II respectively.  Sukhoi, the designers of the SV-51, don't give their aircraft designs names either.  Even the SV-52 орел is an affectation on the part of its pilot not an official name for the SV-52.

[AN/ALQ128]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:42 AM, jeniusornome said:

The YF-29 “Durandal” is named after a legendary sword to follow on with the VF/YF-19 “Excalibur”, so I see a connection there too.

 

There was also an experimental French fighter from the 50's called the SNCASE SE-212 Durandal. Probably just a coincidence though, it is fairly obscure.

[Bolt]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Even if Kawamori were so inclined, it's highly likely that he would defer to aviation traditions and conventions and only assign names to the production aircraft.

VF-24 is a production model..

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

VF-24 is a production model..

But the VF-X-2, VF-X-3, VF-X-4, and YF-24 aren't... I was responding to the list.

[Bolt]

36 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

But the VF-X-2, VF-X-3, VF-X-4, and YF-24 aren't... I was responding to the list.

I know mate.  I'm just wishing upon a star.. I've already started my VF-24 kit bash and would welcome input for the name. As i get into the build further, i may need assistance with certain details. For example, is it just the YF version that has the "camel back"?  Would the VF version have integrated that feature differently?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

I know mate.  I'm just wishing upon a star.. I've already started my VF-24 kit bash and would welcome input for the name. As i get into the build further, i may need assistance with certain details. For example, is it just the YF version that has the "camel back"?  Would the VF version have integrated that feature differently?

It was the original YF-24 that had the hump that got it nicknamed "Camel".  

The Evolution version had a scaled-down, more mature version of ISC technology that fit into the aircraft's nose the same as the production ISCs.

[Bolt]

[aurance]

Is there a picture of this camel mech? Or was it just text descriptions.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, aurance said:

Is there a picture of this camel mech? Or was it just text descriptions.

Just text.

[LRS]

Has anyone thought that transforming fighters post Zentradi are kind of pointless?  Ok, let's put aside the fact that its a transforming robot show I get it.

But it seems to me that the shows don't do a good job of showing the military necessity for a transforming plane and instead focus on transformation because its cool or because they can. It would seem to me that the majority of the military should be non transforming planes with a small amount for special ops situations. 

If you need bipedal mecha what about the poor unloved destroids. Granted I haven't seen some of the newer shows but have there even been any new destroid designs other than the monster because no one on this forum really talks about them if there are. Have they scrapped the destroid idea because I guess they are redundant. Maybe I'm just thinking the macross franchise is becoming a bit stale creatively. Seems to me it is just rehashing the same theme as the original with unfortunately a greater emphasis on the singing part. 

I'm ready for a destroid series, without singing. 

[Bolt]

Well. IMO, it isn't really post Zentradi even in Macross Delta . One must remember the vast majority of space out there and the fact that old school Zentradi still roam about. Also, transforming planes has been fully integrated into the Macross world and has many apparent advantages. Why go back to a square wheel? The mobility and versatility of 3 modes is unrivaled.

As far as Destroids and your request for a "gritty war drama with destroids"  remember Macross is made in Japan and mainly consumed there.  Gritty destroid action with no singing just wouldn't be Macross. Remember the 3 pillars of Macross my friend. 

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, LRS said:

Has anyone thought that transforming fighters post Zentradi are kind of pointless?  Ok, let's put aside the fact that its a transforming robot show I get it.

But it seems to me that the shows don't do a good job of showing the military necessity for a transforming plane and instead focus on transformation because its cool or because they can. It would seem to me that the majority of the military should be non transforming planes with a small amount for special ops situations. 

Put simply, there is no such thing as "post-Zentradi" in Macross.

The Zentradi Boddole Zer Main Fleet was "defeated" in February 2010, but approximately 60% of the fleet's nearly 5 million warships remain active after retreating from the loss of its various command ships.  Roughly 3 million Zentradi warships in formations of various sizes scattered around the general region of space the New UN Government was exploring and settling with its emigrant fleets would be ample justification on its own to consider the threat posed by the Zentradi to be an ongoing one.  The reality is even harsher.  Boddole Zer's main fleet was just one of five thousand Zentradi main fleets the ancient Protoculture created at the peak of their power, and somewhere between two thousand and three thousand of those main fleets are still active in the galaxy.  Humanity's saving grace is that traveling by space fold is about the worst possible way to explore and survey the galaxy, so Zentradi only find emigrant fleets and colonized planets completely by chance.

With tens of thousands of automated factory satellites across the galaxy churning out unceasing supplies of soldiers and war materiel for the Zentradi, there is unlikely to be a "post-Zentradi" era anytime soon.

"Rogue" Zentradi forces stumble onto New UN Government planets and fleets on a fairly regular basis though, and Zentradi terrorist organizations inside the New UN Government's sphere of influence pose their own threats as well.

For instance:

• Macross II: Lovers Again's timeline has Earth's UN Forces fighting no less than six main fleets and innumerable smaller "rogue" formations between 2009 and 2092.  Two of its side stories, Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song, involve conflicts with two (three) of those main fleets.
• Macross Plus Episode One essentially opens on Isamu's unnamed squadron fighting rogue Zentradi in deep space in 2040.
• Macross 7's unbroadcasted episode "Fleet of the Strongest Women" shows the 37th long-distance emigrant fleet encountering a rogue Zentradi fleet in 2046.
• Macross Frontier's titular fleet encountered rogue Zentradi forces at least twice in its backstory.  Once in ~2055 (see Macross Frontier ep09 "Friendly Fire") and once in 2058 (in the light novel Macross the Ride, which also includes a 2058 terror attack on Macross Frontier and Macross Galaxy by a Zentradi-led anti-government group.)
• Macross Delta's gaiden manga The White Knight of the Black Wing depicts Windermere IV's Kingdom of the Wind balking a bit at its obligations as a New UN Gov't member to send part of its defense forces to reinforce one of its neighbors which is under attack by a rogue Zentradi fleet in 2060.  This obligation, and the inevitable wartime losses, are a part of what motivated King Grammier Neirich Windermere VI to decide that the Kingdom of the Wind should secede from the New UN Government... leading to the 2060 war of secession that ended with NUNS Maj. Wright Immelmann dropping a dimensional warhead on the city of Carlyle, setting up the entire plot of the series.
• The "canon" videogames Macross M3, Macross Digital Mission VF-X, and Macross VF-X2 all feature Zentradi terrorist groups.
• Variable Fighter Master File makes several mentions of fleets or planets being attacked by rogue Zentradi, including the total loss of emigrant planet Spica III and an attack on the Macross Valiant fleet in 2061 in which an emigrant ship that was unable to escape with the rest of the fleet had to be self-destructed with dimensional warheads to avoid it falling into Zentradi hands after its passengers were evacuated.

There are more examples, this is just what I can recall offhand.

 

6 minutes ago, LRS said:

If you need bipedal mecha what about the poor unloved destroids. Granted I haven't seen some of the newer shows but have there even been any new destroid designs other than the monster because no one on this forum really talks about them if there are.

Macross II: Lovers Again had new models of Destroid.  That OVA and the "parallel world" timeline it occupies are pretty much the only Macross setting where Destroids remain a viable strategic option.  The UN Forces in Macross II had updated the First Space War-era Destroid concepts with new technologies and at least one all-new model, like the railgun-equipped Defender EX, a more robust and heavily armed Phalanx Kai, a Tomahawk II model that was also upgunned with railguns and multiple sets of beam cannons, an even gruntier Monster, and the all-new GERWALKroid that filled a role similar to an attack helicopter.

The Macross official setting that Macross Plus and later works belong to, however, took the view that the Destroids were surplus to requirements since they were developed for a land war against the Zentradi that never came and wasn't really part of the Zentradi MO.  They remained in service for a little while, but they were eventually retired and either found their way onto practice ranges for use as targets in live fire exercises (as seen in Macross Plus) or were disarmed and sold off to civilians to be used as various types of heavy machinery for construction, demolition, and mining (as seen in Macross 7).  The only "new" Destroids seen in limited military use have been local governments using modernizations of decades-old platforms like the ADR-03 (the "Cheyenne II" in Macross Frontier and Macross Delta) and the ADR-04 (the "Super Defender" in Macross the Ride).  There hasn't really been new model development of Destroids since the end of the First Space War... unless you want to count the mobile weapons Gjagavan Va and Annabella Lasiodora from Macross VF-X2, which are mobile weapons used by anti-government forces.  (A Macross Frontier short story hints at them being mobile weapons rejected for use by the New UN Forces.)  There's also the VB-6 Konig Monster, but that's a variable bomber that just happens to look like the Monster Destroid in GERWALK mode.

 

6 minutes ago, LRS said:

Have they scrapped the destroid idea because I guess they are redundant.

More or less.

Some New UN Government members make limited use of modernizations of 50 year old Destroid designs in their armed forces.  The Macross Frontier fleet, for instance, makes use of a modernized version of the UN Wars-era ADR-03 Cheyenne as a mobile anti-aircraft gun and ground defense unit to fight threats inside of its habitat ships... in part because the rollers in their feet don't rip up the pavement of the public roads.  They're not depicted as being particularly effective, and those with static postings like the ones used as AA guns aboard the SMS Macross Quarter are unmanned and remotely operated.

Destroids have found a niche as heavy industrial equipment, though.  Unarmed versions of the modernized ADR-03 Cheyenne - known as the "Destroid Work" or "Workroid" - seem to be a fairly popular and widespread heavy duty vehicle.  They're depicted being used for asteroid mining, construction, disaster recovery, and even spaceport cargo handling.  The protagonist of Macross Delta, Hayate Immelmann, is introduced as a (bored) workroid driver handling interstellar freight at a spaceport on Al Shahal.

 

6 minutes ago, LRS said:

Maybe I'm just thinking the macross franchise is becoming a bit stale creatively. Seems to me it is just rehashing the same theme as the original with unfortunately a greater emphasis on the singing part. 

Eh... the writing in the last series wasn't that great because they were hardcore pushing the idol group they'd formed for the series, but audiences still went nuts for it and it's making serious bank in Japan with another movie scheduled to come out soon.  I don't think I'd say it's stale... it's just not focusing on the wants of western audiences, because we aren't the primary/intended audience.

 

6 minutes ago, LRS said:

I'm ready for a destroid series, without singing. 

... yeah, don't hold your breath for that one.

Your expected wait time is approximately forever.

[Seto Kaiba]

55 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Gritty destroid action with no singing just wouldn't be Macross.

Gundam kinda cornered that market anyway. 

No sense in trying to compete with the metaphorical 800lb gorilla of the genre, even if it is clinically depressed and frequently about as exciting as listening to Ben Stein narrate the phone book.

[LRS]

Well you all raise excellent points. I forgot about there being more Zentradi. 

I'm torn, should they bring back the Zentradi as a prominent recurring antagonist or would that be recycling plot. Seems odd that the Zentradi would ignore humans considering the damage they did. There still seem to be a ton of them out there. I'd be interested to see if any other fleets or factory satellites have different enemy mecha. 

Too bad about destroids. I liked them. 

 

I thought macross 2 wasn't cannon. Ill watch macross delta. Maybe ill like it. 

Watches intro of first episode. Ooh zombie virus that sounds cool. Gets to walkure tactical sound force .

 

Sigh...I'm just not Japanese. I can't with the idol stuff 

And while I'm being a crotchety old man, I miss hand drawn animation. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by LRS

[Seto Kaiba]

20 minutes ago, LRS said:

I'm torn, should they bring back the Zentradi as a prominent recurring antagonist or would that be recycling plot. Seems odd that the Zentradi would ignore humans considering the damage they did. There still seem to be a ton of them out there. I'd be interested to see if any other fleets or factory satellites have different enemy mecha. 

They've done relatively little with the Zentradi main fleets since the original series and first movie, but Zentradi terrorist groups have featured fairly prominently in a number of stories so far.  

 

20 minutes ago, LRS said:

I thought macross 2 wasn't cannon. Ill watch macross delta. Maybe ill like it. 

Macross II: Lovers Again not being canon was, ironically, fanon intended to troll Macross II fans.

Big West, the owners of Macross, never considered Macross II to be non-canon or "not official".  Their stance only changed from it being THE Macross sequel to A Macross sequel and an officially-recognized alternate universe story.  It was never disavowed the way its vocal critics claimed.  You'll find acknowledgements of it and its tie-in games throughout various franchise publications in the 90's and into the 2000s even before Kawamori spoke up about it.

Shoji Kawamori publicly dismissed the "Macross II is non-canon" argument about ten years back, indicating that he considered it just as valid a Macross story as any other. 

Mind you, Kawamori's view of canon and continuity is a "broad strokes" view.  He considers all of the Macross stories equally valid, but doesn't want to get bogged down in minutiae, and also has indicated that he sees them all as being dramatizations of a "true" Macross history.

 

20 minutes ago, LRS said:

Watches intro of first episode. Ooh zombie virus that sounds cool. Gets to walkure tactical sound force .

Var syndrome isn't really a zombie virus in the traditional sense... though I suppose it is a bit similar to the one in 28 Days Later that produces berserk fury in its infectees without actually killing them.

[LRS]

38 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They've done relatively little with the Zentradi main fleets since the original series and first movie, but Zentradi terrorist groups have featured fairly prominently in a number of stories so far.  

 

Macross II: Lovers Again not being canon was, ironically, fanon intended to troll Macross II fans.

Big West, the owners of Macross, never considered Macross II to be non-canon or "not official".  Their stance only changed from it being THE Macross sequel to A Macross sequel and an officially-recognized alternate universe story.  It was never disavowed the way its vocal critics claimed.  You'll find acknowledgements of it and its tie-in games throughout various franchise publications in the 90's and into the 2000s even before Kawamori spoke up about it.

Shoji Kawamori publicly dismissed the "Macross II is non-canon" argument about ten years back, indicating that he considered it just as valid a Macross story as any other. 

Mind you, Kawamori's view of canon and continuity is a "broad strokes" view.  He considers all of the Macross stories equally valid, but doesn't want to get bogged down in minutiae, and also has indicated that he sees them all as being dramatizations of a "true" Macross history.

 

Var syndrome isn't really a zombie virus in the traditional sense... though I suppose it is a bit similar to the one in 28 Days Later that produces berserk fury in its infectees without actually killing them.

Thanks! I didn't know about the Mac 2 history. 

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, LRS said:

Watches intro of first episode. Ooh zombie virus that sounds cool. Gets to walkure tactical sound force .

Ya.. best to go back and watch Macross Zero and Macross Plus.  Great destroid and mecha fighting in Zero. M+ is just all around awesome.

 

1 hour ago, LRS said:

Sigh...I'm just not Japanese. I can't with the idol stuff 

I hear you mate. But we all loved Macross back in the day and that had the singing idol. Maybe you just put up with it. Now you can't avoid it.  

I'm an "old man" too but i love a lot of the music. What to do..? Oh ya, keep on deculturing 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Bolt

[LRS]

I was under the impression that the zendradi terrorists were micronized ones that refused to integrate into human society and thus weren't true Zentradi in the....big sense. At least wasn't that the case in macross plus? Weren't those sweet power suites actually piloted by micronized people?