Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

I still need to see the last Delta movie.  I'm curious to see how the lil Drakens enhance the performance of the VF-31 Siegfried. I already know they enhance the look..

Eh... for all the hype it got, it only shows up in one scene near the end of the film and not for very long.

The changes in maneuverability were more or less the same as the Draken III's.

 

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

It's probably safe to assume the VF-24 is an all regiment bad a$$. Since NUNS has had to deal with insurgents before, the VF-24 is probably a good VF slayer. I would think the YF-29 is also..

The VF-24 and YF-29 were both developed around the requirements of anti-Vajra combat after first contact was made when them in 2040 and the disastrous loss of the 117th Research Fleet in 2048.

Both would be exemplary all-around VFs, but that's mainly to do with the fact that the Vajra are so damned OP that they exceeded the performance of 5th Generation VFs in plenty of ways.

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

As for the VF-24, as usual it is all speculation but the design for the YF-24 indicated it was more of an anti-ship platform with such gems as using fold boosters to fold into Zentradi lines (or inside big ships) unload hell and fold out before joining the unfortunate giants in firey death. This kind of fighting isn't as useful against another VF but since it is so speced out, it can probably manage. 

As far as we know it's a main VF, so it's more a multirole strike fighter than an attacker.

Imagine what a properly focused attacker could do if built to the same tech level as the VF-24... 

 

1 hour ago, NightmarePlus said:

IIRC that had to do with one of the tests where a YF-24 managed to fold in close enough to the target and launch a simulated reaction missile at the bridge of the target carrier.

Yup.

 

16 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Ah so.. is rhat in tje VFMF  VF-25 Messiah book?

What's to prevent something like a VF-171 doing the same?

That's in Macross Chronicle's history of the YF-24 Evolution program.  IIRC, that's also the one to mention that the test pilot for the final YF-24 Evolution demonstration to the Earth NUNS brass was Maj. Isamu Alva Dyson of the NUNS Reserve.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably something in the avionics that prevents the VF-171 from making folds THAT precise on the fly.

[Bolt]

Wow! Dyson tested up the 24.. very cool. That man is a legend (mostly in his own mind ..)

[Master Dex]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Wow! Dyson tested up the 24.. very cool. That man is a legend (mostly in his own mind ..)

From the depths of space (and a recent SDCon panel): "YAHOO!!" 

[Bolt]

That must've been before his SMS cargo hauling days. Too bad he didn't become enamored with the YF-24 and have himself a custom. Like he did with the YF-19. Of course it makes perfect sense how he was able to finally acquire the VF-19 Advanced..And , I'm sure, acquiring even a monkey model 24 would've been probably near impossible. Especially if his CO had read Isamu's service record, or even glanced at it.

[Master Dex]

Well the 24 testing was when he was in NUNS Reserve. He could have been doing SMS as the day job by then and and took a sabbatical to do the flight testing (it would need more than a weekend or annual tour, so he'd be given special orders for duty and be temporarily active for longer). As the YF-24 then was being tested for development for NUNS, there is no way he could get a copy (much less one that isn't de-rated), plus... NUNS knows him, and they know that'd a bad idea all around. As for the VF-19 Advanced... well we know that story already, and it starts with attempted lawbreaking, lol.

Fact is the 19 is Isamu's true love (his VA agrees, lol) so no matter how fun the YF-24 is, it'll never be his plane, even if his 19 is a monkey model now (as it only could be). He could get a monkey model version of the VF-24 or any other of the offshoots (and he does get a YF-29 in Macross 30, though he doesn't keep it since that was his time displaced self), but his heart will always be to the lady he met on Eden... Oh, and Myung maybe too, if he was lucky.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, Bolt said:

Wow! Dyson tested up the 24.. very cool. That man is a legend (mostly in his own mind ..)

Different Macross publications seem to have different takes on how famous/notorious Isamu actually is...

Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy tries to build Isamu up as a famous badass, even though the story doesn't seem to really have a lot for him to do besides give Aisha the excuse she was looking for to stick Reon Sakaki in the cockpit of the not-yet-complete YF-30 Chronos.

A lot of Macross's written materials tend to imply that the New UN Government and Earth New UN Forces kept the details of the Sharon Apple incident classified, and the true extent of Isamu's involvement was never made public... so he shouldn't be all that well-known except as a dangerous hothead.  Odds are the Earth NUNS officials who decided to call Isamu for the final demonstration of the YF-24 Evolution prototype knew full well what he'd done in 2040.

His voice actor, Takumi Yamazaki, seems to be firmly of the opinion that Isamu's an idiot.

 

53 minutes ago, Bolt said:

That must've been before his SMS cargo hauling days. Too bad he didn't become enamored with the YF-24 and have himself a custom. Like he did with the YF-19. Of course it makes perfect sense how he was able to finally acquire the VF-19 Advanced..And , I'm sure, acquiring even a monkey model 24 would've been probably near impossible. Especially if his CO had read Isamu's service record, or even glanced at it.

Yeah, that was in 2057.  

There was no hope of Isamu getting a VF-24 of any spec.  That fighter was brand new and apparently only just entering mass production c.2059, and there's no way the Earth NUNS were going to let their shiny new toy fall into the hands of someone like Isamu without adult supervision.  Especially not when he was working for a PMC.

 

 

[Bolt]

I suppose he could have taken a sabbatical to test out the 24..

17 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

As the YF-24 then was being tested for development for NUNS, there is no way he could get a copy (much less one that isn't de-rated),

I'm sure that's true , i was thinking after the testing and once the 24 was in production. If ever a time , as unlikely as it would be, there could have been to poach one..

 

20 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

even if his 19 is a monkey model now (as it only could be).

I thought the limiters were stripped back and the  19 Advanced in Isamu's possession was a one of a kind  warbird unlike any other VF-19 in the Galaxy..

37 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Fact is the 19 is Isamu's true love (his VA agrees, lol) so no matter how fun the YF-24 is, it'll never be his plane, even if his 19 is a monkey model now (as it only could be). He could get a monkey model version of the VF-24 or any other of the offshoots (and he does get a YF-29 in Macross 30, though he doesn't keep it since that was his time displaced self), but his heart will always be to the lady he met on Eden... Oh, and Myung maybe too, if he was lucky.

Ya , we all know the 19 is his girl.. 

I never played Macross 30,  (not until they release it for the PS4 US region..) It's very confusing this time displacement stuff..

 

[Bolt]

7 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

His voice actor, Takumi Yamazaki, seems to be firmly of the opinion that Isamu's an idiot

Maybe a bit of a hot head..Nevertheless,  an extraordinarily talented ace pilot

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I thought the limiters were stripped back and the  19 Advanced in Isamu's possession was a one of a kind  warbird unlike any other VF-19 in the Galaxy..

Well, two-of-a-kind.

Shinsei Industry made one for Isamu and one spare according to Macross Chronicle.

 

10 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I never played Macross 30,  (not until they release it for the PS4 US region..) It's very confusing this time displacement stuff..

Seems unlikely, though it got two different releases for the PS3.

[Bolt]

I know. Extremely unlikely...oh well..

 

[Master Dex]

41 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Maybe a bit of a hot head..Nevertheless,  an extraordinarily talented ace pilot

What Seto is saying is coming directly from said voice actor, as Seto and I were both at the panel at SDCon last weekend where Takumi Yamazaki was speaking. He literally couched his view of Isamu's character and how he went about playing him as essentially, "He's a rather silly person, and kind of an idiot." This is not to say he doesn't like Isamu a lot, and he certainly enjoys running the classic "Yahoo!" catchphrase to a crowd. He also said that Isamu's only line in Wings of Goodbye was more or less written by him as the script just had a strange sound effect in it instead. It sounds like Kawamori didn't need much convincing despite doing two takes.

My note earlier that Takumi agrees that Isamu's true love is his plane came from a bit of a joke he said in the same panel, heh.

[Bolt]

Got it.

Cheers!

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

What Seto is saying is coming directly from said voice actor, as Seto and I were both at the panel at SDCon last weekend where Takumi Yamazaki was speaking. He literally couched his view of Isamu's character and how he went about playing him as essentially, "He's a rather silly person, and kind of an idiot."

He used somewhat stronger language than that... 阿呆 cropped up a few times.

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

My note earlier that Takumi agrees that Isamu's true love is his plane came from a bit of a joke he said in the same panel, heh.

Well he does use more terms of endearment for the YF-19 No.2 prototype than he ever does for Myung in the OVA.

He literally calls it "Kawaiiko-chan" ("cutie") at one point during his first flight in it.

[Master Dex]

Yeah I was paraphrasing, though I certainly remember at saying that lol. I'm also a bit bad at reconstructing sentences from what I only heard and didn't read, but 'baka' isn't hard to forget heh. 

[Bolt]

"Baka" is certainly memorable, ha.

Are there specs on the Zentradi mecha we saw in the beginning of Delta?

[Seto Kaiba]

33 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Are there specs on the Zentradi mecha we saw in the beginning of Delta?

Unfortunately, the New UN Forces Zentradi mecha we saw on Al Shahal are barely discussed at all in the official Macross Delta print materials.  About all we have for sure is their designations, but we can take a guess as to most of their weaponry since their update hardware is mostly borrowed from elsewhere.

[sketchley]

11 hours ago, Bolt said:

Are there specs on the Zentradi mecha we saw in the beginning of Delta?

 

The Japanese Wikipedia article* has the following write-ups:

Quote

 

ZBP-104 Rigādo: hardly any improvements, however its augmentability is high, and various variants exist. It is deployed in the Al-Shahal's New Unified Force's Zentrādi garrison.

• Standard Type: the anti-aircraft laser is omitted, and there is only 1 anti-personnel laser machine-gun in the lower front.
• Missile Pod Type: the shape of the missile pod is new, and is loaded with 46 missiles.

ZBP-106 Rigādo: Type with Quadoran arms and backpack added. The lower front anti-personnel laser machine-gun is omitted. It is deployed in the Al-Shahal's New Unified Force's Zentrādi garrison.

Super Gurāji: right arm replaced by Quadoran-type manipulator and Tri-barrel Pulse Laser. A 2nd Long Range Charged Particle Beam Gun is added on top. Used by Al-Shahal's New Unified Force's Zentrādi garrison.

 

Regarding the changes, my best guess is that they are a combination of improved repairability, increased reactor output and—at least with the Rigādo—more leg room for the pilot.

 

 

* https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ゼントラーディ軍の兵器#リガード

[TehPW]

https://macross.jp/?fbclid=IwAR3e6wzthmr3ugtWIjVv9AH5iv2bHslN8D-_Z1aEoweFrXFOQCFRJxJL-NM

I came across this on UN SPACY's FB page (they are Spanish-based language, I believe in Chile?) ["Nunca esta demás compartir el sitio oficial de MACROSS."] and I got the impression they said that this Macross Portal only mentions Delta materials now (and no other Macross properties). Unless the link is incorrect, is their comment true?  

[Bolt]

Thanks Aaron. As an aside, apparently the Zentradi haven't found the need for much electronic warfare? The cyclops is mainly a recon unit, I believe. 

19 hours ago, sketchley said:

Regarding the changes, my best guess is that they are a combination of improved repairability, increased reactor output and—at least with the Rigādo—more leg room for the pilot.

Lol. Those are some major changes to a war machine design that's thousands of years old..

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, TehPW said:

https://macross.jp/?fbclid=IwAR3e6wzthmr3ugtWIjVv9AH5iv2bHslN8D-_Z1aEoweFrXFOQCFRJxJL-NM

I came across this on UN SPACY's FB page (they are Spanish-based language, I believe in Chile?) ["Nunca esta demás compartir el sitio oficial de MACROSS."] and I got the impression they said that this Macross Portal only mentions Delta materials now (and no other Macross properties). Unless the link is incorrect, is their comment true?  

The front page of the Macross portal site devoted to current news and events is pretty much exclusively Delta stuff right now, but that's because Delta is still the current series.  The old official site and the series-specific ones for the Frontier content are all very much still present.  They're just not on the front page anymore because Frontier's been over for a decade.

[TehPW]

Is that normal? Macross & Gundam are the only multi-IP series out there (besides Yamato I guess) but no links at all to other series from their main portal? I guess that's what UNS was lamenting (the translation is direct and not exactly still clear)

Edited October 10, 2019 by TehPW

[Bolt]

The stealth capabilities of the 5th gen VF's seemed to have leapt quite a ways forward from 4th gens. In M+ the YF-21 disappeared from the scope of Isamu's chaser VF-11 completely . Did this level of stealth become standard on all 5th gens?

This would include the VF-171, right?

[Seto Kaiba]

55 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Is that normal? Macross & Gundam are the only multi-IP series out there (besides Yamato I guess) but no links at all to other series from their main portal? I guess that's what UNS was lamenting (the translation is direct and not exactly still clear)

It's not that far outside of the norm, tbh... 

Gundam, for instance, maintains a main portal site similar to what Macross has that focuses on news for the latest and the ongoing projects, and then separate websites for each individual project.  Where Macross differs is that Big West Frontier seems to be doing it on a going-forward basis only, where Sunrise also worked backwards and created websites for shows that aired before its current portal site (or even the internet) were available.  Perhaps they'll do that when the next round of Blu-ray re-releases comes around... as I believe that was what dictated the site build schedule for Sunrise.

 

26 minutes ago, Bolt said:

The stealth capabilities of the 5th gen VF's seemed to have leapt quite a ways forward from 4th gens. In M+ the YF-21 disappeared from the scope of Isamu's chaser VF-11 completely . Did this level of stealth become standard on all 5th gens?

This would include the VF-171, right?

Er... you're thinking 3rd and 4th Gen, not 4th and 5th.  The VF-11 is a 3rd Generation design, the YF-21 is a 4th.

But yes, the 3rd Generation Active Stealth technology that the Advanced Variable Fighters (4th Gen) were designed to take was to be the standard active stealth tech for new fighters.  Its adoption was a bit slow, but the VF-19, VF-22, VF-171, and all later VFs use the 3rd Generation active stealth.  IIRC, the VF-171 is noted as having received its 3rd Gen Active Stealth system at the Block II update.

Next-generation active stealth in Macross will likely include active countermeasures against detection by fold wave radar as well as the current protections against electromagnetic radar.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

Oh wow. I completely was off on the VF development timeline

Thanks again!

[Seto Kaiba]

... well, it's about time for this mighty list to rear its garishly-colored head once more...

 

For the sake of convenience, the following rant will be color-coded!  
VFs that officially exist and have appeared in a Macross official setting work
VFs that officially exist and have NOT appeared in a Macross official setting work.
VFs that exist solely in non-official works like Variable Fighter Master File
VFs whose placement is speculative.

Last Edited: 10 Oct 2019 - added Neo Glaug bis to 4th Generation

 

Generation 0 - "Prototype Generation"
This generation is purely speculative and exists mainly to segregate designs that do not fully comply with the design qualifications for the First Generation Variable Fighter (e.g. thermonuclear reaction turbine engines) and were built principally for evaluation purposes rather than mass produced for actual combat service.

• YVF-X-0
• VF-0 Phoenix (YVF-X-0B)
• VF-0-NF
• Sv-50
• Sv-51
• Sv-51Σ (Unmanned Sv-51)

 

Generation 0.5 - "Upgraded Prototype Generation"
This generation contains designs that exist only in Variable Fighter Master File.  These VF designs are upgrades of the 0th Generation prototypes that were upgraded with technology from 1st Generation VFs or otherwise modernized to make them viable for long-duration operation.

• VF-0+ Phoenix Plus
• Sv-51Ω (Repurposed incomplete Sv-52 with conventional engines)

 

Generation 1 - "First Generation"
The defining traits of this generation are the adoption of Overtechnology, including thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, laser weaponry, energy converting armor, etc. in a production variable fighter.

• Sv-52
• VF-1 Valkyrie
• VF-X-2

 

Generation 1.5 - "Upgraded First Generation"
First Generation designs upgraded with Second Generation hardware drawn from the VF-4.

• Sv-51 Replica (Macross 30)
• VF-0 Phoenix Replica (Macross 30)
• VF-1 Valkyrie Plus (Blocks 6 and later, incl. VF-1X)
• VF-1P Freyja Valkyrie
• VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus
• VF-1C Civilian Valkyrie
• VF-1EX Valkyrie EX
• VF-3000S Crusader
• VF-3000B

 

Generation 2 - "Specialization for Emigrant Fleets"
The hallmarks of the Second Generation designs include the adoption of Zentradi overtechnology, refinements for regime-optimized performance in either atmosphere or space, "lessons learned" from the First Space War, and optionally the adoption of particle beam weaponry.  Most were intended for use by emigrant fleets, with low cost, simplified manufacturing, and parts-sharing.

• VF-X-3
• VF-4 Lightning III
• VF-3000S Crusader
• VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie
• VF-5000 Star Mirage
• VF-5
• VF-6
• VF-7
• VF-9 Cutlass
• VF-X-10
• V-BR-2
• VA-X-3

 

Generation 2.5 - "Upgraded Second Generation"
Second Generation VFs that were modernized to keep them in service alongside Third Generation VFs.

• VF-4G Lightning III
• VF-5000G Star Mirage
• VF-9E Cutlass

 

Generation 3 - "Project Nova and Diversification"
The Third Generation VFs are defined chiefly by the Project Nova design contest that decided the generation's main variable fighter as a true all-purpose successor to the VF-1 Valkyrie, but also by the continuing diversification of variable craft design into dedicated Attacker and Bomber roles.

• VF-11A/B/C/D Thunderbolt 
• VF-14 Vampire
• VF-15
• VF-17A/B/C Nightmare
• VA-14
• VAB-2
• VA-3
• VBP-1/VA-110 Variable Glaug
• VB-6

 

Generation 3.5 - "Upgraded Third Generation"
Third Generation VFs that've been modernized or upgraded with technology drawn from Fourth Generation VFs to keep them viable or evaluate technologies meant for Fourth Generation implementation.

• VF-11MAXL Thunderbolt 
• VF-11C Thunderbolt Interceptor
• VF-16
• VF-17D/F/S/T Nightmare
• XVF-19 (a modified VF-11)
• Fz-109 Elgersoln
• Az-130 Panzersoln
• FBz-99 Zaubergern

 

Generation 4 - "Project Super Nova: the Advanced Variable Fighter"
The Fourth Generation's distinctive design traits are among the best known in Macross.  The adoption of the next-gen ARIEL airframe control AI, thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines, fighter-scale pinpoint barrier systems, and native compatibility for fold boosters.  This generation was largely defined by Project Super Nova, the ultimately futile contest between the YF-19 and YF-21 at Eden's New Edwards Test Flight Center.  The insurmountable technological and performance complications of the two designs led to a third design, the VF-171, becoming this generation's main variable fighter.

• VF-19 Excalibur
• YF-21
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II (SMS Type)
• VF/B-22 Jagdvogel II
• VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• VB-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• RVF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• Sv-154 Svard
• Feios Valkyrie
• Fz-109G Elgersoln Gustav
• VBP-1/VA-110(改) Neo Glaug bis

 

Generation 4.5 - "Upgraded Fourth Generation"
The Generation 4.5 designs are few, and consist mostly of VF designs that were either upgraded to evaluate tech for eventual adoption by Generation 5 designs, or ones that were upgraded in extremis to make them more effective in combat against the Vajra.

• VF-19ACTIVE Nothung
• VF-19EF Caliburn
• RVF-19EF Caliburn
• VF-19EF/A Excalibur ADVANCE
• VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Manfred"
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Ushio Todo Custom"
• VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Block III and IIIF)
• VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX
• VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX Throne
• RVF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX
• Queadluun Alma

 

Generation 5 - "Project Evolution and Decentralized Development"
The Fifth Generation of Variable Fighters started development as a response to the disastrous first contact with the insectoid alien race known as the Vajra.  Existing VF designs proved utterly inadequate to rival the performance of Vajra drones, and new programs were launched to develop countermeasures for the high-g forces and other major problems with the newly finalized Fourth Generation.  The design hallmarks of Fifth Generation Variable Fighters include the adoption of Inertia Store Converter technology to insulate the cockpit against high g-forces, Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, contactless Linear Actuator technology for transformation, the ARIEL II airframe control AI, Extender Gear (EX-Gear) user interfaces, Advanced Energy Conversion Armor (ASWAG), and heavy quantum beam weaponry.

• YF-24
• YF-24 Evolution
• VF-24
• YF-25 Prophecy
• VF-25 Messiah
• YF-26
• YF-27 Shahar
• VF-27 Lucifer
• YF-28 
• YF-29 Durandal
• YF-29B Percival (NUNS Ver.)
• YF-30 Chronos
• YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Ver.)
• VF-30
• VF-31 Kairos
• Sv-262 Draken III
• Queadluun Alma
• Unknown New VF - Absolute LIVE!!!!!!

 

Generation 5.5 - "Fold Wave Performance Enhancement"
The precise criteria for considering a design to belong to Generation 5.5 are unclear at the present time, but remarks by Tactical Sound Unit Walkure leader Kaname Buccaneer and team mechanic Makina Nakajima suggest that a Fifth Generation VF which has been upgraded with a fold wave-based performance enhancement system may technically qualify as Generation 5.5.  The only craft explicitly identified as belonging to this VF Generation is the Xaos Valkyrie Works VF-31 Siegfried, which may indicate Generation 5.5 is an informal classification used only by Xaos.  Previous media have suggested the VF-31 Siegfried and others are considered Fifth Generation VFs.

• YF-28
• YF-29 Durandal
• YF-29B Percival
• YF-30 Chronos
• YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Ver.)
• VF-30
• VF-31 Siegfried (Xaos Custom)
• Sv-262 Draken III
• Unknown New VF - Absolute LIVE!!!!!!

Edited October 10, 2019 by Seto Kaiba
Updating to add Neo Glaug bis from Macross R, new VF from Absolute LIVE!!!!!!

[Bolt]

Woa! Haven't seen this breakdown, that i can recall.  Now i have a LOT more questions..

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Bolt said:

Woa! Haven't seen this breakdown, that i can recall.  Now i have a LOT more questions..

Really?  I've posted several versions of this list previously, updated as new information becomes available or new designs come to light.  I should actually edit it to include the Neo Glaug bis from Macross R... one sec.  I'm not entirely happy with that official name, given that the Neo Glaug bis isn't actually a custom Neo Glaug, it's a Variable Glaug that's been updated with technology from the Variable Glaug's 2040s vintage "Neo Glaug" unmanned conversion from Macross Plus: Game Edition.

Depending on how things shake out, I expect we'll be depositing the new VF for Absolute LIVE!!!!!! in either Gen 5 or Gen 5.5.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[seti88]

On 10/10/2019 at 11:27 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

... well, it's about time for this mighty list to rear its garishly-colored head once more...

 

For the sake of convenience, the following rant will be color-coded!  
VFs that officially exist and have appeared in a Macross official setting work
VFs that officially exist and have NOT appeared in a Macross official setting work.
VFs that exist solely in non-official works like Variable Fighter Master File
VFs whose placement is speculative.

Just happened to catch this on a old post on a JP twitter user....

Would the SW-XA1 fit under the non-official works and non master file?

which led me to this...SW-XAII Schneegans

 

Sorry if its been covered in your list already, but maybe my eyes are getting old i dont see it...

[Seto Kaiba]

4 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Just happened to catch this on a old post on a JP twitter user....

Would the SW-XA1 fit under the non-official works and non master file?

Hrm... I don't currently have either on that list.

Truth be told, I hadn't considered their placement at all since the VF-Experiment article that Kawamori did for Character Model magazine was more or less a "what would the VF-1 look like if you designed it today".  There is a little bit of setting-related backstory to them but, because they were both non-official setting material and a "what if" exercise, I'd left them off the list.

They'd be non-official works category for sure, 3rd Generation experimental airframes based on the limited non-official setting descriptions they're given.  As described, the Stealth Wing X program's goals were mostly the same as Project Super Nova's... develop a new, highly stealthy, multirole variable fighter with performance exceeding the VF-17's to cover the air superiority and interceptor roles the VF-17's attack focus made it unsuitable for.  The Stealth Wing X program used VF-1s as the basis for its experimental airframes, built up with newer, stronger materials and improved systems.  The timeframe is somewhat problematic, since it would've kicked off around the time Project Super Nova was getting ready to take delivery of the first YF-19 and YF-21 prototypes and been redundant in terms of its design goals.

 

4 minutes ago, seti88 said:

which led me to this...SW-XAII Schneegans

The closest I've seen to an official acknowledgement of the Schneegans is in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah... there's a YF-29 in there that's done up with this same paint scheme, as an apparent nod to the YF-29 design's origins.

[seti88]

I had tot if kawamori ran it through his head, that it would be considered "official" so to speak.

But i didn't cater for the fact that he himself did a "what-if".

Long story short, was just looking for design elements in old valks, that "maybe" would be incorporated into new valk merchandise releases.
Here visually, seems the only significant elements in the SW-XA1/2 would be proportions to already existing valks such as the vf1/19/21.

Edited October 15, 2019 by seti88

[Seto Kaiba]

14 hours ago, seti88 said:

I had tot if kawamori ran it through his head, that it would be considered "official" so to speak.

Nah, Kawamori's supervisory role has him working on or contributing to a lot of material that is officially considered to not be part of Macross's official setting.  Variable Fighter Master File would be the highest profile recent example.  Kawamori's a recurring contributor/supervisor on that series, but each book self-disclaims as not official Macross setting material.

 

14 hours ago, seti88 said:

But i didn't cater for the fact that he himself did a "what-if".

It's an interesting look, and there's no guarantee that things he's done as what-ifs or unrelated non-Macross projects won't eventually find their way into Macross in some form or other.

Kawamori's c.1985 Advanced Valkyrie project is a great example of this in action.  Advanced Valkyrie was a non-Macross project Kawamori was developing in partnership with Bandai, and after Bandai pulled out it started finding its way into Macross one piece at a time.  Its story about a pair of competing variable fighter test teams in a design contest to select the next-generation main fighter developed into the story of Macross Plus.  The VF-3000 design was brought into Macross pretty much as-is via Macross M3.  Macross Chronicle brought other Advanced Valkyrie designs into the Macross official setting directly including the VF-X-10 and VF-X-11, the V-BR-2, VA-X-3, and VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie.  Some of the designs in Kawamori's Advanced Valkyrie were further developed for another project called Air Cavalry Chronicles - the VF-X-10 becoming the III-C Baron Rouge - and then being imported into the Macross setting alongside original Air Cavalry Chronicles designs.  The plot of Air Cavalry Chronicles split off and became The Vision of Escaflowne, while most of its mechanical designs were imported into Macross: the III-C Baron Rouge became the VF-9A Cutlass, the A-9B Invader became the VA-3 Invader, the LV-7 Valorous Rapier became the SV-154 Svard, the Me-175 MesserGern became the VF-14 Vampire, the Fz-109 Elgersoln and Pazersoln became the... Fz-109 Elgersoln and Panzersoln, the Fz-109G Sturmsoln became the VF-14 Spiritia Dreaming Type, and the Fz-109Q Varutasoln became the FBz-99 Saubergern.

One thing you can say about Kawamori, he seldom throws a design away.  The SW-XAII seems to have developed into the YF-29 Durandal, but it's not outside the realm of possibility he'll one day find a way to include the SW-XA1 in the official setting.

(For a friend's Macross MUSH, I actually brought the SW-XA1 in as an enhanced version of the VF-1X+ that'd been brought up to 3rd Generation tech standards as an improvised main VF for players on the anti-government faction.)

 

14 hours ago, seti88 said:

Long story short, was just looking for design elements in old valks, that "maybe" would be incorporated into new valk merchandise releases.
Here visually, seems the only significant elements in the SW-XA1/2 would be proportions to already existing valks such as the vf1/19/21.

Yeah, a lot of what the SW-XA1 had has already been incorporated into current VFs... the passively stealthy designs and conformal bays in the legs were already present on the VF-11, VF-14, VF-17, VF-19, and VF-22 when the article came out, and are also present on the VF-31.

[seti88]

I am still waiting to see if he would incorporate VA-3M design elements into his newer valks.
Stuff like no physical palms/fingers or even feet that do not have jet nozzles under the feet. 

Not the aesthetically pleasing no doubt, but from a design perspective certainly unique.

Do you think if there are any more elements of his old designs that still havent made it into updated versions?

[Master Dex]

6 hours ago, seti88 said:

Stuff like no physical palms/fingers or even feet that do not have jet nozzles under the feet. 

I mean, YF-21 and VF-22 don't have engines in the legs, so that one has happened already. 

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, seti88 said:

I am still waiting to see if he would incorporate VA-3M design elements into his newer valks.
Stuff like no physical palms/fingers or even feet that do not have jet nozzles under the feet. 

Well, the Neo Glaug from 2000's Macross Plus: Game Edition and Variable Glaug from 2001's Macross M3 have no hands whatsoever and the same type of hub-based fingers-only hand that the VA-3 has respectively... 

 

8 hours ago, seti88 said:

Do you think if there are any more elements of his old designs that still havent made it into updated versions?

The real standout answer to this question would be the SeiRan 99kou (Starstorm 99-Armor), which was set to be the protagonist mecha in Air Cavalry Chronicles before the format of the story changed from science fiction to fantasy... effectively making it an early version of the titular Guymelef from Escaflowne.

The Starstorm's distinctive trait, besides wielding a katana, was that it had a variety of option packs that didn't so much add weaponry as convert the mecha into a completely different type of vehicle.  There were normal FAST Packs that look and function just like Macross's, but there were also packs that converted the fighter into a high-speed boat, a heavily armored glider, and a much larger two-seater aircraft with more powerful engines and forward-swept wings.

Kawamori briefly toyed with a similar idea to that last one in the early designs that became the VF-11 Thunderbolt, where the canards were instead the wings of the Alpha parts and there was a second cockpit where the rear-facing laser gun was that was the cockpit of the larger Beta parts.  When the two linked up, they looked a bit like the VF-11D.  He never incorporated that kind of gattai mecha design into Macross proper though he did get close with the Sound Boosters in Macross 7 and the Zentradi rebels had a gattai-capable unit that was a boss mecha in Macross M3... though its combiner was a giant version of a Nousjadeul-Ger battle suit.

 

2 hours ago, Master Dex said:

I mean, YF-21 and VF-22 don't have engines in the legs, so that one has happened already. 

They do have sub-nozzles in the feet for precision lift control in GERWALK mode, though the thrust for lift is mainly from the thrust-vectoring bypass vent in the bay where the legs are normally stored.

[seti88]

2 hours ago, Master Dex said:

I mean, YF-21 and VF-22 don't have engines in the legs, so that one has happened already. 

I was looking at the thrusters under the soles of the feet, not legs per se..

I dont thk the VA-3 has thruster nozzles under their feet(?) since the feet are derived from splitting the tail in 'half'.

If am not mistaken every other macross valk has thruster nozzles under the soles of the feet...

 

30 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, the Neo Glaug from 2000's Macross Plus: Game Edition and Variable Glaug from 2001's Macross M3 have no hands whatsoever and the same type of hub-based fingers-only hand that the VA-3 has respectively... 

 

The real standout answer to this question would be the SeiRan 99kou (Starstorm 99-Armor), which was set to be the protagonist mecha in Air Cavalry Chronicles before the format of the story changed from science fiction to fantasy... effectively making it an early version of the titular Guymelef from Escaflowne.

The Starstorm's distinctive trait, besides wielding a katana, was that it had a variety of option packs that didn't so much add weaponry as convert the mecha into a completely different type of vehicle.  There were normal FAST Packs that look and function just like Macross's, but there were also packs that converted the fighter into a high-speed boat, a heavily armored glider, and a much larger two-seater aircraft with more powerful engines and forward-swept wings.

Kawamori briefly toyed with a similar idea to that last one in the early designs that became the VF-11 Thunderbolt, where the canards were instead the wings of the Alpha parts and there was a second cockpit where the rear-facing laser gun was that was the cockpit of the larger Beta parts.  When the two linked up, they looked a bit like the VF-11D.  He never incorporated that kind of gattai mecha design into Macross proper though he did get close with the Sound Boosters in Macross 7 and the Zentradi rebels had a gattai-capable unit that was a boss mecha in Macross M3... though its combiner was a giant version of a Nousjadeul-Ger battle suit.

 

They do have sub-nozzles in the feet for precision lift control in GERWALK mode, though the thrust for lift is mainly from the thrust-vectoring bypass vent in the bay where the legs are normally stored.

Oh yeah i keep forgetting abt the updated glaugs!! Man, that design is awesome, quite a design expansion, in what a 3 mode, variable transforming mech looks like.

That would certainly cover the no palm/fingers element. Does the variable glaug also has thruster nozzles under the soles of the feet?
I cant tell...

Oh something to add to my wish of valks, bandai would merchandise.

Also would the variable glaug be considered a valkyrie? My only rational to say yes, is that it has battroid, gerwalk and fighter modes.