Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Seto Kaiba]

4 minutes ago, Bolt said:

With current fold booster technology. Single boosters can do a round trip?

Yeah, that was a new wrinkle to the tech added in Macross Frontier.  Instead of the single-use fold boosters rated for a one-way trip of at-most 20 light years seen in the 2040s (Macross Plus, Macross 7), modern fold boosters c.2059 were capable of multiple short-ranged fold jumps.

 

4 minutes ago, Bolt said:

5th gen VF's still require fold boosters?

Yes.  Fold systems are large, energy intensive devices.  It's unlikely that we'll be seeing one compact enough to fit into a VF's airframe anytime soon.  It takes an astonishing amount of energy to tie space-time in knots to teleport interstellar distances.  Even large emigrant ships can require weeks or months to store enough energy for long-range fold jumps without compromising their normal operations despite having dozens of massive fold reactors.

 

4 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Fold quartz is used to enhance offensive and defensive capabilities ? As well as manipulate or produce fold waves? I know it's crazy valuable and the most advanced VF's have it well integrated into their airframe or other components..

Mainly, fold quartz is used to produce fold waves or heavy quanta... it's the application of those individually or together that produce the dynamic effects that've underpinned several key advances like the Inertia Store Converter, Heavy Quantum beam gunpods, MDE munitions, zero-time fold systems, and fold wave systems.  Generally, its benefits are simply more potent versions of effects produced by its lower-purity synthetic substitute: fold carbon.

[camk4evr]

Is there any information about how the VF-24 compares to the VF-25, VF-27 or YF-29? How about the YF-29 vs. YF-30? I'm asking because I've gotten into a debate with someone about these and whether or not Zola (and the Macross 7 fleet) got monkey models of the VF-19 and, unfortunately all I can find on the Macross Mecha Manual about the 24 is on the Evolution.

Edited September 20, 2019 by camk4evr
clarification

[Focslain]

While @Seto Kaiba will have a more detailed answer, iirc all colonial and emigration fleets get monkey designs. Only fleets directly under the control of NUNS (ie Earth) get the full spec'ed versions.

That's why it seems that later (Frontier on) Fleets and Colonies start designing and making their own.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, camk4evr said:

Is there any information about how the VF-24 compares to the VF-25, VF-27 or YF-29?

Nope, apart from the fact that it's a mass produced version of the final YF-24 Evolution prototype... the design that all 5th Generation VFs are derived from, and which the YF-29 was an attempt to exceed the performance of.  (In short, circumstantial evidence suggests that Earth's VF-24 is the highest-performance 5th Generation production VF by a non-trivial margin.)

 

Quote

How about the YF-29 vs. YF-30?

Well, it's not quite fair to compare the two on their performance as military aircraft since the YF-29 was actually built with live combat in mind while the YF-30 was a lightly armed and minimally-equipped experimental technology demonstrator.  I've had to do some revision to my YF-29 spec, since Macross Chronicle increased the YF-29's empty weight to 15,620kg from its original 11,920kg.  This narrows the T/W ratio gap between the YF-29 and VF-27 significantly, and actually makes the YF-30 the new top dog in terms of the thrust-to-weight ratio at empty.  (M3's article is, unfortunately, outdated in this regard.)

The YF-30 weighs slightly more than half what the YF-29 does, at a mere 8,106kg to the YF-29's 15,620kg.  Presumably a fair amount of that disparity in mass is the YF-30's massive amount of onboard weaponry, the extra pair of engines, and its double thickness of energy conversion armor.  The YF-30's FF-3001/FC2 engines are a further refinement of the FF-3001/FC1 engines used as the main (leg) engines on the YF-29.  The actual increase in power is extremely small, however, at a mere +5kN.  The YF-29's armament is pretty huge by Variable Fighter standards on its own, with a pair of 25mm high-velocity machine guns, a heavy quantum beam gunpod, a MDE beam cannon turret, a combat blade, and internal missile launchers for 100 micro-missiles.  The YF-30's armament consists of a pair of 12.7mm beam machine guns, a heavy quantum beam gunpod, and whatever's loaded into its ordnance container.  The YF-30's Fold Dimensional Resonance system is said to be a more powerful and effective version of the YF-29's Fold Wave system.

In terms of actual flight performance, the YF-30 has a modest edge in acceleration with a T/W ratio of 53.085 to the YF-29's 46.675... which is more down to the difference in their weight than anything.  (For comparison's sake, the trial production VF-25's T/W ratio is 39.685, the VF-27's is 46.493, the trial production VF-31A's is 40.664 without any ordnance container mounted, the VF-31 Custom's is 44.854 without any ordnance container mounted, and the Sv-262's is 40.642.  At its original empty weight, the YF-29's was 61.164.)  It's somewhat misleading, since the YF-30 is not intended for use in live combat and is only minimally armed.  It was a Fold Dimensional Resonance system demonstrator, meant for evaluating the system's ability to penetrate fold faults.

 

Quote

I'm asking because I've gotten into a debate with someone about these and whether or not Zola (and the Macross 7 fleet) got monkey models of the VF-19 and, unfortunately all I can find on the Macross Mecha Manual about the 24 is on the Evolution.

Based on what's been said in Macross the Ride, Great Mechanics, Macross Chronicle, and even Variable Fighter Master File, a combination of factors led to the New UN Government deciding to heavily restrict exports of high spec 4th Generation VFs like the VF-19 and VF-22.  The implication is that most, if not all, VF-19s operated by emigrant defenses forces in the galaxy are the reduced capability "monkey model" export specifications.  The VF-19EF in Macross the Ride was the first time "monkey model" was explicitly used, but the VF-19P was later identified as a reduced capability export variant as well.  The ones in Macross 7 are not explicitly identified as monkey models, but it seems likely that they are given NUNG reluctance to permit the export of previous variants like the VF-19E at full spec.

[camk4evr]

Thanks Seto.

[Seto Kaiba]

21 minutes ago, camk4evr said:

Thanks Seto.

It should be noted that, given the notorious controllability problems the VF-19 exhibited that caused even the Earth NUNS to scrub its plans to adopt the VF-19 as its next main fighter, having a reduced-performance version could be argued to actually be advantageous since it would be accessible to a broader group of pilots.  Only a small number of elite pilots were equal to the task of operating the full spec VF-19 thanks to its punishingly high spec maneuverability that exceeded what even well-trained pilots of average skill and talent could take.  A monkey model VF-19F/S type would be nearly ideal, with reduced performance compared to the full spec type but with all the performance stability enhancements which were done by Shinsei in an (ultimately futile) attempt to address the VF-19's self-defeating design flaws even after the NUNS decided to pack it in and go for the less-extreme VF-171.  This is essentially what the VF-19EF Caliburn was... a VF-19 2nd Mass Production type with all the lessons learned and major tech advances to make it less brutal on the pilot incorporated save for going all-in on an ISC.

(If nothing else, this marks Aegis Focker, Isamu Dyson, Timothy Daldhanton, Angers 672, Naresuan, and a handful of others out as incredible badasses even in-universe, as men and women who not only tamed the famously untameable Advanced Variable Fighters but apparently ENJOYED IT immensely.)

Edited September 20, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

Though considered a demonstrator, the YF-30 could ,perhaps, be considered an elite surgical strike fighter. It , seemingly, has the performance specs. And it's container can be outfitted with the appropriate ordinance. And if it were to be outfitted with fast packs or have an Armored or Tornado option, the YF-30 could be quite formidable. I know we're used to many ordinance capacities on newer VF's , but if the YF-30 had a specific target or mission..

It took someone like Isamu to demonstrate the full potential of the YF-19. The previous (3?) test pilots were probably pretty talented as well..RIP..

The tame and stable VF-171 seems like the pendulum swinging in reaction to the YF-19.. It also seemed to turn out that the VF-22 became more of a mission specific fighter in even less production than the VF-19's,  no?

The VF-24 would be a great feature of another Macross game . I'm losing hope that we will see it in another series or OVA 

 

 

[Master Dex]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Though considered a demonstrator, the YF-30 could ,perhaps, be considered an elite surgical strike fighter. It , seemingly, has the performance specs. And it's container can be outfitted with the appropriate ordinance. And if it were to be outfitted with fast packs or have an Armored or Tornado option, the YF-30 could be quite formidable. I know we're used to many ordinance capacities on newer VF's , but if the YF-30 had a specific target or mission..

It took someone like Isamu to demonstrate the full potential of the YF-19. The previous (3?) test pilots were probably pretty talented as well..RIP..

The tame and stable VF-171 seems like the pendulum swinging in reaction to the YF-19.. It also seemed to turn out that the VF-22 became more of a mission specific fighter in even less production than the VF-19's,  no?

The VF-24 would be a great feature of another Macross game . I'm losing hope that we will see it in another series or OVA 

 

 

The YF-30 does have a specific mission and target... To test the fold dimensional resonance system. It really shouldn't even be a YF prototype cause they don't plan to mass produce it, but SMS lied about it to keep the specs secret. I wonder if they had to pay for that heh. By now federal NUNS probably have all that data anyway. 

In any case there is no expectation of a fighter based directly on the 30 for actual mission use cause it was never supposed to be that. NUNS could make a new prototype based on it for that if they wanted later to add to the already monster specs of their VF-24 (which probably doesn't even have a fold wave system). Just imagine the colossus of a full spec VF with a functioning FDR.

[Bolt]

Yes. That's a good point MD. I'm aware of it's ( the YF-30) original use as per what @Seto Kaiba wrote about it previously. I was just also looking at it as possibly being suitable for other or mixed roles.

And , as you say,  the YF-30 was built by SMS. Earth has the VF-24, of which there must surely be variations such as what we see in VFMF VF-25 & VF-31 , to name a few. Perhaps one of those variations are FDR birds..

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Though considered a demonstrator, the YF-30 could ,perhaps, be considered an elite surgical strike fighter. It , seemingly, has the performance specs. And it's container can be outfitted with the appropriate ordinance. And if it were to be outfitted with fast packs or have an Armored or Tornado option, the YF-30 could be quite formidable. I know we're used to many ordinance capacities on newer VF's , but if the YF-30 had a specific target or mission..

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

The YF-30 does have a specific mission and target... To test the fold dimensional resonance system.

@Master Dex is quite correct... the YF-30 had a VERY specific mission profile.  It was to evaluate the Fold Dimensional Resonance system's ability to penetrate fold faults.  It was part of Richard Bilra's pet project-slash-personal ambition to overcome the fold faults that made long-distance interstellar travel fraught with difficulty.  That it was also evaluating other advances like the Ordnance Container system was incidental, a product of its lead designer Maj. Aisha Blanchett's personal obsessions, but something that ultimately ended up as a rather useful addition given the circumstances.

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

It really shouldn't even be a YF prototype cause they don't plan to mass produce it, but SMS lied about it to keep the specs secret. I wonder if they had to pay for that heh. By now federal NUNS probably have all that data anyway. 

I'm not sure it's necessarily a lie... so much as a deliberate gaming of the system to avoid having to disclose the specs of the YF-30 and, more importantly, its experimental proprietary hardware.

If they'd lied, it would be a crime.  What they did was legal, but questionable.

 

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

It took someone like Isamu to demonstrate the full potential of the YF-19. The previous (3?) test pilots were probably pretty talented as well..RIP..

The tame and stable VF-171 seems like the pendulum swinging in reaction to the YF-19.. It also seemed to turn out that the VF-22 became more of a mission specific fighter in even less production than the VF-19's,  no?

That so many talented pilots found the Y/VF-19 difficult, if not impossible, to handle was a big part of why the "tame and stable" VF-171 ended up ousting it as the New UN Spacy's 4th Generation main VF.  What good is having the latest bleeding-edge specs and the highest performance if the monstrously pricey aircraft in question is so far beyond the abilities of the average pilot that none but the most exceptional pilots can actually fly it safely?  I mean, that Shinsei had to write off one of its two prototypes completely and had six of their seven test pilots suffer severe injuries as a result of loss of control-related test flight accidents - two fatally so - would have been a bit of a red flag for the New UN Forces.  General Galaxy's more advanced YF-21 had its own control issues, but they never wrecked a prototype or had a pilot die or suffer severe injuries in an accident (as far as we know).  Guld did die, but that was a death of his own making/choosing in a live combat situation.

At the end of it, even the Earth NUNS was so frustrated with the problems in trying to adopt the VF-19 as its next main fighter that they ultimately bailed on it and the few VF-19s in service ended up in the hands of elite special forces units like the VF-X Ravens.  The VF-22 was adopted as a Special Forces VF after losing out to the YF-19 in Project Super Nova, so its low adoption numbers were somewhat less than surprising.

 

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

The VF-24 would be a great feature of another Macross game . I'm losing hope that we will see it in another series or OVA 

I don't think we will ever see a full spec VF-24.  It'd be a story-breaking addition... like adding Kira "Jesus" Yamato to one of the other Gundam AUs.

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

In any case there is no expectation of a fighter based directly on the 30 for actual mission use cause it was never supposed to be that. NUNS could make a new prototype based on it for that if they wanted later to add to the already monster specs of their VF-24 (which probably doesn't even have a fold wave system). Just imagine the colossus of a full spec VF with a functioning FDR.

Variable Fighter Master File did, at one point, include a New UN Forces YF-30B Chronos specification (in an eye-searing Barbie pink) along similar lines to the YF-29B Percival that was depicted in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy as an informal limited production military specification.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

And , as you say,  the YF-30 was built by SMS. Earth has the VF-24, of which there must surely be variations such as what we see in VFMF VF-25 & VF-31 , to name a few. Perhaps one of those variations are FDR birds..

Probably not, given that the Fold Dimensional Resonance system was a proprietary SMS development based on the Fold Wave system.

Earth has never been one to not lead the pack technologically, though, so they may well have a technology that's better than either... and it's implied they're actively working on a way to get around the main limitation on systems like that by finding a way to synthesize fold quartz.  Right now, VFs with the Fold Wave system, Fold Dimensional Resonance system, etc. are too expensive for almost any government to deploy in numbers due to the scarcity of fold quartz of sufficient size and purity.

[Sildani]

Why not grab the fold quartz from Windermere? They’re pretty much destitute after the events of Delta, with everyone in the Brsingr Cluster either ignoring or actively despising them, so it seems to me like the New UN could simply dictate terms and begin harvesting for a bargain price. 
 

Unless they’re worried about somehow triggering either some sort of arms race, or they’re paranoid about a large quantity of high-quality fold quartz appearing in the galaxy, even if it’s mined by the New UN and only transported and used by them. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Sildani

[Seto Kaiba]

23 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Why not grab the fold quartz from Windermere? They’re pretty much destitute after the events of Delta, with everyone in the Brsingr Cluster either ignoring or actively despising them, so it seems to me like the New UN could simply dictate terms and begin harvesting for a bargain price. 

Because the New UN Government has to abide by its own laws, which strictly regulate the mining and trade in fold quartz to limit the proliferation of dimensional warheads and other particularly nasty weapons.

Also, the New UN Government essentially monopolizing-via-regulation Windermere IV's fold quartz industry was a big part of what started the first war between the two powers.

 

23 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Unless they’re worried about somehow triggering either some sort of arms race, or they’re paranoid about a large quantity of high-quality fold quartz appearing in the galaxy, even if it’s mined by the New UN and only transported and used by them. 

Seizing a native population's resources like that, especially those of a species who are no longer New UN Government members, would be a clear violation of galaxy law that prohibits things like invading the planets of sentient species.

[Bolt]

Too bad Windermere wasn't able to secretly mine & utilize their Fold Quartz..

[Seto Kaiba]

55 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Too bad Windermere wasn't able to secretly mine & utilize their Fold Quartz..

*looks at the Sv-262 Draken III's fold reheat system and all the war materiel they probably bought with fold quartz they mined*

Yes.  Absolutely.  Too bad.

[Bolt]

Lol. So they DID get away with it..

Too bad they're pan handling now..

[Seto Kaiba]

On 9/22/2019 at 12:19 AM, Bolt said:

Too bad they're pan handling now..

Yeah, kinda... it's not like they're going to starve thanks to their economy being built almost exclusively on agriculture, but they've lost the offworld market for their produce thanks to it having been used to spread Var syndrome.  The Epsilon Foundation was almost certainly the secret buyer for their black market fold quartz, and now that Berger Stone's outed Epsilon's involvement (and himself with it), they've probably lost their only buyer as well as their source of advanced tech and weaponry.

It'll be interesting to see if Epsilon's low-rent version of the fold wave system - the Fold Reheat - ever makes its way into VF designs by major aerospace defense firms like Shinsei and General Galaxy.

[Bolt]

So will the SV series see improvements? 

And if so , where would said likely upgrades be applied?

Or will it faze out..?

Are there other government using the 262 or versions thereof?

[twich]

well, Windemere has quite a few of the SV-262's in both the Hs and Ba versions, unless they are made to dismantle their military, they would still use those valkyries, since they already own them and have the infrastructure in place to service/support them.  I doubt that General Galaxies SV Works would not go through all the trouble of designing/building/delivering a whole new variable fighter without some plan to regain their investment in the design.

[Master Dex]

5 hours ago, twich said:

well, Windemere has quite a few of the SV-262's in both the Hs and Ba versions, unless they are made to dismantle their military, they would still use those valkyries, since they already own them and have the infrastructure in place to service/support them.  I doubt that General Galaxies SV Works would not go through all the trouble of designing/building/delivering a whole new variable fighter without some plan to regain their investment in the design.

Yeah but it's seen they break easily and I think Windermere was relying on Epsilon for support and maintenance a bit so they might not be able to use them long term. They do still have a protoculture ship... But that's the best thing they have... 

[Seto Kaiba]

So we've got this thing as a teaser for a new VF to be introduced in Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!!.

First blush reaction, this looks like a minimally-tweaked version of one of the early VF-27 drafts I remember seeing in Shoji Kawamori: the View Point of Visionary Creator years ago.  The lack of an obvious canopy, the large sensor blisters, its delta wing with through-wing engine nacelles, small inward-canted stabilizers, etc. all positively scream General Galaxy's handiwork.  This looks like nothing quite so much as a direct descendant of the VF-14.  Five'll get you twenty this is either a new Dian Cecht SV Works unit or another General Galaxy 5th Generation main VF (perhaps an economized VF-27 derivative).

 

 

17 hours ago, Bolt said:

So will the SV series see improvements? 

Oh, almost certainly.

Really, it's more a matter of whether or not a government in Windermere IV's position could afford them.

 

17 hours ago, Bolt said:

And if so , where would said likely upgrades be applied?

Hard to say, since the Sv-262 Draken III is such a painfully unbalanced design... crippling overspecialization is a real thing, and the Draken III is its poster child.

 

17 hours ago, Bolt said:

Are there other government using the 262 or versions thereof?

None of which we are presently aware.

This could, of course, change at any time in a side story manga, light novel, etc.

 

 

6 hours ago, twich said:

well, Windemere has quite a few of the SV-262's in both the Hs and Ba versions, unless they are made to dismantle their military, they would still use those valkyries, since they already own them and have the infrastructure in place to service/support them.

Do they have that infrastructure, though?  They were explicitly leaning on the Epsilon Foundation and its subsidiaries for all of their equipment needs.  They have the technical training to repair and maintain the Sv-262s they had, but do they have the factories and raw materials they need to actually make replacement parts?  My guess would be "no".

 

6 hours ago, twich said:

I doubt that General Galaxies SV Works would not go through all the trouble of designing/building/delivering a whole new variable fighter without some plan to regain their investment in the design.

General Galaxy doesn't own the SV Works in the 2060s, they sold them off to an Epsilon Foundation subsidiary named Dian Cecht.  The Dian Cecht SV Works were the ones who developed the Draken III.

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

Yeah but it's seen they break easily and I think Windermere was relying on Epsilon for support and maintenance a bit so they might not be able to use them long term. They do still have a protoculture ship... But that's the best thing they have... 

They have half a Protoculture ship at this point, they left a pretty big chunk of it behind on Ragna... and since its abilities largely depended on fold song, they're SOL now that their fold singer is out of commission after burning out his runes to power it during their conflict with the New UN Government.

[Bolt]

The new concept does have a very GG style design about it. Also not seeing it as very armament focused.  

The enclosed (or lack of) canopy suggests unmanned or cyborg driven. It will be interesting to see how this design further evolves..

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, almost certainly.

Really, it's more a matter of whether or not a government in Windermere IV's position could afford them.

Someone is surely gonna get a deal on some SV-262's..!

 

19 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hard to say, since the Sv-262 Draken III is such a painfully unbalanced design... crippling overspecialization is a real thing, and the Draken III is its poster child.

I guess the ISC and engines could be tweeked or upgraded. But I'm not sure how much the airframe is rated for.. Perhaps additional Fold Quarts capabilities..?

 

22 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

General Galaxy doesn't own the SV Works in the 2060s, they sold them off to an Epsilon Foundation subsidiary named Dian Cecht.  The Dian Cecht SV Works were the ones who developed the Draken III.

So DC is perhaps still producing or , at least, trying to sell some SV's..?

24 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They have half a Protoculture ship at this point, they left a pretty big chunk of it behind on Ragna... and since its abilities largely depended on fold song, they're SOL now that their fold singer is out of commission after burning out his runes to power it during their conflict with the New UN Government.

So ,as far as is known, NUNS hasn't come collecting protoculture toys from Windermere, post Delta. Perhaps Windermere will continue to tinker..

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

The new concept does have a very GG style design about it. Also not seeing it as very armament focused.  

Perhaps... then again, perhaps not.  Macross Delta did kind of mark another of the franchise's swings back towards the passively stealthy aircraft designs.  General Galaxy was very big on fully internalizing armaments on their 3rd and 4th Generation concepts like the VF-14 Vampire and VF-22 Sturmvogel II.  The VF-14 had built-in beam machineguns, internal missile bays, and an internal gunpod storage bay, and the VF-22 went one further with an internal bomb bay, dual internal gunpod mounts, and internal micro-missile launchers.

Shinsei Industry's school of design is substantially more conventional and conservative, relying more on external and conformal mounting points than internal ones.

Just because the armaments aren't immediately obvious doesn't mean they aren't there... e.g. the VF-14, VF-22, Sv-262, etc.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

The enclosed (or lack of) canopy suggests unmanned or cyborg driven. It will be interesting to see how this design further evolves..

Or just a really good wraparound holographic monitor system and armored canopy, like the Draken III had.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Someone is surely gonna get a deal on some SV-262's..!

... Berger Stone does have that slightly untrustworthy air of the used Valkyrie salesman...

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

I guess the ISC and engines could be tweeked or upgraded. But I'm not sure how much the airframe is rated for.. Perhaps additional Fold Quarts capabilities..?

Considering Keith's wind-riding was enough to incur some serious shop time (enough to have him switch to another aircraft), they probably aren't stressed for too much more than the 1,955kNx2 they've got as stock.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

So DC is perhaps still producing or , at least, trying to sell some SV's..?

Yeah, Windermere IV likely isn't their only customer... given how limited Windermere's finances are.

Then again, our best possible candidate for a SV Works mass production aircraft based on requirements was the VF-22... which was explicitly an anti-VF VF, the SV Works's turf.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

So ,as far as is known, NUNS hasn't come collecting protoculture toys from Windermere, post Delta. Perhaps Windermere will continue to tinker..

Part of the peace process mentioned in the movie will probably include Windermere IV having to surrender part of its war materiel, including the Sigur Berrentzs.

[NightmarePlus]

So i have something that's been in my mind for a while. What exactly makes a Anti-VF/Valkyrie Slayer different from any other VF?

[Sildani]

Looking at the Sv-51, VF-4, and VF-27:

pure sexiness. 

The real answer, I think, is singularity of purpose. Most other VF’s can take on various mission packs for purposes that the original VF design isn’t ideally suited for; indeed, in the case of the VF-25 Messiah there was a desire to make an “all-regime” fighter, good in atmosphere and space, with the ability to take on various Super/Tornado/Armor parts to change roles. 
 

The Slayers all seem to be purpose-designed for limited roles, or one role. The VF-4 was space-optimized, and wasn’t really used much in atmosphere. The Sv-51 was the first operational VF, built in response to the VF-0 series and intended to defeat them. The 51’s Super Parts were intended to assist. The 27 was made in response to plans for the YF-29 Durandal getting leaked to Macross Galaxy, which made them modify their 27 (which was a match for a Super Messiah) to accept its own Super Parts (more thrusters, gas, and missiles) to almost achieve parity with the 29. 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

On 10/3/2019 at 2:22 PM, NightmarePlus said:

So i have something that's been in my mind for a while. What exactly makes a Anti-VF/Valkyrie Slayer different from any other VF?

Well, the Slayer Valkyrie designs all have the distinction of having been developed by the same design team... the SV Works team established by General Galaxy cofounder, Sukhoi SV-51 and SV-52 design team member, and VF-X-4 development team member Alexei Kurakin and staffed initially with several fellow veterans of the SV-51 and SV-52 programs.

Other than that, all that really sets them apart is that their designs are optimized to fight against other VFs rather than Zentradi mecha in ways which are not specified.  I've seen a description that implies that the Slayer Valkyries are interceptors with an area defense focus.  I don't completely buy this explanation, despite both known SV Works products being modeled on real-world supersonic interceptors (the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter and Saab J 35 Draken), given that the Sv-262 Draken III is depicted operating more or less exclusively as an air superiority fighter in Windermere IV's campaign against the Brisingr Alliance.

 

 

Just now, Sildani said:

Looking at the Sv-51, VF-4, and VF-27:

But none of those are Slayer Valkyrie designs by the SV Works.

The SV-51 was developed by some of the engineers from Sukhoi, IAI, and Dornier who would later go on to join the SV Works after General Galaxy's founding in 2017, the VF-4 was likewise created before General Galaxy and the SV Works were founded, and the VF-27 was developed by the Macross Galaxy Variable Fighter Development Arsenal "Guld Works", a team named in honor of the late test pilot Guld Goa Bowman.  The SV-51 and SV-52 carry the SV designation for unrelated reasons, being principally developed by Sukhoi.

The only SV Works designs we know 100% were SV Works designs were the Sv-154 Svard and Sv-262 Draken III used by Windermere IV's Kingdom of the Wind.  The only other VF design we've yet seen that might be a SV Works development is the YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II given that Project Super Nova's operational requirements included things like being used to suppress uprisings and terrorist activity on emigrant planets.

 

 

Just now, Sildani said:

The real answer, I think, is singularity of purpose. Most other VF’s can take on various mission packs for purposes that the original VF design isn’t ideally suited for; indeed, in the case of the VF-25 Messiah there was a desire to make an “all-regime” fighter, good in atmosphere and space, with the ability to take on various Super/Tornado/Armor parts to change roles. 

Well, it's in what they're designed to fight.

Most VFs were designed around the assumption that they'd have to fight the Zentradi.  The majority of 5th Gen designs were designed around the requirements of having to fight the Vajra.  The Slayer Valkyries stand out as having been designed specifically and principally to combat other VFs.

[Sildani]

Wah. I thought I was on to something. 
 

I picked the 51, 4, and 27 because I thought one or two designers had lasted that long and had made design input to all of them, not necessarily that they’d been made by SV Works proper. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Sildani

[Bolt]

@Sildani You are correct. The SV-51 , VF-4 and

VF-27 ARE pure sexiness!!

As far as VF slayers. I don't see any specifics concerning anti VF hardware anywhere.Unless it's electronic and fold wave countermeasures,  nothing stands out. We're talking about a VF that can scramble other VF's electronics and overwhelm or disable pin point barriers, as well as out maneuver & pound the day lights out of a VF..

Edited October 5, 2019 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

23 hours ago, Bolt said:

As far as VF slayers. I don't see any specifics concerning anti VF hardware anywhere.Unless it's electronic and fold wave countermeasures,  nothing stands out. We're talking about a VF that can scramble other VF's electronics and overwhelm or disable pin point barriers, as well as out maneuver & pound the day lights out of a VF..

Yeah, that's one of the bigger issues with the Sv-262 Draken III... we're told that it's an anti-VF VF from a design team who've been specializing in anti-VF VFs since the late 2010s, but we haven't really seen anything in the specs that we can point to and say is a feature intended specifically for anti-VF use.

ECM that can defeat an enemy VF's ability to identify its target doesn't necessarily make the fighter harder for the enemy to hit, it just makes it harder to know who you just hit.  Likewise, the programmable camouflage doesn't do anything except conceal their markings and make them more difficult to identify.  The heavy quantum beam gunpod will be just as effective against a Zentradi battle pod or battle suit as it will against an older model VF, if not slightly more so since those don't have barrier systems, and its missiles are pretty conventional stuff.  It's got a sword instead of a knife, but the sword is so fragile because of weight reduction that it needs external power to make it strong enough to use, so it doesn't really feel like an advantage.

[Bolt]

The 'Lil' Draken must be the answer!

VF slaying hardware..

Edited October 6, 2019 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

The 'Lil' Draken must be the answer!

VF slaying hardware..

Hrm... well, the higher maneuverability they confer does make the Draken III a more effective dogfighter.  They're not much in the offense department though, armed with a single beam machin gun, a few micro-missiles, and energy converting armor they can't utilize unless they're docked to the Draken III.

 

[Bolt]

I still need to see the last Delta movie.  I'm curious to see how the lil Drakens enhance the performance of the VF-31 Siegfried. I already know they enhance the look..

It's probably safe to assume the VF-24 is an all regiment bad a$$. Since NUNS has had to deal with insurgents before, the VF-24 is probably a good VF slayer. I would think the YF-29 is also..

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Bolt

[Master Dex]

54 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I still need to see the last Delta movie.  I'm curious to see how the lil Drakens enhance the performance of the VF-31 Siegfried. I already know they enhance the look..

It's probably safe to assume the VF-24 is an all regiment bad a$$. Since NUNS has had to deal with insurgents before, the VF-24 is probably a good VF slayer. I would think the YF-29 is also..

 

The 29 is so specifically designed to fight Vajra it is pretty far from Anti-VF. That said because it is so powerful due to approximating the legendary abilities of the YF/VF -24 it certainly can handle a fight, as Rod proved in his YF-29B in Macross 30, only really losing to the YF-30 which only had an edge really due to the Fold Dimensional Resonance system. 

As for the VF-24, as usual it is all speculation but the design for the YF-24 indicated it was more of an anti-ship platform with such gems as using fold boosters to fold into Zentradi lines (or inside big ships) unload hell and fold out before joining the unfortunate giants in firey death. This kind of fighting isn't as useful against another VF but since it is so speced out, it can probably manage. 

[Bolt]

Ya. I figured the YF-29 is so powerful, it could easily handle VF's. Though it is optimized for Vajra combat.  

I hadn't heard the VF-24 was more of an anti-ship platform.(" ..We are the small axe.."). I would think armored VF's would be well suited for that task as well..

[NightmarePlus]

18 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I hadn't heard the VF-24 was more of an anti-ship platform.(" ..We are the small axe.."). I would think armored VF's would be well suited for that task as well..

IIRC that had to do with one of the tests where a YF-24 managed to fold in close enough to the target and launch a simulated reaction missile at the bridge of the target carrier.

[Bolt]

Ah so.. is rhat in tje VFMF  VF-25 Messiah book?

What's to prevent something like a VF-171 doing the same?

Edited October 7, 2019 by Bolt