Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Sanity is Optional]

24 minutes ago, Sir Galahad® said:

Over the years, I have seen the backpack thrusters disappearing, with the VF-25 just having six small thrusters that push you forward while in GERWALK since the legs are pointing downward. I do understand that that is what the FAST packs are for, or the Extra engines in the VF-27 and YF-29. But when I look at the VF-31, I would think, what would push this forward while in GERWALK (image credit to Projeckt-Zero-Three)

Simplest answer is vectoring the foot thrust slightly backwards, and using the rest of the thrusters to cancel out the induced roll.

[Seto Kaiba]

25 minutes ago, Sir Galahad® said:

Over the years, I have seen the backpack thrusters disappearing, with the VF-25 just having six small thrusters that push you forward while in GERWALK since the legs are pointing downward. I do understand that that is what the FAST packs are for, or the Extra engines in the VF-27 and YF-29. But when I look at the VF-31, I would think, what would push this forward while in GERWALK (image credit to Projeckt-Zero-Three)

There's something on the trailing edge of the wing that looks like the kind of small thrusters the VF-25 had.

No official confirmation that's what it is, but it's a decent guess.

[Sildani]

Yeah, they’re small hexagonal vents near the wing root on the trailing edge. They’re the best candidate. 

[Bolt]

I thought the same when i hacked them off   They have a vent/thruster look. Here is top and bottom next to each other..

These will go on the wing roots of the VF-24

[Bolt]

The YF-24 is known as the  "Evolution " correct?

What  about the VF-24?

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

The YF-24 is known as the  "Evolution " correct?

The initial batch of YF-24s that were built in the 2040s were nameless.  The "Evolution" name was picked up by the second batch of YF-24s built in 2055 that Shinsei Industry produced without General Galaxy's involvement using more mature versions of the linear actuator and inertia store converter technology that caused so many problems for the original series of prototypes.

The first of the YF-24 Evolution prototypes was nicknamed the "Camel" because of the large dorsal bulge caused by the inertia store converter's placement in the airframe.

 

5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

What about the VF-24?

AFAIK, a name has not been given for Shinsei's completed production spec VF-24.

[Bolt]

Thanks @Seto Kaiba  I see a fan went with ORACLE , although they still call it a YF..

That's interesting you mention the dorsal hump. I notice It is also shorter on the YF-24 line art, than the VF-25. It must be a bulky unit stashed in there..

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Thanks @Seto Kaiba  I see a fan went with ORACLE , although they still call it a YF..

That's interesting you mention the dorsal hump. I notice It is also shorter on the YF-24 line art, than the VF-25. It must be a bulky unit stashed in there..

On production and production-intent aircraft, the ISC is a lot more compact than the original engineering test article was so it's up in the nose instead.  The prototype ISC was... bulky.  On the original YF-24 it was quite large, and even on the early YF-24 Evolution prototype it was bulky enough back there to earn the aircraft an unflattering nickname like "Camel".

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah specifies where in the nose it happens to reside... it's practically inside the cockpit, apparently being directly underneath the bulk of the hardware for the pilot's main cockpit display screen.  It's number 3 on the cutaway on page 44.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

So perhaps the VF-24 also caries the ISC in the same area as the VF-25..? As far as comparison, the YF-25 and the VF-25 are near identical on the dorsal area. I'm trying to figure out if the VF-24 would retain the shorter dorsal as seen on the YF version. Or not.. For that matter , the shield is noticeably shorter, as well as the nose. I'm not sure what the reasoning is for the shield being shorter. I get that we're talking about two different designs, but there are many similarities as well. Also, the VF-24 is supposedly the superior bird. I also get there's scant info on the VF-24 and we've yet to see an official line art version..Overall, the YF-24 design looks more squat and wider , whereas the YF/VF-25 has a more lithe and graceful look. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, Bolt said:

So perhaps the VF-24 also caries the ISC in the same area as the VF-25..?

Probably, IMO... the whole goal of the ISC is to shield the cockpit from high g-forces, so you'd naturally want it to be as close to the cockpit as possible to keep the pilot in the center of its effect.

The longer nose on the Y/VF-25 appears to be a result of enlarging the avionics bay to accommodate optional hardware like the FCF-21b precision fire control booster unit used by the VF-25G or the AE-35 electronic warfare system booster used by the RVF-25.  (Why this specialized equipment is modularized when they're still building special-purpose variants for the specific roles in question is not clear.  It might be something similar to the VF-14's overlarge airframe being leveraged to make the aircraft easier to upgrade to extend its service life or add new capabilities.)

 

13 hours ago, Bolt said:

As far as comparison, the YF-25 and the VF-25 are near identical on the dorsal area. I'm trying to figure out if the VF-24 would retain the shorter dorsal as seen on the YF version.

Very likely yes, given that what we've seen for line art has all allegedly been the final prototype demonstrated for the NUNS in 2057 that was approved for adoption as the VF-24.

 

13 hours ago, Bolt said:

Or not.. For that matter , the shield is noticeably shorter, as well as the nose. I'm not sure what the reasoning is for the shield being shorter. I get that we're talking about two different designs, but there are many similarities as well. Also, the VF-24 is supposedly the superior bird. I also get there's scant info on the VF-24 and we've yet to see an official line art version..Overall, the YF-24 design looks more squat and wider , whereas the YF/VF-25 has a more lithe and graceful look. 

Given the YF-24 is what the VF-25 and other 5th Generation VFs were derived from, it'd probably be more accurate to ask why the VF-25's shield was enlarged.

I've got two separate, but potentially related, suspicions on this front:

• On the VF-19, we saw a reduction in anti-projectile shield size between the fighter's early mass production type (VF-19A thru E) and the more robust late mass production type (VF-19F and beyond), coupled with more visible use of the pinpoint barrier to provide a comprehensive defense.  We see something similar with the YF-21/VF-22 as well as the VF-31, where they have much smaller anti-projectile shields and rely more on pinpoint barrier coverage for defense.  The VF-25 seems to rely much more on its physical shield for defense, bolstering the already formidable ASWAG advanced energy conversion armor with a bolt-on plate of additional armor that nearly doubles this shield's thickness.  Given the VF-24's technological superiority, it's possible it relies more on the pinpoint barrier where the VF-25 either has less generator output or needed that power in other parts of the airframe.
• Given the indicated technological superiority of Earth and the VF-24, it's possible the VF-25's shield was enlarged because the armor materials available for the shield and the rest of the fighter were inferior to the original YF-24 Evolution spec so they felt compelled to improve their defensive ability with a great big bolted-on slab of ASWAG.

[Bolt]

Excellent points. Thanks

[Bolt]

From VFMF VF-25 Messiah-In the top plate (#2) a squadron of VF-171 Radome units are sporting what appear to be sound boosters. These look to be a different type than the sound boosters we have seen on the VF-25G in Macross Frontier. 

Are these indeed an older or newer version of sound booster from what we've seen in Frontier?

Would this particular squadron be participating in a special operation? And if so , who's sounds are they boosting?

Aside from the typical Radome package and accompanying software, would these VF-171's need additional hardware/software to run the sound boosters? (Aside from the SB's themselves that is)

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

45 minutes ago, Bolt said:

In the top plate (#2) a squadron of VF-171 Radome units are sporting what appear to be sound boosters. These look to be a different type than the sound boosters we have seen on the VF-25G in Macross Frontier. 

Are these indeed an older or newer version of sound booster from what we've seen in Frontier?

Those are fold boosters.  

If you recall, in Macross Frontier's sixth episode we see RVF-171s sortieing for advance recon ahead of the Frontier fleet's mission to reinforce the survivors of the Macross Galaxy fleet.  Because the Aegis Pack gets in the way of center-mounting the booster, all the RVF-171s that deployed mounted one fold booster on the top of each wing.  (About 12:40 in the episode.)

 

45 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Aside from the typical Radome package and accompanying software, would these VF-171's need additional hardware/software to run the sound boosters? (Aside from the SB's themselves that is)

Sound boosters were normally for performers, so they needed the Sound Energy System to power them in the first place.

[Bolt]

Ah so..

Not familiar with that style of fold booster. Those are the same as the ones in Frontier? I'll check it out..

Edited August 31, 2019 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Ah so..

Not familiar with that style of fold booster. Those are the same as the ones in Frontier? I'll check it out..

Yeah it just looks a bit odd because the art that was done for Master File is lit more realistically than the series.

[TehPW]

Not a fan of the music choice... but I was intrigued. I've never seen the movies in their entirety but I've seen clips. I did not know this part: the massed engagement against (the or A) Vajra queen nest... that was inside the remains of a DYRL-style Gol Boddole Zer-class MF (another, clear slap towards SLDF:M and HG that continues to taint it's legacy)  . What was the sequence of events for this?     

[Bolt]

Brera makes the killing blow but Alto is rocking the Tornado package quite well..

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, TehPW said:

Not a fan of the music choice... but I was intrigued. I've never seen the movies in their entirety but I've seen clips. I did not know this part: the massed engagement against (the or A) Vajra queen nest... that was inside the remains of a DYRL-style Gol Boddole Zer-class MF [...]. What was the sequence of events for this?     

This is from Macross Frontier: the Wings of Goodbye, about twenty-five minutes in.

This was a joint offensive on the part of the Macross Frontier fleet's NUNS and SMS... a preemptive attack on a Vajra hive that was close enough to potentially threaten the Macross Frontier fleet.  The advance reconnaissance suggested that the Vajra had destroyed a Boddole Zer-class mobile fortress and made their nest in the wreckage approximately 50 years before being encountered by the Frontier fleet.  Much like how the first big battle in Macross Frontier (Ep.7) occurred concurrently with Sheryl's live concert and the fold songs from Sheryl reached the battlefield via her earring, Ranka's fold songs similarly reach the battlefield and disorient the Vajra during this offensive (from her live concert where she performs Rainbow Colored Bear and Love is a Dogfight).  This battle was pretty much the point where Alto started to understand that the Vajra were Not So Different, witnessing the soldiers catching and trying to save their injured comrades while he was fighting inside the Bishop-class Vajra hive ship.  Alto gets badly injured in the battle as well, so he and Sheryl have a moment after he's medevac'd and returned to the fleet.

(Shortly after his wounds are treated, the Macross Frontier NUNS and Frontier Government move against the Galaxy fleet's conspirators with Special Forces troops using weapons designed for anti-cyborg combat and arrest Sheryl for espionage at the same time.

 

 

4 hours ago, TehPW said:

(another, clear slap towards SLDF:M and HG that continues to taint it's legacy)

That's... quite an assumption, to say the least.

Macross: Do You Remember Love? designs were essentially supplanting the TV series ones before Harmony Gold ever became a thorn in Big West's side.  Kawamori and co. just seem to like the Do You Remember Love? designs better, with Macross II: Lovers Again, Macross Plus, and Macross 7 all opting to use DYRL? designs over TV ones years before HG began to interfere with Macross licensing.  (IIRC, Macross II was essentially the only time a SDF Macross Zentradi mothership ever shows up outside the original series.  The design was reused for the spacedock for the Macross Cannon-class gunships.)

[Bolt]

VF-2SS will out maneuver the VF-31 Siegfried ?

Firepower wise, with the armored parts, perhaps the VF-31 Siegfried out classes it?

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, Bolt said:

VF-2SS will out maneuver the VF-31 Siegfried ?

Did you mean VF-25S or VF-2SS?

Remember, the VF-31 Siegfrieds are all one-of-a-kind ace custom aircraft that were specially modified to improve their performance with technology from the YF-29 and YF-30.  Their performance isn't reflective of the capabilities of the production-intent VF-31A/B Kairos the Brisingr Alliance NUNS is set to adopt in 2069-2070.

I'd expect the VF-31 Custom Siegfrieds are probably more maneuverable than the stock VF-25, thanks to the greater maximum instantaneous thrust from their derated FF-3001/FC2 engines attached to comparable thrust vectoring nozzles and thrust reverser collars.  They're specially tuned for low-altitude maneuverability because they're designed to be flying a close air support role to protect Walkure.

By the same token, I'd expect the stock VF-25 to be more maneuverable than the stock VF-31 because of the compromises inherent in adopting a close-coupled canard delta wing vs. the VF-25's variable-sweep wing.

 

13 hours ago, Bolt said:

Firepower wise, with the armored parts, perhaps the VF-31 Siegfried out classes it?

Well... the Siegfried's Armored Pack definitely carries a greater quantity of munitions, but I'm not sure that numbers necessarily covers quality in this instance.

To compare:

The Siegfried w/ Armored Pack is about 4,500kg lighter than the Messiah w/ Armored Pack (47.5t vs 52t).
The Siegfried w/ Armored Pack is carrying 500kg more fuel than the Messiah w/ Armored Pack (15.5t vs 15t).
The Siegfried w/ Armored Pack has 1G more of acceleration at a full load than the Messiah w/ Armored Pack (12.5G+ vs 11.5G+).
The Siegfried w/ Armored Pack has 410kN less booster thrust than the Messiah w/ Armored Pack (2,530kN vs 2,940kN).
The Siegfried w/ Armored Pack has 100kN more total thrust than the Messiah w/ Armored Pack (6,280kN vs 6,180kN) due to its greater main engine thrust (1,875kNx2 vs 1,620kNx2).
The Siegfried w/ Armored Pack has a marginally higher (1.3627) thrust to weight ratio than the Messiah w/ Armored Pack (13.4812 vs 12.1185).

The Siegfried's Armored Pack adds 484 micro-missiles, a pair of 40mm beam cannons, a pair of 35mm rotary cannons, and a 105mm twin beam cannon turret.

The Messiah's Armored Pack adds 244 micro-missiles, 30 anti-armor rockets, 4 22mm beam machineguns, and 2 57mm beam cannons with optional autonomous fire capability, 

The Messiah's Armored Pack, however, is noted to be composed of the ASWAG Advanced Energy Conversion Armor that offers battleship-grade defensive capability, whereas there is no special notation made about the armor of the Siegfried's Armored Pack... which suggests (in conjunction with ASWAG's noted HIGH price tag) that the APS-31 is probably made of conventional energy converting armor or composite armor and thus offers less defensive strength.

Without the greater thrust of the Siegfried custom's non-stock engines, the difference in acceleration performance all but disappears (it shrinks to a 0.3752 advantage to the VF-31) and the key difference appears to be simply that the APS-31 goes all-in on close-range firepower where the APS-25 offers a better balance of offensive and defensive capability.  I'd also note the APS-31 seems to prevent the Siegfried from using gunpods while it's equipped, while the APS-25 doesn't prevent the Messiah from equipping a gunpod on top of the other armaments.

[Bolt]

Ya. I meant the VF-2.. chronology in universe , it's as "new" as the VF-31 Siegfried (almost). Isn't it?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Ya. I meant the VF-2.. chronology in universe , it's as "new" as the VF-31 Siegfried (almost). Isn't it?

Well, no... by the time we see it in the Macross II: Lovers Again OVA, it's already got ten years as the Spacy's main VF under its belt and the underlying platform it was developed from is pushing twenty.  The original VF-2 was introduced in 2072 and its derivative space-optimized variant was introduced in 2081 and first saw combat in 2082.

The Siegfried is not a mass production aircraft, it's an aftermarket ace custom that's too expensive for even a megacorporation to build more than a handful of... after massively economizing its upgrades.  The production specification VF-31, the VF-31 Kairos, is set to be adopted by the Brisingr Alliance NUNS in 2069 or 2070.

Specs-wise, it's difficult to compare the VF-2SS to the VF-31 or any other main continuity VF because the pace of technological advancement is wildly different between the two settings.  In terms of raw flight performance, the VF-2SS is only on par with the 3rd Generation VFs of the main Macross continuity.  Technologically, there are areas it lags far behind the 4th or 5th Generation VFs of the main continuity and areas where it blew right past them.  The Valkyrie II's at the level of engine efficiency comparable to the 4th and 5th Gen VFs where it doesn't really need FAST Packs anymore, and is using them as a convenient way to package a large emount of weaponry.  Its actual engine output is low, about on par for thrust-to-weight ratio with the VF-11 at between 6 and 7.  It does, however, have VERY powerful generators that wring an enormous amount of energy out of its fuel to the extent that it can casually deploy pure railgun weapons.  The main Macross continuity VFs are still at the point where "railguns" are hybrids which employ chemical propellants for initial acceleration and electromagnetic force for additional acceleration to achieve their great stopping power.  The Valkyrie II has pure railguns for its regular and heavy gunpods, as well as a large anti-capital ship railgun.  The actual quantity of armaments the Valkyrie II carries is only about 1/4 to 1/8th what a 5th Gen Armored VF has though, and is only slightly more than what an old VF-1 Strike Valkyrie would carry.  One, possibly two, gunpods, 54 micro-missiles, 6 long-range anti-ship missiles, two beam cannons, and a big anti-capital ship cannon... plus five bits.

I'd expect a 5th Gen Armored to wreck the everloving sh*t out of a Valkyrie II with its superior maneuverability and the simple quantity of firepower it can bring to bear.  The only way I could see it going differently is if the Valkyrie II got off a shot with its anti-capital ship railgun, which even in the OVA is like using a sledgehammer to shell a peanut when used against a mecha.

[Bolt]

22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

By the same token, I'd expect the stock VF-25 to be more maneuverable than the stock VF-31 because of the compromises inherent in adopting a close-coupled canard delta wing vs. the VF-25's variable-sweep wing.

Interesting point. The YF-24 is a delta wing also. Would the VF-25 be more maneuverable than the 24? Is it the close-coupled canard thing that puts the 31 at a disadvantage?

 

22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Messiah's Armored Pack, however, is noted to be composed of the ASWAG Advanced Energy Conversion Armor that offers battleship-grade defensive capability, whereas there is no special notation made about the armor of the Siegfried's Armored Pack...

I would think, as one of a kind ace customs, the Siegfried would have all the whistles and bells..

Based on your comparison,  and the numbers, the VF-25 is still quite the contender 

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Specs-wise, it's difficult to compare the VF-2SS to the VF-31 or any other main continuity VF because the pace of technological advancement is wildly different between the two settings.

Ya, it's like comparing mech from another franchise, isn't it?

 

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd expect a 5th Gen Armored to wreck the everloving sh*t out of a Valkyrie II with its superior maneuverability and the simple quantity of firepower it can bring to bear.  The only way I could see it going differently is if the Valkyrie II got off a shot with its anti-capital ship railgun, which even in the OVA is like using a sledgehammer to shell a peanut when used against a mecha.

Roger that.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Interesting point. The YF-24 is a delta wing also. Would the VF-25 be more maneuverable than the 24?

Probably not, since VFs rely heavily on thrust vectoring for their extreme maneuverability and the VF-24's got a LOT more engine power to play with than the VF-25.

 

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Is it the close-coupled canard thing that puts the 31 at a disadvantage?

Quite the opposite, the close-coupled canard delta is a design feature aimed at mitigating the disadvantages of the delta wing design by stabilizing the airflow over the wing to help improve stability and maneuverability by manipulating the airflow over the main wing.

 

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

I would think, as one of a kind ace customs, the Siegfried would have all the whistles and bells..

Well, there are limits to what the Χάος Valkyrie Works can do...

Χάος Valkyrie Works aren't building new aircraft from scratch, they're taking trial production VF-31A Kairos airframes and modifying them to create the VF-31 Siegfrieds.  They can't simply ignore the structural safety limits of the VF-31's design, or they'd create an aircraft that would literally fly itself to pieces.  Likewise, cost is an unavoidable limiting factor for a custom VF's development.  Χάος's Brisingr globular cluster branch headquartered on Ragna isn't exactly flush with cash, and while 5th Generation VFs are quite expensive already, a lot of the high-performance hardware they need for the upgrade to the Siegfried spec is EXPENSIVE.  The ultra-large, ultra-high purity fold quartz they need to make the fold amps and fold wave systems go is EXTREMELY expensive due to its rarity.

Spoiler

One of the few interesting details in the otherwise-disappointing Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried is a remark that indicates the Siegfried's design found a way to make the same piece of ultra-high purity fold quartz pull double duty in the fold amps AND the fold wave system... which saved a fair amount of money.

The advanced energy conversion armor used by the VF-25 is also noted to be very expensive, to the extent that the only part of the VF-25 that actually uses it is the anti-projectile shield and the Armored Pack that makes more liberal use of the material is restricted to squadron leaders and/or ace pilots due to the enormous costs involved.  Even the YF-29 is apparently extremely sparing with its use of ASWAG, achieving the same defensive capability across most of the airframe by doubling the thickness of its regular energy conversion armor and then doubling the power supply to that double thickness of armor for 4x the defensive capability... approximately rivaling the Armored Pack's defensive strength.

 

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Based on your comparison,  and the numbers, the VF-25 is still quite the contender 

Yeah, the VF-31 was really misleading out of the gate since what we originally got specs for was the Siegfried and that was not a production aircraft.  The Kairos and Messiah are on very similar levels, despite the Kairos being developed a decade after the Messiah.

 

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Ya, it's like comparing mech from another franchise, isn't it?

Very much so, yes. 

Macross II: Lovers Again's "parallel world" continuity is rather Gundam-like, which may have something to do with several of its creative staff having come from Gundam projects like Char's Counterattack.  The increases in flight performance are more gradual but other technologies advance at a much faster pace... and platforms that became legacy weapons in the main Macross timeline stuck around because they're constantly fighting the same enemy.  (The Spacy has a war with rogue Zentradi fleets an average of once a decade, and has gotten so good at it that they're thoroughly used to tabling the Zentradi in round one and taking their sh*t.)

[Bolt]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross II: Lovers Again's "parallel world" continuity is rather Gundam-like, which may have something to do with several of its creative staff having come from Gundam projects like Char's Counterattack. 

Then I guess we're lucky the VF2SS didn't deploy funnels

 

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... and platforms that became legacy weapons in the main Macross timeline stuck around because they're constantly fighting the same enemy

Spacey was rather lax about their encounter with the Marduk. But i still didn't like how much they depended on the "minmay attack". 

[JB0]

6 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Then I guess we're lucky the VF2SS didn't deploy funnels

 

On 9/6/2019 at 4:46 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

The actual quantity of armaments the Valkyrie II carries is only about 1/4 to 1/8th what a 5th Gen Armored VF has though, and is only slightly more than what an old VF-1 Strike Valkyrie would carry.  One, possibly two, gunpods, 54 micro-missiles, 6 long-range anti-ship missiles, two beam cannons, and a big anti-capital ship cannon... plus five bits.

(emphasis mine)

Luckier than you realized.

[Bolt]

On 9/6/2019 at 2:46 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

The only way I could see it going differently is if the Valkyrie II got off a shot with its anti-capital ship railgun, which even in the OVA is like using a sledgehammer to shell a peanut when used against a mecha.

There is that tho..

[Seto Kaiba]

58 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Then I guess we're lucky the VF2SS didn't deploy funnels

The Macross II: Lovers Again timeline's version of the VF-4 did have funnels.

Well, Macross: Eternal Love Song called them funnels... but they were computer controlled like the GN Fangs of Gundam's Anno Domini era rather than being controlled by the thoughts of the pilot.

The VF-2SS had bits, as noted previously.

The distinction between the two is the same as in Gundam.  The VF-4's funnels needed to reconnect to the fighter to recharge while the VF-2SS's bits had built-in generators so they didn't need to dock with the fighter for power.

 

58 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Spacey was rather lax about their encounter with the Marduk. But i still didn't like how much they depended on the "minmay attack". 

No "e" in Spacy.  

How else are you going to fight an enemy that will ALWAYS outnumber you thousands if not millions to one?

The Spacy had a strategy that worked, that was repeatable, and that kept the loss of life on both sides to a minimum while also kicking open the door to turning their enemies into new allies in the near future.

[Bolt]

Ah. Didn't realize that's what you meant by "bits"..

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, Bolt said:

Ah. Didn't realize that's what you meant by "bits"..

Yeah, that's one of a number of Gundam touches in Macross II's timeline.

The VF-4's beam rifle looks suspiciously like the Zeta Gundam's, and Feff is basically a Char clone with Ishtar as his Artesia.  He's even got a bright red custom mecha with a command horn.

[Bolt]

The standard VF-25 has the ASWAG shield. Is this in lieu of a pin point barrier system?

Does the VF-31 Kairos employ a pin point barrier system?

And the YF-29 is ASWAG'd x4  . Does that  also mean it doesn't employ pin point barrier systems?

 

[azrael]

All VFs, post-2040, have a Pin-point barrier system as standard equipment. The VF-25, VF-31 Kairos and YF-29 have pin-point barrier systems. 

[Bolt]

Thanks!

I figured since the YF-19 & YF-21, Pin point barriers were becoming standardized. But the need for additional armor still seems to persist..

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

The standard VF-25 has the ASWAG shield. Is this in lieu of a pin point barrier system?

Nah, all 4th Gen and later VFs have miniaturized pinpoint barrier systems.  The inclusion of pinpoint barrier systems on a VF was a major design goal/requirement in the Advanced Variable Fighter program that produced the first 4th Generation VFs (in Macross Plus, the YF-19 and YF-21 prototypes for the VF-19 and VF-22 respectively).  Other design goals for the 4th Generation included a 3rd Gen active stealth system, thermonuclear reaction burst turbines, next-gen super AI avionics (ARIEL), and native support for fold boosters.

The VF-25 adopted ASWAG advanced energy conversion armor for its anti-projectile shield to improve the robustness of the shield itself in the event it needed to stop a shot that powered through the barrier (or the barrier was committed elsewhere).

On screen in Macross Frontier, the VF-25 mainly used its barrier offensively to reinforce its combat blade... though Alto did use it defensively in several high-visibility scenes in Macross Frontier: Itsuari no Utahime when equipped with the Tornado Pack.

 

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

Does the VF-31 Kairos employ a pin point barrier system?

Very prominently, to the extent that I'm actually a bit befuddled that you asked.

It's probably the most prolific user of pinpoint barriers onscreen since the VF-19s in Macross 7.

Hayate's VF-31 loses a number of arms to shots from the heavy quantum beam gunpods of the Draken IIIs when his barrier can't absorb all the energy of the shot, and there's that very drawn-out scene in Hayate's first real combat sortie where we see him tank fire from a Var'd VF-171 on his barriers and watch the strength indicator for the barriers tick down on his cockpit display.

 

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

And the YF-29 is ASWAG'd x4. Does that  also mean it doesn't employ pin point barrier systems?

Not ASWAG'd, the YF-29 achieves comparable defensive capability to the ASWAG-based Armored Pack for the VF-25 by applying a double thickness (vs. the VF-25) of conventional energy conversion armor and operating it at twice the power.

It also makes rather extensive use of its pinpoint barrier in combat.

[Bolt]

With current fold booster technology. Single boosters can do a round trip? 5th gen VF's still require fold boosters?

Fold quartz is used to enhance offensive and defensive capabilities ? As well as manipulate or produce fold waves? I know it's crazy valuable and the most advanced VF's have it well integrated into their airframe or other components..