Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Seto Kaiba]

Lurching awkwardly back in the general direction of the topic we were on... 

Given that economics has come up a number of times in recent-ish Macross stories, I'd really like to see some story actually delve a little into how interstellar commerce works in Macross.  Windermere IV was apparently upset enough about its economy to declare war on the New UN Government, Macross-29's is in the toilet and hoping cultural exports can save the fleet, the Brisingr Alliance is stagnating thanks to its isolated location and desperate for exports.

It seems odd, in hindsight, for these theoretically self-sufficient fleets to have this kind of trouble... though I guess it would be a bit difficult to find work for tens of millions of people in a pure self-sufficiency environment.

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

EDIT: And Seto got in before I finished writing, ever the poised one. Speaking of, will you be at SDcon again this year Seto? I plan to again, after all it's a pretty short trip for me anyway. 

I must've had a heck of a head start, given that I wrote that one on my phone.  My WPM on that POS with autocorrect on feels like it's somewhere south of 1.

I'm hoping to be at SDCon again this year.  Haven't booked anything yet, but hopefully will soon.  It's been a weird year.

[Tochiro]

6 hours ago, Bolt said:

I'm glad to hear a more positive outlook here, concerning Musicalture. Was this project written or directed by Kawamori San?

He was officially credited as Supervisor of the production so, as with most Macross productions, nothing in it escaped his oversight to some degree :-)

2 hours ago, kajnrig said:

What even is this Musiculture thing you're talking about?

https://www.decultureshock.com/macross-the-musicalture-report-1/

In short, the economic issues of the 29 fleet were an excuse for the story to introduce the Miss Macross Contest 29 into the production. 

The ending, rather than being “superficially” happy, was in fact the overriding message and point of the production and was very much in line with Kawamori’s general direction and philosophy regarding the Macross franchise as a whole. It was uplifting and gave hope for the future. After all, if Vigo can go from Neo-Zentran rebellion leader to professional backup dancer touring the galaxy, then surely anything is possible :-)

Edited August 10, 2019 by Tochiro

[Master Dex]

30 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I must've had a heck of a head start, given that I wrote that one on my phone.  My WPM on that POS with autocorrect on feels like it's somewhere south of 1.

I'm hoping to be at SDCon again this year.  Haven't booked anything yet, but hopefully will soon.  It's been a weird year.

I was on my phone too, we probably just balanced out.

Yeah I haven't booked yet either, but I'm expecting I'll be there anyway. 

[Bolt]

33 minutes ago, Tochiro said:

https://www.decultureshock.com/macross-the-musicalture-report-1/

 Wow. Another must see it to believe it! Live theater Macross!

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Windermere IV was apparently upset enough about its economy to declare war on the New UN Government, 

And also, in hindsight, how could Windermere really think they could bring NUNS to its knees?

-Var syndrome- 

-Ketchup boy singing through the protoculture ship-

-Star Singer clone captured and amplifying Ketchup boy-

I guess they decided they had to try, but they really doubled down, and lost. 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Given that economics has come up a number of times in recent-ish Macross stories, I'd really like to see some story actually delve a little into how interstellar commerce works in Macross.

As far as Windermere goes,  its gonna be real bad now,  isn't it? Unless Ultimate Live has an optimistic twist in mind for them.

Chances are, Windermere may not be featured in the next Macross movie and we all might have to continue guessing as to their fate..

[Seto Kaiba]

32 minutes ago, Bolt said:

And also, in hindsight, how could Windermere really think they could bring NUNS to its knees?

Bringing the New UN Government to its knees probably wasn't in the original game plan.  King Grammier VI's goal seems to have been to build his own New UN Government with blackjack and hookers in the form of Windermere's "Starwind Sector", encompassing the entire Brisingr globular cluster, and use that greater leverage in future treaty negotiations.

Roid's delusions of manifest destiny don't seem to have actually included conquest either, but rather a less-evil version of Grace's instrumentality-esque plan to unify the minds of everyone in the galaxy to eliminate conflict.  Given a few of the things he says, he also seems to have wanted to use it as a way to vicariously - or perhaps actually - lengthen the lives of the Windermereans.

Barring actually using the Delta Wave System the way it was intended, I don't think there really was a realistic option for Windermere to defeat the New UN Forces.  They don't have the manpower to handle even the relatively under-equipped and under-funded Brisingr Alliance local New UN Forces, never mind the ones that've already adopted 5th Gen VFs or that are better funded due to more active economies.  Assuming, of course, that the ancient Protoculture technology didn't succumb to the expected failure mode of burning out a lot of brains across the galaxy.  They've got some excellent dogfighting VFs, but they just DO NOT have the manpower to challenge the NUNS on a level footing when the average soldier's life expectancy for Windermere is 10 years or so vs. the 50 or so for a human.  That's a pretty big difference in experience and training that we saw paying dividends when Draken IIIs were getting taken down by more experienced pilots in VF-171-II's.

(That, I suppose, was one of the more satisfying moments from the New UN Spacy in Delta... they've finally reached the point where they take it as read that if the Protoculture had sealed and buried something, it's probably a stupidly dangerous thing they regret making and that the safest means of disposal are "crush it into a singularity and send it on a one way trip to another dimension".  They're becoming genre savvy.)

 

32 minutes ago, Bolt said:

As far as Windermere goes,  its gonna be real bad now,  isn't it? Unless Ultimate Live has an optimistic twist in mind for them.

Chances are, Windermere may not be featured in the next Macross movie and we all might have to continue guessing as to their fate..

Yeah, it's probably not going to be great since King Grammier VI and King Heinz wasted a lot of manpower and resources on a futile attempt to conquer the Brisingr cluster, and in so doing got many of Windermere IV's brightest young soldiers killed and wrecked the planet's remaining interstellar trade relations.  

Kawamori being Kawamori we won't be subjected to seeing them face realistic consequences like being occupied by the New UN Government now that King Ketchup's one trick is not viable anymore, but they're not likely to be having a good time.  They only had two marketable exports (fold quartz and food) and the market for one of them (food) dried up and died after it was discovered that was how they were triggering Var outbreaks and making the local New UN Spacy susceptible to mind control while the other is still heavily restricted by the New UN Government.

Now that the Brisingr Alliance and New UN Government know the Epsilon Foundation was dealing with Windermere IV under the table, their ability to maintain their armed forces isn't likely to last all that long either since pulling out the Draken III's full performance seems to be rather damaging to the airframe.

Since the little available material for Absolute Live has mentioned a new threat, I'm guessing Windermere will be Sir-Not-Appearing-In-This-Film.

[JB0]

13 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(That, I suppose, was one of the more satisfying moments from the New UN Spacy in Delta... they've finally reached the point where they take it as read that if the Protoculture had sealed and buried something, it's probably a stupidly dangerous thing they regret making and that the safest means of disposal are "crush it into a singularity and send it on a one way trip to another dimension".  They're becoming genre savvy.)

Kinda makes you wonder about the protoculture, though. They coulda dropped these thing into stars, folded them into supernovas, filled 'em up with antimatter, or stuffed 'em down the gullet of a black hole, but decided "nah, a pile of dirt'll be fine."

 

I'll give them a pass on the protodevlin, but the Delta battleship shoulda been rendered inert before they disposed of it.

 

... 

 

But then, their idea of safe genetic testing in 7 WAS "spring-loaded spikes in the floor collect ample blood samples, it'll be fine". I probably shouldn't be surprised they just buried their doomsday weapons under dirt.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Kinda makes you wonder about the protoculture, though. They coulda dropped these thing into stars, folded them into supernovas, filled 'em up with antimatter, or stuffed 'em down the gullet of a black hole, but decided "nah, a pile of dirt'll be fine."

 

I'll give them a pass on the protodevlin, but the Delta battleship shoulda been rendered inert before they disposed of it.

To be entirely fair to them, they did do everything in their power to make the planet they sealed the Protodeviln on uninhabitable via the entropy control field and on Uroboros they enforced their "keep out" sign by putting artificial fold faults around the entire planet that were severe enough to cut it off from the rest of the galaxy (the Uroboros aurora), having additional fold fault barriers around the place where they sealed the Fold Evil, and then filling the facilities maintaining the seal on the Fold Evil with self-replicating bio-technological insectoid living weapons to violently remove any potential intruders.

They may just not have had the resources to put something suitably nasty around the Sigur Berrentzs, given that they were supposedly at the very brink of extinction when they were withdrawing to the Brisingr cluster.  They did bury the entire Delta Wave System in fold space where no idiot should've been able to just dig it up.

All in all, I'd say they got progressively better about their Keep Out signs and precautions.

 

5 minutes ago, JB0 said:

But then, their idea of safe genetic testing in 7 WAS "spring-loaded spikes in the floor collect ample blood samples, it'll be fine". I probably shouldn't be surprised they just buried their doomsday weapons under dirt.

Well, these ARE the same people whose answer to wanting an army to fight their wars for them was "GIANT CLONES!".  The godzilla threshold is inherently meaningless to them.

[Bolt]

Burying something like that does kind of  lead one to believe, it was a possible future option.."just in case we need that later.."

29 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Now that the Brisingr Alliance and New UN Government know the Epsilon Foundation was dealing with Windermere IV under the table, their ability to maintain their armed forces isn't likely to last all that long either since pulling out the Draken III's full performance seems to be rather damaging to the airframe.

I wonder what, if any  consequences for the Epsilon Foundation may emerge.  Didn't realize  the Draken III's had been pushed that far and hard. 

Perhaps Windermere and the Brisinger cluster will all be in danger and , in some way , all will be forgiven, once they've (Windermere)helped NUNS defeat this new threat. Ketchup boy does sing, remember, he could be the 6th..

[sketchley]

17 hours ago, kajnrig said:

What even is this Musiculture thing you're talking about?

Here's the Macross Chronicle article on it: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRgoods/08MacrossTheMusicalture.php

It's buried in the Goods—Events section of the encyclopedia: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRgoods/08MacrossTheMusicalture.php

[Seto Kaiba]

On 8/10/2019 at 8:17 PM, Bolt said:

Burying something like that does kind of  lead one to believe, it was a possible future option.."just in case we need that later.."

Either that or that they didn't have the resources necessary to destroy it properly... as was the case with the Protodeviln, and apparently the Fold Evil.

(Or bringing sufficient force to bear would've been needlessly destructive, involving destroying planets or other potentially-showy and attention-getting methods that would otherwise attract the attention of the Zentradi and/or Supervision Army.)

 

On 8/10/2019 at 8:17 PM, Bolt said:

I wonder what, if any consequences for the Epsilon Foundation may emerge.  

It'll be interesting, since the ship designs they're peddling are clearly General Galaxy designs that've been modified somewhat and they'd purchased the SV Works from General Galaxy.

If it comes out that they've been involved in the Var crisis from the beginning and were originally working on ways to weaponize it, things could go poorly for them.

 

On 8/10/2019 at 8:17 PM, Bolt said:

Didn't realize the Draken III's had been pushed that far and hard. 

It comes up at one point early in the series, when the Aerial Knights return to Windermere and Keith is told the power system on his Draken III is shot and he'll need to use a different aircraft while they repair it.  The Siegfrieds have similar issues, as alluded to by Makina and Reina talking about how Hayate beats the hell out of his while Messer's more refined style puts less strain on the unit.

 

On 8/10/2019 at 8:17 PM, Bolt said:

Perhaps Windermere and the Brisinger cluster will all be in danger and , in some way , all will be forgiven, once they've (Windermere)helped NUNS defeat this new threat. Ketchup boy does sing, remember, he could be the 6th..

... Admiral Ackbar, paging Admiral Gial Ackbar... it's time for your line sir.

(Seriously, I'd rather not see Macross go the Fate route and throw a trap into the mix.  I'm not about to kinkshame anybody, but Macross is plenty weird as it is IMO.)

[Bolt]

48 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It comes up at one point early in the series, when the Aerial Knights return to Windermere and Keith is told the power system on his Draken III is shot and he'll need to use a different aircraft while they repair it.  The Siegfrieds have similar issues, as alluded to by Makina and Reina talking about how Hayate beats the hell out of his while Messer's more refined style puts less strain on the unit.

I don't recall , what was the service life, so far of the Drakens, as of Delta? Similarly, how long had the Siegfried's been around at that point? I would have thought most VF's would have been built to handle serious or rough  handling at this point..

52 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... Admiral Ackbar, paging Admiral Gial Ackbar... it's time for your line sir.

Lol. I love that line..

[Seto Kaiba]

37 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I don't recall , what was the service life, so far of the Drakens, as of Delta?

They were introduced somewhere between Windermere IV's secession from the New UN Government in 2060 and their first offensive against Al Shahal in 2067, but beyond that it's not entirely clear.  The White Knight of the Black Wing makes it seem like they were adopted only a year or two, maybe three at the outside, before Windermere launched its second war on the New UN Government.  Their first use in actual combat, and the first actual combat sortie of most of the Aerial Knights in the series, was the Al Shahal operation.

 

37 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Similarly, how long had the Siegfried's been around at that point?

Less than two years, given that Arad Molders was using a VF-31A Kairos in ep21's flashback to Walkure's unsuccessful early operations in 2065.

Arad's VF-31A was likely one of the very first VF-31s built, if not a prototype as alleged by Master File, given that the Kawamori indicated he envisioned the VF-31 as being 2-3 years from adoption by the New UN Forces in the Brisingr cluster... in 2069 or 2070.

 

37 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I would have thought most VF's would have been built to handle serious or rough  handling at this point..

It's not 100% clear why Keith's Sv-262Hs Draken III was having durability issues from his use/abuse of the fold reheat system since it was designed with it... and it'd be a really bizarre oversight if the Hs variant wasn't stressed for the greater output of its more potent fold reheat system given that it is also a production variant.

The VF-31 Custom Siegfried units produced by Xaos Valkyrie Works for the Xaos 3rd Fighter Wing's Delta Flight had durability issues because they were modified from the stock VF-31A Kairos trial production units that Xaos was testing on behalf of the Brisingr Alliance NUNS.  The VF-31's airframe was designed for the stresses imposed by the FF-3001A engines that its specs called for.  The Siegfried customs swapped those FF-3001A engines for a detuned version of the YF-30's FF-3001/FC2 engines, which provided 14% more maximum instantaneous thrust in normal operation and 31.1% more thrust when the fold wave system was active.  Between that and Hayate's dance-inspired combat style and wind riding, it put a LOT more stress on the airframe.

[AN/ALQ128]

13 hours ago, Bolt said:

 Similarly, how long had the Siegfried's been around at that point? I would have thought most VF's would have been built to handle serious or rough  handling at this point..

I'd also assume with the ISC+EX-Gear, a careless pilot might not be able to feel the huge amounts of stress imparted by some of their more frantic maneuvers.

At least with the older, non ISC equipped VF's, a pilot might be dissuaded from treating their airframe like crap because they'd feel it too (although I don't think that stopped pilots like Shin from abusing the hell out of the VF-0, to the constant consternation of the maintenance crew)

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

I'd also assume with the ISC+EX-Gear, a careless pilot might not be able to feel the huge amounts of stress imparted by some of their more frantic maneuvers.

There is that, yeah... the improved Inertia Store Converter on the VF-31 Siegfried customs insulates the cockpit from up to 29.5G, so the pilot isn't going to have an intuitive feeling for how much stress is on the airframe at any given time.  It's kind of a necessary evil since otherwise the pilot would have almost no chance of withstanding the intense g-forces that the 5th Generation VFs are capable of producing with their monstrously high engine outputs.  Hayate's unconventional dance-inspired fighting style is full of maneuvers that impose high asymmetric g-loads on the airframe.

 

9 hours ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

At least with the older, non ISC equipped VF's, a pilot might be dissuaded from treating their airframe like crap because they'd feel it too (although I don't think that stopped pilots like Shin from abusing the hell out of the VF-0, to the constant consternation of the maintenance crew)

Not that many of them had much of a choice... it wasn't really until the 4th Generation's initial batch of prototypes (YF-19 and YF-21) that VFs finally reached the point where the thrust to weight ratios crossed the 10:1 point and loss of control due to high g-loads became an issue.  Rolling that back a bit to the point where VFs could still benefit from the improvements made in the thermonuclear reaction burst turbines without pushing the fleshy meats in the pilot's seat to the breaking point was the main goal of the VF-171.

[Lexomatic]

On 8/10/2019 at 5:41 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Given that economics has come up a number of times in recent-ish Macross stories, I'd really like to see some story actually delve a little into how interstellar commerce works in Macross.

As a professional macroeconomic librarian, I agree.

Of course, I'm also the kind of fan who when reading "Dragonriders of Pern" wants more colonized-planet geology and agriculture and fewer dragons, and is disappointed that on-screen "Star Trek" has never provided a clear explanation of how legal authority is divided between the federal government and individual planets or planetary alliances.

[Bolt]

Good point..

[Bolt]

So i was eating pineapples the other day and came across these.. we're familiar with the NP-FAD-23 Fast Packs for the VF-25 series (and maybe VF-24 & VF-19 Advanced..)

But I'm not familiar with these additional variants. Any info on these and ordinance types?

[Seto Kaiba]

24 minutes ago, Bolt said:

So i was eating pineapples the other day and came across these..

They weren't in any kind of salad form, were they?  That can be terribly dangerous.

 

24 minutes ago, Bolt said:

we're familiar with the NP-FAD-23 Fast Packs for the VF-25 series (and maybe VF-24 & VF-19 Advanced..)

But I'm not familiar with these additional variants. Any info on these and ordinance types?

Is it just me, or is what you've got there in Chinese instead of Japanese?

Anyhoo, as you probably surmised from the fact that there are numbered captions on the art, yes there is some modest amount of info.  

From left to right they are an expanded capacity version of the standard NP-FAD-23 option pack with more propellant for its large boosters and the same missile capacity, a failed atmospheric-use Strike Pack concept, and two alternative takes on a traditional Strike Pack-like configuration #3 being internally powered and #4 being recharged off the engines.  As per Master File's usual, it describes the guns as chemical laser cannons instead of the particle beam cannons that Strike Packs are in the official setting materials.

[Bolt]

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Is it just me, or is what you've got there in Chinese instead of Japanese?

 

Ya sorry, i took several pictures of my VFMF copy and they really sucked. So i went hunting online for something with better picture quality..

So..

no.1 has more propellant so as to go further ..

no 2. Is a failed concept? Oh well, looks cool.

no.3 is an internally powered double shot..No info on capacity?

no.4 is recharged off the engines..would it be safe to assume, therefore, has more power and greater fire capacity ?

There's been some talk, i know, in the past about the chemical laser thing. Is this VFMF trying for more realism or was there an evolution from particle beam to chemical laser? 

I don't recall, off the top of my head, which version the VF-1's used on their strike cannons..

 

[Seto Kaiba]

20 minutes ago, Bolt said:

no.3 is an internally powered double shot..No info on capacity?

None to speak of.

 

20 minutes ago, Bolt said:

no.4 is recharged off the engines..would it be safe to assume, therefore, has more power and greater fire capacity ?

Not clear if it has more firepower, but it has a lower rate of fire because it's recharging a capacitor bank off the reactors.

 

20 minutes ago, Bolt said:

There's been some talk, i know, in the past about the chemical laser thing. Is this VFMF trying for more realism or was there an evolution from particle beam to chemical laser? 

I'm not sure it's more realistic, and official materials are pretty clear about the Strike Pack using particle beam cannons.  It's just a thing they did for unclear reasons for the Master File books.

 

20 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I don't recall, off the top of my head, which version the VF-1's used on their strike cannons..

It's a particle beam cannon on the VF-1's Strike Pack officially, the Master File book's description makes it out to be a gas dynamic laser cannon using a very toxic gain medium (unnecessarily, since the gain medium in question is one used for lasers operating in atmosphere and the cannon is solely for space use.)

[Bariaburu Faita]

 

On 8/11/2019 at 5:21 AM, Master Dex said:

Are we going back to what is canon again? Lol, this is always fun. 

Unlike a lot of properties, in Macross what is canon is basically anything from a certain point of view. The only thing that was every strictly termed to be not part of the main universe is Macross II, and even that is not necessarily considered non canon. Seto can say more being the expert on M2, and all around well researched. 

EDIT: And Seto got in before I finished writing, ever the poised one. Speaking of, will you be at SDcon again this year Seto? I plan to again, after all it's a pretty short trip for me anyway. 

I offer my theory on the canon status of Macross II. I believe it is a piece of in universe fiction produced before 2059 and shown to the public at the Macross Museum. The curator of the museum was able to collect information from the distant past and near future to make his displays. Probably using some form of time travel similar to what was shown in the Macross 30 game. I speculate that he had little control over the people he was able to interview, some may be unreliable witnesses. And further errors may have occurred in production, as was seen in Macross Zero sequence from Frontier. So that the Macross 2 OVA we all saw does not accurately depict what actually happens in the prime timeline.

The other possibility is that drastic extinction level events alter the galaxy so much that humanity has to restart from earth and develop exactly as shown in the OVA. Tech is lost and alien races disappear.

What do you all think would allow Macross II to fit seamlessly into the prime canon timeline?

Edited August 14, 2019 by Bariaburu Faita
grammar

[Bolt]

Doesn't  Lovers Again take place in like 2089? -It hasn't happened yet (but it will!)

 

[Bariaburu Faita]

2 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Doesn't  Lovers Again take place in like 2089? -It hasn't happened yet (but it will!)

 

What im theorizing is that its a fictional account, of a future event, made with knowledge gained from time travel

[JB0]

I just want to fit Macross 2036 into the time line. Spent too much time with that CD rip and TurboGrafX emulator for it to be non-canon.

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Bariaburu Faita said:

What do you all think would allow Macross II to fit seamlessly into the prime canon timeline?

Personally, my view would be aligned with the fan theory that Macross II: Lovers Again is a popular in-universe work of dramatic fiction from the early 2040s.

That would explain (in-universe) why the OVA's soundtrack seems to be EVERYWHERE in Macross 7, from the repertoires of the other popular musicians in the 37th emigrant fleet to hit music on the Galaxy Network charts, why the Minmay Attack girl has a cameo in the series as an already-successful idol singer, and why the Macross 7 NUNS's attempt to put together its own Sound Force (the Jamming Birds) uses the same songs the military was promoting for its events in the OVA (e.g. Riding in your Valkyrie).

The UN Spacy of Macross II relies heavily on Zentradi warships the way the postwar Spacy did in the main Macross timeline, there are still Destroids, and the VF-2SS Valkyrie II is roughly on par with a VF-11 performance-wise (the military's current main fighter) even though it's more technologically advanced.  My guess would be it was probably shot using real Zentradi ships, modified Regults, and VF-11's that were CGI'd to appear as VF-2SS's the way Basara's VF-19 was to be CGI'd into Hikaru's VF-1S for The Lynn Minmay Story.

 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

Doesn't  Lovers Again take place in like 2089? -It hasn't happened yet (but it will!)

2092, but yeah... it's a ways into the future yet.

(2091-2092 if you take Macross Chronicle's view, which adds up to a self-indulgent Gundam reference when you note this puts the conflict in year 0079 of the New Era calendar that was established in Flash Back 2012.)

 

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

I just want to fit Macross 2036 into the time line. Spent too much time with that CD rip and TurboGrafX emulator for it to be non-canon.

Well, at the very least, Macross prime continuity Komilia and Macross 2036 Komilia are pretty much identical (thanks to Mikimoto-sensei). 

He did sneak some other nods to Macross 2036 and its sequel Eternal Love Song into his other Macross works.  The pilot suit in Macross 7 Trash is the same model from Eternal Love Song albeit tweaked slightly WRT the hard-armor segments, and Global's uniform in Macross the First includes the Valkyrie pilot's wings from Macross II among his decorations.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just a random detail that I found amusing/cute in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah...

When Sheryl moves on to Macross Olympia c.2064 and retains a personal guard from the Strategic Military Services branch in Macross Olympia, she specifically requests a pair of VF-25F Messiahs (Queen's Knights) as her ship's escort with the MODEX numbers 727 and 1123... Alto's birthday, and her own.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Sanity is Optional]

21 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Just a random detail that I found amusing/cute in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah...

 When Sheryl moves on to Macross Olympia c.2064 and retains a personal guard from the Strategic Military Services branch in Macross Olympia, she specifically requests a pair of VF-25F Messiahs (Queen's Knights) as her ship's escort with the MODEX numbers 727 and 1123... Alto's birthday, and her own.

Headcannon confirmed. Nobody will convince me differently.

[Bolt]

Thats very cool , actually. 

[NightmarePlus]

That's pretty adorable.

[Bariaburu Faita]

On 8/14/2019 at 11:15 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Personally, my view would be aligned with the fan theory that Macross II: Lovers Again is a popular in-universe work of dramatic fiction from the early 2040s.

That would explain (in-universe) why the OVA's soundtrack seems to be EVERYWHERE in Macross 7, from the repertoires of the other popular musicians in the 37th emigrant fleet to hit music on the Galaxy Network charts, why the Minmay Attack girl has a cameo in the series as an already-successful idol singer, and why the Macross 7 NUNS's attempt to put together its own Sound Force (the Jamming Birds) uses the same songs the military was promoting for its events in the OVA (e.g. Riding in your Valkyrie).

The UN Spacy of Macross II relies heavily on Zentradi warships the way the postwar Spacy did in the main Macross timeline, there are still Destroids, and the VF-2SS Valkyrie II is roughly on par with a VF-11 performance-wise (the military's current main fighter) even though it's more technologically advanced.  My guess would be it was probably shot using real Zentradi ships, modified Regults, and VF-11's that were CGI'd to appear as VF-2SS's the way Basara's VF-19 was to be CGI'd into Hikaru's VF-1S for The Lynn Minmay Story.

  

2092, but yeah... it's a ways into the future yet.

(2091-2092 if you take Macross Chronicle's view, which adds up to a self-indulgent Gundam reference when you note this puts the conflict in year 0079 of the New Era calendar that was established in Flash Back 2012.)

 

Well, at the very least, Macross prime continuity Komilia and Macross 2036 Komilia are pretty much identical (thanks to Mikimoto-sensei). 

He did sneak some other nods to Macross 2036 and its sequel Eternal Love Song into his other Macross works.  The pilot suit in Macross 7 Trash is the same model from Eternal Love Song albeit tweaked slightly WRT the hard-armor segments, and Global's uniform in Macross the First includes the Valkyrie pilot's wings from Macross II among his decorations.

Yes, that would make sense. I also suggest that the same production company that produced Macross II made DYRL. And being part of a multi media corporation with a subsidiary that produced the Macross 2036 video games in-universe.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, Bariaburu Faita said:

Yes, that would make sense. I also suggest that the same production company that produced Macross II made DYRL. And being part of a multi media corporation with a subsidiary that produced the Macross 2036 video games in-universe.

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2 - itself presented as a 2030-vintage in-universe mass market publication - makes mention of a 2012 in-universe film called Macross: the Truth of South Ataria Island that dramatizes the events of the start of the First Space War and a forthcoming direct sequel set to release in 2031 (which we know is the in-universe take on Macross: Do You Remember Love?).  It wouldn't be surprising if a production company with the connections to shoot multiple films with the military's support to promote the ideas the danger of alien attack hadn't passed tried to branch out from historical dramas to speculative fiction... especially with the Mardook being implied to be the Protoculture.  A 2040s vintage Macross II: Lovers Again in-universe film might even have been a somewhat subversive piece intended to quietly call the military out for its abuses of authority and its general complacency that were already in the process of snowballing into the Second Unification War c.2050-2051.

[Focslain]

40 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2 - itself presented as a 2030-vintage in-universe mass market publication - makes mention of a 2012 in-universe film called Macross: the Truth of South Ataria Island that dramatizes the events of the start of the First Space War and a forthcoming direct sequel set to release in 2031 (which we know is the in-universe take on Macross: Do You Remember Love?).  It wouldn't be surprising if a production company with the connections to shoot multiple films with the military's support to promote the ideas the danger of alien attack hadn't passed tried to branch out from historical dramas to speculative fiction... especially with the Mardook being implied to be the Protoculture.  A 2040s vintage Macross II: Lovers Again in-universe film might even have been a somewhat subversive piece intended to quietly call the military out for its abuses of authority and its general complacency that were already in the process of snowballing into the Second Unification War c.2050-2051.

This makes so much sense it's scary.

I like it!

[Bariaburu Faita]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2 - itself presented as a 2030-vintage in-universe mass market publication - makes mention of a 2012 in-universe film called Macross: the Truth of South Ataria Island that dramatizes the events of the start of the First Space War and a forthcoming direct sequel set to release in 2031 (which we know is the in-universe take on Macross: Do You Remember Love?).  It wouldn't be surprising if a production company with the connections to shoot multiple films with the military's support to promote the ideas the danger of alien attack hadn't passed tried to branch out from historical dramas to speculative fiction... especially with the Mardook being implied to be the Protoculture.  A 2040s vintage Macross II: Lovers Again in-universe film might even have been a somewhat subversive piece intended to quietly call the military out for its abuses of authority and its general complacency that were already in the process of snowballing into the Second Unification War c.2050-2051.

This lines up with what Kawamori has stated about the overall timeline, everything is an in-universe fictionalization of a in-universe event. So I amend my theory to say that the curator of the in-universe Macross Museum in 2059 had been already familiar with the future events when he was younger, and advised the production staff of what the general outline of the plot of Macross II should be in the 2040s. I think the general population believed it to be speculative fiction, until he revealed in 2059 that it actually will happen.

 

[Sir Galahad®]

Over the years, I have seen the backpack thrusters disappearing, with the VF-25 just having six small thrusters that push you forward while in GERWALK since the legs are pointing downward. I do understand that that is what the FAST packs are for, or the Extra engines in the VF-27 and YF-29. But when I look at the VF-31, I would think, what would push this forward while in GERWALK (image credit to Projeckt-Zero-Three)