Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

From a fictional standpoint, the naval force makes the most sense to base your fictional space force off of. Most fictional space forces have space battleships and space carriers and space destroyers. The real navy has pre-existing analogs for all of that and the associated support mechanisms, so no one has to re-invent the wheel. 

"Space is an ocean" is a fairly common trope in sci-fi... even if it's not altogether appropriate.

 

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

In that regard, it is rather odd that Macross chose to follow army tradition rather than naval or air force. Perhaps the titular ship's roomy interior and large civilian populace made the writers feel they had more leeway to reinvent things. The city especially gives them less of a "carrier life" vibe and more of a "coastal base" one, so the nautical analogy is less useful.

I suspect it likely had a lot to do with Shoji Kawamori being a military aviation enthusiast.  The sort of bloke who would have known somewhat obscure facts like a space fleet would fall under Air Force jurisdiction or a separate space force would be spun off of the Air Force if it were created in the modern day.

That his fictional space force - the UN Spacy - took the form of a Space Army with its own Air Service likely reflects the dual role the VF-1 Valkyrie occupied... it is both Aircraft and Infantry in the planned-for war against giant aliens.

I think this is reflected, to a certain extent, in how shipboard life on the Macross was depicted.  Hikaru and the other pilots don't live aboard the aircraft carriers attached to the SDF-1 Macross like you'd expect a naval aviator to do.  They live on an army base inside the ship's habitat section.  You could think of the Macross as a spacegoing town built on a large and suspiciously well-armed army base.  Being incapable of independent operation, the Prometheus is less aircraft carrier and more an airfield adjoining the base.  In the ARMD-class's development history you see shades of this as they were developed as space airfields to be installed in orbit as a staging area for space fighters before someone arrived at the idea of putting engines and weapons on them.

What we have in the UN Spacy and New UN Spacy is something that isn't wholly any one branch of the modern armed forces.  The ranks are Army-style, it operates ships and fighter squadrons that use Navy-style designations and honors some naval traditions in the course of daily life, it spun off its own Marine Corps AND an Air Force.  It maintains both aircraft that double as infantry and its own armored fighting vehicles that are also ersatz infantry.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, sketchley said:

I'm glad that you mentioned the Destroids, because it reminded me of something: there is a Unified Forces Army.

I can't recall the specific sources, but essentially, the branches of the Unified Forces are: UF Army, UF Air Force, UF Navy, UF Spacy, and UF Marines.

Yup.  After the war they added the Spacy Air Force and Spacy Marine Corps.

Barring one or two incidences where Destroids have inexplicable markings like "US Army", all of the Destroids we see in the Super Dimension Fortress Macross series are indicated to be UN Spacy assets.  The line art for the Tomahawk, Phalanx, Defender, and Spartan shows they have UN SPACY stenciled on them (typically on the front of the right ankle and back of the left, opposite the bumper code).

 

2 minutes ago, sketchley said:

So, I'm afraid, we're not anywhere closer to something decisive.

To the best of my knowledge, prior to Macross Frontier giving us a look at the New UN Spacy Marine Corps via the 33rd Marines on Gallia IV the only time we were ever shown any characters who were explicitly from another branch of service was in Macross II: Lovers Again.

The standard UN Forces uniform in that OVA was color-coded based on what branch a person belonged to.  The only two variants whose associated branches were explicitly identified in the artbooks were the Spacy (whose base color was black) and the Army (khaki).  The unnamed officer (believed to be a Colonel) we see commanding Earth's surface-based defenses in the OVA's last two episodes was the first (and AFAIK only) character to be explicitly identified as a UN Army soldier.  (He is helpfully wearing a patch on his right arm which says "ARMY" where the Spacy characters have "SPACY", seen on page 33 of This is Animation Special #5: Macross II.)

[Bolt]

 Very  interesting.  Isn’t there at least consistency within the Macross universe concerning this issue? 

Even if it doesn’t make “real world” sense?

When Fokker was addressed as “major” in Macross Zero, (¿¿translation correct??) it made me wonder for the first time, but I figured with the unification of Earth forces entering the theater of space in ernest, and new possible outside threat emerging, a reordering of classifying designations and rank was introduced. Not necessarily re inventing the wheel so much as teeeking it..

[Aries Turner]

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

Even if it doesn’t make “real world” sense?

The more I think about it, the more sense it does.

Spacy role is not about protecting sea/space lanes nor actively pursuing pirate fleets. It just defends planets if attacked, and ships are supposedly safe while folding from planet to planet, emigration fleets being the only ones that usually fold out in the middle of nowhere. So Spacy does not actively pursue missions of a Navy.

Spacy role is not folding deep, very deep into uncharted territory to search for prospective enemy production facilities for an strategic strike in the other far end of the Galaxy. Spacy just do planet hopping, securing planets before going further, not risking leaving a potentially hostile planet deep inside their influence area. So it is an unlikely 'Air Force'.

Spacy claims, defend or even blockade land (planets). Spacy does not advance much before securing the rear. That is the army way. You may think of fleets as composed of battleships, carriers and flanking frigates, but may as well think about those as tanks, personnel carriers and scouts, crossing and surveying a battlefield. Km long tanks, hundred of meters APCs and tens of meters scouts, but still maneuvering as such.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Aries Turner

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Bolt said:

 Very  interesting.  Isn’t there at least consistency within the Macross universe concerning this issue? 

Yeah, Macross is reasonably consistent about this.  

 

4 hours ago, Bolt said:

When Fokker was addressed as “major” in Macross Zero, (¿¿translation correct??) it made me wonder for the first time, but I figured with the unification of Earth forces entering the theater of space in ernest, and new possible outside threat emerging, a reordering of classifying designations and rank was introduced. Not necessarily re inventing the wheel so much as teeeking it..

Well, remember... Roy might've been on a UN Navy warship in Macross Zero, but he was a UN Spacy officer commanding a squadron of UN Spacy fighter pilots who were there for model conversion training in preparation for adopting the VF-1 Valkyrie.

 

 

1 hour ago, Aries Turner said:

Spacy role is not about protecting sea/space lanes nor actively pursuing pirate fleets. It just defends planets if attacked, and ships are supposedly safe while folding from planet to planet, emigration fleets being the only ones that usually fold out in the middle of nowhere. So Spacy does not actively pursue missions of a Navy.

Sort of... I guess you could say that when everyone is essentially using folded-space teleportation to get around, there aren't any "space lanes" to protect.

There is passing mention in Macross Plus of some kind of patrol force out in deep space that Isamu was very briefly assigned in late 2038 and early 2039 before he irritated his latest round of superiors and was dumped on another assignment.

[Seto Kaiba]

I've been reading some stuff about the Macross Galaxy fleet's technology lately, and it makes the place sound kinda... completely horrific.

As you know, Macross Galaxy is a 4th Generation closed-system chemical plant-type emigrant ship constructed and launched under the sponsorship of General Galaxy.  The whole fleet is run by a corporation rather than a civilian government and is more or less one colossal flying R&D facility for its parent company, General Galaxy.  The fleet's advances to automation and labor-saving technology have left it with high unemployment despite overall high economic productivity, so large sections of its residential blocks have deteriorated into slums.  Its citizens are almost uniformly cyborgs who are described as essentially living in perpetual cybernetically-enforced augmented reality.  There are few, if any, entertainment facilities on its main residential ship and natural food production has been replaced by more resource-efficient synthetic foods.  The augmented reality its citizens live in compensates for this, since it can be used to convert an empty space into a parkland in the mind's eye of the beholder and modify their sense of taste so that the synthetic food tastes good.  The general populace there is being mind controlled on pretty much every freaking level to the point where they're not really in touch with objective reality anymore.  The corporation is conducting all kinds of unethical testing and experimentation like using black ops to test new weapons, unlawfully creating cyborg soldiers and implanting battle AIs into civilians to turn them into soldiers without needing to train them, and even backing terrorists to intimidate opponents of legalizing cybernetic implants in the fleet.  One of the few entertainment venues we know about within the fleet, the Riviera-class resort ship Evna (which may or may not be named for the capital city of the Land of Ev in L. Frank Baum's Oz series) was attacked and taken over by a splinter group leftover from Latence (the bad guys in VF-X2) in 2058.

This whole fleet is straight-up Weyland-Yutani sh*t... except Macross Galaxy is actually good at it.

It certainly explains why Sheryl was so in awe of the Macross Frontier's 5th Generation closed-system bioplant-type construction, since the fleet's residential blocks are much nicer places to live in than urban jungle of Macross Galaxy.  People without implants in the Macross Galaxy fleet are effectively second-class citizens who lead harsh lives, since the entire community is heavily tied into the implant network there.  Visitors can allegedly make use of AR goggles to interact with the network in a limited manner.  It kind of has some horrific implications for Sheryl's childhood above and beyond her having spent some time living rough in the slums.  She had no implants, so she was a second-class citizen cut of from most of what was going on in the fleet day-to-day.  It's like Grace was raising her as a bird in a cage.

[JB0]

15 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's like Grace was raising her as a bird in a cage.

And not changing the newspaper that lined the bottom. Really nasty cage.

[Bolt]

Sounds very raw cyberpunk where the corporation has already attained complete dominance..

Perhaps GG will raises its ugly head again. One would think NUNS is aware of this, but how is it GG can get away with this?

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

And not changing the newspaper that lined the bottom. Really nasty cage.

When you factor in that Grace essentially stage-managed the riots that got Sheryl's family killed, she's basically been running Sheryl's entire life from the shadows.

Sheryl was kept implant-free and indicated to Alto that being "all natural" was part of her appeal, but that must have made her almost entirely dependent on Grace to get by in the Macross Galaxy fleet's heavily network-dependent society.

 

6 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Sounds very raw cyberpunk where the corporation has already attained complete dominance..

Perhaps GG will raises its ugly head again. One would think NUNS is aware of this, but how is it GG can get away with this?

General Galaxy would appear to have some plausible deniability there, and may not even have been directly aware what Macross Galaxy was planning.

The way it's described, Macross Galaxy was a separate corporation that was founded by General Galaxy as a subsidiary... so it had its own corporate leadership who were appointed by General Galaxy's board and was technically responsible for its own decisionmaking.  As such, since the identities of the Galaxy Executives aren't known, it's unclear how involved people at General Galaxy were in Macross Galaxy's shenanigans.  Some or all of them may have been in the know, or Macross Galaxy might've been a true rogue corporation.

[DWN013]

So, I've posted my essay.  Seto, look what you made me do!    In all seriousness though, I do hope we can have an enjoyable, civil discussion in that thread.  Also, how was the USS Edson?  Cool time?

Edited May 4, 2019 by DWN013

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, DWN013 said:

So, I've posted my essay.  Seto, look what you made me do!    In all seriousness though, I do hope we can have an enjoyable, civil discussion in that thread. 

Yeah, that's a long one.

 

9 hours ago, DWN013 said:

Also, how was the USS Edson?  Cool time?

The museum staff are making pretty good progress on the restoration work, considering how bizarrely out-of-the-way the USS Edson's dock is.

As a donor I got to sneak into a number of parts of the ship that aren't quite safe for the regular visitors.  I'm hoping the restoration work will be done in the next few years, though the upkeep on a thing like that has to be brutal.  The next big item is they definitely need to strip the deck and repaint it.  Michigan winters are NOT kind.

(I did have a grand time watching my brother, who's never been on a military vessel of any kind, find every exposed conduit, steam pipe, and doorframe with his head.  I'm almost 2m tall myself but I've long since learned where to duck.)

[Bolt]

Coming to the well for knowledge once again..

I’ve been trying to read up on the QF-300E Ghost, as it’s one of my latest resin model projects. 

I don’t have anything I can easily translate, so I’ve been reading the Macross wiki..

Apparently it was developed into the X-9 Ghost?

And it’s space maneuvering characteristics helped in the development of the VF-X?

It’s semi autonomous AI and remote controlled, I believe..

Maiden flight 2003.  First engagement 2009 (booby trap). Are there any other noteworthy instances of combat duty before or after 2009?

[Seto Kaiba]

33 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I don’t have anything I can easily translate, so I’ve been reading the Macross wiki..

Resources are pretty slim all around on that one... the only book I've translated that says more than a little about it is the old Sky Angels book, which is where most of the info in later publications comes from.

 

33 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Apparently it was developed into the X-9 Ghost?

Perhaps not directly, but the AIF-X-9 Ghost from Macross Plus is a descendant of the Northrom QF-3000E Ghost from the First Space War.  It was arguably also a predecessor of the Neo Glaug drone that was also under test in 2040 (and was a boss in the Macross Plus video game edition).

Volume 2 of the VF-1 Master File indicates that the Northrom QF-3000 was internally designated AIF-3, and also mentions an improved model that was developed in the late 2010s that was designated QF-3100 Ghost Kai.

After the fully autonomous AIF-X-9 ended in a spectacular fiasco in 2040, the economized production version of the nextgen Ghost (the AIF-7S seen in Macross Frontier) was built with an improved version of the same semi-autonomous artificial intelligence used by the QF-3000.

 

33 minutes ago, Bolt said:

And it’s space maneuvering characteristics helped in the development of the VF-X?

Yeah, the QF-3000 had some issues with its FF-1999 initial-type thermonuclear reaction turbine engine.

The knowledge gained while investigating and correcting those issues also benefited the VF-X program.

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix gives a little detail as to how.  It describes the VF-0-NF, a VF-0 outfitted with a pair of FF-1999 engines, that was used in atmospheric and space testing to evaluate the performance of a Variable Fighter with thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.  (This apparently later led to the VF-0+, a VF-0 updated with the same FF-2001 engines used by the VF-1A.)

 

33 minutes ago, Bolt said:

It’s semi autonomous AI and remote controlled, I believe..

Yeah, the initial generation of OTM-based AI computers were a little flaky so the QF-3000 was a semi-autonomous unmanned fighter.

 

33 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Maiden flight 2003.  First engagement 2009 (booby trap). Are there any other noteworthy instances of combat duty before or after 2009?

None before, though it's said that the vast majority of QF-3000s saw combat exactly once... in the battle with the Boddole Main Fleet in 2010.  Of the 1,500 produced, less than 100 survived that engagement.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Battroid Valkyrie suggests that the 20 or so remaining Ghosts that the SDF-1 Macross had access to after its defold at Pluto's orbit did pretty well for themselves against the Vrlitwhai branch fleet and suffered only about 50% losses in the entire flight to Mars.

[Bolt]

Awesome! I love this particular aircraft. 

I’ve seen it described as an unmanned fighter/bomber. I’m aware of the six onboard 55mm(?) machine guns and the two on board  missile bays. But is there any info regarding its ability to perform as a bomber. Does it even have the capacity?

Is Macross Chronicle not a reliable source?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

I’ve seen it described as an unmanned fighter/bomber. I’m aware of the six onboard 55mm(?) machine guns and the two on board  missile bays. But is there any info regarding its ability to perform as a bomber. Does it even have the capacity?

Are you possibly thinking of "fighter/attacker" rather than fighter/bomber?  Because I've seen statements that the aircraft that the QF-3000 Ghost was based on was a fighter/attacker multirole aircraft, but I've never seen the bomber role associated with it.

Its weapons are exclusively short-ranged, consisting of six 55mm cannons and 2 3-tube missile launchers mounted in the fixed-forward position behind the guns... and a lifting body like that can't carry much under the fuselage without screwing up its own aerodynamics.

Design-wise, it's more or less a freshened version of the Martin Marietta X-24A/SV-5J lifting body prototype with armaments.  That experimental aircraft was used to test the feasbility of several design choices that were being made for the space shuttle.  (There is a nod to this in the form of Kawamori's VF-X-7, which is a Martin Marietta X-24B that Kawamori named the "Ghost Valkyrie".)

 

Quote

Is Macross Chronicle not a reliable source?

Macross Chronicle's a top-tier source, but there were changes and corrections to many sheets between editions.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

25 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Are you possibly thinking of "fighter/attacker" rather than fighter/bomber? 

It’s a Macross wiki thing. So I will ignore it.

THanks!

[sketchley]

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

Coming to the well for knowledge once again..

I’ve been trying to read up on the QF-300E Ghost, as it’s one of my latest resin model projects. 

I don’t have anything I can easily translate, so I’ve been reading the Macross wiki..

(...)

Here's the links to my translations on it:

• VFMF: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/OTvfmf/VFMFvf1battroidValkyrie.php#106
• Macross Chronicle: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/SDFMun16aQF3000eSF3A.php

The following have bits on the QF-3000E:

• Macross Chronicle: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/ZEROun07aQF2200Dghost.php
• Macross Chronicle: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/Funs04aAIF-7Sghost.php
• Macross Chronicle: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/TFetc01aAIF-9Vghost.php

 

... and a list of all the Ghost drones in Macross that I'm aware of (basically from QVF Drone VF to Sound Booster No.3 Craft):

• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics.php#Aerospace_Vehicles
• there's also a manned version—the F-3000 Fighter: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/QF-3000E/F-3000E.php

[Bolt]

12 minutes ago, sketchley said:

Here's the links to my translations on it:

•  

Many, many thanks Aaron! 

[sketchley]

15 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Many, many thanks Aaron! 

Enjoy the reading!  (not just of the QF-3000E, but all the other Macross content. )

When it comes to the RPG stats, just remember the mantra: green is good (= official), and blue is OK (= semi-official).

[Bolt]

“Enemy scout Rigādo units were at the mercy of the ghosts, which demonstrated maneuverability beyond knowledge, and were often destroyed before they comprehend what it was.”

”It May be safe to say that the SDF-1 and it’s shipboard VF-1 units were literally supported by the shadow of the ghosts (phantoms)”

Kick ass!

14 minutes ago, sketchley said:

Enjoy the reading!  (not just of the QF-3000E, but all the other Macross content. )

When it comes to the RPG stats, just remember the mantra: green is good (= official), and blue is OK (= semi-official).

Thanks. Will do.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

there's also a manned version—the F-3000 Fighter: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/QF-3000E/F-3000E.php

Hey, it's Hoyer's little leisure craft from Macross 7 Trash...

[sketchley]

12 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hey, it's Hoyer's little leisure craft from Macross 7 Trash...

If memory serves, there's more than just a bit of anime magic going on with that thing's cockpit.

Nevertheless, it's a macross manga by Haruhiko Mikomoto.  He can get away with it.  LOL

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, sketchley said:

If memory serves, there's more than just a bit of anime magic going on with that thing's cockpit.

Nevertheless, it's a macross manga by Haruhiko Mikomoto.  He can get away with it.  LOL

Yeah, it's WAY too roomy for its size.  The cockpit would look more at home on a commercial airliner in terms of size.

[Bolt]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hey, it's Hoyer's little leisure craft from Macross 7 Trash

Interesting..

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Interesting..

Yeah, it was odd.  Mahara Fabrio's subordinate, Hoyer, needs a word in private with Macross 7 Trash's protagonist Shiba Midou and totally unheralded we get this QF-3000 that's been converted into a manned spacecraft with a suspiciously roomy side-by-side cockpit so they can talk in private.  Nobody bats an eye at this or remarks on it at all.

That same sequence depicted a hereforeto unseen and unmentioned variant of the ARMD-class space carrier as part of the 37th large scale long distance emigrant fleet, which is also not remarked upon despite this class of ship being close on fifty years old when the manga is set.

[Bolt]

Wow. So many details, so little time..

Here’s that “unmanned fighter/bomber “ reference again..under 2009AD..

http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/Funs04aAIF-7Sghost.php

[sketchley]

That manga had a few goodies here and there.

I think I ended up describing that version of the ARMD as the "2038 Improved Version".  More (limited) info on the ARMD variants: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ARMD/ARMDalt.php#2038

 

There was one more bit of fun in Macross 7 Trash: the enemy Power Suit: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/PowerSuitM7Trash/PowerSuitM7Trash.php

Ignore the write up (those stats have been a 'work in progress' for like 5 years! ), but enjoy the picts!  In-universe, it's probably just an  armed and slightly more armoured version of the hover-rollerskating suits that the manga's protagonist uses in sports (maybe this manga is where Kawamori-san started to get a handle on the uses of EX-Gear?)

[Bolt]

23 hours ago, sketchley said:

When it comes to the RPG stats, just remember the mantra: green is good (= official), and blue is OK (= semi-official).

Are these RPG stats palladium compatible?

[sketchley]

25 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Are these RPG stats palladium compatible?

Yes.

The main goal—when I started the project over a decade ago—was to make existing stats balanced with each other.  Of course, that has slowly switched to making stats for new mecha (or mecha that was heretofore unknown in English), and making ultimate versions that are as factually correct as possible (thus the green/blue colour coding).

For example, I'm currently working on the VBP-1/VA-100 Neo-Gurāji Bis: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/VariableGuraaji/VBP-1neoGurajiBis.php .  Which is something which I had initially mistook as the Variable Gurāji (while it's a derivative, it's more like an upgraded version of the AVF version of the Variable Gurāji ).

In doing so, I've also stumbled across a wealth of new info (E.g.: Temujin used a VBP-1 against Aruto in the novel version of Frontier), and heretofore unknown names for Zentrādi Mobile Weapons (the Kai versions of the Air-battle Pod, Gurāji, and Rigādo from Digital Mission VFX [previously known as the "Stealth" version], and the Super Gurāji from Macross Delta).

The to-do list never appears to get any shorter...

Edited May 10, 2019 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Ah... I forgot to mention one of the reasons why making the stats balanced is important: to make it easier to convert to different game systems.

If everything is consistent, then one just has to work out the conversion equations once, and it's only a matter of punching the keys on a calculator! 

[Bolt]

Ah so.. 

Thats awesome!

Once I started playing RIFTS, wherein I could incorporate any theme or time line, especially RT(read Macross!)  via the RIFFS, everything was converted to that system.  I’ll be sure to study your work !

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, sketchley said:

I think I ended up describing that version of the ARMD as the "2038 Improved Version".  More (limited) info on the ARMD variants: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ARMD/ARMDalt.php#2038

Master File kinda ran with the idea of doing something with the unused hull frame space on the underside in the VF-4 book, so the idea at least has a certain amount of currency.  It's basically the three-hull type described in Master File with a less-busy design.  I did find it rather amusing that Master File included a freaking water landing conversion.  

 

2 hours ago, sketchley said:

In-universe, it's probably just an  armed and slightly more armoured version of the hover-rollerskating suits that the manga's protagonist uses in sports (maybe this manga is where Kawamori-san started to get a handle on the uses of EX-Gear?)

Yeah, it's a modified T-Crash suit equipped with weapons derived from Midou's mom's research.  Fun stuff tho, it was nice to see a tiny implicit nod towards that kind of tech in Frontier was the hover skateboards.

 

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

For example, I'm currently working on the VBP-1/VA-100 Neo-Gurāji Bis: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/VariableGuraaji/VBP-1neoGurajiBis.php .  Which is something which I had initially mistook as the Variable Gurāji (while it's a derivative, it's more like an upgraded version of the AVF version of the Variable Gurāji ).

That thing is a write-up nightmare... a custom manned conversion of an unmanned variable fighter prototype that was converted from a manned variable fighter that was developed by rogue Zentradi based on a stolen VF-4.

The way it's written up, I'm half-convinced VBP-1 and VA-110 are actually the designations for the original Variable Glaug.  It would fit with Kawamori and Chiba's love of nicking US conventions.  110 would be a design number from Project Constant Peg, the once top-secret test program evaluating captured enemy fighters... and the Variable Glaug was that.

The funny part is that, despite all the fuss and noise about the Zentran version only being suitable for a petite Meltran, two of the three known pilots are bigger-than-average Zentradi men: the commander-class Temjin and Naresuan.  That can not have been a comfortable ride for them.

 

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

The to-do list never appears to get any shorter...

No kidding.  After the last couple Master File books, I am once again out of shelf space and having to buy more bookshelves.

[sketchley]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That thing is a write-up nightmare... a custom manned conversion of an unmanned variable fighter prototype that was converted from a manned variable fighter that was developed by rogue Zentradi based on a stolen VF-4.

The way it's written up, I'm half-convinced VBP-1 and VA-110 are actually the designations for the original Variable Glaug.  It would fit with Kawamori and Chiba's love of nicking US conventions.  110 would be a design number from Project Constant Peg, the once top-secret test program evaluating captured enemy fighters... and the Variable Glaug was that.

 

Yeah, it's been a monster trying to unscramble that mess.  I've basically got it worked out as:

• Variable Gurāji-Zent. specification: appears in 2018.  Produced in significant numbers (akin to the large production base used by the Anti-Unification Zentrādi power that appeared in the game "Macross Digital Mission VF-X")
• Variable Gurāji-human specification: Unified Forces replaced Zent. cockpits in captured units with human sized ones.  (again, it only really makes sense if there are significant numbers involved.  It'd just be insane to make a one-off of a one-off...).
• VBP-1/VA-100 Neo-Gurāji: appears in 2040.  As per the "Macross the Ride" novel: based on the Variable Gurāji, and completed by the Macross Concern for the AVF Project as a 3-mode Variable Attacker**.  The only way to make it gel with Macross Chronicle's  description of it being an AI-equipped drone operated by Sharon Apple, is if we consider that to be a unit that was expressly converted to AI control (perhaps the Macross Concern were trying to cut their losses after failing to get into the Project Super Nova competition, and were trying to market it as a drone rival to the Ghost X-9).
• VBP-1/VA-100 Neo-Gurāji Bis: 2058 "Kai" version that appears in the "Macross the Ride" novel.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around what changes were made in the "Kai" upgrade—aside from restoring the claws that were on the Variable Gurāji to the hands—but as for as most of the stats that were released when MtR was first published: they are all part of the AVF requirements, and should be on the non-Kai version, too (though, we could also say that it wasn't accepted into Project Super Nova because it didn't achieve all the AVF requirements, and just like how the VBP-1 "completed" the Variable Gurāji, the Bis completed the Neo-Gurāji )

The only other thing that has become clear to me is that the attacker aspect of the Neo-Gurāji appears to be about it being able to blast large holes in the sides of enemy ships (otherwise, the lack of hardpoints for bombs and stuff...).  Being used for artillery makes perfect sense too, but that role appears to be for the VB (Variable Bomber) specification craft (E.g.: the VB-6)—nevermind that the VBP-1/VA-100 fires energy blasts, not artillery shells...

 

* "Appears in" means earliest known in-universe appearance.  Most likely produced earlier.

** Apparently Kawamori-san had worked out rough designs for it's first appearance in "Macross Plus Game Edition", but it wasn't finalized due to polygon count restrictions in the game.

 

Quote

The funny part is that, despite all the fuss and noise about the Zentran version only being suitable for a petite Meltran, two of the three known pilots are bigger-than-average Zentradi men: the commander-class Temjin and Naresuan.  That can not have been a comfortable ride for them.

That's the one thing that appears to be consistent across all versions.  Though some go into a bit more detail: stating that any old giant is able to pilot it, but only the Meltrandi are able to suss out its "true" capabilities.

 

I'm pretty sure that it'd be easy to convert it to EX-Gear (if the cramped VF-1 can do it... a cockpit designed for giant sized Zents is a given!)  So, I'm wondering if  an EX-Gear using human would get performance equal to or better than a Meltrandi giant pilot.

Edited May 10, 2019 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

Meant to reply to this much earlier, but Thursday and Friday were a mechanical nightmare.

 

On 5/10/2019 at 11:11 AM, sketchley said:

Yeah, it's been a monster trying to unscramble that mess.  I've basically got it worked out as:

• Variable Gurāji-Zent. specification: appears in 2018.  Produced in significant numbers (akin to the large production base used by the Anti-Unification Zentrādi power that appeared in the game "Macross Digital Mission VF-X")
• Variable Gurāji-human specification: Unified Forces replaced Zent. cockpits in captured units with human sized ones.  (again, it only really makes sense if there are significant numbers involved.  It'd just be insane to make a one-off of a one-off...).
• VBP-1/VA-100 Neo-Gurāji: appears in 2040.  As per the "Macross the Ride" novel: based on the Variable Gurāji, and completed by the Macross Concern for the AVF Project as a 3-mode Variable Attacker**.  The only way to make it gel with Macross Chronicle's  description of it being an AI-equipped drone operated by Sharon Apple, is if we consider that to be a unit that was expressly converted to AI control (perhaps the Macross Concern were trying to cut their losses after failing to get into the Project Super Nova competition, and were trying to market it as a drone rival to the Ghost X-9).
• VBP-1/VA-100 Neo-Gurāji Bis: 2058 "Kai" version that appears in the "Macross the Ride" novel.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around what changes were made in the "Kai" upgrade—aside from restoring the claws that were on the Variable Gurāji to the hands—but as for as most of the stats that were released when MtR was first published: they are all part of the AVF requirements, and should be on the non-Kai version, too (though, we could also say that it wasn't accepted into Project Super Nova because it didn't achieve all the AVF requirements, and just like how the VBP-1 "completed" the Variable Gurāji, the Bis completed the Neo-Gurāji )

The problem is the Macross the Ride light novel seems to have forgotten that the Variable Glaug was developed in the 2010s, so it acts like the Neo Glaug was the original model.

The explanation also has some issues as to why the Macross Concern was marketing a competitor to their own X-9 Ghost prototype... 

My hypothesis/interpretation would be that the Neo Glaug was probably a parallel development of manned and unmanned modernized versions of the New UN Forces reproduction Variable Glaug.  Having manned and unmanned fighters that shared a considerable number of parts would probably have been a strong selling point form a logistics standpoint, but the manned version apparently wasn't able to adequately rival Shinsei's YF-19 and General Galaxy's YF-21, so it got dropped before the final competition.  They completed the Neo Glaug's unmanned specification only for Isamu to blast it to scrap near Macross City in 2040.  I'd guess the Neo Glaug bis is a manned conversion of the drone specification of the Neo Glaug, essentially re-converting it into a modernized Variable Glaug.

 

 

On 5/10/2019 at 11:11 AM, sketchley said:

The only other thing that has become clear to me is that the attacker aspect of the Neo-Gurāji appears to be about it being able to blast large holes in the sides of enemy ships (otherwise, the lack of hardpoints for bombs and stuff...).

Well, that is why the Strike pack is called the Strike pack... having a big damn beam gun for knocking holes for engaging ships or ground targets counts as being an attacker.

 

 

On 5/10/2019 at 11:11 AM, sketchley said:

Being used for artillery makes perfect sense too, but that role appears to be for the VB (Variable Bomber) specification craft (E.g.: the VB-6)—nevermind that the VBP-1/VA-100 fires energy blasts, not artillery shells...

"Artillery" is a matter of perspective in space where microgravity isn't going to substantially affect the trajectories of shells.

 

 

On 5/10/2019 at 11:11 AM, sketchley said:

That's the one thing that appears to be consistent across all versions.  Though some go into a bit more detail: stating that any old giant is able to pilot it, but only the Meltrandi are able to suss out its "true" capabilities.

Considering the Meltrans in the main Macross timeline were basically an attempt to solve the Queadluun-series battle suit's problems with Zentradi not being able to pilot it by just designing a better grade of pilot, it makes sense.  They naturally have better g-force resistance and reflexes because they were designed that way.

 

 

On 5/10/2019 at 11:11 AM, sketchley said:

I'm pretty sure that it'd be easy to convert it to EX-Gear (if the cramped VF-1 can do it... a cockpit designed for giant sized Zents is a given!)  So, I'm wondering if  an EX-Gear using human would get performance equal to or better than a Meltrandi giant pilot.

Possibly.  The Intellectual Passive Interface in the EX-Gear with those electromyographic sensors would probably go a ways towards making up the gap in terms of reflexes, but the Meltrandi still have better g-force endurance than Zentradi or Humans.  They might get all the way there if they had something like an inertia vector control system or inertia store converter.

[AN/ALQ128]

Is there any clarification in background materials on small arms in the Macross universe? From what I've seen, despite the massive advances in tech, actual firearm tech doesn't seem to have progressed much. Mirage is still using a Walther PPK in 2067, surely they'd have found a better way to design a small handgun by then.