Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Sildani]

Shaher Femail, Female... what’s with that then, and was there a Mail/Male?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Shaher Femail, Female... what’s with that then, and was there a Mail/Male?

I confess I'm not sure what the significance of the gender symbols is supposed to be... the Canaanite god Shahar was male, and so was his twin Shalim.

There was, however, a Shahar ♂ in the YF-27's series of prototypes in addition to the Shahar ♀.

The YF-27-3 Shahar ♂ was assigned to Maj. Brera Sterne of the Galaxy fleet 52nd Fighter Wing "Antares" platoon.  It's implied to have a four-engine configuration, and it's noted that it was outfitted with an ISC despite its unstable engine output and has some lag in its control system.

The YF-27-5 Shahar ♀ was assigned to Maris Stella, the Project Stella "cyber-grunt" prototype and was used for illegal combat data collection via black ops.  It's a two-engine version which has no ISC, and thus is slower and has lower output than the YF-27-3, but it's better armed and a more stable aircraft overall.  (It's hinted that this version was made to mislead people as to the level of capability of the final craft.)

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

"Percival" is only the most accepted English spelling.  It's also been rendered as Perceval, Parsifal, Parzival, etc.  It's possible they started with one of those.

It's also possible that's just a typo... like what happened to the YF-27-5.  "Shaher" is a nonsense pseudoword.  The correct spelling, "Shahar", is a Hebrew word that was translated as "Lucifer" in the translation of the Book of Isaiah from Hebrew into Latin.  Translating foreign words into katakana is a somewhat imprecise science due to differing rules of pronunciation between languages.

The other thing with words borrowed into Japanese, is to keep in mind the error that they were borrowed in (thus added to the dictionary, and the spelling 'set in stone').

In brief (take it with a grain of salt):

After WWII: words mainly from English

After Meiji restoration: words mainly from German

From around the Azuchi-momoyama (warring states) era: words mainly from Dutch.

 

Intertwined through that, you have specific words borrowed from a variety of languages.  For example: English mainly borrows from Germanic or Romance languages, but the word "taboo" comes from the Polynesian languages (specifically Tongan and Fijian).

[SMS007]

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossf/vf-27.htm

When MMM, courtesy of Macross Chronicle?, says that Galaxy never informed the N.U.N.G. of the VF-27 reaching production and deployment, is that true of the TV telling of Frontier or the movie telling?

Edited March 24, 2018 by SMS007

[Master Dex]

Yeah Galaxy essentially developed the VF-27 illegally in both versions of the show.

[Seto Kaiba]

11 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossf/vf-27.htm

When MMM [...] says that Galaxy never informed the N.U.N.G. of the VF-27 reaching production and deployment, is that true of the TV telling of Frontier or the movie telling?

As far as I'm aware, there is no difference in the development backstory for any of the VFs between the Macross Frontier TV and Movie versions.  The VF-27 doesn't even have a Mechanic Sheet in the movie section of Macross Chronicle, it only got one for the Super Pack add-on.

 

Spoiler

IIRC, the only mecha that had its development history altered for the movies was the Macross Quarter.  The TV series version was billed as a local development by the Frontier fleet's Yaesu Heavy Industries and the local L.A.I. branch, on loan to SMS from the fleet NUNS.  The one in the movies was designed on Eden by Hashuu Heavy Industries and Shinsei Industry, and then the specs were shared to all the emigrant fleets, and SMS in the Frontier fleet built one solely for its own use.

 

11 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

[...], courtesy of Macross Chronicle?, [...]

Courtesy of the liner notes from the sixth volume of the Macross Frontier Blu-ray release.

Offhand, I think that remark is also corroborated by the Mechanic A-sheet for the VF-27 in Macross Chronicle's Macross Frontier TV grouping.

[SMS007]

Alright, thanks for clarifying that!

[SMS007]

What is the naming intent behind the Fz-109 エルガーゾルン / Erugāzorun (Elgersorn? Elgerzorn?) and the Az-130 パンツァーゾルン / Pantsāzorun (Panzersorn? Panzerzorn?)? Are these some kind of German portmanteau?

Are we to assume that the Megaroad-13 / Varauta colony included many humans of German descent?

Edited March 27, 2018 by SMS007

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

What is the naming intent behind the Fz-109 エルガーゾルン / Erugāzorun (Elgersorn? Elgerzorn?) and the Az-130 パンツァーゾルン / Pantsāzorun (Panzersorn? Panzerzorn?)? Are these some kind of German portmanteau?

The names are carried over from Kawamori's Air Cavalry Chronicles series concept, where they were the names of the ZaiBach Empire transformable fighters.  Beyond that, I'm not sure... I only took half of one semester of German in college, and that was because my academic advisor screwed up some paperwork.

Macross Chronicle romanizes their names as Elgarsoln, Panzersoln, and Zaubergern.  There's some recognizable German roots there, like Panzer being "Armor" and Zauber being "Magic", but the rest... I have no idea, and neither does Google Translate.  I can ask some friends of mine who work for ZF Friedrichschafen later this week.

 

1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

Are we to assume that the Megaroad-13 / Varauta colony included many humans of German descent?

Not that I'm aware... the Blue Rhinoceros team officers who are running the show in the Macross 7 PLUS episode "Spiritia Dreaming" having vaguely German names (Ivano Gunther and Autolmauer), though the other two named characters from the colony don't (Chelsea Scarlett and Irina Hayakawa).

[Valkyrie Driver]

10 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Are we to assume that the Megaroad-13 / Varauta colony included many humans of German descent?

Or we are meant to infer that German is a direct descendant of the Protoculture language. 

Panzer is typically refers to tanks. Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck, Panzergrenadiers... all relate to tanks in some way, the first 2 being anti-tank weapons, and the third being mechanized heavy infantry. 

[Seto Kaiba]

On 3/27/2018 at 7:55 AM, Valkyrie Driver said:

Or we are meant to infer that German is a direct descendant of the Protoculture language. 

Given that Zentradi is arguably a dialect of the Protoculture language, it seems unlikely... the two languages don't sound anything like.  I wonder if it's the influence of the personnel who ended up possessed by the Protodeviln... Ivano Gunther and Cpt. Autolmauer, both of whom have German-sounding names.

 

 

 

[Valkyrie Driver]

On 4/4/2018 at 10:22 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Given that Zentradi is arguably a dialect of the Protoculture language, it seems unlikely... the two languages don't sound anything like.  I wonder if it's the influence of the personnel who ended up possessed by the Protodeviln... Ivano Gunther and Cpt. Autolmauer, both of whom have German-sounding names.

German, Swedish, Dutch, Frisian, Norwegian, and Middle English are all Germanic languages, but sound nothing alike despite sharing a common root. I get what you're saying, and I think you're probably correct. I was throwing out the possibility.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Valkyrie Driver

[SMS007]

Do we know for certain if the SV-52 Oryol is named for Oryol the city / Oryol Oblast? I would guess as much, but Macross the Ride didn't exactly have a high romanization budget.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oryol

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Do we know for certain if the SV-52 Oryol is named for Oryol the city / Oryol Oblast? I would guess as much, but Macross the Ride didn't exactly have a high romanization budget.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oryol

I always had the impression that it was named after a bird.  In this case, Oryol is an alternate spelling to Orel, which translates into "Eagle" from Russian.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Do we know for certain if the SV-52 Oryol is named for Oryol the city / Oryol Oblast? I would guess as much, but Macross the Ride didn't exactly have a high romanization budget.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oryol

As @sketchley said, it's the Russian word for "Eagle"... the Sv-52 in question even has wings designed with feather-like control surfaces (primary remiges).

Magdalena Zielonaska is, evidence would suggest, Polish rather than Russian.  Her family's company has a name referencing an offensive in the liberation of Poland by the Red Army (Vistula & Oder, the two rivers in Poland that marked the approximate bounds of the Vistula-Oder Offensive that reclaimed most of Poland from the Nazis).

[SMS007]

How many other fighter models are equipped with the EX-Gear? Off the top of my head I want to say that at least definitely includes every version of the YF-25 Prophecy, VF-25 Messiah, YF-29 Durandal / Perceval, YF-30 Chronos, and VF-31 Kairos / Siegfried.

Edited April 25, 2018 by SMS007

[Master Dex]

44 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

How many other fighter models are equipped with the EX-Gear? Off the top of my head I want to say that at least includes every version of the YF-25 Prophecy, VF-25 Messiah, YF-29 Durandal, YF-30 Chronos, and VF-31 Kairos / Siegfried.

The VF-171EX was a version of the VF-171 retrofitted to work with Ex-Gear (sort of a stop gap before Frontier NUNS could mass produce VF-25s for themselves in general). I am unsure if other VF-171s, including those in Delta, had Ex-Gear retrofits or not.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

How many other fighter models are equipped with the EX-Gear? Off the top of my head I want to say that at least includes every version of the YF-25 Prophecy, VF-25 Messiah, YF-29 Durandal, YF-30 Chronos, and VF-31 Kairos / Siegfried.

Anything derived from the YF-24 Evolution uses EX-Gear natively... that's the YF-24 Evolution, VF-24, YF/VF-25, YF/VF-27, YF-29, YF-29B, YF-30, VF-31, and VF-31 Siegfried.  If they canonically exist, the YF-26 and YF-31 would have as well.

As for non-5th Gen VFs... the VF-171EX was the first time a 4th Gen (now technically 4.5 Gen) adopted EX-Gear in-series.  In events dated before that in Macross the Ride, the VF-19EF Caliburn and VF-19ACTIVE "Nothung" had it.  As a Caliburn derivative, it's very likely Isamu's VF-19EF/A Excalibur Advance has it as well, as well as the VF-0 Kai "Zeak" (which is built mainly from YF-25 parts).  There is also the VF-1EX in Macross Delta to consider, which was an EX-Gear-retrofitted VF-1 for training purposes.

 

[Sildani]

What was the point of building the Zeak, anyway? Surely it would’ve been more practical to just have a YF-25 in the race, than try to throw its systems into a decrepit VF-0 airframe. It couldn’t have been for secrecy, since I don’t believe anyone in-universe would have bought the idea that an ummodified VF-0 would have been entered. Everyone had to have known it was very heavily breathed on anyway. 

[Seto Kaiba]

26 minutes ago, Sildani said:

What was the point of building the Zeak, anyway?

I can only assume it was either a drunken bar bet or a dare... or Katori Brown Robbins wanted to see how much gear she could guilt LAI and the General Galaxy Guld Works into giving her.

 

26 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Surely it would’ve been more practical to just have a YF-25 in the race, than try to throw its systems into a decrepit VF-0 airframe. It couldn’t have been for secrecy, since I don’t believe anyone in-universe would have bought the idea that an ummodified VF-0 would have been entered. Everyone had to have known it was very heavily breathed on anyway. 

Considering part of the race takes place in a vacuum, it's a safe bet an unmodified VF-0 wouldn't be entered... a VF-0+ might be.

Just throwing a YF-25 into the race probably wouldn't have gone over well.  There was enough grumbling over the way corporate teams like Team Shinsei were fielding custom 4th Generation VFs that no civilian could possibly afford, leading to an accusation that the corporate teams were trying to dominate the league through sheer financial power.

[SMS007]

Who gave Hakuna Aoba YF-25 parts for the Zeak and why, anyway? It's a 改 fighter, implying secondary aftermarket customization unlike the developer-sponsored mod that is the Nothung, as I understand things, yes?

Edited April 25, 2018 by SMS007

[Seto Kaiba]

13 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Who gave Hakuna Aoba YF-25 parts for the Zeak and why, anyway? It's a 改 fighter, implying secondary aftermarket customization unlike the developer-sponsored mod that is the Nothung, as I understand things, yes?

SMS and LAI did.

The reason it's a 改 is the base frame was an actual VF-0A before Katori got her mitts on it, and it's a kludge of parts provided by LAI and General Galaxy.

By that point in the story, Hakuna Aoba's past as a NUNS Special Forces pilot had come out and he was eyebrow-deep in the whole conflict with Fasces.  After getting royally REKT in his VF-1X++, presumably they felt compelled to give him something that he'd be able to not die in when the enemy was using 4th Gen equivalent or better fighters.

[Sildani]

Say, Seto, is there a pic somewhere of the acceptable markings and callouts the YF-19 wore during its stint at New Edwards?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Sildani said:

Say, Seto, is there a pic somewhere of the acceptable markings and callouts the YF-19 wore during its stint at New Edwards?

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-19 Excalibur's Caution Signs and MODEX section would probably be the most complete version.

[Gerli]

 

Ehhhhh?

[Focslain]

Looks like his helping in the design of the weapons pack for the 1/20, at least in the muddled google translate of the tweet.

[Gerli]

 

 

New (And secret-confidential) Valkyrie

[Sildani]

Three hardpoints under each wing? Since when?

[Gerli]

4 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Three hardpoints under each wing? Since when?

More Dakka...?

[Seto Kaiba]

54 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Three hardpoints under each wing? Since when?

Something that shows up a fair bit in model kits for the Super Dimension Fortress Macross series version of the VF-1.  The series animation budget being what it was, they didn't show the pylons holding the three RMS-1 thermonuclear reaction missiles to the wings in Ep27, so it looked like a three pylon configuration to the viewer.

Macross: Do You Remember Love? later showed that there was a double mount pylon for those RMS-1s.

Variable Fighter Master File also picked up on the three pylon configuration and cited it as being an alternate wing configuration for the VF-1 Valkyrie.

[Sildani]

Seto: please ID grey fighter to the left of Yang. From Plus the Movie. Thanks very much!

 

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, Sildani said:

Seto: please ID grey fighter to the left of Yang. From Plus the Movie. Thanks very much!

 

Really, I have no idea.

It's one of several background designs in Macross Plus that have not been conclusively identified in any official publication that I am aware of.  It's commonly thought/suspected that the black fighter to Jan's left (our right) is the version of the VF-14 Vampire that appeared in Macross 7 PLUS.

But for that VF-22-esque canopy, I would say it looks like an old Advanced Valkyrie design (this one) that Macross Chronicle adopted as the VF-X-11 Advanced Fighter Technology Integration prototype.¹  I can't think of a reason New Edwards Test Flight Center would've held onto a fifteen year old initial prototype for the previous generation main fighter though, so maybe it's an earlier experimental aircraft in the YF-21's design chain?

(Also, very slight pet peeve... there's no "g" sound in his first name.  It's Jan - pronounced "Yon".)

 

1. Which is not to be confused with the VF-X-11 No.1 and No.2 prototypes from Macross M3, which should probably have been YF-11 No.1 & 2 as they're recognizably the Shinsei Industry VF-11 Thunderbolt... just No.1 lacks canards and No.2 has them.

[SMS007]

13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

(Also, very slight pet peeve... there's no "g" sound in his first name.  It's Jan - pronounced "Yon".)

Haha, I see that Sildani is based in North America but perhaps it is worthwhile to specify for the benefit of all members here that you mean “yon” in an American English accent.

(Yack Deculture I hate the stupid Great Vowel Shift.)

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Haha, I see that Sildani is based in North America but perhaps it is worthwhile to specify for the benefit of all members here that you mean “yon” in an American English accent.

(Yack Deculture I hate the stupid Great Vowel Shift.)

Probably should've phonetically spelled it "Yahn"... but yeah, I figured most folks who weren't from America would be familiar enough with the Czech/Dutch/Finnish/German/Polish/Scandinavian name "Jan" that it'd get a pass.

[DWN013]

On 3/19/2018 at 11:40 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Because the combat in Macross Frontier takes place almost exclusively in space, they seem to have preferred to use FAST Packs to lug their missiles around.

Stories set mostly or entirely in atmosphere like Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy aren't at all shy about having the VF-25s use their underwing pylons.  Every VF-25 in-game uses the six pylon stations on the wings for varying mixes of weaponry including the multi-lockon missiles, the single lockon Itano Circus variety, and occasionally reaction missiles.

 

Building on the above, I'd like to formally propose a conclusion of mine here that I've been thinking about for a while:  The episode 1 loadout of Henry Gilliam, and Satellite's "non-valk accuracy" in general.  I was reading a thread on here a while ago, discussing the VF-31A's useless drone charger that is featured on both the Bandai DX and Satellite's in-show model.  Someone made the excellent point that Satellite was not 'valk-accurate' in this case, as why the hell would the VF-31A carry the dead weight of a drone charger.  I don't have the VF-31 Master file but I believe someone pointed out that in the 31 MF or some other non-show notes, the 31A has a micromissile pod instead of a drone charger for that half of the weapons pod.

How does this pertain to VF-25 hardpoints?  Glad you asked; I can prove that Gilliam's loadout for Frontier episode 1 actually looked like this, despite Satellite's show model:

Site: http://sp.macross.jp/modelers/?id=113  Glad I found this modeler, a picture's worth a thousand words after all.

In MF episode 1, Gilliam jettisons his super pack to pursue the red soldier Vajra into Island one (as he will need to fly in-atmosphere) and is visually carrying nothing but his gunpod.  However, when he first attacks the vajra, he clearly does so with missiles that resemble the AMM-101. 

See Gilliam_missile.jpg.  VF-25's don't carry internal missile ordnance, therefore Gilliam must have carried AMM-101s on his outer hardpoints and retained them when he Jett'd his super packs.  As a side note, I totally intend on building this loadout once I can get my hands on a hasegawa super VF-25 (already have the normal hasegawa 25 with the 18 AMM-101s.)