Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Wolf-1]

For what purpose or enemy, in particular, was the VB6 Monster given a third transformation into battroid for?  Given the transformation and placement of its weapons afterward I fail to see any advantage or strategic value in it. 

[Sildani]

So. Just got the ordnance from the 171 Super parts. Pretty sure the missiles and rocket launchers aren’t supposed to be just that monochromatic grey. Any official word on how they’re painted and marked?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Wolf-1 said:

For what purpose or enemy, in particular, was the VB6 Monster given a third transformation into battroid for?  Given the transformation and placement of its weapons afterward I fail to see any advantage or strategic value in it. 

All three Macross Chronicle Mechanic Sheets for the VB-6 Konig Monster are in agreement that, of the three modes the VB-6 was designed with (Shuttle, GERWALK, and Destroid) the humanoid Destroid mode is mostly useless because it's principally meant for use in close quarters combat... something an artillery piece habitually deployed to shell enemy ships and fortifications doesn't do much unless something has gone horribly, HORRIBLY wrong.

It is noted that the use of Destroid mode does not prevent the unit from bringing its railguns to bear though.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Sildani said:

So. Just got the ordnance from the 171 Super parts. Pretty sure the missiles and rocket launchers aren’t supposed to be just that monochromatic grey. Any official word on how they’re painted and marked?

They're shown as basically monochrome dark gray on the CG models for Macross Frontier and Macross Frontier's two movies... the missiles have little colored blisters on the nose and a band of red or yellow (I can't tell which) near the tail, but otherwise they're not marked at all that I can see.  That six-tube micro-missile pod is just a flat gray.

[Sildani]

Nothing in Master File? That’s disappointing. 

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Nothing in Master File? That’s disappointing. 

The missiles in Master File either aren't the same ones as the ones on the toy, or are painted a different color in the book.

[Sildani]

Ok. Last question. Any idea what they’re supposed to be?

[Focslain]

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

All three Macross Chronicle Mechanic Sheets for the VB-6 Konig Monster are in agreement that, of the three modes the VB-6 was designed with (Shuttle, GERWALK, and Destroid) the humanoid Destroid mode is mostly useless because it's principally meant for use in close quarters combat... something an artillery piece habitually deployed to shell enemy ships and fortifications doesn't do much unless something has gone horribly, HORRIBLY wrong.

It is noted that the use of Destroid mode does not prevent the unit from bringing its railguns to bear though.

I didn't even know the Monster had a third form. A quick google image search got me the look. At least the Destroid form will be easier to make from a broadside.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Ok. Last question. Any idea what they’re supposed to be?

Almost certainly not the ones outlined in the Master File book.  

The individual missile on its own is the Bifors AAMM-05D medium-range anti-air missile.  The triple rack is three Bifors/L.A.I. AAMS-02A short-range high-maneuverability anti-air missile.  The pod is a micro-missile launcher pod like the VF-1's, equipped with Sentinel FXA-60A high-speed armor-piercing rockets (presumably an evolved version of the VF-1's Grenade Crusher type).

 

6 minutes ago, Focslain said:

I didn't even know the Monster had a third form. A quick google image search got me the look. At least the Destroid form will be easier to make from a broadside.

You could've checked our M3 articles for it... we've got pics of the Destroid mode there. lol

It's almost the VB-6's best kept secret, since you could only use it in one level in Macross VF-X2, and it takes a dog's age to unlock the unwieldy-to-the-point-of-uselessness VB-6 in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, while it otherwise only gets used in the final episode of Macross Frontier and in the first movie's promo for the second movie.

[Master Dex]

I have a good question, and I even checked M3 first just to be sure, but I don't think anyone has ever covered anything on this craft in my attached images. It appears in the 5th episode of Frontier at the end as a ship that has barely escaped the Macross Galaxy fleet after the Vajra attack it. It appears to be acting as a messenger since the fold faults were disrupting communication between the fleets. It doesn't look like a variable fighter, and it clearly has a canopy that sizes the craft to a one or two person vehicle, and it has no folding ability of its own since a fold booster can be seen attached to it. So anyone know anything?

[Seto Kaiba]

39 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

I have a good question, and I even checked M3 first just to be sure, but I don't think anyone has ever covered anything on this craft in my attached images. It appears in the 5th episode of Frontier at the end as a ship that has barely escaped the Macross Galaxy fleet after the Vajra attack it. It appears to be acting as a messenger since the fold faults were disrupting communication between the fleets. It doesn't look like a variable fighter, and it clearly has a canopy that sizes the craft to a one or two person vehicle, and it has no folding ability of its own since a fold booster can be seen attached to it. So anyone know anything?

Yeah, we got nothin'... this one's not covered in any depth in any Macross publication.

Even Macross Chronicle ignores it.  You'd think it would've at least landed in an Extra Report on a quasi-related sheet like a Mechanic Sheet, History Sheet, or Timeline Sheet, but no dice.  All we know is that it's manned, it's approximately fighter-sized, and like every other craft in its size class it needs a fold booster to travel interstellar distances.  Presumably it's got a BDI system cockpit, since the canopy is covered by an armored shield like the VF-27's.

If the streamlined design and canards are any indication it was an all-regime craft, and its pilot identifies as a member of the Macross Galaxy corporate army (NUNS), but it has no obvious weaponry.  It's too small to be a shuttle or courier craft, there's no reason for an escape pod to be equipped with wings and a fold booster.  All I can think of is it must be some kind of two-seater VIP transport aircraft or a reconnaissance plane.

[Sildani]

Looks like it’s based off of a heavily modified VF-4. Could it be a pleasure craft or a racer, I wonder?

[Seto Kaiba]

9 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Looks like it’s based off of a heavily modified VF-4. Could it be a pleasure craft or a racer, I wonder?

With a military pilot and military-issue fold booster?  Seems unlikely.

Apart from a vague similarity in wing structure there ain't much VF-4 there... this looks far too different to be derived from a VF-4.

[Master Dex]

Pity there is no info, I kinda like it. Still it is rare to see almost anything in this franchise not be meticulously covered by some source lol. We may be getting spoiled heh. 

[Valkyrie Driver]

I really like that craft. I wish that we had more information on it. It looks kinda like a cross between a VF-4 and a VF-2SS. Only a little though. It doesn't look like it transforms, though if you didn't know anything about macross, you wouldn't know that the fighters transform. 

[Sildani]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

With a military pilot and military-issue fold booster?  Seems unlikely.

Apart from a vague similarity in wing structure there ain't much VF-4 there... this looks far too different to be derived from a VF-4.

Eh. I figured it might have been a case of “grab whatever flies, we're DOOMED!” 

As for the design, we’ve got a thin nose flaring out into a wide vaguely delta wing, pod-mounted engines, canards, vertical stabilizers mounted on the engines... it’s like the designer had a VF-4 model on his desk, needed a... something... for this scene, looked at his model and thought “that’ll do.”

Edited December 22, 2017 by Sildani

[SMS007]

Why is Rion Sakaki piloting a YF-25 at the start of Macross 30 as opposed to a production-model VF-25? It's 2060. Is he just really attached to that individual machine?

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Pity there is no info, I kinda like it. Still it is rare to see almost anything in this franchise not be meticulously covered by some source lol. We may be getting spoiled heh. 

Yeah, there are still a few areas in Macross's mechanical setting where things haven't been properly explained yet.  The fold wave system and its big brother, the fold dimensional resonance system, are one example of something where all we know is that they "just work".  I live in hope that my translations, or those of the far more prolific sketchley, will stumble upon the answers to a few of those unanswered questions in time.

 

1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

Why is Rion Sakaki piloting a YF-25 at the start of Macross 30 as opposed to a production-model VF-25? It's 2060. Is he just really attached to that individual machine?

Rion being assigned to a YF-25 Prophecy at the start of Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy has a lot to do with the fact that the YF-25 in question was destined for disassembly.

He was sent to Uroboros from the Sephira SMS branch to deliver that YF-25 Prophecy to Maj. Aisha Blanchett of the Uroboros SMS branch so that she could part it out, with the semi-clandestine goal being to use said parts to repair the damage the YF-30 Chronos prototype had sustained in an earlier testing accident and bring it closer to completion by adopting the YF-25's ARIEL II "Brunhilde" airframe control AI system.  (That's why Aisha wasn't too put out that Rion managed to wreck his YF-25 fighting Havamal up there in orbit... the bits she wanted most all survived the crash: the cockpit, the airframe control AI, and a pilot to replace the injured test pilot her prototype had hospitalized.)

(This is actually acknowledged in the VF-31A's spec, in which the ARIEL II airframe control AI used is noted as Brunhilde+, a more refined version of the same Brunhilde used by the YF-25 and YF-30.)

[SMS007]

If the Macross 29 fleet's name is spoken as Two-Nine「ツーナイン」/ (Tsū Nain), then does the same pattern apply to Macross 17 and Macross 23? (the fleets who sent two of the quarter Macrosses in Sayonara no Tsubasa) And for that matter, Battle 13 in VF-X2? (which as I recall, is not attached to a New Macross fleet but rather is a specially-assigned defense ship for Earth)

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, SMS007 said:

If the Macross 29 fleet's name is spoken as Two-Nine「ツーナイン」/ (Tsū Nain), then does the same pattern apply to Macross 17 and Macross 23? (the fleets who sent two of the quarter Macrosses in Sayonara no Tsubasa) And for that matter, Battle 13 in VF-X2? (which as I recall, is not attached to a New Macross fleet but rather is a specially-assigned defense ship for Earth)

No, it doesn't.  In fact, 29 being mispronounced as two-nine is simply because someone (or some people) on the production side hasn't learned English numbers correctly.

E.g.:  "News 23" is spoken as "News Two-Three", yet it airs daily at 23:00.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 12/28/2017 at 11:49 PM, SMS007 said:

If the Macross 29 fleet's name is spoken as Two-Nine「ツーナイン」/ (Tsū Nain), then does the same pattern apply to Macross 17 and Macross 23? (the fleets who sent two of the quarter Macrosses in Sayonara no Tsubasa) And for that matter, Battle 13 in VF-X2? (which as I recall, is not attached to a New Macross fleet but rather is a specially-assigned defense ship for Earth)

Hard to say, given that prior to Macross Frontier the only emigrant fleets whose designations were spoken aloud had single digit designations... e.g. Macross 1, Macross 5, Macross 7, Macross 9.  I don't recall, offhand, whether they mentioned the Megaroad 13 fleet aloud in Macross 7.

I'd expect that the "official" one is probably a matter of personal preference on the part of any given fleet's government and its constituents, but in all likelihood both would be in use in the fleet.  The military would almost certainly be using the NATO/ICAO "Two Nine" call in radio communications to minimize the potential for confusion, while "Twenty-Nine" would likely be used in informal/non-operational conditions and by civilians.  (The obvious exception being the Macross-13, for which the bridge crew of the CV-565 Saratoga II refer to with "Thirteen" rather than "One Three".)

Admittedly the Macross 29 fleet's use of "Two Nine" is rather odd, given that the fleet in question abolished its military component some years before Macross the Musiculture's main story in 2062.  Mind you, Macross 29 is also the only 4th or 5th Generation emigrant fleet we know of that doesn't have an actual name too... something that seems to have become the norm at some point after the Macross 11 fleet's hybrid of City-class with a Milky Road system and physically-connected Island-class departed.¹

 

On 12/29/2017 at 3:34 AM, sketchley said:

No, it doesn't.  In fact, 29 being mispronounced as two-nine is simply because someone (or some people) on the production side hasn't learned English numbers correctly.

Or it's someone who's used to the NATO/ICAO phonetic alphabet and figure code...

 

1. One has to wonder if this bizarre design choice is sufficient to consider the City-11 to be a Generation 3.5 emigrant ship or something of that sort?

[SMS007]

I hope we eventually get noun names for Macross 17 and 23 so they're not just lonely in lists alongside Valiant (16)¹, Galaxy (21), Frontier (25), and the yet to be numbered Olympia, Odysseus, and Challenger. 

 

1. As I understand from Japanese Wikipedia and other people's Internet posts, Macross Valiant has never been alternatively referred to as "Macross 16", but they are the 46th Super Long Distance Immigration Fleet, and if Macross 7 is the 37th, Macross Galaxy is the 51st, and Macross Frontier is the 55th, then 2 + 2 = 4.

Edited December 31, 2017 by SMS007

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Or it's someone who's used to the NATO/ICAO phonetic alphabet and figure code...

Nah.  It happens too consistently in things that are NOT related (E.g: the aforementioned "News 23 (Two-three)").

One must keep in mind that most people who consume anime in Japan (the target audience), are not English majors (let alone military nuts), and the content is geared for them (dare I say it?  The lowest common denominator).

Us English speaking fans of Macross are quite the polar opposite, as many of us have both a deep interest in learning Japanese, as well as being military nuts! 

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, sketchley said:

One must keep in mind that most people who consume anime in Japan (the target audience), are not English majors (let alone military nuts), and the content is geared for them (dare I say it?  The lowest common denominator).

Us English speaking fans of Macross are quite the polar opposite, as many of us have both a deep interest in learning Japanese, as well as being military nuts! 

Eh, if it were any other franchise... but Macross's creators are military nuts who operate on a level above even most of us.  They're not shy about putting out reams of material about fighters and throwing all kinds of obscure military references into Macross shows... 

[SMS007]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:34 AM, sketchley said:

E.g.:  "News 23" is spoken as "News Two-Three", yet it airs daily at 23:00.

...? What is this from?

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh, if it were any other franchise... but Macross's creators are military nuts who operate on a level above even most of us.  They're not shy about putting out reams of material about fighters and throwing all kinds of obscure military references into Macross shows... 

I'm not disagreeing about the creators.  My point is about the ultimate consumer.

... and Kawamori-san has made a point of deliberately avoiding anything that can confuse the casual viewer.  E.g.: the portrayal of Zentradi ships after the conclusion of the First Interstellar War, or the unexpected appearance of the VF-171 as the main fighter - a visual design choice that necessitated a lot of retcon changes.

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

...? What is this from?

http://www.tbs.co.jp/news23/

[SMS007]

I'm with Seto Kaiba. This franchise has consistently done things like pronounce VF-25 as "bui-efu nijūgo". I favor the explanation that Macross 29 as "tsū nain" is just an unusual creator intention.

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, SMS007 said:

I favor the explanation that Macross 29 as "tsū nain" is just an unusual creator intention.

Yes, with the aforementioned 'Engrish' nod to make it more accessible to the lowest common denominator.  :wink:

[Seto Kaiba]

17 hours ago, sketchley said:

I'm not disagreeing about the creators.  My point is about the ultimate consumer.

Sometimes the creators do what the creators wanna do, and it's up to the audience to catch on... the creators of Macross did enough of that in the original series that the American DVDs from AnimEigo got a half-dozen pages out of just in-jokes and other references that wouldn't be immediately obvious to the casual viewer.

Remember, Macross is an anime franchise created and run by otaku.  

 

17 hours ago, sketchley said:

... and Kawamori-san has made a point of deliberately avoiding anything that can confuse the casual viewer. 

Except when he doesn't...

 

17 hours ago, sketchley said:

E.g.: the portrayal of Zentradi ships after the conclusion of the First Interstellar War, [...]

Did we forget about the Neo Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class ship in the Macross 5 fleet in Macross 7, the NUNS 33rd Marines in Macross Frontier, and NUNS Marine garrison on Al Shahal in the Macross Delta series?  He hasn't been as blatant about reusing them as Macross II's creators were, but he's most assuredly not avoiding them.  

 

17 hours ago, sketchley said:

 or the unexpected appearance of the VF-171 as the main fighter - a visual design choice that necessitated a lot of retcon changes.

That one's a matter of opinion, and struck me as odd for two reasons:

1. It's only the VF-19 Custom and VF-19A that look hero mecha-y no matter what.  The 2nd production type, e.g. VF-19F, looks perfectly fodder-y in the standard coat of Kill Me Khaki (which may be why they're painted that color in Macross R).
2. The VF-17 the VF-171's based on was also a hero mecha in Macross 7... it was Gamlin's main ride for pretty much the entire series.  

 

On the other hand, he's left in some really bewildering stuff like that Meltrandi fleet showing up out of the blue in "Fleet of the Strongest Women" despite DYRL? being an in-universe docu-drama, or a half-dozen different depictions of First Space War events in retrospective, leading to "whose aesthetic was it anyway?".

[sketchley]

13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Sometimes the creators do what the creators wanna do, and it's up to the audience to catch on... the creators of Macross did enough of that in the original series that the American DVDs from AnimEigo got a half-dozen pages out of just in-jokes and other references that wouldn't be immediately obvious to the casual viewer.

Remember, Macross is an anime franchise created and run by otaku.  

 

Except when he doesn't...

(throws hands up in air)

Personally I think you guys are reading too much into a line of dialogue...

Now, I won't mention such things like living in Japan and personally trying to teach English to a few of the Japanese anime otaku consumers.  Nope.  just going to stick to the nationally broadcast news show.

How can one explain a major mistake in English there?  Well, aside from the average viewer in Japan being a non-speaker, and most remembering only a smattering of words from public education.  It's definitely not a show run by otaku, using NATO code words. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, sketchley said:

(throws hands up in air)

OK, now wave 'em around like you just don't care... 

 

Quote

Personally I think you guys are reading too much into a line of dialogue...

[...]

How can one explain a major mistake in English there?  Well, aside from the average viewer in Japan being a non-speaker, and most remembering only a smattering of words from public education.  It's definitely not a show run by otaku, using NATO code words. 

Remember mate, I didn't say it was the explanation... just that it was a possible explanation given that we are in fact talking about a series/franchise created by a rabid military aviation otaku with a demonstrated fondness for American programs and some of the pals from his Gundam fanclub.  Note that I even said that interpretation doesn't make sense in context, given that Macross 29 was bereft of a military component.

(As a side note, anyone familiar with aviation in Japan would know the NATO alphabet... because, as I noted earlier, it's also the International Civil Aviation Organization's official phonetic alphabet used for civilian air traffic.  Even domestic flights inside the boundaries of Japan use it.  And we know Macross's creators are at least familiar with this, because it's some of the first spoken dialog in Macross Frontier's first episode if you don't count "Yak Deculture!"... in conspicuous English, no less, as the ICAO/IATA mandates.  "This is G F S One Zero Eight, belong to galaxy starliner.  Reply to me, Frontier Control.")

 

EDIT: Actually, we also hear Makina do a variation of it in the first episode of Delta when she identifies the model of Regult the NUNS Marines are using... reading off the single digits rather than the whole number, albeit in Japanese.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Remember mate, I didn't say it was the explanation... just that it was a possible explanation (...)

Thanks.
 

Quote

OK, now wave 'em around like you just don't care... 

 

Off to do that right now (it's still winter holiday for most of us in Japan).

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, sketchley said:

Off to do that right now (it's still winter holiday for most of us in Japan).

Just on the off chance... d'you have any info on the connection between the Lagrange 5 front line station and the ARMD-class?  Was the latter simply based on the former, or was the front line station the prototype for the ARMD-class?

I'm catching up on a chunk of my translation backlog and was working on one of my favorite hobby horses... SVX-12's VF-0-NF Phoenix testbed unit for thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.  I've got most of its details sussed out (it's a modified VF-0A outfitted with a pair of the FF-1999 engines used by the QF-3000 Ghost) but its markings include an affiliation for ARMD-00 Constitution, which isn't part of the first production lot of ARMD-class ships.  I'm still digging, but I'm wondering if the idea to convert the space platform concept into a ship was tested on the L5 station first for the sake of expediency...

[SMS007]

Why do the VF-17 and VF-171 from General Galaxy lack the battroid head turret-less design of practically every other fighter in the Galaxy design family (SV-51, VF-9. VF-14, Fz-109, Sv-154, Sv-262)?

[Sir Galahad®]

SV-51 wasn't created by General Galaxy, General Galaxy was founded in 2017 

The YF-21/VF-22S has a single head turret

As for FZ-109, the F Variant has head turrets (and if you look at the VF-14 initially it had turrets, from the Macross 7 extra episode, although it's final design is the M3 game)