Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[cheemingwan1234]

On 3/13/2025 at 12:37 PM, Shawn said:

It you think the VF-1A Cannon Fodder was bad, imagine being strapped into the Regult-H "Iron Can" with reduced armor and firepower!

Well, at least you're not an Imperial Guardsman in Warhammer 40,000. You can still get  shot even if your side wins.

I'll take my chances with a Regult H or a VF-1A any day of the week.

Edited March 19 by cheemingwan1234

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Well, at least you're not an Imperial Guardsman in Warhammer 40,000. You can still get  shot even if your side wins.

I'll take my chances with a Regult H or a VF-1A any day of the week.

To be fair, the Zentradi and the Mardook in Macross absolutely do the same thing and have a "We have reserves" attitude on par with the worst Guard regimental commanders.

Remember, Boddole Zer wanted to wipe out whole branch fleets worth of his own forces for being "contaminated" by Earth's culture in the original series.  He also destroyed tens of thousands of his own ships just for being in the way of the shot he wanted to take at the Meltrandi mobile fortress in DYRL?.  Ingues in Macross II also starts destroying his own fleet en masse simply for refusing an order to employ unnecessary levels of overkill in a fight they'd already effectively won and sank one of his own flagships because its crew had been exposed to one Earth song.

(Never mind all the cases of them sacrificing whole ships and divisions of troops just to scout out the enemy.)

[pengbuzz]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

To be fair, the Zentradi and the Mardook in Macross absolutely do the same thing and have a "We have reserves" attitude on par with the worst Guard regimental commanders.

Remember, Boddole Zer wanted to wipe out whole branch fleets worth of his own forces for being "contaminated" by Earth's culture in the original series.  He also destroyed tens of thousands of his own ships just for being in the way of the shot he wanted to take at the Meltrandi mobile fortress in DYRL?.  Ingues in Macross II also starts destroying his own fleet en masse simply for refusing an order to employ unnecessary levels of overkill in a fight they'd already effectively won and sank one of his own flagships because its crew had been exposed to one Earth song.

(Never mind all the cases of them sacrificing whole ships and divisions of troops just to scout out the enemy.)

No kind of fire like "friendly fire", eh?

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, pengbuzz said:

No kind of fire like "friendly fire", eh?

Like they say... "Friendly fire - isn't".

As a clone army on a scale almost unrivaled in sci-fi, Macross's Zentradi are shown to have a pretty cavalier attitude towards casualties.  Even benevolent Zentradi commanders like Vrlitwhai are shown to have zero qualms about sacrificing whole ships and crews to lure enemies out of hiding, and who could forget that one of Vrlitwhai and Laplamiz's key colleagues is a psychotically reckless commander with the sobriquet "The Ally-Killer" for his strategic tendency to get as many of his own men killed as the enemy's.

Mind you, the whole bit about the Imperial Guard's cruelty in Warhammer 40,000 is oversold by its fans too...

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Like they say... "Friendly fire - isn't".

As a clone army on a scale almost unrivaled in sci-fi, Macross's Zentradi are shown to have a pretty cavalier attitude towards casualties.  Even benevolent Zentradi commanders like Vrlitwhai are shown to have zero qualms about sacrificing whole ships and crews to lure enemies out of hiding, and who could forget that one of Vrlitwhai and Laplamiz's key colleagues is a psychotically reckless commander with the sobriquet "The Ally-Killer" for his strategic tendency to get as many of his own men killed as the enemy's.

Mind you, the whole bit about the Imperial Guard's cruelty in Warhammer 40,000 is oversold by its fans too...

Good point on all that. Guess the Zentraedi are experts on not caring how many eggs they break to make an omelet! lol

[JB0]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Like they say... "Friendly fire - isn't".

As a clone army on a scale almost unrivaled in sci-fi, Macross's Zentradi are shown to have a pretty cavalier attitude towards casualties.  Even benevolent Zentradi commanders like Vrlitwhai are shown to have zero qualms about sacrificing whole ships and crews to lure enemies out of hiding, and who could forget that one of Vrlitwhai and Laplamiz's key colleagues is a psychotically reckless commander with the sobriquet "The Ally-Killer" for his strategic tendency to get as many of his own men killed as the enemy's.

Mind you, the whole bit about the Imperial Guard's cruelty in Warhammer 40,000 is oversold by its fans too...

Said ally-killer is also shown sacrificing one of his guys because he was ordered to fire a warning shot but he wanted to launch a direct attack. 

Was just "You know, we've got an old hand up here on the turret, and sometimes old hands can slip". And then after the shot, the zentradi gunnery station explodes like they're in Star Trek. No witnesses.

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, JB0 said:

Said ally-killer is also shown sacrificing one of his guys because he was ordered to fire a warning shot but he wanted to launch a direct attack. 

Was just "You know, we've got an old hand up here on the turret, and sometimes old hands can slip". And then after the shot, the zentradi gunnery station explodes like they're in Star Trek. No witnesses.

Even before that, the first shot he ever fires onscreen is at one of his own men for breaking ranks and nearly spoiling their ambush mission on Mars.

That the guy actually survives both the near-destruction of his Regult and the ensuing several-hundred-meter plummet back down to the canyon floor inside said nearly-destroyed Regult is a stunning testament to the durability of both the Regult and the Zentradi body.  That nobody in the unit is at all surprised or put off by this, and Quamzin's own remarks, suggest this is normal discipline for Quamzin's division.  

(Then, of course, there's the events of "Love Concert" about 14 episodes later where Quamzin is having a "Stop running away!" argument with the troops under his command who are trying to defect while he's actively trying to kill them for not following orders.)

[cheemingwan1234]

On 3/20/2025 at 6:28 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Like they say... "Friendly fire - isn't".

As a clone army on a scale almost unrivaled in sci-fi, Macross's Zentradi are shown to have a pretty cavalier attitude towards casualties.  Even benevolent Zentradi commanders like Vrlitwhai are shown to have zero qualms about sacrificing whole ships and crews to lure enemies out of hiding, and who could forget that one of Vrlitwhai and Laplamiz's key colleagues is a psychotically reckless commander with the sobriquet "The Ally-Killer" for his strategic tendency to get as many of his own men killed as the enemy's.

Mind you, the whole bit about the Imperial Guard's cruelty in Warhammer 40,000 is oversold by its fans too...

Well, unless if it's the Skaven, yes-yes?

Well, wonder if the Protodevilin in Macross 7 used the same we have reserves tactics as the Zentraedi?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Well, unless if it's the Skaven, yes-yes?

Nonsense, everyone knows there are no such things as Skaven. 😉

Spoiler

Seriously though, nobody can compete with the Under-Empire when it comes to senseless self-destruction.  They're an entire species of Starscream-esque overly ambitious backstabbers.

The Imperium might kill its own troops if there's no other way, if they're seen things Man Was Not Meant To See, or if they've committed some heinous offense (by their own interesting standards)... but the Skaven?  Oy.  Their entire society is built on Betrayal for Fun and Profit and their entire concept of politics is built on the Klingon Promotion.  They're not even doing it out of malice or necessity, it's just what they do and might even be their method of self-regulating their population.

I love that that made into into the tabletop game too.  Skaven being so cavalier about death that they were the only army that could fire at enemy units locked in melee combat, because they simply didn't care if they hit their own people.

 

1 hour ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Well, wonder if the Protodevilin in Macross 7 used the same we have reserves tactics as the Zentraedi?

Almost certainly.

From what we know of the Protoculture's history, when the Protodeviln emerged and subjugated the planet they were created on they expanded in a manner not dissimilar to how the backstory of Halo describes the Flood outbreak of the Forerunner era.  Their forces would overrun the defenses of planets, capture as many people alive as possible, and then spiritia-drain and brainwash them into joining the Supervision Army, then take those fresh troops to the next planet to repeat the process.  The only reason they ultimately slowed down was they were running out of prospective victims and the Protodeviln themselves were weakning without new sources of spiritia to drain.  That was the opportunity which enabled the Protoculture to capture them and imprison them for eternity until that goob Ivano Gunther f'ed around and found out.

Their whole force was made up of whatever and whoever they could capture, so they almost certainly continued to use the same tactics their victims preferred with the additional advantage of the Zentradi being unable to effectively fight an offensive led by Protoculture troops due to indoctrination not to interfere with the Protoculture.

[PixelatedShinobi]

On 3/18/2025 at 10:45 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

That's halfway to an actual episode of Macross 7, where that muckraking tabloid journalist was trying to find scandals on Basara and Fire Bomber and having not much luck.  

Never forget the absolutely legendary way that episode ended. That had to have kept fans busy back in the day.

[Seto Kaiba]

17 hours ago, PixelatedShinobi said:

Never forget the absolutely legendary way that episode ended. That had to have kept fans busy back in the day.

The fujoshi probably had a field day with it... with one tabloid issue implying Gamlin and Basara might be "intimate". 

At least we know Photoshop is alive and well in the future.

[Seto Kaiba]

Veering once again back towards the VF-11 Master File.

According to its version of the VF-11's development history, there were more than twenty different technology demonstrators collectively filed under "XYF-11" prior to the actual YF-11 rollout.  Each aircraft was different, and was used to evaluate different technologies and design variations and each was refurbished or modified as necessary to facilitate tests needed for development.

There's a bit of talk about Shinsei itself in this section.  The Master File mentions that Shinsei Industry had been growing for 10 years since it was formed by a merger of Stonewell Bellcom and Shinnakasu in 2012.  It's said to have started out as a monolithic corporation and had more recently begun to spin off its various specialized divisions as subsidiaries and become a conglomerate.  At the time of the YF-11's development, the integrated design work was being carried by the parent Shinsei Industry company while various systems were contracted out to more than twenty different subsidiary and external design firms.

What Shinsei ended up with after the experimental phase was three separate variations of the YF-11 design competing against each other.  Shinsei's president decided to use the profits from mass production of the VF-5000 to bankroll construction of two prototypes to evaluate the rival designs.  One of the three design teams, which has been pursuing an engine-on-top design based on the VF-X-11, was disbanded and the remaining development teams were given a set of common requirements to build their prototypes to to make sure of a fair competition.  The two prototypes, then nicknamed Alpha and Bravo, were largely similar designs but differed in a few key points like:

• Cockpit position
• Nose volume
• Use of canards
• Laser turret location

This is followed by a bit of discussion about how those first two affect VF performance.  It talks a bit about how cockpit position affects the pilot's field of vision with a particular emphasis on landing.  Placing the cockpit farther forward was thought to be an adequate way to deal with the loss of field of vision during landing as the nose obscured the view of the runway.  They talk a bit abou how many early VFs had relatively large noses and cockpits closer to the center of gravity because of the difficulty in miniaturizing the radar's components.  As smaller radar equipment became available, the design trend became placing cockpits farther forward.  There's also talk about how the position of the cockpit itself affects the aircraft's center of gravity and, as a result, the layout of things like the onboard computers, landing gear, etc.  Alpha team's prototype placed the cockpit as far forward as possible, while Bravo's design kept it farther towards the rear.  Alpha team opted to include canards in their design as a way to tune the aerodynamic center of their prototype, while Bravo team opted to change the orientation of the main wings.  Another key difference in the Bravo design was placing the laser turret on the underside of the fighter like a VF-1 rather than covering the rear as on the final VF-11.  XYF-11-1 is shown to be the Bravo team's plan, which looks like a cross between the VF-1 and VF-11, but without canards.

Bravo team, it seems, had a tendency to favor a "back to basics" philosophy and followed it even when there was not a particularly positive reaction to it.  The prevailing philosophy was that the gunpod was more than sufficient for forward attacks, and that it would be better to have rear-facing anti-aircraft firepower for defensive purposes.  Alpha team, on the other hand, were a team of incorrigible tinkerers who were keen to try any and every improvement they could and chose to work closely with former pilots in order to solicit candid feedback on what pilots actually needed even if it was things difficult for pilots to admit professionally.  (No pilot's pride wants to admit that it's easy for enemies to get behind them, it seems.)  Because the recruitment pool for pilots was broadening, the NADV board felt it was advisable to err on the side of caution and incorporate the rear-facing laser cannon, which first found its way into production on the VF-5000 series.  Design work on the Alpha and Bravo prototypes began in October 2025.  

There's a bit of cultural posturing about drawing plans by hand as opposed to using CAD and a director named Yuki Nakahira whose sketches based on pterosaurs apparently played a very large role in the work of both Alpha and Bravo team and inspired the general shape of the aircraft.

XYF-11-0 and XYF-11-1 were completed in early 2026, though there's a note that both team's design documents say "XYF-11-1", with the book speculating that they were determined not to be outdone by each other.  This pissing match was settled by redesignated Alpha team's unit -0 and all subsequent designs were numbered based upon the order in which they were approved.

Unit 1 was first flown on 5 February 2026 by Spacy Force reservist Lt. Col. Shinji Ihata, a First Space War veteran with over 5,000 flight hours.  The test flight lasted only about ten minutes, with Ihata noting the prototype was "easy to handle".  According to the policy set by Director Nakahira, all test pilots were assigned to fly the Alpha and Bravo team units equally.  Test pilots being brought in from the military were first made to pilot various Shinsei-made VFs to familiarize them with other Shinsei designs to ensure pilots had some consistent experience as a common framework for reporting.  

 

The next section pivots to talking about development of the engine.

[Seto Kaiba]

The engine section's sparse as expected, but it does directly confirm one theory I've held for a while.

Namely, that the physical size of a thermonuclear reaction engine affects both the amount of thrust it can produce AND the amount of electrical power it can produce.  Master File quite bluntly indicates that it's a matter of a physically-bigger engine having more room for thermoelectric converters.  😁

[pengbuzz]

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The engine section's sparse as expected, but it does directly confirm one theory I've held for a while.

Namely, that the physical size of a thermonuclear reaction engine affects both the amount of thrust it can produce AND the amount of electrical power it can produce.  Master File quite bluntly indicates that it's a matter of a physically-bigger engine having more room for thermoelectric converters.  😁

And that by necessity would also have to include more room for fuel storage, correct?

[Seto Kaiba]

On 3/22/2025 at 11:11 PM, pengbuzz said:

And that by necessity would also have to include more room for fuel storage, correct?

Probably.  It's not guaranteed, but designing a larger engine naturally means having to design a larger engine nacelle to house it and potentially that larger engine nacelle will have more space to house things like reactant slush, propellant tanks for verniers, weapons and ammunition, etc.

The VF-11 Master File suggests the VF-11 inherited the VF-1's habit of inserting supplemental propellant tanks into intakes and bypass airflow spaces when operating exclusively in space, so there's that too.

[pengbuzz]

46 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Probably.  It's not guaranteed, but designing a larger engine naturally means having to design a larger engine nacelle to house it and potentially that larger engine nacelle will have more space to house things like reactant slush, propellant tanks for verniers, weapons and ammunition, etc.

The VF-11 Master File suggests the VF-11 inherited the VF-1's habit of inserting supplemental propellant tanks into intakes and bypass airflow spaces when operating exclusively in space, so there's that too.

*Imagines VF-11 with HUGE keg of fuel strapped to its' back*

[camk4evr]

29 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

*Imagines VF-11 with HUGE keg of fuel strapped to its' back*

That is part of the point of FAST packs

[Graham]

I'm presuming that like the VF-25 series, the VF-31 series also uses linear actuators for faster transformation time, less wear and tear and reduced maintenance.

Just asking as none of the usual English  spec sights (Macross Compendium, MAHQ, Macross2.net etc.) mention linear actuators for the VF-31.

Just wondering if it is mentioned in any of the Japanese spec sites or in Master Files (not that I consider Master Files generally anymore than bad fanfic....LOL.....even if it is semi official).

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Graham said:

I'm presuming that like the VF-25 series, the VF-31 series also uses linear actuators for faster transformation time, less wear and tear and reduced maintenance.

It's one of the standard/defining features of 5th Generation Variable Fighters alongside the Inertia Store Converter and Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engine.

So yeah, very safe bet the VF-31 uses linear actuators in its transformation system.

 

4 hours ago, Graham said:

Just wondering if it is mentioned in any of the Japanese spec sites or in Master Files (not that I consider Master Files generally anymore than bad fanfic....LOL.....even if it is semi official).

Have not done a complete crawl through the VF-31 Master File books yet.

I tend to consider their lore sections to be non-canonical stories, while the technical material reads as "stuff they'll probably poach from for the next edition of Macross Chronicle" like they did with Sky Angels.

Edited yesterday at 02:35 PM by Seto Kaiba

[rematron]

Random question.  Sorry if it's been discussed/explained before.  How does the designation 'VF-5000' fit in with the 2 digit VF designations?  Why does it go from VF-1 and VF-4 and then VF-5000 and then back down to VF-11?  Is it because the VF-5000 wasn't an officially requested and designed fighter for the government?

[sketchley]

29 minutes ago, rematron said:

Random question.  Sorry if it's been discussed/explained before.  How does the designation 'VF-5000' fit in with the 2 digit VF designations?  Why does it go from VF-1 and VF-4 and then VF-5000 and then back down to VF-11?  Is it because the VF-5000 wasn't an officially requested and designed fighter for the government?

The numbering in the VF series is a bit more complex than you've indicated: VF-1, VF-3000, VF-4, VF-5*, VF-5000, VF-6*, VF-7*, VF-9, and then VF-11.

So, as the VF-5000 is both emulating the VF-3000's numbering and a descendant of the VF-3000, it might be better to ask why the VF-3000 was numbered the way it was.

 

 

* only appear in text.

Edited yesterday at 04:16 PM by sketchley

[rematron]

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

The numbering in the VF series is a bit more complex than you've indicated: VF-1, VF-3000, VF-4, VF-5*, VF-5000, VF-6*, VF-7*, VF-9, and then VF-11.

So, as the VF-5000 is both emulating the VF-3000's numbering and a descendant of the VF-3000, it might be better to ask why the VF-3000 was numbered the way it was.

 

 

* only appear in text.

This^^^ 🙂

Edited yesterday at 05:55 PM by rematron

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, rematron said:

Random question.  Sorry if it's been discussed/explained before.  How does the designation 'VF-5000' fit in with the 2 digit VF designations?  Why does it go from VF-1 and VF-4 and then VF-5000 and then back down to VF-11?  Is it because the VF-5000 wasn't an officially requested and designed fighter for the government?

As @sketchley noted, the VF-5000 is designated the way it is because it was the newly formed-by-merger Shinsei Industry's continuation of/successor to Stonewell Bellcom's VF-3000's development program.

Why the VF-3000 was designated the way it was... well... that's harder to say.

The VF-3000 was named "VF-3000" before it was a Macross design.  Kawamori originally designed it for a non-Macross project called Advanced Valkyrie after Macross: Do You Remember Love? was completed, though the project's sponsor backed out and the designs and story were eventually adapted into Macross.  Most of the designs adopted didn't change names or designations, so the VF-3000 remained "VF-3000" even as a Macross design and I don't think I've ever seen a strictly official attempt to explain it away.  I don't believe there's an explanation for the VF-3000 designation in what little print media covers Advanced Valkyrie either.

My personal hypothesis on the numbering is that it may have been inspired by the Dassault Mirage 4000 program that was in active development when Kawamori was working on the Advanced Valkyrie line.  The Mirage 4000 was a larger, twin-engine version of the Mirage 2000 built to be an interceptor and fighter-bomber.  The Mirage 4000 prototype was in active testing from 1979 to 1988, putting it in the right time period to be the inspiration, unlike the EF2000 Eurofighter Typhoon.  The Macross version of the VF-3000 is explained similarly, as a larger VF-1 built to improve its interceptor and fighter-bomber capabilities that had previously been constrained by the original design's small size.  Like the Mirage 4000, it was ultimately cancelled and led to the development of a more advanced fighter based loosely on it (the Dassault Rafale and VF-5000 respectively).  I suspect the +2000 designation used for the VF-5000 is also a nod to the relationship between the Mirage 2000 and Mirage 4000.  

 

Variable Fighter Master File takes a whack at a non-strictly-official explanation for the designation.  Its explanation, which can be found on page 109 of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2, is essentially a case of the military using the manufacturer's internal designation for a prototype aircraft during testing.

To explain in more detail, Master File's short account of the VF-3000 explains that the project started as a "continuing development" program that Stonewell Bellcom was carrying out based on their completed VF-1 design before the First Space War.  The program's internal designation was YVF-1000.  After the war, Stonewell Bellcom attempted to revive its YVF-1000 program despite the loss of some development data under the new internal designation YVF-3000 as a potential internal rival to the VF-X-4.  It was quickly apparent the YVF-3000 would not reach adequate levels of completion before the launch of Megaroad-01, and the difficulties Stonewell Bellcom and Shinnakasu encountered in development drove them to separate and consolidate their aircraft design divisions in a merger that formed Shinsei Industry in 2012 in order to focus specifically on VF development.  To help solidify this merger and ensure the stability of Shinsei Industry in the short term, the New UN Government arranged to purchase nine YVF-3000 prototypes for evaluation in 2013.  Those nine test aircraft were given the out-of-sequence designation VF-3000A, presumably because the military had no actual intention of adopting the VF-3000 on a large scale.

The VF-5000 is subsequently explained as a symbolic gesture to indicate it was a continuation and completion of the same program seeking to perfect the VF-1 concept.  It was, according to Master File, developed under the program codename VF-X EVO.  

[rematron]

22 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As @sketchley noted, the VF-5000 is designated the way it is because it was the newly formed-by-merger Shinsei Industry's continuation of/successor to Stonewell Bellcom's VF-3000's development program.

Why the VF-3000 was designated the way it was... well... that's harder to say.

The VF-3000 was named "VF-3000" before it was a Macross design.  Kawamori originally designed it for a non-Macross project called Advanced Valkyrie after Macross: Do You Remember Love? was completed, though the project's sponsor backed out and the designs and story were eventually adapted into Macross.  Most of the designs adopted didn't change names or designations, so the VF-3000 remained "VF-3000" even as a Macross design and I don't think I've ever seen a strictly official attempt to explain it away.  I don't believe there's an explanation for the VF-3000 designation in what little print media covers Advanced Valkyrie either.

My personal hypothesis on the numbering is that it may have been inspired by the Dassault Mirage 4000 program that was in active development when Kawamori was working on the Advanced Valkyrie line.  The Mirage 4000 was a larger, twin-engine version of the Mirage 2000 built to be an interceptor and fighter-bomber.  The Mirage 4000 prototype was in active testing from 1979 to 1988, putting it in the right time period to be the inspiration, unlike the EF2000 Eurofighter Typhoon.  The Macross version of the VF-3000 is explained similarly, as a larger VF-1 built to improve its interceptor and fighter-bomber capabilities that had previously been constrained by the original design's small size.  Like the Mirage 4000, it was ultimately cancelled and led to the development of a more advanced fighter based loosely on it (the Dassault Rafale and VF-5000 respectively).  I suspect the +2000 designation used for the VF-5000 is also a nod to the relationship between the Mirage 2000 and Mirage 4000.  

 

Variable Fighter Master File takes a whack at a non-strictly-official explanation for the designation.  Its explanation, which can be found on page 109 of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2, is essentially a case of the military using the manufacturer's internal designation for a prototype aircraft during testing.

To explain in more detail, Master File's short account of the VF-3000 explains that the project started as a "continuing development" program that Stonewell Bellcom was carrying out based on their completed VF-1 design before the First Space War.  The program's internal designation was YVF-1000.  After the war, Stonewell Bellcom attempted to revive its YVF-1000 program despite the loss of some development data under the new internal designation YVF-3000 as a potential internal rival to the VF-X-4.  It was quickly apparent the YVF-3000 would not reach adequate levels of completion before the launch of Megaroad-01, and the difficulties Stonewell Bellcom and Shinnakasu encountered in development drove them to separate and consolidate their aircraft design divisions in a merger that formed Shinsei Industry in 2012 in order to focus specifically on VF development.  To help solidify this merger and ensure the stability of Shinsei Industry in the short term, the New UN Government arranged to purchase nine YVF-3000 prototypes for evaluation in 2013.  Those nine test aircraft were given the out-of-sequence designation VF-3000A, presumably because the military had no actual intention of adopting the VF-3000 on a large scale.

The VF-5000 is subsequently explained as a symbolic gesture to indicate it was a continuation and completion of the same program seeking to perfect the VF-1 concept.  It was, according to Master File, developed under the program codename VF-X EVO.  

Thanks for the explanation, Seto!  A little part of me has been wondering this for quite a while. 🙂

[pengbuzz]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As @sketchley noted, the VF-5000 is designated the way it is because it was the newly formed-by-merger Shinsei Industry's continuation of/successor to Stonewell Bellcom's VF-3000's development program.

Why the VF-3000 was designated the way it was... well... that's harder to say.

The VF-3000 was named "VF-3000" before it was a Macross design.  Kawamori originally designed it for a non-Macross project called Advanced Valkyrie after Macross: Do You Remember Love? was completed, though the project's sponsor backed out and the designs and story were eventually adapted into Macross.  Most of the designs adopted didn't change names or designations, so the VF-3000 remained "VF-3000" even as a Macross design and I don't think I've ever seen a strictly official attempt to explain it away.  I don't believe there's an explanation for the VF-3000 designation in what little print media covers Advanced Valkyrie either.

My personal hypothesis on the numbering is that it may have been inspired by the Dassault Mirage 4000 program that was in active development when Kawamori was working on the Advanced Valkyrie line.  The Mirage 4000 was a larger, twin-engine version of the Mirage 2000 built to be an interceptor and fighter-bomber.  The Mirage 4000 prototype was in active testing from 1979 to 1988, putting it in the right time period to be the inspiration, unlike the EF2000 Eurofighter Typhoon.  The Macross version of the VF-3000 is explained similarly, as a larger VF-1 built to improve its interceptor and fighter-bomber capabilities that had previously been constrained by the original design's small size.  Like the Mirage 4000, it was ultimately cancelled and led to the development of a more advanced fighter based loosely on it (the Dassault Rafale and VF-5000 respectively).  I suspect the +2000 designation used for the VF-5000 is also a nod to the relationship between the Mirage 2000 and Mirage 4000.  

 

Variable Fighter Master File takes a whack at a non-strictly-official explanation for the designation.  Its explanation, which can be found on page 109 of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2, is essentially a case of the military using the manufacturer's internal designation for a prototype aircraft during testing.

To explain in more detail, Master File's short account of the VF-3000 explains that the project started as a "continuing development" program that Stonewell Bellcom was carrying out based on their completed VF-1 design before the First Space War.  The program's internal designation was YVF-1000.  After the war, Stonewell Bellcom attempted to revive its YVF-1000 program despite the loss of some development data under the new internal designation YVF-3000 as a potential internal rival to the VF-X-4.  It was quickly apparent the YVF-3000 would not reach adequate levels of completion before the launch of Megaroad-01, and the difficulties Stonewell Bellcom and Shinnakasu encountered in development drove them to separate and consolidate their aircraft design divisions in a merger that formed Shinsei Industry in 2012 in order to focus specifically on VF development.  To help solidify this merger and ensure the stability of Shinsei Industry in the short term, the New UN Government arranged to purchase nine YVF-3000 prototypes for evaluation in 2013.  Those nine test aircraft were given the out-of-sequence designation VF-3000A, presumably because the military had no actual intention of adopting the VF-3000 on a large scale.

The VF-5000 is subsequently explained as a symbolic gesture to indicate it was a continuation and completion of the same program seeking to perfect the VF-1 concept.  It was, according to Master File, developed under the program codename VF-X EVO.  

Yeah, we were just discussing model number naming recently.

[aurance]

The VF-11 rear-facing cannon is at such specific fixed angle, that the coverage for this thing seems dubious.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, aurance said:

The VF-11 rear-facing cannon is at such specific fixed angle, that the coverage for this thing seems dubious.

So, as we see in Macross Plus, the rear-facing laser cannon can actually move a bit. 

We're not told exactly how much in official sources, but Master File suggests it's got about 55 degrees of adjustable elevation and around 10 of horizontal traverse.

[Graham]

Just wondering if anybody has any information or a model designation regarding the MRV missiles used by Delta Squadron at the beginning of the Zettai Live!!!!! movie?

From what I can find online, in the real world MRV seems to be a bit different to MIRV, with the primary difference being that the individual warheads are not targetable.

From Wikipedia: "MRV: A multiple re-entry vehicle (MRV) system for a ballistic missile deploys multiple warheads above a single aimpoint which then drift apart, producing a cluster bomb-like effect. These warheads are not individually targetable".

So far, I can't find these MRVs mentioned in either the VF-31 or VF-31AX Master Files or any other source.

The animators appear to be re-using the render for the standard VF-31 reaction missile, just with the colors changed from white to grey and a Chaos logo on the side.

If you look at the last 2 screenshots below, there definitely looks like a burst effect, with what could possible be the multiple warheads shooting out of the main body of the missile.

[Graham]

Just curious, as I haven't seen anybody mention these MRVs in any online discussion about weapons in Macross before.

I guess re-color of the reaction missile render saves animation budget.

And from an in-universe standpoint, Delta Squadron couldn't use reaction missiles inside Windermere's atmosphere, so if the movie script called for a larger wing-mounted missile to be fired rather than the internal micro-missiles, then Kawamori had to come up with a different type of missile to use.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, Graham said:

Just wondering if anybody has any information about the MRV missiles used by Delta Squadron at the beginning of the Zettai Live!!!!! movie?

Unfortunately, Master File is practically the only source of tech specs for the second Macross Delta movie.

I don't believe these "MRV" missiles are mentioned in there.

 

7 minutes ago, Graham said:

The animators appear to be re-using the artwork for the standard VF-31 reaction missile body, just with the colors changed from white to grey and a Chaos logo on the side.

If you look at the last 2 screenshots below, there definitely looks like a burst effect, with what could possible be the multiple warheads shooting out of the main body of the missile.

Yup.  Looking at it, that's definitely a reskin of the 3D model made for the RMS-7 thermonuclear reaction missile from Macross Frontier and Macross Delta.

They're definitely not reaction weapons in this scene, though. 

 

The only "MRV" I can think of that's specifically for non-nuclear missiles is a type of rocket fuze used by the Soviets called the MRV-U that was used for blast fragmentation rocket wahreads.  I'm guessing this is probably not that.

 

Looking at the footage in slow motion, the "MRV" missiles don't explode at all.  It's not actually clear what's exploding in that scene.  The missiles reach the target, spray a ring of what I guess are submunitions that also don't seem to explode, and then start to fall before the camera cuts away.

If I had to guess, I'd assume they're something akin to the SPP-8 mass driver pod from Master File.  Essentially, a missile that has a volleygun-like multi-barrel railgun in place of an explosive warhead.  It gets close to the enemy, and then it lets rip at short range with a huge spray of high-velocity projectiles like the mother of all shotguns.  This "MRV missile" seems to be made to hit evasive targets, saturating a wide area with missile-launched projectiles instead of a narrow cone ahead of the missile.

[Graham]

2 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

If I had to guess, I'd assume they're something akin to the SPP-8 mass driver pod from Master File.  Essentially, a missile that has a volleygun-like multi-barrel railgun in place of an explosive warhead.  It gets close to the enemy, and then it lets rip at short range with a huge spray of high-velocity projectiles like the mother of all shotguns.  This "MRV missile" seems to be made to hit evasive targets, saturating a wide area with missile-launched projectiles instead of a narrow cone ahead of the missile.

That makes the most sense.