Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Graham]

In the recent Scorched Earth YouTube video comparing the Yamato and Bandai toy's YF-21 FAST Packs, he mentions that the tail fin packs are micro missile launchers.

But I'd always assumed and also thought I'd read somewhere that the YF-21's tail fin packs were propellant tanks.

Thoughts on what the tail fin packs actually are?

We know there are micro missile launchers built into the belly plate packs.

[Seto Kaiba]

25 minutes ago, Graham said:

In the recent Scorched Earth YouTube video comparing the Yamato and Bandai toy's YF-21 FAST Packs, he mentions that the tail fin packs are micro missile launchers.

But I'd always assumed and also thought I'd read somewhere that the YF-21's tail fin packs were propellant tanks.

Thoughts on what the tail fin packs actually are?

We know there are micro missile launchers built into the belly plate packs.

Well, I have good news on that score... your recollection/assumption is indeed correct.  That's a propellant tank, not a micro-missile launcher.  I think the propellant tanks are first mentioned in This is Animation THE SELECT: Macross Plus Movie Edition's writeup of the YF-21, but they're also described in a few other places including Variable Fighter Master File: VF-22 Sturmvogel II.

There are additional micro-missile launchers in the YF-21's FAST Pack, but they're on the other pair of packs that are often referred to just as "additional weapons container".  The diamond-shaped ports matching the type seen on the YF-21's dorsal surface are the business end of the launchers.

[aurance]

So, in VF-X2 we have the VF-11's doing missile spam without missile packs. I know some liberties are taken with game graphics as far as technical details go. In a perfect world would these VF-11's have been animated with super packs? Or do they have some sort of internal missile pallet that the stock -11's don't?

[Seto Kaiba]

39 minutes ago, aurance said:

So, in VF-X2 we have the VF-11's doing missile spam without missile packs. I know some liberties are taken with game graphics as far as technical details go. In a perfect world would these VF-11's have been animated with super packs? Or do they have some sort of internal missile pallet that the stock -11's don't?

As far as we know, all of the Valkyries used by the 727th Independent Squadron are stock.  No unusual variants, ace customs, non-standard equipment etc.

Macross VF-X2 also has the VF-1 Valkyrie as a selectable aircraft, and it is also able to spam missiles without a Super Pack equipped.  What that says to me is that the Valkyries in-game are meant to have missiles hung on their underwing pylons which were not modeled for some reason (likely game engine or system limitations).

[sketchley]

7 hours ago, aurance said:

So, in VF-X2 we have the VF-11's doing missile spam without missile packs. I know some liberties are taken with game graphics as far as technical details go. In a perfect world would these VF-11's have been animated with super packs? Or do they have some sort of internal missile pallet that the stock -11's don't?

The VF-11 is a bit "fuzzy" when it comes to internal armaments.  The VF-11C purportedly has them (à la Macross 7).  However, the VF-11B (which ostensibly doesn't have them) is the Thunderbolt that appears in VF-X2.

Seto's answer sounds like it is on the money, as the play-through guide books for VF-X2 state that the game's VF-11B are loaded with "micro-missiles" and "high-manoeuvre" missiles—the latter of which are only ever depicted mounted on the wings.

... and even though the number of missiles in VF-X2 are finite, the game developers opted for fun and gave us unrealistic, massively large quantities.  I hardly ever recall running out of missiles in VF-X2.  However, in the PS2's The Super Dimension Fortress Macross (2003), as I recall often frustratingly running out of certain missiles, the strategic use of them seems to be something that the developers built into game play.

 

TL,DR: they have externally mounted wing missiles that were beyond the rendering capabilities of the time, and have unrealistically large payloads to make the game more fun.

[Seto Kaiba]

22 hours ago, sketchley said:

The VF-11 is a bit "fuzzy" when it comes to internal armaments.  The VF-11C purportedly has them (à la Macross 7).  However, the VF-11B (which ostensibly doesn't have them) is the Thunderbolt that appears in VF-X2.

Yeah, and the internal bay in the lower leg is not actually in the official spec in most publications either... which makes one question whether it's standard gear on the C-type or some kind of improvised equipment.

 

22 hours ago, sketchley said:

TL,DR: they have externally mounted wing missiles that were beyond the rendering capabilities of the time, and have unrealistically large payloads to make the game more fun.

Yeah.  Later titles like Macross 30 did the same despite having ample power to render underwing missiles.  I suspect by that point the motive changed from saving on processor resources to just not knowing what to draw.

[TG Remix]

Going through the on going translation videos of Macross VF-X2, there's a good amount of interesting things that are somewhat revealed for us English audiences.

Firstly, the briefing from Mission 2 gives us some distinct units and their designations; The Hyde City blockade force had the VC806 Laramith Air Force, FG651 Mobile Space Force, and the WE-9 Land Force. It's a nice look to see what a planetary military would have instead of what usually makes up a emigrant fleet, especially when the Air Force is named after the star system as opposed to the planet it's based on. Though I do wonder what would a "Land Force" entail in the Macross universe; almost sounds like a niche the New UN Army would have, if not a sect that has more emphasis on Battroids or even something like the Patroids the City 7 Police used.

 

On a side note, almost forgot that Hyde City is the capital of planet Sephira, which is where Leon Sakaki from Macross 30 comes from. Considering the game and novelization of which was written by Ukyo Kodachi, I like the sense of continuity he builds between side material as opposed to how loose Kawamori plays it; not that it's a bad thing, both have their merits after all. Although for a planet that was colonized and terraformed by the Macross 4, it seems like a awfully quick time for a long distance emigrant fleet to discover, as the terraformation process was completed in 2033, which judging from the launch dates of the others (the Macross 1 fleet in September 2030, and Macross 7 in 2038), seems like at most a couple of years to discover the Laramith system the planet belongs to.

 

The one that caught my attention the most when talking to the gameplay recorder was in Mission 3, where the VF-X Ravens are tasked to protect the UN transport ship "Embatelion" (a repurposed Meltran Assault Landing Ship), and their cargo seems to be something that more or less shapes the franchise after it; the Die Zauberflöte, which Wilbur describes as the UN's new communication device that uses "Hyperspatial Resonance Crystals" (which were discovered in 2043) to make fold transceivers. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? It seems like at least the concept of Fold Quartz from Frontier had it's footing from this game, albeit in another, more colloquial term.

Edited February 5 by TG Remix

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Firstly, the briefing from Mission 2 gives us some distinct units and their designations; The Hyde City blockade force had the VC806 Laramith Air Force, FG651 Mobile Space Force, and the WE-9 Land Force. It's a nice look to see what a planetary military would have instead of what usually makes up a emigrant fleet, especially when the Air Force is named after the star system as opposed to the planet it's based on.

There's not really a difference, TBH.

Emigrant fleet defense forces become the emigrant planet defense force when the fleet finds a suitable planet to colonize.  Whether those designations are actual ones or just the ones used internally by the Special Forces for that specific operation are anyone's guess, but the unit names and designations we see in other works are more in line with modern ones.

 

6 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Though I do wonder what would a "Land Force" entail in the Macross universe; almost sounds like a niche the New UN Army would have, if not a sect that has more emphasis on Battroids or even something like the Patroids the City 7 Police used.

Given what we see in the game, likely just infantry and light armored vehicles like self-propelled AA guns and tanks.  Maybe some leftover First Space War-era destroids or Regults.

 

6 hours ago, TG Remix said:

The one that caught my attention the most when talking to the gameplay recorder was in Mission 3, where the VF-X Ravens are tasked to protect the UN transport ship "Embatelion" (a repurposed Meltran Assault Landing Ship), and their cargo seems to be something that more or less shapes the franchise after it; the Die Zauberflöte, which Wilbur describes as the UN's new communication device that uses "Hyperspatial Resonance Crystals" (which were discovered in 2043) to make fold transceivers. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? It seems like at least the concept of Fold Quartz from Frontier had it's footing from this game, albeit in another, more colloquial term.

Yeah, the Macross Frontier novelizations (TV and Movie) make this connection quite explicit.

Spoiler

First contact with the Vajra occurred in 2040 even in the animation's backstory materials, but the novels reveal that the Critical Path Corporation and its CEO Manfred Brando (who serves as a level boss later in VF-X2) were instrumental in researching fold quartz and experimenting with possible applications of it.  Critical Path sponsored Dr. Mao Nome's expedition into Vajra space with the 117th research fleet, and Manfred himself was a part of the military's board of inquiry that was convened to investigate the loss of the 117th research fleet in 2048.  

In the TV novelization, Ozma got kicked out of the New UN Forces for losing his cool and punching Manfred during the investigation because of how he was treating Ranka. 

The seminal research paper on fold quartz is called the "Manfred Thesis", and an uploaded copy of Manfred's consciousness is one of the Galaxy Fleet executives who is either a minion of Grace's or one of the ones pulling Grace's strings depending on whether it's the TV or Movie version.  

Aegis Focker also puts in a small appearance, noted to be one of Col. Wilder's proteges and at one point one of Ozma's seniors in the NUNS who assists SMS with their investigation into Leon Mishima.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Firstly, the briefing from Mission 2 gives us some distinct units and their designations; The Hyde City blockade force had the VC806 Laramith Air Force, FG651 Mobile Space Force, and the WE-9 Land Force.

It occurred to me while I was eating dinner, there is one case I can think of of non-standard markings indicative of affiliation with a specfic planet/system rather than just New UN Forces.  Variable Fighter Episode Archive, which I have yet to work on, has some pictures of VFs badged as affiliated with the Sewell Independent Space Force.

[JB0]

20 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Although for a planet that was colonized and terraformed by the Macross 4, it seems like a awfully quick time for a long distance emigrant fleet to discover, as the terraformation process was completed in 2033, which judging from the launch dates of the others (the Macross 1 fleet in September 2030, and Macross 7 in 2038), seems like at most a couple of years to discover the Laramith system the planet belongs to.

Sometimes people just get really lucky. When they found a usable world like right at the very start of their mission, someone was celebrating a speedrunning victory.

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, JB0 said:

Sometimes people just get really lucky. When they found a usable world like right at the very start of their mission, someone was celebrating a speedrunning victory.

Like that short distance emmigrant fleet that found Eden. Imagine setting out on a multi-year mission to explore the area within a hundred light years of Earth and finding a Class A habitable planet practically on Earth's doorstep almost immediately. One has to wonder if the crew even had a chance to properly unpack their suitcases before the mission was over.

[Graham]

On 1/30/2025 at 9:47 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, and the internal bay in the lower leg is not actually in the official spec in most publications either... which makes one question whether it's standard gear on the C-type or some kind of improvised equipment.

 

Yeah.  Later titles like Macross 30 did the same despite having ample power to render underwing missiles.  I suspect by that point the motive changed from saving on processor resources to just not knowing what to draw.

It's strange no underwing missiles were modeled for the VF-11 in the PS3 Macross 30 game.

As Macross 30, the PS3 Hybrid game Macross Last Frontier and the PS Vita game Macross Delta Scramble all have underwing missiles for other VFs, such as VF-1, VF-0, VF-25 etc, so as you said, it's not a matter of processing power for rendering.

I'm also going with the theory that Artdink just didn't know what to do about the VF-11 and maybe never asked.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Graham said:

I'm also going with the theory that Artdink just didn't know what to do about the VF-11 and maybe never asked.

That's probably the case, given that there are only really two story sources that depict the VF-11 using its underwing pylons: Macross the Ride and Variable Fighter Master File.

Macross the Ride's depiction of the VF-11 using its underwing pylons - Anthony Clemens's VF-11C Thunderbolt Interceptor - didn't have any visuals until Chapter 10.  That came out in October 2011, about four months before Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy was released.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-11 Thunderbolt didn't come out until March 2019, around seven years after the game's release.

 

On an unrelated note, an interesting detail I found while working on Master File in a quiet moment offers an interesting explanation for the sudden (in-universe) renewal of interest in railgun and coilgun technology around the time of Macross Frontier.  A point that Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah keeps coming back to in several sections is how a closed-system environment ship like the Macross Frontier has to very carefully manage its usage of organic compounds in various non-recyclable contexts (such as explosives or combustible rocket fuels) because those resources are precious and necessary to the maintenance of the ship's artificial environment.  As a result, these compounds are a good deal more costly for emigrant ships than planetary governments and thus create a cost incentive to explore alternatives like substituting railguns and coilguns for cannons using chemical propellants and swapping rocket motors for plasma arcjets on some missiles.  

[TG Remix]

On 2/5/2025 at 4:31 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Emigrant fleet defense forces become the emigrant planet defense force when the fleet finds a suitable planet to colonize.  Whether those designations are actual ones or just the ones used internally by the Special Forces for that specific operation are anyone's guess, but the unit names and designations we see in other works are more in line with modern ones.

That makes sense, and I was wondering why those designations were different from the norm. Would make sense if they catalogued them through codenames/IDs since there's probably a lot more overlap with squadron/fleet/battalion/etc. names all across the galaxy than we realize.

 

On 2/5/2025 at 4:31 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Given what we see in the game, likely just infantry and light armored vehicles like self-propelled AA guns and tanks.  Maybe some leftover First Space War-era destroids or Regults.

We did see some armored vehicles in the Frontier fleet and some modern renovations of Destroids in the Frontier and Delta era, so that tracks. Though considering variable attacker's Battroid form are said to be more analogous to Destroids in function (or at least the VA-3, Macross Chronicle seems to suggest it for all VAs in a general sense,) I'm wondering if their more ground based orientated designs would help in that regard too.

 

On 2/5/2025 at 7:57 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

It occurred to me while I was eating dinner, there is one case I can think of of non-standard markings indicative of affiliation with a specfic planet/system rather than just New UN Forces.  Variable Fighter Episode Archive, which I have yet to work on, has some pictures of VFs badged as affiliated with the Sewell Independent Space Force.

First time I've heard of that, would that be related to the Master File books at all? The 3d models and similar drawn art style seems to suggest that.

 

On 2/6/2025 at 6:07 AM, JB0 said:

Sometimes people just get really lucky. When they found a usable world like right at the very start of their mission, someone was celebrating a speedrunning victory.

On 2/6/2025 at 7:11 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Like that short distance emmigrant fleet that found Eden. Imagine setting out on a multi-year mission to explore the area within a hundred light years of Earth and finding a Class A habitable planet practically on Earth's doorstep almost immediately. One has to wonder if the crew even had a chance to properly unpack their suitcases before the mission was over.

I'm just imagining the exact opposite reaction to the poor emigrant fleet that discovered the planet that they mine Barunasium from, or the people that were forced to abandoned Elysium. Spending who knows how long cruising through only to deal with the bare minimum at best lol.

 

Though the conditions of habitable planets got me curious. There's some pre-established places that aren't suited to be colonized like Gaul IV, and some planets had to be terraformed to live in like established with Sephira, but at least in the solar system we know there's people who live in the Apollo Base colony on the moon (which is how some of Shammy's family survived SWI), the H.G Wells colony in Mars where Gamlin comes from, and unless I'm mistaken, some colonies were established across other planets like Jupiter around the SDF era. So I'm wondering in the case of the moon or other similar uninhabitable places you make due with what you have and make underground cities a la Gundam's Granada and Von Braun.

 

On 2/7/2025 at 2:30 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

On an unrelated note, an interesting detail I found while working on Master File in a quiet moment offers an interesting explanation for the sudden (in-universe) renewal of interest in railgun and coilgun technology around the time of Macross Frontier.  A point that Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah keeps coming back to in several sections is how a closed-system environment ship like the Macross Frontier has to very carefully manage its usage of organic compounds in various non-recyclable contexts (such as explosives or combustible rocket fuels) because those resources are precious and necessary to the maintenance of the ship's artificial environment.  As a result, these compounds are a good deal more costly for emigrant ships than planetary governments and thus create a cost incentive to explore alternatives like substituting railguns and coilguns for cannons using chemical propellants and swapping rocket motors for plasma arcjets on some missiles.  

Makes a lot of sense that you'd have to prioritize what resources you need in a environment like that, in a way why by Delta the VF-31's regular gunpod is a railgun, since at a point physical ammunition would be a lot more tedious to handle economically.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

That makes sense, and I was wondering why those designations were different from the norm. Would make sense if they catalogued them through codenames/IDs since there's probably a lot more overlap with squadron/fleet/battalion/etc. names all across the galaxy than we realize.

Thus far, we haven't seen much in the way of official overlap in naming conventions.

The few cases we have seen are mainly different organizations using the same nickname for a unit ("Skull Platoon") or two different ships being named after the same person (SDFN-04 General Bruno J. Global and CV-339 Bruno J. Global).  

Spoiler

The latter case appears to be a collision of two different (primarily western) naval traditions:

• Naming escort warships (like destroyers) after admirals and naval officers famed for their heroism.
• Naming aircraft carriers after heads of state.

Bruno J. Global just happened to fit both of those categories thanks to having gone into politics after retiring from the New UN Forces.  So the Spacy named a Macross-class ship after him the same way they did for his friend and mentor General Takashi Hayase and for his onetime rival General Vrlitwhai Kridanik and the New UN Government later named a Uraga-class carrier after him in honor of his government service like they did for prime ministers Harlan J. Niven and Robert A. Rhysling before the war.  (Presumably after he passed away, as was the case for the other two, accounting for why it's a 2030s-era ship and not an ARMD-class.)

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

We did see some armored vehicles in the Frontier fleet and some modern renovations of Destroids in the Frontier and Delta era, so that tracks. Though considering variable attacker's Battroid form are said to be more analogous to Destroids in function (or at least the VA-3, Macross Chronicle seems to suggest it for all VAs in a general sense,) I'm wondering if their more ground based orientated designs would help in that regard too.

We also see some in the opening animation of Macross VF-X2 (Aegis's Konig Monster steps on one) and some anti-aircraft batteries of various types in the gam'es fourth mission, though they are not named and called simply "Battery A" and "Battery B".

Macross Chronicle only really describes the VA-3 as "having the special characteristics of both a VF and a Destroid".  It never explains what that means, and the remark isn't found in the Technology Sheet that discusses Variable Attackers.  It's possible that all they really mean by that is "it has heavier armor", since that's one of the few traits that's mentioned in the Technology Sheet and Mechanic Sheet as setting it apart from Variable Fighters.  

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

First time I've heard of that, would that be related to the Master File books at all? The 3d models and similar drawn art style seems to suggest that.

It's basically a side book to Master File.  The only volume produced thus far is essentially an extended account of the VF-19's ARIEL integrated control AI system.

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

So I'm wondering in the case of the moon or other similar uninhabitable places you make due with what you have and make underground cities a la Gundam's Granada and Von Braun.

Von Braun, Granada, and the other Lunar cities in Mobile Suit Gundam are built the way they are because of the limitations of the technology available to their builders and what they were built for.  They're not really underground per se.  They were built into existing lunar craters because it was convenient both structurally and for their intended purpose.  They were established as space-based mining and refinery complexes producing construction materials for building space colonies.  Building inside lunar craters provided the stable foundation for the mass drivers needed to launch materials to the construction sites and easy access to lower geological strata.

Salla Base on Mars in Macross was set up as a research facility, so what we see of it is almost entirely surface-based with the only noted underground part being its power plant's thermonuclear reactor.  We don't get to see Apollo Base at any point, but the brief descriptions we get describe it as being built on the lunar surface.  The accompanying shipyard where the SDF-2 was built is noted to be underground, though.  It's likely that the civilian residential areas on Luna are above-ground too.  Macross's technology is more advanced than that of Gundam, relaxing the practical restrictions on what kind of structures can be built.  The existence of gravity control technology would make permanent settlement of the moon a much more practical concern.

Presumably other residential areas set up on Luna and so on take full advantage of the advanced technologies available to make them as comfortable as possible.

[sketchley]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

We also see some in the opening animation of Macross VF-X2 (Aegis's Konig Monster steps on one) and some anti-aircraft batteries of various types in the gam'es fourth mission, though they are not named and called simply "Battery A" and "Battery B".

Some ground armaments also appear in Macross Digital Mission VF-X:

• Hover Tank A (tri-barrelled beam gun)
• Large Hover Tank B (beam gun, micro-missiles)
• Floating (Gun) Battery (twin-barreled beam gun)
• Ground (Gun) Battery A (beam gun)
• Ground (Gun) Battery B (beam gun—visually looks like a pair of 3-tube missile launchers)
• Ground (Gun) Battery C (beam gun)
• Space (Gun) Battery A (beam gun, missiles)
• Space (Gun) Battery B (beam gun, micro-missiles, missiles)

※ despite the shared name, the Gun Battery A/B are different in VF-X and VF-X2.

 

At one point, I drew some 'detail up' versions of the Gun Batteries that appear in Macross VF-X2, however, they're not much to look at, as what appears in the game are basic polygon elements that don't appear to have had much thought put into them beyond making them visually distinct from each other (one is a "cube" and the other a "sphere"): http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/GunBattery/GunBattery.php

More effort was put into the ground armaments in Macross Digital Mission VF-X, but they are still rather basic... they're visually similar, but not as detailed as the Jināru Fighter Pod Kai and Rigādo Kai that appear in that game*.

 

* images—line art + in-game: http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/zentraedi/stealth_fighter/stealth_fighter_pod.html , http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/zentraedi/stealth_regult/stealth_regult.html

 

Edited February 9 by sketchley

[aurance]

On 2/8/2025 at 9:02 AM, TG Remix said:

Makes a lot of sense that you'd have to prioritize what resources you need in a environment like that, in a way why by Delta the VF-31's regular gunpod is a railgun, since at a point physical ammunition would be a lot more tedious to handle economically.

The -31’s gun pod is a beam weapon. Its two secondary weapons (on the arms) are rail guns. Also, rail guns do use physical ammunition, just not physical propellant.

[Seto Kaiba]

30 minutes ago, aurance said:

The -31’s gun pod is a beam weapon.

The handheld/container-mounted one, anyway.

 

30 minutes ago, aurance said:

Its two secondary weapons (on the arms) are rail guns.

But they are referred to as gunpods in most publications... usually as a "mini-gunpod" (ミニガンポッド) and "railmachinegun" (レールマシンガン).

 

30 minutes ago, aurance said:

Also, rail guns do use physical ammunition, just not physical propellant.

Some of them, anyway.

A few examples, like the VF-25G's SSL-9 Dragunov, use a railgun system to boost the velocity of a projectile that has already been pre-accelerated by a chemical propellant to achieve maximum stopping power.

[aurance]

Oookay Mr. Pendantic 😉😉

[Seto Kaiba]

After a chaotic period at work forced me to step back from translating, I'm back on the Master File train.

Past a certain point, it starts to feel a bit weird seeing so many publications rave about how amazing and successful the VF-11 Thunderbolt was when its one major appearance in the anime (Macross 7) treated it like it was ineffectual and undercapable.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-22 Sturmvogel II blows more smoke up the VF-11's arse, talking about it being essentially The Perfect Valkyrie of the 2030s and the most-produced Valkyrie of all time.  I guess the QF-4000 Ghost is what's standing between the VF-171 and that title.  It feels a bit funny to look at the VF-11 and then see a book say it has no obvious flaws.  Master File's take is that the VF-11 was apparently SO perfect that more than 30,000 of the bloody things were made and that the military apparently considered themselves to be set until ~2060.

The idea of using Gallium in a structural material is a bit insane too.  The VF-22's flexible skin is said to be a Gallium-based compose called "Galom-Alpha" (feeling a bit Gundam?) made from woven hypercarbon fiber sheeting soaked in this Galom-Alpha non-newtonian metallic composite fluid and then wrapped in a bunch of different film layers that keep it warm (and pliable) and provide protection from various hazards.  

There's also a mention in the VF-22 book of a similar technology to the energy cartridge system that shows up in the VF-31AX book.  They describe an emergency power system that uses burning hydrogen-doped metal cartridges to feed a small capacitor bank and provide electrical power in the case of a loss of generator access.  The VF-31AX book had described something similar for powering the beam gunpod.

The FAST pack section has what I think may be the only mention Macross has of a macron gun AKA a "dust gun".  Basically, particle accelerator that fires a stream of elemental or larger particles instead of elementary particles.  It's described as being kind of a side effect of an attempt to create a fusion-pumped laser cannon with a power output of several hundred megawatts but the laser beam ends up pushing the heavy metal particles used as a gain medium out at near lightspeed thanks to the GIC confinement used to focus the beam.  Nasty nasty weapon.

[PixelatedShinobi]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

After a chaotic period at work forced me to step back from translating, I'm back on the Master File train.

Past a certain point, it starts to feel a bit weird seeing so many publications rave about how amazing and successful the VF-11 Thunderbolt was when its one major appearance in the anime (Macross 7) treated it like it was ineffectual and undercapable.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-22 Sturmvogel II blows more smoke up the VF-11's arse, talking about it being essentially The Perfect Valkyrie of the 2030s and the most-produced Valkyrie of all time.  I guess the QF-4000 Ghost is what's standing between the VF-171 and that title.  It feels a bit funny to look at the VF-11 and then see a book say it has no obvious flaws.  Master File's take is that the VF-11 was apparently SO perfect that more than 30,000 of the bloody things were made and that the military apparently considered themselves to be set until ~2060.

 

my poor, poor baby. my dear sweet baby girl. vf-11b thunderbolt you were too good of a design for us to spend 95% of your career onscreen jobbing out. at least it gets some nice use in VF-X2 and with that sweet paintjob too.

[Knight26]

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

After a chaotic period at work forced me to step back from translating, I'm back on the Master File train.

Past a certain point, it starts to feel a bit weird seeing so many publications rave about how amazing and successful the VF-11 Thunderbolt was when its one major appearance in the anime (Macross 7) treated it like it was ineffectual and undercapable.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-22 Sturmvogel II blows more smoke up the VF-11's arse, talking about it being essentially The Perfect Valkyrie of the 2030s and the most-produced Valkyrie of all time.  I guess the QF-4000 Ghost is what's standing between the VF-171 and that title.  It feels a bit funny to look at the VF-11 and then see a book say it has no obvious flaws.  Master File's take is that the VF-11 was apparently SO perfect that more than 30,000 of the bloody things were made and that the military apparently considered themselves to be set until ~2060.

The idea of using Gallium in a structural material is a bit insane too.  The VF-22's flexible skin is said to be a Gallium-based compose called "Galom-Alpha" (feeling a bit Gundam?) made from woven hypercarbon fiber sheeting soaked in this Galom-Alpha non-newtonian metallic composite fluid and then wrapped in a bunch of different film layers that keep it warm (and pliable) and provide protection from various hazards.  

There's also a mention in the VF-22 book of a similar technology to the energy cartridge system that shows up in the VF-31AX book.  They describe an emergency power system that uses burning hydrogen-doped metal cartridges to feed a small capacitor bank and provide electrical power in the case of a loss of generator access.  The VF-31AX book had described something similar for powering the beam gunpod.

The FAST pack section has what I think may be the only mention Macross has of a macron gun AKA a "dust gun".  Basically, particle accelerator that fires a stream of elemental or larger particles instead of elementary particles.  It's described as being kind of a side effect of an attempt to create a fusion-pumped laser cannon with a power output of several hundred megawatts but the laser beam ends up pushing the heavy metal particles used as a gain medium out at near lightspeed thanks to the GIC confinement used to focus the beam.  Nasty nasty weapon.

Not so hard to believe.  The VF-11 is basically the Macross equivalent of an F-16 or F-18.  It's a great all-around fighter but nothing spectacular.  So the YF-19 and YF-21 are developed to support and supplant it, but like the F-22 only end up getting produced in limited numbers to be used by the top pilots, instead of being the equivalent of an F-15 as intended.  The VF-171 then becomes the logical follow on a decade or so later being their F-35, which makes a ton of sense when you realize that the F-35 is basically the evolution of the F-117 that can carry more armaments, have better avionics, and can defend itself.  The "hero" fighters in MacF and Delta are then basically the NGAD or FA-XX equivalents.

[pengbuzz]

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

After a chaotic period at work forced me to step back from translating, I'm back on the Master File train.

Past a certain point, it starts to feel a bit weird seeing so many publications rave about how amazing and successful the VF-11 Thunderbolt was when its one major appearance in the anime (Macross 7) treated it like it was ineffectual and undercapable.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-22 Sturmvogel II blows more smoke up the VF-11's arse, talking about it being essentially The Perfect Valkyrie of the 2030s and the most-produced Valkyrie of all time.  I guess the QF-4000 Ghost is what's standing between the VF-171 and that title.  It feels a bit funny to look at the VF-11 and then see a book say it has no obvious flaws.  Master File's take is that the VF-11 was apparently SO perfect that more than 30,000 of the bloody things were made and that the military apparently considered themselves to be set until ~2060.

The idea of using Gallium in a structural material is a bit insane too.  The VF-22's flexible skin is said to be a Gallium-based compose called "Galom-Alpha" (feeling a bit Gundam?) made from woven hypercarbon fiber sheeting soaked in this Galom-Alpha non-newtonian metallic composite fluid and then wrapped in a bunch of different film layers that keep it warm (and pliable) and provide protection from various hazards.  

There's also a mention in the VF-22 book of a similar technology to the energy cartridge system that shows up in the VF-31AX book.  They describe an emergency power system that uses burning hydrogen-doped metal cartridges to feed a small capacitor bank and provide electrical power in the case of a loss of generator access.  The VF-31AX book had described something similar for powering the beam gunpod.

The FAST pack section has what I think may be the only mention Macross has of a macron gun AKA a "dust gun".  Basically, particle accelerator that fires a stream of elemental or larger particles instead of elementary particles.  It's described as being kind of a side effect of an attempt to create a fusion-pumped laser cannon with a power output of several hundred megawatts but the laser beam ends up pushing the heavy metal particles used as a gain medium out at near lightspeed thanks to the GIC confinement used to focus the beam.  Nasty nasty weapon.

Yeah, I call BS on them using that, being particularly familiar with Gallium's properties. It melts aluminum just by being placed on it, and reacts to a lesser extent with other metals.

They may as well use peanut butter for all the good it would do.

Edited Thursday at 07:05 PM by pengbuzz

[TG Remix]

On 3/5/2025 at 7:19 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Past a certain point, it starts to feel a bit weird seeing so many publications rave about how amazing and successful the VF-11 Thunderbolt was when its one major appearance in the anime (Macross 7) treated it like it was ineffectual and undercapable.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-22 Sturmvogel II blows more smoke up the VF-11's arse, talking about it being essentially The Perfect Valkyrie of the 2030s and the most-produced Valkyrie of all time.  I guess the QF-4000 Ghost is what's standing between the VF-171 and that title.  It feels a bit funny to look at the VF-11 and then see a book say it has no obvious flaws.  Master File's take is that the VF-11 was apparently SO perfect that more than 30,000 of the bloody things were made and that the military apparently considered themselves to be set until ~2060.

Wow, no wonder these things were everywhere in the civilian market in The Ride, much less the Frontier fleet having a surplus amount of them still somewhat in use. Can never go wrong with a balanced performing grunt like that....until the story knocks them about, but it's not their fault they were dealing with VF-14s injected with space steroids with eldritch space vampires as their leaders. On the topic of Shinsei technology, are they known for doing more than just developing variable fighters, or they didn't really open their wings like General Galaxy and LAI did with ships and down to common appliances?

 

And another note, do we have any word on what kind of cargo ships the UN/New UN operated before and after SWI? Reading the timeline on the end of certain Macross 7 Trash volumes (Which side note, was not a fun read other then Mikimoto's almost criminal art direction, it's the only thing I'd say I dislike from the franchise overall. Seriously, where did he get the idea that Zentradi lacked emotions from humans they treat it as a drug?), it said while long range emigrant fleets used specifically designed ships for the journey like the Megaroad-class, the short-range emigrant ships only used lightly equipped, old transport ships due to the population boom on Earth and lack of resources. Though years later in the Otani interview, Kawamori said a lot of old Zentradi ships were used as colony ships for short ranges. Coupled with the fact that the Meltran LSTs were used as transport ships in VF-X2's third mission, I have the working theory that at least some of those and the Quiltra Queleual class ships of the same purpose were refitted into colony ships, whether as intact examples or some of the literal thousands of wrecks that crashed to Earth.

[JB0]

17 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Yeah, I call BS on them using that, being particularly familiar with Gallium's properties. It melts aluminum just by being placed on it, and reacts to a lesser extent with other metals.

They may as well use peanut butter for all the good it would do.

Sure, it alloys with aluminum to form a metal with all the durability of wet tissue paper, but what does it do with hypercarbon?

 

(Apparently gallium is used in nuclear weapon production, because a plutonium-gallium alloy is much easier to work with.)

[Seto Kaiba]

On 3/6/2025 at 2:03 PM, pengbuzz said:

Yeah, I call BS on them using that, being particularly familiar with Gallium's properties. It melts aluminum just by being placed on it, and reacts to a lesser extent with other metals.

They may as well use peanut butter for all the good it would do.

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

Sure, it alloys with aluminum to form a metal with all the durability of wet tissue paper, but what does it do with hypercarbon?

 

(Apparently gallium is used in nuclear weapon production, because a plutonium-gallium alloy is much easier to work with.)

"Galom-α" seems to be even weirder than that, really... it's described as something akin to a non-newtonian fluid (like cornstarch and water).  It's a liquid metal alloy of gallium and an unspecified OTMetal that has a superhigh viscosity.  On its own, it's said that if you were to fill a pool with Galom-α you could sink in it if you stood still... or you could run across the surface like a solid.  It's noted that this makes the material extremely resistant to impacts of short duration (e.g. explosions), but paradoxically soft to sustained pressures like simply leaning on it.  You could reversibly dent it just by pushing hard, but an explosion won't even move it.

The actuators for deforming the wing are embedded in it as part of a hypercarbon fiber structural sheet and the whole thing is wrapped in an outer skin to keep the Galom-α from falling off the surface... but combined like that, it apparently makes for a highly durable reversibly deformable airfoil that isn't subject to normal strain-point weaknesses.

 

For reference, the Mythbusters Walking on Water episode's demonstration of cornstarch and water's properties...

 

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

"Galom-α" seems to be even weirder than that, really... it's described as something akin to a non-newtonian fluid (like cornstarch and water).  It's a liquid metal alloy of gallium and an unspecified OTMetal that has a superhigh viscosity.  On its own, it's said that if you were to fill a pool with Galom-α you could sink in it if you stood still... or you could run across the surface like a solid.  It's noted that this makes the material extremely resistant to impacts of short duration (e.g. explosions), but paradoxically soft to sustained pressures like simply leaning on it.  You could reversibly dent it just by pushing hard, but an explosion won't even move it.

The actuators for deforming the wing are embedded in it as part of a hypercarbon fiber structural sheet and the whole thing is wrapped in an outer skin to keep the Galom-α from falling off the surface... but combined like that, it apparently makes for a highly durable reversibly deformable airfoil that isn't subject to normal strain-point weaknesses.

 

For reference, the Mythbusters Walking on Water episode's demonstration of cornstarch and water's properties...

 

So what happens if, you know....  someone shoots the wing?

[Seto Kaiba]

15 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

So what happens if, you know....  someone shoots the wing?

Based on Master File's description, the layered stretchable skin applied over the Galom-α and hypercarbon fiber mesh frame that forms the exterior of the wing surface contains the energy conversion armor and other protective measures against heat and energy weapons.

[pengbuzz]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Based on Master File's description, the layered stretchable skin applied over the Galom-α and hypercarbon fiber mesh frame that forms the exterior of the wing surface contains the energy conversion armor and other protective measures against heat and energy weapons.

Understood; I was thinking more along the lines of solid ammo puncturing the wing and leaking the stuff all over the place.

Spoiler

Also laughing myself silly over the thought of Guld's YF-21 turning into a ball and bouncing all over the desert floor at New Edwards (this would suppose that the entire craft were made of this stuff*). 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

*yes; I know I'm weird.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

On 3/5/2025 at 8:28 PM, PixelatedShinobi said:

my poor, poor baby. my dear sweet baby girl. vf-11b thunderbolt you were too good of a design for us to spend 95% of your career onscreen jobbing out. at least it gets some nice use in VF-X2 and with that sweet paintjob too.

Kind of an occupational hazard of main VFs, it seems... the VF-4, VF-11, and VF-171 spent almost their entire service lives offscreen and the latter two's main appearances were at the end of their generation's service life jobbing against superior foes.  It's only ever in comics, games, or novels that they get to shine.  I think the only protagonist who has a VF-11 as their main/signature ride is Macross 30's Mina Forte.  (Still salty Bandai only gave us a DX YF-30 and not a VF-19E and VF-11C to go with it.)

 

On 3/6/2025 at 1:57 PM, Knight26 said:

Not so hard to believe.  The VF-11 is basically the Macross equivalent of an F-16 or F-18.  It's a great all-around fighter but nothing spectacular.  So the YF-19 and YF-21 are developed to support and supplant it, but like the F-22 only end up getting produced in limited numbers to be used by the top pilots, instead of being the equivalent of an F-15 as intended.  The VF-171 then becomes the logical follow on a decade or so later being their F-35, which makes a ton of sense when you realize that the F-35 is basically the evolution of the F-117 that can carry more armaments, have better avionics, and can defend itself.  The "hero" fighters in MacF and Delta are then basically the NGAD or FA-XX equivalents.

Hm... to be honest, I'd call it Macross's version of the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom.

Both the F-4 Phantom and VF-11 Thunderbolt are 3rd Generation fighter designs in their respective lineages.  Both are the most-produced fighter of their type.  Both are used by multiple branches of the service.  Both are noteworthy for their main flaw being lack of a built-in gun.  Both were converted into target drones for testing newer model aircraft at end-of-life.  

One particularly backhanded connection I found is the first VF-11 paintjob in This is Animation Special: Macross Plus is a reference to the 35th Tactical Fighter Wing, a decorated USAF unit that operated out of Japan at several points after the Second World War and was responsible for training foreign pilots on the F-4.  The exemplar aircraft has the same camo paint style as the 35th's F-4s, has the same iconic WW tail code, and is even noted to be assigned to the same airbase (the now-defunct George AFB) where the 35th did all its F-4 training ops.  Perhaps not coincidentally, the 35th Fighter Wing was transferred back to Japan about two months after Macross Plus's first episode came out.

 

16 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Wow, no wonder these things were everywhere in the civilian market in The Ride, much less the Frontier fleet having a surplus amount of them still somewhat in use. Can never go wrong with a balanced performing grunt like that....until the story knocks them about, but it's not their fault they were dealing with VF-14s injected with space steroids with eldritch space vampires as their leaders.

Yeah, with ~30,000 of the bloody things kicking around... that's enough to fully outfit almost 17 Macross 7-sized emigrant fleets worth of the things.  

If we take Master File's remarks on scrapping VFs as guidance, it probably also helped that the structural strength of materials used in VF construction makes them difficult and time consuming to scrap and recycle by conventional boneyard methods.

 

16 hours ago, TG Remix said:

On the topic of Shinsei technology, are they known for doing more than just developing variable fighters, or they didn't really open their wings like General Galaxy and LAI did with ships and down to common appliances?

IIRC, Shinsei Industry also has a branch that specializes in starship design... and as a parent of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry it's also involved in making things like reactors, reaction engines, armor, VF option packs, and missiles.

 

16 hours ago, TG Remix said:

And another note, do we have any word on what kind of cargo ships the UN/New UN operated before and after SWI?

Not really.  We know that they exist, since obviously some kind of interstellar shipping has to be happening for commerce to go on and we know that Richard Bilra built his HUGE fortune on an interstellar shipping empire that had SMS as its private security force.

We didn't actually clap eyes on one until Macross Delta, which showed us cargo ships of the 2060s are something like the lovechild of a container ship and 18 wheeler.  A massive flatbed hull that was loaded with spacefuture versions of standard shipping containers.  There are several other ships of questionable purpose in the refugee fleet that flees the Brisingr cluster halfway through the series that may be logistics/cargo ships from the Epsilon Foundation.

 

16 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Seriously, where did he get the idea that Zentradi lacked emotions from humans they treat it as a drug?

That's a bit of Macross II creeping in, I think.  In Macross II, the Mardook are noted to use songs to trigger emotional responses in their brainwashed Zentradi like a combat drug.  I think Mikimoto and co. slipped a fair few Macross II references in there.  The pilot suit Mahara Fabrio wears is a modified version of the one Mikimoto designed for Macross 2036, one of the Macross II tie-in/prequel games.

In DYRL? and the TV series, the Zentradi definitely have emotions... but some are stunted by indoctrination steering them away from creative and constructive pursuits.  It was music that let them start to explore their sense of wonder and emotions outside those closely associated with their military duties.

 

16 hours ago, TG Remix said:

it said while long range emigrant fleets used specifically designed ships for the journey like the Megaroad-class, the short-range emigrant ships only used lightly equipped, old transport ships due to the population boom on Earth and lack of resources. Though years later in the Otani interview, Kawamori said a lot of old Zentradi ships were used as colony ships for short ranges. Coupled with the fact that the Meltran LSTs were used as transport ships in VF-X2's third mission, I have the working theory that at least some of those and the Quiltra Queleual class ships of the same purpose were refitted into colony ships, whether as intact examples or some of the literal thousands of wrecks that crashed to Earth.

It wouldn't surprise me.  After all, Earth had a hundred or so working Zentradi ships after the war and thousands upon thousands of wrecks to pick over for materials.

I'd imagine cargo ships probably aren't anything fancy to look at.  Probably just a box with some engines on.  

Maybe Galaxy Starliners are used to carry light cargo and mail and such like modern airliners are?  The Stellar Whale-type we see in Macross Plus was NOT small.  It could likely carry quite a bit.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Understood; I was thinking more along the lines of solid ammo puncturing the wing and leaking the stuff all over the place.

  Hide contents

Also laughing myself silly over the thought of Guld's YF-21 turning into a ball and bouncing all over the desert floor at New Edwards (this would suppose that the entire craft were made of this stuff*). 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

*yes; I know I'm weird.

 

TBH, that does sound like a pretty plausible problem... if someone pierces the energy conversion armor with an explosive armor-piercing rounds, you could end up with Galom leaking out (however slowly) until the wing surface was completely gone.

(As far as jokes go, I made and then deleted a Terminator 2 reference when I started calling it "liquid metal alloy"... alas, no mention of the YF-21/VF-22 being able to form knives and stabbing weapons.)

[pengbuzz]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

TBH, that does sound like a pretty plausible problem... if someone pierces the energy conversion armor with an explosive armor-piercing rounds, you could end up with Galom leaking out (however slowly) until the wing surface was completely gone.

That was my thought. I know IRL, the Javelin missile uses a "tandem warhead" to defeat armor, but that's not exactly what we're talking about.

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(As far as jokes go, I made and then deleted a Terminator 2 reference when I started calling it "liquid metal alloy"... alas, no mention of the YF-21/VF-22 being able to form knives and stabbing weapons.)

Ahnuld as Guld, Michael Biehn as Isamu... :lol:

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

That was my thought. I know IRL, the Javelin missile uses a "tandem warhead" to defeat armor, but that's not exactly what we're talking about.

I'd imagine a gunpod round is probably too small to get away with a tandem warhead like the Javelin's.

Official setting publications mention a few different types of ammunition being used in Valkyrie gunpods, but they're pretty conventional stuff.  The common ancestor of Valkyrie gunpods, the VF-0's GPU-9, is described as using composite heavy metal armor-piercing rounds and airbursting tungsten submunition rounds (AHEAD rounds).  The Technology Sheet for gunpods in Macross Chronicle mentions five distinct ammo types and implies the existence of others:

• High Explosive Armor Piercing (HEAP)
• High Explosive Incendiary (HEI)
• Armor Piercing Incendiary (API)
• Advanced Hit Efficiency and Destruction (AHEAD)
• Micro Dimension Eater (MDE)

We can safely say that Tracer rounds, Training rounds, and Paint rounds exist because they appear onscreen at various points... most prominently in Macross Plus.

Variable Fighter Master File, for its part, explicitly mentions five types in the first VF-1 book:

• Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot - Depleted Uranium (APDS-DU) 
• Armor Piercing Tracer (AP-T)
• Shot Shell (SS)
• High Explosive Anti-Composite Armor (HEACA)
• Multipurpose (MP)

HEACA rounds are described in vague terms to be shaped-charge warheads designed to defeat (OTM) composite armor.  They mention the Munroe effect, but also mention that other techniques can be/are also used.  Multipurpose rounds are mentioned to be similar to the Bofors 3P bullet, a programmable proximity-fused blast-fragmentation round that can be configured to operate in several different ways depending on the target.  There's also mention, in passing, of rocket-propelled variants of this ammunition to reduce recoil forces and for space use.

The VF-19 Master File mentions two more subtypes.  The GU-15A is said to use a Base Bleed (AKA Base Burn) round that increases range and muzzle velocity via drag reduction as its standard, and also mentions Howard developing a dual-feed magazine to accommodate both normal ammo and a specially developed hard resin round meant for riot use.

 

So I guess we're part of the way there... we know, at the very least, they're using the individual types of explosive warheads that are used in those two-stage missile warheads, just not together (as far as we know).

Edited Saturday at 06:13 PM by Seto Kaiba

[pengbuzz]

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd imagine a gunpod round is probably too small to get away with a tandem warhead like the Javelin's.

Official setting publications mention a few different types of ammunition being used in Valkyrie gunpods, but they're pretty conventional stuff.  The common ancestor of Valkyrie gunpods, the VF-0's GPU-9, is described as using composite heavy metal armor-piercing rounds and airbursting tungsten submunition rounds (AHEAD rounds).  The Technology Sheet for gunpods in Macross Chronicle mentions five distinct ammo types and implies the existence of others:

• High Explosive Armor Piercing (HEAP)
• High Explosive Incendiary (HEI)
• Armor Piercing Incendiary (API)
• Advanced Hit Efficiency and Destruction (AHEAD)
• Micro Dimension Eater (MDE)

We can safely say that Tracer rounds, Training rounds, and Paint rounds exist because they appear onscreen at various points... most prominently in Macross Plus.

Variable Fighter Master File, for its part, explicitly mentions five types in the first VF-1 book:

• Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot - Depleted Uranium (APDS-DU) 
• Armor Piercing Tracer (AP-T)
• Shot Shell (SS)
• High Explosive Anti-Composite Armor (HEACA)
• Multipurpose (MP)

HEACA rounds are described in vague terms to be shaped-charge warheads designed to defeat (OTM) composite armor.  They mention the Munroe effect, but also mention that other techniques can be/are also used.  Multipurpose rounds are mentioned to be similar to the Bofors 3P bullet, a programmable proximity-fused blast-fragmentation round that can be configured to operate in several different ways depending on the target.  There's also mention, in passing, of rocket-propelled variants of this ammunition to reduce recoil forces and for space use.

The VF-19 Master File mentions two more subtypes.  The GU-15A is said to use a Base Bleed (AKA Base Burn) round that increases range and muzzle velocity via drag reduction as its standard, and also mentions Howard developing a dual-feed magazine to accommodate both normal ammo and a specially developed hard resin round meant for riot use.

 

So I guess we're part of the way there... we know, at the very least, they're using the individual types of explosive warheads that are used in those two-stage missile warheads, just not together (as far as we know).

I would imagine that they could develop something were the the need to do so.

[TG Remix]

On 3/8/2025 at 1:15 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

If we take Master File's remarks on scrapping VFs as guidance, it probably also helped that the structural strength of materials used in VF construction makes them difficult and time consuming to scrap and recycle by conventional boneyard methods.

Makes sense, considering a giant mech that can transform into an aircraft would be hard to deconstruct in general. And in this economy, best to use everything for their worth.

 

On 3/8/2025 at 1:15 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

One particularly backhanded connection I found is the first VF-11 paintjob in This is Animation Special: Macross Plus is a reference to the 35th Tactical Fighter Wing, a decorated USAF unit that operated out of Japan at several points after the Second World War and was responsible for training foreign pilots on the F-4. 

Now I'm wondering what was the references for the SVMF-42 Blue Phoenix VF-4s, until Frontier's 33rd Marine Battalion there wasn't really any indicator of the Marine branch of the NUNS. I thought the same thing about the VF-2 Sonic Birds squadron for the VF-1, but that was understandably connected to the CVN-101 Prometheus before the plot literally connected it to the Macross.

 

On 3/8/2025 at 1:15 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

That's a bit of Macross II creeping in, I think.  In Macross II, the Mardook are noted to use songs to trigger emotional responses in their brainwashed Zentradi like a combat drug.  I think Mikimoto and co. slipped a fair few Macross II references in there.  The pilot suit Mahara Fabrio wears is a modified version of the one Mikimoto designed for Macross 2036, one of the Macross II tie-in/prequel games.

That would explain some things...But like you mentioned they were more stunted emotionally as opposed to "fighting unemotionally" like the brain in the jar explained. If anything it's been consistently the opposite even the standard antagonist rogue Zentradi forces are very passionate to living life as warriors.

 

The pilot suit always did feel faintly familiar, and I'm glad it probably wasn't just due to Mikimoto's general style. Always liked the 2036 and Eternal Song pilot suits, they're almost like a good blend between both Earth and Zentradi aesthetics instead of one of the other.

 

On 3/8/2025 at 1:15 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Maybe Galaxy Starliners are used to carry light cargo and mail and such like modern airliners are?  The Stellar Whale-type we see in Macross Plus was NOT small.  It could likely carry quite a bit.

Around 776 meters long and can accommodate up to 4500 people, I'd imagine so. It seemed more like a cruise ship then just a something of an airliner like Plus more or less painted it as.

 

On more unknowns of the UN sphere, I know I asked about how Apollo Base and the lunar colony would be like in Macross, and from what I remember there's more colonized moons like Ganymede. Though what got my attention was the other settlements in the rest of the solar system. Miho Miho was said to have been born on a satellite city named "White Flora" that was in Jupiter's orbit, and it seems that Neptune and Venus has their own as well. I'm assuming we don't know much of them as well, but I was imagining something like the City-class ships as a frame of reference, unless they were something more typically designed like O'Neil Cylinders and the like.

 

On 3/8/2025 at 1:04 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

We can safely say that Tracer rounds, Training rounds, and Paint rounds exist because they appear onscreen at various points... most prominently in Macross Plus.

Wondering for the VFs who have internalized beam guns like the VF-17 could have paint or training rounds stored inside them, since of course the ammunition wouldn't be physical.

 

On 3/8/2025 at 9:36 AM, pengbuzz said:

Ahnuld as Guld, Michael Biehn as Isamu...

Does this make Sharon and the Ghost Skynet and Robert Patrick lol.