Seto Kaiba Posted January 23 Posted January 23 9 hours ago, Devil 505 said: Even then, the YF-21 and VF-22 is built for higher speeds, as seen with the variable-droop wings that presumably utilize compression lift, as seen with the XB-70 Valkyrie. Potentially, though the difference in actual speed between the YF-21/VF-22 and YF/VF-19 is pretty small and in both cases their speed at ~10km is, as @sketchley noted, mainly limited by friction heating of the fuselage caused by air resistance. Even the later 5th Generation VFs are limited to not more than about Mach 5.5 at 10km because otherwise the friction heating caused by the air at that airspeed will reach damaging levels. Quote
Devil 505 Posted January 24 Posted January 24 9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Potentially, though the difference in actual speed between the YF-21/VF-22 and YF/VF-19 is pretty small and in both cases their speed at ~10km is, as @sketchley noted, mainly limited by friction heating of the fuselage caused by air resistance. Even the later 5th Generation VFs are limited to not more than about Mach 5.5 at 10km because otherwise the friction heating caused by the air at that airspeed will reach damaging levels. Veering a bit off-topic, but I do recall that at one point, NASA funded research into ultra high temperature ceramic composites that could withstand sustained Mach 7 flight at sea level. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted January 24 Posted January 24 40 minutes ago, Devil 505 said: Veering a bit off-topic, but I do recall that at one point, NASA funded research into ultra high temperature ceramic composites that could withstand sustained Mach 7 flight at sea level. Yeah, there are ceramic composites like the RCC and LI-900 used in space shuttle thermal tiles and various aerogels and high-entropy alloys that have extremely high heat resistance. The main problem with the ceramic composites and aerogels is that they tend to be extremely brittle, and the high entropy alloys are hard to produce, have high materials costs, and a host of other practical drawbacks. Macross's solution was better carbon-based materials, eventually culminating in an all-hypercarbon version of RCC on the VF-25 if you take Master File's word for it. Quote
pengbuzz Posted January 25 Posted January 25 On 1/23/2024 at 9:18 PM, Seto Kaiba said: Yeah, there are ceramic composites like the RCC and LI-900 used in space shuttle thermal tiles and various aerogels and high-entropy alloys that have extremely high heat resistance. The main problem with the ceramic composites and aerogels is that they tend to be extremely brittle, and the high entropy alloys are hard to produce, have high materials costs, and a host of other practical drawbacks. Macross's solution was better carbon-based materials, eventually culminating in an all-hypercarbon version of RCC on the VF-25 if you take Master File's word for it. Well, they could always use insults to Southern Cross as a method of resisting extremely high heat at Mach speeds. After all, those are pretty cold... 😛 Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 11 Posted February 11 Ended up fielding a bunch of different questions about the subject of VF generations last night on Discord and Facebook, so I figured I'd update this listing of mine with the latest information since I haven't touched it since December 2021. 😅 For the sake of convenience, the following rant will be color-coded! VFs that officially exist and have appeared in a Macross official setting work VFs that officially exist and have NOT appeared in a Macross official setting work. VFs that exist solely in non-official works like Variable Fighter Master File VFs whose placement is speculative. Last Edited: 11 Feb 2024 - Added VB-4, VB-5, revised Sv-154 Svard placement, added unmanned Neo Glaug, revised naming convention for Neo Glaug bis, revised Generation 5.5 and Generation 6 entirely. Generation 0 - "Prototype Generation" This generation is purely speculative and exists mainly to segregate designs that do not fully comply with the design qualifications for the First Generation Variable Fighter (e.g. thermonuclear reaction turbine engines) and were built principally for evaluation purposes rather than mass produced for actual combat service. YVF-X-0 VF-0 Phoenix (YVF-X-0B) VF-0-NF Sv-50 Sv-51 Sv-51Σ (Unmanned Sv-51) Generation 0.5 - "Upgraded Prototype Generation" This generation contains designs that exist only in Variable Fighter Master File. These VF designs are upgrades of the 0th Generation prototypes that were upgraded with technology from 1st Generation VFs or otherwise modernized to make them viable for long-duration operation. VF-0+ Phoenix Plus Sv-51Ω (Repurposed incomplete Sv-52 with conventional engines) Generation 1 - "First Generation" The defining traits of this generation are the adoption of Overtechnology, including thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, laser weaponry, energy converting armor, etc. in a production variable fighter. Sv-52 VF-1 Valkyrie VF-X-2 Generation 1.5 - "Upgraded First Generation" First Generation designs upgraded with Second Generation hardware drawn from the VF-4. Sv-51 Replica (Macross 30) VF-0 Phoenix Replica (Macross 30) VF-1 Valkyrie Plus (Blocks 6 and later, incl. VF-1X) VF-1P Freyja Valkyrie VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus VF-1C Civilian Valkyrie VF-1EX Valkyrie EX VF-3000S Crusader VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie Generation 2 - "Specialization for Emigrant Fleets" The hallmarks of the Second Generation designs include the adoption of Zentradi overtechnology, refinements for regime-optimized performance in either atmosphere or space, "lessons learned" from the First Space War, and optionally the adoption of particle beam weaponry. Most were intended for use by emigrant fleets, with low cost, simplified manufacturing, and parts-sharing. VF-X-3 VF-4 Lightning III VF-3000S Crusader VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie VF-5000 Star Mirage VF-5 VF-6 VF-7 VF-9 Cutlass VF-X-10 V-BR-2 VA-X-3 VB-4 VB-5 Generation 2.5 - "Upgraded Second Generation" Second Generation VFs that were modernized to keep them in service alongside Third Generation VFs. VF-4G Lightning III VF-5000G Star Mirage VF-9E Cutlass Generation 3 - "Project Nova and Diversification" The Third Generation VFs are defined chiefly by the Project Nova design contest that decided the generation's main variable fighter as a true all-purpose successor to the VF-1 Valkyrie, but also by the continuing diversification of variable craft design into dedicated Attacker and Bomber roles. VF-11 Thunderbolt VF-14 Vampire VF-15 VF-17[A-C] Nightmare VA-14 VAB-2 VA-3 Invader VBP-1/VA-110 Variable Glaug VB-6 König Monster Generation 3.5 - "Upgraded Third Generation" Third Generation VFs that've been modernized or upgraded with technology drawn from Fourth Generation VFs to keep them viable or evaluate technologies meant for Fourth Generation implementation. VF-11MAXL Thunderbolt VF-11C Thunderbolt Interceptor VF-16 VF-17[D-T] Nightmare XVF-19 (a modified VF-11) Fz-109 Elgersoln Az-130 Panzersoln FBz-99 Zaubergern Generation 4 - "Project Super Nova: the Advanced Variable Fighter" The Fourth Generation's distinctive design traits are among the best known in Macross. The adoption of the next-gen ARIEL airframe control AI, thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines, fighter-scale pinpoint barrier systems, and native compatibility for fold boosters. This generation was largely defined by Project Super Nova, the ultimately futile contest between the YF-19 and YF-21 at Eden's New Edwards Test Flight Center. The insurmountable technological and performance complications of the two designs led to a third design, the VF-171, becoming this generation's main variable fighter. VF-19 Excalibur YF-21 VF-22 Sturmvogel II VF-22 Sturmvogel II (SMS Type) VF/B-22 Jagdvogel II VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II) VB-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II) RVF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II) Sv-154 Svard Feios Valkyrie Fz-109G Elgersoln Gustav Neo Glaug (Macross Plus Game Edition unmanned version) VBP-1/VA-110 Neo Glaug bis (Macross R/Macross F novel version) Generation 4.5 - "Upgraded Fourth Generation" The Generation 4.5 designs are few, and consist mostly of VF designs that were either upgraded to evaluate tech for eventual adoption by Generation 5 designs, or ones that were upgraded in extremis to make them more effective in combat against the Vajra. VF-19ACTIVE Nothung VF-19EF Caliburn RVF-19EF Caliburn VF-19EF/A Excalibur ADVANCE VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Manfred" VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Ushio Todo Custom" VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Block III and IIIF) VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX Thrones Custom (Macross E version) RVF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX Queadluun Alma Generation 5 - "Project Evolution and Decentralized Development" The Fifth Generation of Variable Fighters started development as a response to the disastrous first contact with the insectoid alien race known as the Vajra. Existing VF designs proved utterly inadequate to rival the performance of Vajra drones, and new programs were launched to develop countermeasures for the high-g forces and other major problems with the newly finalized Fourth Generation. The design hallmarks of Fifth Generation Variable Fighters include the adoption of Inertia Store Converter technology to insulate the cockpit against high g-forces, Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, contactless Linear Actuator technology for transformation, the ARIEL II airframe control AI, Extender Gear (EX-Gear) user interfaces, Advanced Energy Conversion Armor (ASWAG), and heavy quantum beam weaponry. YF-24 YF-24 Evolution VF-24 YF-25 Prophecy VF-25 Messiah YF-26 YF-27 Shahar VF-27 Lucifer YF-28 VF-31 Kairos Queadluun Alma Generation 5.5 - "Upgraded Fifth Generation" The precise criteria for the Sixth Generation of Variable Fighters are still somewhat unclear in the absence of a true production Sixth Generation Variable Fighter. Materials from Macross Delta and its movie Absolute Live!!!!!! have offered some clues as to the defining features of the Sixth Generation that reframe several Macross Frontier-era designs as experimental or prototype Sixth Gen VF designs and offered some additional clarity for the intermediate Generation 5.5 designs. The foundational feature of the Sixth Generation is fold wave resonance technologies based on fold quartz which are used to boost the performance of systems that use fold waves natively (e.g. thermonuclear reactors, dimensional beam weapons) and to supplement a Variable Fighter's energy supply by extracting energy directly from higher-dimension space. Fifth Generation designs retrofitted with these technologies or scaled-down versions of these technologies are tentatively (or officially) now classified as Generation 5.5 designs. VF-31 Siegfried (Xaos Valkyrie Works custom) VF-31AX Kairos Plus Sv-262 Draken III Sv-300 Sv-301 Sv-302 Sv-303 Vivasvat Generation 6 - "Fold Waves for All" Until recently, there was no concrete information about the Sixth Generation of Variable Fighters other than its hypothetical existence based on one design being officially classified as a 5.5th Gen custom variable fighter. Materials published for the movie Absolute Live!!!!!! have offered more clarity on the matter and reassigned several Frontier-era VF designs that were previously treated as Fifth Generation "super prototypes" as Sixth Generation experimental or prototype Variable Fighters. Their key design feature is the adoption of fold quartz-based fold wave resonance technology that operates synergistically with systems that use fold waves natively like thermonuclear reactors, inertia store converters, dimensional beam weapons and the like to improve performance to a level beyond what is achievable with fold carbon or without fold wave resonance effects. Other new technologies suggested to be a part of the Sixth Generation requirements are the adoption of layered energy conversion armor as a material for the VF's structural frame, Ghost "parasite aircraft" wingmen, and next generation energy conversion armor, active stealth, and communication technology that uses fold waves in place of electromagnetic waves and allows the entire aircraft skin to function as a composite sensor. YF-28 YF-29 Durandal YF-29B Perceval YF-29C (Earth NUNS trial production version) YF-30 Chronos YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Version) VF-31AX Kairos Plus VF-31X (Experimental 6th Generation VF) Sv-303 Vivasvat Quote
pengbuzz Posted February 11 Posted February 11 2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Ended up fielding a bunch of different questions about the subject of VF generations last night on Discord and Facebook, so I figured I'd update this listing of mine with the latest information since I haven't touched it since December 2021. 😅 For the sake of convenience, the following rant will be color-coded! VFs that officially exist and have appeared in a Macross official setting work VFs that officially exist and have NOT appeared in a Macross official setting work. VFs that exist solely in non-official works like Variable Fighter Master File VFs whose placement is speculative. Last Edited: 11 Feb 2024 - Added VB-4, VB-5, revised Sv-154 Svard placement, added unmanned Neo Glaug, revised naming convention for Neo Glaug bis, revised Generation 5.5 and Generation 6 entirely. Generation 0 - "Prototype Generation" This generation is purely speculative and exists mainly to segregate designs that do not fully comply with the design qualifications for the First Generation Variable Fighter (e.g. thermonuclear reaction turbine engines) and were built principally for evaluation purposes rather than mass produced for actual combat service. YVF-X-0 VF-0 Phoenix (YVF-X-0B) VF-0-NF Sv-50 Sv-51 Sv-51Σ (Unmanned Sv-51) Generation 0.5 - "Upgraded Prototype Generation" This generation contains designs that exist only in Variable Fighter Master File. These VF designs are upgrades of the 0th Generation prototypes that were upgraded with technology from 1st Generation VFs or otherwise modernized to make them viable for long-duration operation. VF-0+ Phoenix Plus Sv-51Ω (Repurposed incomplete Sv-52 with conventional engines) Generation 1 - "First Generation" The defining traits of this generation are the adoption of Overtechnology, including thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, laser weaponry, energy converting armor, etc. in a production variable fighter. Sv-52 VF-1 Valkyrie VF-X-2 Generation 1.5 - "Upgraded First Generation" First Generation designs upgraded with Second Generation hardware drawn from the VF-4. Sv-51 Replica (Macross 30) VF-0 Phoenix Replica (Macross 30) VF-1 Valkyrie Plus (Blocks 6 and later, incl. VF-1X) VF-1P Freyja Valkyrie VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus VF-1C Civilian Valkyrie VF-1EX Valkyrie EX VF-3000S Crusader VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie Generation 2 - "Specialization for Emigrant Fleets" The hallmarks of the Second Generation designs include the adoption of Zentradi overtechnology, refinements for regime-optimized performance in either atmosphere or space, "lessons learned" from the First Space War, and optionally the adoption of particle beam weaponry. Most were intended for use by emigrant fleets, with low cost, simplified manufacturing, and parts-sharing. VF-X-3 VF-4 Lightning III VF-3000S Crusader VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie VF-5000 Star Mirage VF-5 VF-6 VF-7 VF-9 Cutlass VF-X-10 V-BR-2 VA-X-3 VB-4 VB-5 Generation 2.5 - "Upgraded Second Generation" Second Generation VFs that were modernized to keep them in service alongside Third Generation VFs. VF-4G Lightning III VF-5000G Star Mirage VF-9E Cutlass Generation 3 - "Project Nova and Diversification" The Third Generation VFs are defined chiefly by the Project Nova design contest that decided the generation's main variable fighter as a true all-purpose successor to the VF-1 Valkyrie, but also by the continuing diversification of variable craft design into dedicated Attacker and Bomber roles. VF-11 Thunderbolt VF-14 Vampire VF-15 VF-17[A-C] Nightmare VA-14 VAB-2 VA-3 Invader VBP-1/VA-110 Variable Glaug VB-6 König Monster Generation 3.5 - "Upgraded Third Generation" Third Generation VFs that've been modernized or upgraded with technology drawn from Fourth Generation VFs to keep them viable or evaluate technologies meant for Fourth Generation implementation. VF-11MAXL Thunderbolt VF-11C Thunderbolt Interceptor VF-16 VF-17[D-T] Nightmare XVF-19 (a modified VF-11) Fz-109 Elgersoln Az-130 Panzersoln FBz-99 Zaubergern Generation 4 - "Project Super Nova: the Advanced Variable Fighter" The Fourth Generation's distinctive design traits are among the best known in Macross. The adoption of the next-gen ARIEL airframe control AI, thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines, fighter-scale pinpoint barrier systems, and native compatibility for fold boosters. This generation was largely defined by Project Super Nova, the ultimately futile contest between the YF-19 and YF-21 at Eden's New Edwards Test Flight Center. The insurmountable technological and performance complications of the two designs led to a third design, the VF-171, becoming this generation's main variable fighter. VF-19 Excalibur YF-21 VF-22 Sturmvogel II VF-22 Sturmvogel II (SMS Type) VF/B-22 Jagdvogel II VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II) VB-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II) RVF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II) Sv-154 Svard Feios Valkyrie Fz-109G Elgersoln Gustav Neo Glaug (Macross Plus Game Edition unmanned version) VBP-1/VA-110 Neo Glaug bis (Macross R/Macross F novel version) Generation 4.5 - "Upgraded Fourth Generation" The Generation 4.5 designs are few, and consist mostly of VF designs that were either upgraded to evaluate tech for eventual adoption by Generation 5 designs, or ones that were upgraded in extremis to make them more effective in combat against the Vajra. VF-19ACTIVE Nothung VF-19EF Caliburn RVF-19EF Caliburn VF-19EF/A Excalibur ADVANCE VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Manfred" VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Ushio Todo Custom" VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Block III and IIIF) VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX Thrones Custom (Macross E version) RVF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX Queadluun Alma Generation 5 - "Project Evolution and Decentralized Development" The Fifth Generation of Variable Fighters started development as a response to the disastrous first contact with the insectoid alien race known as the Vajra. Existing VF designs proved utterly inadequate to rival the performance of Vajra drones, and new programs were launched to develop countermeasures for the high-g forces and other major problems with the newly finalized Fourth Generation. The design hallmarks of Fifth Generation Variable Fighters include the adoption of Inertia Store Converter technology to insulate the cockpit against high g-forces, Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, contactless Linear Actuator technology for transformation, the ARIEL II airframe control AI, Extender Gear (EX-Gear) user interfaces, Advanced Energy Conversion Armor (ASWAG), and heavy quantum beam weaponry. YF-24 YF-24 Evolution VF-24 YF-25 Prophecy VF-25 Messiah YF-26 YF-27 Shahar VF-27 Lucifer YF-28 VF-31 Kairos Queadluun Alma Generation 5.5 - "Upgraded Fifth Generation" The precise criteria for the Sixth Generation of Variable Fighters are still somewhat unclear in the absence of a true production Sixth Generation Variable Fighter. Materials from Macross Delta and its movie Absolute Live!!!!!! have offered some clues as to the defining features of the Sixth Generation that reframe several Macross Frontier-era designs as experimental or prototype Sixth Gen VF designs and offered some additional clarity for the intermediate Generation 5.5 designs. The foundational feature of the Sixth Generation is fold wave resonance technologies based on fold quartz which are used to boost the performance of systems that use fold waves natively (e.g. thermonuclear reactors, dimensional beam weapons) and to supplement a Variable Fighter's energy supply by extracting energy directly from higher-dimension space. Fifth Generation designs retrofitted with these technologies or scaled-down versions of these technologies are tentatively (or officially) now classified as Generation 5.5 designs. VF-31 Siegfried (Xaos Valkyrie Works custom) VF-31AX Kairos Plus Sv-262 Draken III Sv-300 Sv-301 Sv-302 Sv-303 Vivasvat Generation 6 - "Fold Waves for All" Until recently, there was no concrete information about the Sixth Generation of Variable Fighters other than its hypothetical existence based on one design being officially classified as a 5.5th Gen custom variable fighter. Materials published for the movie Absolute Live!!!!!! have offered more clarity on the matter and reassigned several Frontier-era VF designs that were previously treated as Fifth Generation "super prototypes" as Sixth Generation experimental or prototype Variable Fighters. Their key design feature is the adoption of fold quartz-based fold wave resonance technology that operates synergistically with systems that use fold waves natively like thermonuclear reactors, inertia store converters, dimensional beam weapons and the like to improve performance to a level beyond what is achievable with fold carbon or without fold wave resonance effects. Other new technologies suggested to be a part of the Sixth Generation requirements are the adoption of layered energy conversion armor as a material for the VF's structural frame, Ghost "parasite aircraft" wingmen, and next generation energy conversion armor, active stealth, and communication technology that uses fold waves in place of electromagnetic waves and allows the entire aircraft skin to function as a composite sensor. YF-28 YF-29 Durandal YF-29B Perceval YF-29C (Earth NUNS trial production version) YF-30 Chronos YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Version) VF-31AX Kairos Plus VF-31X (Experimental 6th Generation VF) Sv-303 Vivasvat Thanks for posting this Seto!! Saving a copy for my personal files... Quote
TG Remix Posted February 12 Posted February 12 17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Ended up fielding a bunch of different questions about the subject of VF generations last night on Discord and Facebook, so I figured I'd update this listing of mine with the latest information since I haven't touched it since December 2021. 😅 (cont.)... This list can tell a lot about the development of Valks throughout the timeline, it's kinda fun to see what were the priorities they were built under at the time. Wish we knew about the Second-Generation fighters, they seem the most diverse period out of everyone. Though with the bomber version of the VF-3000, I'm wondering if that actually went though some form of mass production since the regular one (VF-3000S) was too oversied for its mechanics, and development went to other variable fighters instead. Think I'm learning about some Valkyries that I never knew about or passed my sights here too! I'm familiar with the VF-16 being the one where the VF-11MAX got its engines, but what significance in-universe does the VF-15 have? And what about the Elgersoln Gustav? The only other faction aside from the Varauta/Protodevlin that uses those would be Fasces. Would those be their custom/modified variants? Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 12 Posted February 12 3 hours ago, TG Remix said: Think I'm learning about some Valkyries that I never knew about or passed my sights here too! I'm familiar with the VF-16 being the one where the VF-11MAX got its engines, but what significance in-universe does the VF-15 have? The VF-15 is one of those designs that's only mentioned in passing and with almost no detail. It's only noted trait is that it was the first VF to incorporate a biological anti-g system. Its pilot seat can use lasers, infrared, and electromagnetic pulses to manipulate the pilot's metabolism to compensate for the stress of high g-forces. 3 hours ago, TG Remix said: And what about the Elgersoln Gustav? The only other faction aside from the Varauta/Protodevlin that uses those would be Fasces. Would those be their custom/modified variants? The Fz-109G Elgersoln Gustav is a reproduction of the Fz-109 Elgersoln used by the anti-government group Fasces in Macross the Ride. It's said to have performance comparable to the VF-171 and have been built at the same factory satellite that supplied the Varauta forces prior to Macross 7. Quote
Gendo Koun Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Wow, I wish to see a picture of YF-26 and YF-28 Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 13 Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, Gendo Koun said: Wow, I wish to see a picture of YF-26 and YF-28 Unfortunately, there is currently no art for either of them. The YF-26 is only mentioned in passing in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah as the third of three competing prototype 5th Generation main VFs that was produced under the "Project Triangler" codevelopment project between the Macross Frontier, Macross Olympia, and Macross Galaxy fleets. Each fleet used the YF-24 Evolution as a starting point and developed their own prototype based on a mixture of the fleet's proprietary technology and shared technology. The idea was that the winning design would become the Next Main Fighter of all three fleets. Macross Frontier produced the YF-25, Macross Olympia produced the YF-26, and Macross Galaxy produced the YF-27. Macross Olympia's YF-26 dropped out of the competition relatively early, and the Master File does not include any pictures of it. (The winning design was ultimately Macross Frontier's YF-25, though since Macross Galaxy didn't participate in good faith it was only Macross Olympia that joined Macross Frontier as the earliest adopters of the VF-25.) Whether there is a YF-28 at all is unclear. Much like the YF-26, the YF-28 is mentioned only in passing and in one book. In this case, the sixth chapter of Macross the Ride. In the scene in question, representatives of Macross Galaxy are mulling over the demonstrated performance of the YF-25 Prophecy and comparing it to the data leaked to them by LAI that they were using to complete the VF-27 and hypothesize (correctly) that there must be another model of fighter under active development in the Frontier fleet besides the YF-25. Quote
Sildani Posted February 14 Posted February 14 The VF-1 Super Parts use a polymer putty for fuel? That’s a first for me. Wonder how it gets pumped into the reaction chamber. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 14 Posted February 14 5 minutes ago, Sildani said: The VF-1 Super Parts use a polymer putty for fuel? That’s a first for me. Wonder how it gets pumped into the reaction chamber. The booster rockets built into the Super Pack do. The conformal fuel tanks that are used to supplement the internal tanks feeding the VF-1's thermonuclear reaction engines and its verniers are carrying hydrogen slush. The NP-BP-01 booster packs contain a hybrid rocket motor that uses a solid fuel and a liquid oxidizer... in this case, liquid oxygen and the aforementioned overtechnology-derived polymer solid fuel that's said to have the consistency of putty or clay. Quote
TG Remix Posted February 14 Posted February 14 On 2/12/2024 at 1:48 PM, Seto Kaiba said: The VF-15 is one of those designs that's only mentioned in passing and with almost no detail. It's only noted trait is that it was the first VF to incorporate a biological anti-g system. Its pilot seat can use lasers, infrared, and electromagnetic pulses to manipulate the pilot's metabolism to compensate for the stress of high g-forces. So kind of a precursor of the concept the EX-Gear finalized for the entire 5th generation Valkyries? On 2/12/2024 at 1:48 PM, Seto Kaiba said: The Fz-109G Elgersoln Gustav is a reproduction of the Fz-109 Elgersoln used by the anti-government group Fasces in Macross the Ride. It's said to have performance comparable to the VF-171 and have been built at the same factory satellite that supplied the Varauta forces prior to Macross 7. Considering how even in 7 they were leagues above the VF-11 despite their base machine being from the same generation I can see the Gustav being comparable to a 4th gen fighter. Does make me wonder what modifications made the originals more effective than the stock VF-14. On 2/13/2024 at 1:21 PM, Seto Kaiba said: (The winning design was ultimately Macross Frontier's YF-25, though since Macross Galaxy didn't participate in good faith it was only Macross Olympia that joined Macross Frontier as the earliest adopters of the VF-25.) Even if they were I don't think the Galaxy fleet could adopt the VF-25 anyways, lol. On 2/13/2024 at 1:21 PM, Seto Kaiba said: Whether there is a YF-28 at all is unclear. Much like the YF-26, the YF-28 is mentioned only in passing and in one book. In this case, the sixth chapter of Macross the Ride. In the scene in question, representatives of Macross Galaxy are mulling over the demonstrated performance of the YF-25 Prophecy and comparing it to the data leaked to them by LAI that they were using to complete the VF-27 and hypothesize (correctly) that there must be another model of fighter under active development in the Frontier fleet besides the YF-25. The more I hear about the Ride the more I'm wondering how come there hasn't been a translation of it, especially since from what I saw it had a bunch of coverage on fan sites here and there. Quote
azrael Posted February 14 Posted February 14 39 minutes ago, TG Remix said: So kind of a precursor of the concept the EX-Gear finalized for the entire 5th generation Valkyries? No. EX-Gears' g-proof seat acts more mechanical by flexing and bending the seat as the aircraft experiences more Gs. It doesn't really do much to keep the pilot from blacking out in high-G situations. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 14 Posted February 14 2 hours ago, TG Remix said: So kind of a precursor of the concept the EX-Gear finalized for the entire 5th generation Valkyries? Nah, more an early and alternative take on solving the g-force problem that was already starting to rear its head with the likes of the Gen 3.5 VF-16 and VF-17D/S/T. The VF-19 went with a movable seat that could change its position within the cockpit in order to mitigate some lateral g-forces and so on. The VF-22 went with the Quimeliquola special Inertia Vector Control System that has the side effect of shielding the cockpit from high g-forces. EX-Gear is more like the love child of a powered suit and the movable seat from the VF-19. 2 hours ago, TG Remix said: The more I hear about the Ride the more I'm wondering how come there hasn't been a translation of it, especially since from what I saw it had a bunch of coverage on fan sites here and there. Well... it's not licensed, there aren't that many fan translators working on Macross stuff, and those of us who are working on it are doing it pro bono in our free time. Gotta balance that stuff with our day jobs and families and whatnot, y'know? My output went to hell in the last few years because I've been working 70 and 80 hour weeks at my day job, and am only starting to get back to something like work-life balance. (So much so that I moved more than a year ago and still haven't finished unpacking.) Of course, we all also have our particular mediums and areas of interest too. The one person I know who's paid particular attention to the light novels is Gubaba, who unfortunately is no longer able to participate in this community. He's mostly done older stuff, IIRC, like DYRL? and Macross II's novelizations and short stories from the time of the original series. Quote
Gendo Koun Posted February 14 Posted February 14 On 2/14/2024 at 1:21 AM, Seto Kaiba said: Unfortunately, there is currently no art for either of them. The YF-26 is only mentioned in passing in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah as the third of three competing prototype 5th Generation main VFs that was produced under the "Project Triangler" codevelopment project between the Macross Frontier, Macross Olympia, and Macross Galaxy fleets. Each fleet used the YF-24 Evolution as a starting point and developed their own prototype based on a mixture of the fleet's proprietary technology and shared technology. The idea was that the winning design would become the Next Main Fighter of all three fleets. Macross Frontier produced the YF-25, Macross Olympia produced the YF-26, and Macross Galaxy produced the YF-27. Macross Olympia's YF-26 dropped out of the competition relatively early, and the Master File does not include any pictures of it. (The winning design was ultimately Macross Frontier's YF-25, though since Macross Galaxy didn't participate in good faith it was only Macross Olympia that joined Macross Frontier as the earliest adopters of the VF-25.) Whether there is a YF-28 at all is unclear. Much like the YF-26, the YF-28 is mentioned only in passing and in one book. In this case, the sixth chapter of Macross the Ride. In the scene in question, representatives of Macross Galaxy are mulling over the demonstrated performance of the YF-25 Prophecy and comparing it to the data leaked to them by LAI that they were using to complete the VF-27 and hypothesize (correctly) that there must be another model of fighter under active development in the Frontier fleet besides the YF-25. Thank you for your clarification and also all the quotes from books are being very helpful to see the whole Macross VF's R&D works Quote
pengbuzz Posted February 15 Posted February 15 5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Of course, we all also have our particular mediums and areas of interest too. The one person I know who's paid particular attention to the light novels is Gubaba, who unfortunately is no longer able to participate in this community. He's mostly done older stuff, IIRC, like DYRL? and Macross II's novelizations and short stories from the time of the original series. If you don't mind my asking, what happened to Gubaba? Quote
TG Remix Posted February 15 Posted February 15 14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Nah, more an early and alternative take on solving the g-force problem that was already starting to rear its head with the likes of the Gen 3.5 VF-16 and VF-17D/S/T. The VF-19 went with a movable seat that could change its position within the cockpit in order to mitigate some lateral g-forces and so on. The VF-22 went with the Quimeliquola special Inertia Vector Control System that has the side effect of shielding the cockpit from high g-forces. EX-Gear is more like the love child of a powered suit and the movable seat from the VF-19. So I'm assuming the VF-15's method in-universe was either not as effective or economic as the ones we're familiar with. 9 hours ago, pengbuzz said: If you don't mind my asking, what happened to Gubaba? I've read through his blog a lot, basically his farewell post had him say he's gonna step down from the "spotlight," for lack of better paraphrasing, since there's been more voices for Macross, and wanted to let them (and Big West) do their thing. He's still active in fact, on another blog doing rewatches of other series like Srungle and Southern Cross. Quote
TG Remix Posted February 15 Posted February 15 Excuse me for the late posting, but I'm sort of wondering since the Queadluun Alma and Neo Glaug lineage is on the generation list, I wonder if other Zentradi craft could be compared by generations as well. Ignoring how the majority of them were made hundreds of thousands of years before even the first VF-0 plan was drafted, I do know how the Plus Battlesuit is compared to the VF-11, the Queadluun Rhea starting from 2040 had upgrades to gradually have them match the VF-25 in a dogfight (and to a lesser extent the Delta Regult models for efficiency and survivability,) and how all of the battlepods and Feios Valkyrie in VF-X were designed with active stealth like the contemporary 4th generation designs. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 15 Posted February 15 11 hours ago, pengbuzz said: If you don't mind my asking, what happened to Gubaba? Some years ago, the MacrossWorld admins decided to clean up the community's image a bit and instituted harsher rules regarding the maintenance of civil conduct. So a number of long-time members who'd often gotten involved in heated discussions over one thing or another in years past - something I was no stranger to myself - were on thin ice going forward. You could say the ice gave out unexpectedly. It's a shame, really. We didn't get along back in the day, but once we met in person at SDCon and a mutual friend insisted we bury the proverbial hatchet I found him to be quite a pleasant fellow and of course he's very knowledgeable about Macross and vintage mecha anime. 2 hours ago, TG Remix said: So I'm assuming the VF-15's method in-universe was either not as effective or economic as the ones we're familiar with. As far as I know, the technology is never mentioned again... so either it didn't work as well as expected, or Shinsei and General Galaxy found something more effective by the time of the VF-19 and VF-22. 1 hour ago, TG Remix said: Excuse me for the late posting, [...] No excusing is necessary! This thread is for questions and wonderings and musings and so on. 😁 1 hour ago, TG Remix said: but I'm sort of wondering since the Queadluun Alma and Neo Glaug lineage is on the generation list, I wonder if other Zentradi craft could be compared by generations as well. Ignoring how the majority of them were made hundreds of thousands of years before even the first VF-0 plan was drafted, I do know how the Plus Battlesuit is compared to the VF-11, the Queadluun Rhea starting from 2040 had upgrades to gradually have them match the VF-25 in a dogfight (and to a lesser extent the Delta Regult models for efficiency and survivability,) and how all of the battlepods and Feios Valkyrie in VF-X were designed with active stealth like the contemporary 4th generation designs. So... the reason that a few of the rebel Zentradi weapons appear on this chart and the simpler one in Macross Chronicle is that those specific models are derived from the New UN Government's Variable Fighter technology and are Variable Fighters themselves. The Variable Glaug and Feios Valkyrie are based on a stolen VF-4 and VF-11 respectively. Others like the Neo Glaug, Neo Glaug bis, and Queadluun-Alma are based on those designs. With respect to the technology used by the Zentradi forces themselves, there are a few remarks here and there that indicate that specific models of battle pod and battle suit were the latest models in their respective design series when the Protoculture's civilization collapsed. No guidance is given about what may have come before those designs. Whether the New UN Government has some classification system for reproductions of Zentradi mecha we do not know. There is a clear statement that there have been several sequential models of Queadluun-Rhea with the latest being the Rhea/56, but because Zentradi technology has been basically stable for 500,000+ years it's unknown if Humanity's finessing would be grouped into generations since the basic design isn't changing. (It's especially difficult to argue it based on the Queadluun-Rhea, since the Queadluun-series battle suits were known for their excessively high mobility and most of what we know General Galaxy did in terms of improvements was survivability focused or intended to support VF-like operations rather than improvements to their already impressive maneuverability and acceleration.) Quote
aurance Posted February 28 Posted February 28 So, from an in-universe historical perspective (say, if in MacFrontier they showed a photo if it), would the SDF-1 as it takes off from Earth look like the DYRL version with Daedalus/Prometheus attached to it instead of ARMDs? Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 28 Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, aurance said: So, from an in-universe historical perspective (say, if in MacFrontier they showed a photo if it), would the SDF-1 as it takes off from Earth look like the DYRL version with Daedalus/Prometheus attached to it instead of ARMDs? So... that's one of those areas where the lines blur a bit because of Macross's broad strokes approach to in-universe history. The explanation that's been on the books since ~1994 is similar to the ones offered for the VF-1 Valkyrie, Exsedol, etc. in that both versions are "true" and reflect its appearance at different points in in-universe time. Namely, that the TV version is what the ship looked like prior to Quamzin's suicide attack in January 2012 and that the Movie version is what it looked like after being repaired with postwar technology from January to August 2012. Now, that's what the books say... But, of course, actual in-story depictions are not as consistent. We essentially have three different versions of the Macross in play at any given time. The TV version, the Movie version, and the Novel/Manga version that is a Movie version with the Daedalus and Prometheus instead of ARMDs. It's not uncommon for shows to use the DYRL? versions of events when glossing over the First Space War, though we also see weird mix-and-match moments like Macross Delta showing a DYRL?-styled Macross lifting off without any attached ships like the TV version did alongside a character having a TV version Macross model on his desk. If you wanted to get Watsonian about it, it could be argued that people like Berger Stone are using footage from in-universe historical dramas without worrying about total historical accuracy. The Doylist view would be that the creators just think the movie version looks better. Quote
TG Remix Posted February 28 Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said: If you wanted to get Watsonian about it, it could be argued that people like Berger Stone are using footage from in-universe historical dramas without worrying about total historical accuracy. The Doylist view would be that the creators just think the movie version looks better. Most SDF retellings/flashbacks/callbacks/etc, pretty much use the DYRL? designs because in that Doylist perspective, they're probably the more "updated" designs compared to the TV series with a hilariously strained budget. Honestly seeing designs from the TV series like in 7 and Delta catches me off guard when it happens. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 29 Posted February 29 1 hour ago, aurance said: Schroedinger's Ship Pretty much. It's a borderline coin flip which version will end up getting used when any given scene calls for showing the original SDF-1 Macross. The same as many other designs from the first series and movie. Quote
TG Remix Posted March 1 Posted March 1 (edited) On the risk of sounding like a broken record, I was thinking about Kawamori's notion of how some of the surviving Zentradi ships became colony vessels a bit more. From the Otana interview, there weren't any specifics in that regard except that they could be just made up of Zentradi. I'm trying to find where someone said that those ships were put into short-range fleets because they can't make longer trips, although with 7 and Delta showing Zentradi ships within either far-fledged colony fleets or planets I wonder how much that holds under scrutiny. Maybe like the SDFN class, they could've also been used to secure routes for other emigrant fleets since I think the allied Zentradi played a part in the early stages of the Mankind Seeding Plan with their already existing maps of the galaxy. And to get a bit more specific, what would you guys think would be the Zentradi ship classes that'd be best fitted as these Emigrant ships? My safest bets would be the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class for their sheer size (and I believe some of if not the biggest ships the NUNS have under their control) and the Quiltra Queleual LST for the internal volume and how much it'd carry. Edited March 1 by TG Remix Quote
sketchley Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) 12 hours ago, TG Remix said: I'm trying to find where someone said that those ships were put into short-range fleets because they can't make longer trips, although with 7 and Delta showing Zentradi ships within either far-fledged colony fleets or planets I wonder how much that holds under scrutiny. Maybe like the SDFN class, they could've also been used to secure routes for other emigrant fleets since I think the allied Zentradi played a part in the early stages of the Mankind Seeding Plan with their already existing maps of the galaxy. Nothing comes to mind about the Zentradi ships being unable to make longer trips. Perhaps that stems from a convolution of 'not being able to make comparatively longish individual space folds' and 'not being that fast when making a space fold' (the apparently speedest ship is the Varota High Speed Raiding Cruiser). It makes perfect sense that the surviving (captured) Zentradi ships would be used to secure routes, as well as play a role in escorting the emigrant fleets. 12 hours ago, TG Remix said: And to get a bit more specific, what would you guys think would be the Zentradi ship classes that'd be best fitted as these Emigrant ships? My safest bets would be the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class for their sheer size (and I believe some of if not the biggest ships the NUNS have under their control) and the Quiltra Queleual LST for the internal volume and how much it'd carry. One thing to keep in mind is that despite their size to us humans, the Zentradi ships aren't that large for the giant Zentradi. As you pointed out, it's only the largest that would work as Emigrant ships. Multiple Buritai's ships appeared in an escort fleet in Macross 7 (official). Battleships Of The Galaxy Book 3: Zentrādi Military Vessels doesn't elaborate on an emigrant ship version of that class. However, it does provide an alternative "Environment Ship" specification of the Landing Ship. I've translated that doujinshi's description here (not official): http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/LandingShip.php#Environment Even though it's not part of the official setting, it does raise the possibility that a refurbished Kirutora Keruēru could be used as the main ship in a smaller Emigrant Fleet. Edited March 2 by sketchley Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted March 2 Posted March 2 3 hours ago, TG Remix said: On the risk of sounding like a broken record, I was thinking about Kawamori's notion of how some of the surviving Zentradi ships became colony vessels a bit more. From the Otana interview, there weren't any specifics in that regard except that they could be just made up of Zentradi. I'm trying to find where someone said that those ships were put into short-range fleets because they can't make longer trips, although with 7 and Delta showing Zentradi ships within either far-fledged colony fleets or planets I wonder how much that holds under scrutiny. TBH, I don't recall anything about Zentradi ships being used for short distance emigrant fleets because of range limitations. That wouldn't really track, since the Zentradi have been roaming far and wide across the entire galaxy for millennia. My understanding was that Zentradi ships were used for those operations because that's what was on hand and operational at the time those missions started. Though they definitely weren't all Zentradi crews though, given that Eden has a pretty substantial human population and it was that program's first success. 3 hours ago, TG Remix said: And to get a bit more specific, what would you guys think would be the Zentradi ship classes that'd be best fitted as these Emigrant ships? My safest bets would be the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class for their sheer size (and I believe some of if not the biggest ships the NUNS have under their control) and the Quiltra Queleual LST for the internal volume and how much it'd carry. Honestly? Any of 'em. It's easy to forget because we don't often see them next to familiar objects of easily conceptualized size, but even the smallest Zentraid ships are freaking gigantic by the standards of Humans. The Zentradi fleet picket - the tiniest regular warship they have - is significantly larger than a Nimitz-class supercarrier (500m vs. 333m). The regular combatant classes are all even larger than the Macross-class, humanity's largest warship by a sizable margin at the time, and there's a LOT of empty space to play with there. Quote
TG Remix Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) 13 hours ago, sketchley said: Nothing comes to mind about the Zentradi ships being unable to make longer trips. Perhaps that stems from a convolution of 'not being able to make comparatively longish individual space folds' and 'not being that fast when making a space fold' (the apparently speedest ship is the Varota High Speed Raiding Cruiser). That makes more sense; in the show when Britai's ship folded to the Main Fleet it seemed like it took a long while to fold jump there, probably doing more than one at a time. 13 hours ago, sketchley said: Multiple Buritai's ships appeared in an escort fleet in Macross 7 (official). Battleships Of The Galaxy Book 3: Zentrādi Military Vessels doesn't elaborate on an emigrant ship version of that class. Considering there were multiple of those and the population of the Macross 5 fleet in total being 300,000 I'm starting to wonder if all of them were micloned.... 13 hours ago, sketchley said: However, it does provide an alternative "Environment Ship" specification of the Landing Ship. I've translated that doujinshi's description here (not official): http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/LandingShip.php#Environment Even though it's not part of the official setting, it does raise the possibility that a refurbished Kirutora Keruēru could be used as the main ship in a smaller Emigrant Fleet. That book with the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs is weird to me because they never really acknowledge the actual official UN conversions it had. The book also apparently had a Thuverl-Salan Battleship converted into an Environment Ship as well. I couldn't find any text or translations of it but it was uploaded on Katsumi's Pixiv: https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/102319454 Not the smallest ship but considering how they were the workhorses of the Main fleet I can imagine that they'd find all kinds of uses for the UN. 13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Though they definitely weren't all Zentradi crews though, given that Eden has a pretty substantial human population and it was that program's first success. I would imagine there'd be a mix of giant and miclone crew as we saw on Britai's ship in the timeskip, probably the standard for UN Zentradi battleships from my few cents. On the topic of Eden, it feels like the UN won the lottery if the first planet they migrated to was a Class A habitable one. Though considering how rare those are according to Macross Chronicle, and rougher ones are used for agricultural and industrial purposes (thus building Anti-UN sentiments,) I wonder what would be the standard colony planets would be, since those aren't really focused on at all. 13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: It's easy to forget because we don't often see them next to familiar objects of easily conceptualized size, but even the smallest Zentraid ships are freaking gigantic by the standards of Humans. Considering the Macross Class and Megaroad Class were described to be city ships and combat ships, they probably still would have room to keep most if not all of their combat capabilities and still hold tens of thousands of people with no issue as well. No wonder in older material Britia's ship was designated SDF-3 at one point. 13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: The Zentradi fleet picket - the tiniest regular warship they have - is significantly larger than a Nimitz-class supercarrier (500m vs. 333m). The regular combatant classes are all even larger than the Macross-class, humanity's largest warship by a sizable margin at the time, and there's a LOT of empty space to play with there. Only (standard) non-Macross class UN military ship we know of that's bigger than the picket funny enough is the Uraga, being 550 meters. Honestly considering how the only UN built ship the Macross 5 fleet was only the stealth frigate the three Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis was probably all they need Edited March 2 by TG Remix Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted March 2 Posted March 2 4 hours ago, TG Remix said: That makes more sense; in the show when Britai's ship folded to the Main Fleet it seemed like it took a long while to fold jump there, probably doing more than one at a time. TBH, there are still some problems with that explanation too... mainly involving remarks about Earth's domestically-produced fold technology not being very good until some time after the First Space War. Zentradi ships were probably faster and more reliable, and we know they were definitely more available in the immediate aftermath of the war. 4 hours ago, TG Remix said: Considering there were multiple of those and the population of the Macross 5 fleet in total being 300,000 I'm starting to wonder if all of them were micloned.... Considering the infrastructure of those middle-generation fleets, it's unlikely that there were any giant Zentradi outside of the crews of those few remodeled Zentradi ships. 4 hours ago, TG Remix said: That book with the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs is weird to me because they never really acknowledge the actual official UN conversions it had. Well, it IS a doujinshi... the author's own personal interest. 4 hours ago, TG Remix said: Considering the Macross Class and Megaroad Class were described to be city ships and combat ships, they probably still would have room to keep most if not all of their combat capabilities and still hold tens of thousands of people with no issue as well. No wonder in older material Britia's ship was designated SDF-3 at one point. The Macross-class was a less than optimal environment for maintaining a civilian settlement as originally designed, and the Megaroad-class was pretty much all envirionment ship with virtually no offensive or defensive ability... that's why later generations opted to keep those two roles separate as much as possible with the 3rd Generation City-class and the later Mainland-class and Island Cluster-class. Generally speaking, the last thing you want is someone shooting at the ship carrying tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians... so whether it's armed or not is less important than its ability to stay out of trouble in the first place. 4 hours ago, TG Remix said: Only (standard) non-Macross class UN military ship we know of that's bigger than the picket funny enough is the Uraga, being 550 meters. Honestly considering how the only UN built ship the Macross 5 fleet was only the stealth frigate the three Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis was probably all they need To clarify, the Zentradi-styled Northampton-class is the only fleet-specific variant featured... that doesn't mean it was the only Earth-designed escort ship in the fleet. Just the only one that merited separate coverage. Given that the fleet uses large numbers of VFs, they almost certainly have Uraga-class and Guantanamo-class carriers too. Quote
sketchley Posted March 3 Posted March 3 9 hours ago, TG Remix said: That book with the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs is weird to me because they never really acknowledge the actual official UN conversions it had. The book also apparently had a Thuverl-Salan Battleship converted into an Environment Ship as well. I couldn't find any text or translations of it but it was uploaded on Katsumi's Pixiv: https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/102319454 Hmmm... I don't recall seeing the Battleship Environment Ship conversion in those doujinshi. Maybe it was added for the Pixiv version? Nevertheless, I'll look through them again. If memory serves, the UN converted Nupetiet Vergnitzs does appear, but only in silhouette, only in passing, and its in one of the magazines dedicated to the UN Spacy. Quote
TG Remix Posted March 3 Posted March 3 8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: The Macross-class was a less than optimal environment for maintaining a civilian settlement as originally designed, and the Megaroad-class was pretty much all envirionment ship with virtually no offensive or defensive ability... that's why later generations opted to keep those two roles separate as much as possible with the 3rd Generation City-class and the later Mainland-class and Island Cluster-class. Generally speaking, the last thing you want is someone shooting at the ship carrying tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians... so whether it's armed or not is less important than its ability to stay out of trouble in the first place. It makes the SDFN-class all the weirder for existing, wouldn't it? Considering it's a class built from a modified ship that was a massive improv on all fronts and still has a sizable civilian convoy of ~7000. Though I suppose it's an outlier with a very specific role, it is noticeably more offensive than a Megaroad or the Island Class by a longshot. 3 hours ago, sketchley said: Hmmm... I don't recall seeing the Battleship Environment Ship conversion in those doujinshi. Maybe it was added for the Pixiv version? The account also interestingly has two NUNS modified versions of the Medium Sized Gun Destroyer; a typical version and a more recent 2060 one. Not sure the specific details, but I could imagine instead of just modified ships there would be new Zentradi hulls built afterwards for their proven reliability Quote
sketchley Posted March 3 Posted March 3 (edited) 42 minutes ago, TG Remix said: The account also interestingly has two NUNS modified versions of the Medium Sized Gun Destroyer; a typical version and a more recent 2060 one. Not sure the specific details, but I could imagine instead of just modified ships there would be new Zentradi hulls built afterwards for their proven reliability I've just looked through all four books in that doujinshi series, and the Environment Battleship doesn't appear. There are 4 versions of the Medium Sized Gun Destroyer in the publication. I've translated the text for the 'standard' version, and bits of the two UNS versions on my site* (I'm not bothering with the no-main gun 'standard' version for obvious reasons...). Only the first UNS version has any dates mentioned in its write-up (produced from 2010~2030, with 32 produced in total). The second UNS version doesn't have any dates or total numbers at all—perhaps it's the 2060 version mentioned on the Pixiv account? They are both apparently newly built for the UNS. The UNS modifed version of Buritai's ship appears in silhouette at the back of the Zentradi book (along with Macross II's Macross Cannon!) in an article titled 統合政府で計画または建造されたゼントラーディ軍系の艦艇 (Zentraedi military vessels planned or built by the Unified Government). It's description is brief, but the gist of it is: newly built ships, 1/10 the weight of the original version, uses standardized UNS equipment, improved firepower, mobility, etc., but has weaker armour (literally 'reduced bullet resistance'). * http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/MediumGunboat.php Edited March 3 by sketchley Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted March 3 Posted March 3 1 hour ago, TG Remix said: It makes the SDFN-class all the weirder for existing, wouldn't it? Considering it's a class built from a modified ship that was a massive improv on all fronts and still has a sizable civilian convoy of ~7000. Considering the amount of space that the SDFN had to work with, it's not that weird... the folks operating the pilot fleets scouting ahead of immigrant ships need r&r too. Keeping the populations as small as possible keeps the risk down, and those ships were used after humanity learned what the prevailing situation in space was and decided to focus on avoidance rather than confrontation. 1 hour ago, TG Remix said: Though I suppose it's an outlier with a very specific role, it is noticeably more offensive than a Megaroad or the Island Class by a longshot. If you don't count the Battle-class attached to the latter... that was very much an offensive option. 1 hour ago, TG Remix said: The account also interestingly has two NUNS modified versions of the Medium Sized Gun Destroyer; a typical version and a more recent 2060 one. Not sure the specific details, but I could imagine instead of just modified ships there would be new Zentradi hulls built afterwards for their proven reliability Yeah they have some weird perspectives on things. Quote
JB0 Posted March 3 Posted March 3 4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: If you don't count the Battle-class attached to the latter... that was very much an offensive option. In fairness, the Battle-class detaches from the Island-class for, ummm, battle. I can think of reasons this would be a good idea, were it not depicted as so easy to travel between ships(like you can literally drive a car from one to the other). Quote
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