Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Bolt]

3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Possibly.  It's not said if there are rollers or some other concession to towing it or moving it across the deck.  Given that they mention the landing gear/feet it has are mainly meant for emergency landings and parking, I'd assume there's some external mechanism or vehicle to move it onto and off of the deck.

Hmm..And , due to the large "feet" and large sensor on top, it seems (to me) unlikely that it would be deployed by a "launch arm" mechanism. Perhaps it would be better suited to an elevator to deck space launch.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

Hmm..And , due to the large "feet" and large sensor on top, it seems (to me) unlikely that it would be deployed by a "launch arm" mechanism. Perhaps it would be better suited to an elevator to deck space launch.

My assumption would be that there's more than one "end" to the launch arm, and there's some end that slips into the gap in the foot and connects to the underside of the craft to move it.

[Bolt]

55 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

My assumption would be that there's more than one "end" to the launch arm, and there's some end that slips into the gap in the foot and connects to the underside of the craft to move it.

That seems plausible.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

My assumption would be that there's more than one "end" to the launch arm, and there's some end that slips into the gap in the foot and connects to the underside of the craft to move it.

Or perhaps a type of adapter that can reconfigure itself per craft?

[Seto Kaiba]

Because it's been a rough week, I decided to take a bit of time to poke at Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31AX Kairos Plus again.

It really is interesting, and a little bizarre, how fold quartz has become a swiss army molecule to the writers of Master File.  Up to now, it's been officially used in place of fold carbon to generate fold waves and heavy quanta in gravity and inertia control systems and fold devices.  The newest Master File alleges that it has yet another use besides as a fold wave version of a radio crystal and a catalyst for producing exotic particles: it can be used to make superefficient quantum processors too.

Master File's explanation for the "ARIEL III" airframe control AI adopted by the VF-31 custom Siegfried and VF-31AX Kairos Plus is that it's essentially a version of the ARIEL II airframe control AI that's been modified to take full advantage of the significantly greater computation speed offered by fold quartz-based processing.  They say it's four orders of magnitude faster, making it essentially 10x better than the improvement gallium arsenide offers over silicon semiconductors for switching speed.  This seems to be subject to all the same issues with fold quartz scarcity that every other important system the VF-31AX has, so it's essentially unsuitable for mass production.  It's that massive leap in processing capability that lets the system get away with calling itself a next-generation control system and not an improvement of ARIEL II like the system adopted by the Sv-303 and VF-31.

Also of interest is an explanation for the VF-31 Siegfried's apparent fragility under high speed maneuvering.  Master File describes a manufacturing difference between the VF-25 and VF-31 in terms of how weight reduction and armor mounting to the frame is managed.  The VF-25 went for weight reduction by designing the airframe around molding/bonding the armor directly to the frame.  The premise was apparently that the greater material strength of the HLC-1221 would resist damage and structural stress better this way, and that when the aircraft was damaged individual cast-in-piece segments could simply be exchanged.  This apparently worked pretty well, except that the joints between the cast-in-piece parts of the aircraft suffered more from fatigue during high-g maneuvering.  The VF-31 used the same frame and armor materials, but went for an easier-to-repair method of simply riveting armor to the structural frame at the expense of slightly increasing the total weight.  This ended up causing unintended problems when it was combined with a design change to the ISC on the VF-31 Siegfried.  The Siegfried's ISC function was expanded to protect the entire airframe instead of just the cockpit in the hope that it would reduce fatigue.  It ended up having the opposite effect because the ISC's discharge behavior was altered from a continuous slow discharge to a periodic discharge when the g-load dropped below a threshold.  This resulted in the unintended behavior where the ISC was both less effective and actually applying torque to the airframe in multiple directions during its intermittent discharge cycles, increasing the fatigue on the airframe as a result.  This apparently explains why Hayate's VF-31J was something of a hangar queen, needing a lot more repair because of its rough handling.

The VF-31AX apparently addressed that problem in two ways.  It went back to the VF-25's approach of using molecular bonding to attach the armor to the frame, but also adopted a reinforced frame applying a new approach to energy conversion armor technology where the material was made directionally strong.  As in, the material was made such that it could be reinforced to better resist g-forces along a single axis.  That was then layered to provide a three-dimensionally-strong reinforced frame that could better resist the torque from its rapid maneuvering and the periodic discharge of the ISC.  This new material resulted in the weight reduction we see in the VF-31AX stats.  It's noted that because this new material is only applied in a haphazard manner to the repaired VF-31 Siegfrieds, the weight distribution and balance of the resulting aircraft is poor and maintenance requirements increased.

[Seto Kaiba]

I really do have to admit I appreciate the lengths the new Master File is going to to explain how and why the Kairos Plus is a flawed and improvised weapon instead of just painting it as an amazing new design.  Yeah, it has improvements, but those improvements are either unsuitable for mass production or applied unevenly enough that the greater performance ended up being detrimental to the aircraft in many other ways.

[Bolt]

41 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I really do have to admit I appreciate the lengths the new Master File is going to to explain how and why the Kairos Plus is a flawed and improvised weapon instead of just painting it as an amazing new design.  Yeah, it has improvements, but those improvements are either unsuitable for mass production or applied unevenly enough that the greater performance ended up being detrimental to the aircraft in many other ways.

Yes indeed. The previous explanation you enlightened us to, illustrates the Kairos Plus as a bit of a Frankenstein.  

[twich]

I wonder if the next series will see the fabled VF-31X as a “standard” or “cannon fodder” unit akin to the VF-171, while the new hotness is being designed to replace it.

Twich

[JB0]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It really is interesting, and a little bizarre, how fold quartz has become a swiss army molecule to the writers of Master File. 

Minovsky quartz.

[Bolt]

5 minutes ago, twich said:

I wonder if the next series will see the fabled VF-31X as a “standard” or “cannon fodder” unit akin to the VF-171, while the new hotness is being designed to replace it.

Twich

The VF-31X still doesn't sound like it's cheap enough to mass produce. It may never be, until Fold Quartz is readily available. And if Fold Quartz is easy enough to obtain or synthesize well, at that point, the VF 31-AX will be canon fodder... I feel like they're getting a bit ahead of themselves with the latest VF's and all their fanciness. Remember, the VF-171 is probably still the main use VF for most immigrant fleets. The VF-25 is probably still the "new hotness ", en mass. But , i know they're very much in the business of selling toys and models too. 

 

12 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Minovsky quartz.

Shizuma Quartz 😜

 

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, twich said:

I wonder if the next series will see the fabled VF-31X as a “standard” or “cannon fodder” unit akin to the VF-171, while the new hotness is being designed to replace it.

Assuming the VF-31X, or whatever its actual/official designation ends up being (VF-31X was an informal one used because the VF-31 was the base design they started from) is an actual thing in-setting and not just an unofficial contrivance of Master File?

Veeeeeery unlikely.  The VF-31X proposed by Master File is an attempt to make a YF-29-esque 6th Gen VF economical and even the book about it suggests it failed miserably in that regard and became yet another unviable super prototype with a total galaxy-wide production volume in the low double digits.  I'd assume whatever the next series is will either continue flogging General Galaxy's poor old VF-171 or we'll see a point where 5th Generation VFs are the norm and the only difference between hero and fodder Valks is paintjobs like in the original series.

 

25 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Minovsky quartz.

 

11 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Shizuma Quartz 😜

Sakuradite!

[twich]

24 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Assuming the VF-31X, or whatever its actual/official designation ends up being (VF-31X was an informal one used because the VF-31 was the base design they started from) is an actual thing in-setting and not just an unofficial contrivance of Master File?

Veeeeeery unlikely.  The VF-31X proposed by Master File is an attempt to make a YF-29-esque 6th Gen VF economical and even the book about it suggests it failed miserably in that regard and became yet another unviable super prototype with a total galaxy-wide production volume in the low double digits.  I'd assume whatever the next series is will either continue flogging General Galaxy's poor old VF-171 or we'll see a point where 5th Generation VFs are the norm and the only difference between hero and fodder Valks is paintjobs like in the original series.

 

 

Sakuradite!

Sometimes in my excitement, I forget that things like the Variable Fighter Master File books are not officially cannon within the Macross Universe.  You, of course are correct.  I also forget that while the designs for the VF-24, VF-25 and VF-27 did not utilize fold quartz in their initial designs and they proved to be quite capable Variable Fighters, which is why the VF-25 was being tested as a replacement for the aging VF-171.  The fold quartz really only helped these Variable Fighters beat the Varja by upgrading their weapons to Anti-Varja MDE and power boosting beam weapons to use against the Varja.  I know that in delta, fold quartz helped to overtake the uber Protoculture mind control with the bastardized version that the VF-31 Siegfrieds used to increase performance to overcome.

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

9 minutes ago, twich said:

I also forget that while the designs for the VF-24, VF-25 and VF-27 did not utilize fold quartz in their initial designs and they proved to be quite capable Variable Fighters, which is why the VF-25 was being tested as a replacement for the aging VF-171.

All 5th Generation VFs use fold quartz, albeit quite sparingly.

It's the essential material needed to construct the core of the Inertia Store Converter that protects the pilot from their incredible maneuverability.  It's doesn't need fold quartz of an exceptional size or purity, but it does need fold quartz.

(It is possible to build an inertia capacitor with high purity fold carbon, but it's much less capable as a result.  The Queadluun series battle suits and YF-21/VF-22 have one called the Inertia Vector Control System.)

 

9 minutes ago, twich said:

The fold quartz really only helped these Variable Fighters beat the Varja by upgrading their weapons to Anti-Varja MDE and power boosting beam weapons to use against the Varja.  I know that in delta, fold quartz helped to overtake the uber Protoculture mind control with the bastardized version that the VF-31 Siegfrieds used to increase performance to overcome.

They put fold quartz to a bunch of different uses in the series... fold quartz-based fold communication systems to prevent jamming from disabling Luca's Ghosts, fold wave jamming systems and amplifiers, the prototype super fold booster, and of course the many different flavors of MDE weapons.  

Of course, the Fold Wave System and its accompanying engine mods became the most extreme application of the stuff short of the planet-killing Dimension Eater bombs.

[twich]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

All 5th Generation VFs use fold quartz, albeit quite sparingly.

It's the essential material needed to construct the core of the Inertia Store Converter that protects the pilot from their incredible maneuverability.  It's doesn't need fold quartz of an exceptional size or purity, but it does need fold quartz.

(It is possible to build an inertia capacitor with high purity fold carbon, but it's much less capable as a result.  The Queadluun series battle suits and YF-21/VF-22 have one called the Inertia Vector Control System.)

 

They put fold quartz to a bunch of different uses in the series... fold quartz-based fold communication systems to prevent jamming from disabling Luca's Ghosts, fold wave jamming systems and amplifiers, the prototype super fold booster, and of course the many different flavors of MDE weapons.  

Of course, the Fold Wave System and its accompanying engine mods became the most extreme application of the stuff short of the planet-killing Dimension Eater bombs.

yes, to clarify, the VF-24, VF-25, VF-27 do not need the same level of fold quartz as the YF-29 or even the YF-30.  I knew that the ISC required fold quartz, but my head cannon just assumed that they could acquire this through the dead bodies of regular Varja.  The same as the upgrades to the huge ass beam gun of the VF-27, that was later enhanced by fold quartz harvested from the corpses of all the dead Varja.  

I guess what I was trying to say, that these Variable fighters didn't have huge fold quartz deposits on them like the YF-29, YF-30, VF-31 Siegfried, VF-31AX Kairos Plus, SV-262 Draken III, and SV-303 have to have to function in their shown capacity.  ( I left the VF-31 Kairos off there, as far as I know, it only had the fold quartz in the ISC, and used fold carbon on those two areas next to where the head is)

That leads to the question, how did the development of the VF-24 with ISC progress if the mere knowledge of the Varja was such a guarded secret?  Did the New UN Spacy first encounter fold quartz on the excavation of old protoculture sites?  I might be missing a lot of the back story as to why Ranka's Mom was studying the Varja and how Mao Nome was also studying the Varja when their research fleet was attacked and destroyed and only Ozma, Ranka, Sheryl, Grace and Brera were left alive.

Twich

[snakerbot]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(It is possible to build an inertia capacitor with high purity fold carbon, but it's much less capable as a result.  The Queadluun series battle suits and YF-21/VF-22 have one called the Inertia Vector Control System.)

Is there any media that provides the buffer capacity of the various versions of the Inertia Vector Control System? The compendium says the one in the Queadluun-Rhea can reduce the G-load on the pilot to 18G, which would suggest it has a buffer of either 4.5 or 7G, depending on whether that means during normal or super acceleration. Anything on the ones in the Queadluun-Rau or YF-21?

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, snakerbot said:

Is there any media that provides the buffer capacity of the various versions of the Inertia Vector Control System?

The writeups of the various 5th Gen VFs typically mention it:

• Queadluun-Rau IVCS: ~4.5-7G (unclear)
• YF-24 initial ISC prototype: 2.0G
• VF-25 ISC/TO21: 27.5G
• VF-27 ISC/TO21: 27.5G
• YF-29 ISC/TO22: 30.0G
• VF-31 ISC/TO21C: 28.0G
• VF-31 Custom ISC/TO21C?: 29.5G
• Sv-262 ISC/TO21G: 30.8G
• VF-31AX ISC/TO24V: 30.0G

 

5 hours ago, snakerbot said:

The compendium says the one in the Queadluun-Rhea can reduce the G-load on the pilot to 18G, which would suggest it has a buffer of either 4.5 or 7G, depending on whether that means during normal or super acceleration. Anything on the ones in the Queadluun-Rau or YF-21?

Macross Chronicle only ever mentions a specific protective inertial neutralization capacity of the system in the Macross Frontier TV Mechanic Sheet for the Queadluun-Rhea.

Both the YF-21/VF-22 and Queadluun-Rhea are mentioned to use an improved version of the Queadluun-Rau's Inertia Vector Control System, though exactly how the system works is never properly described AFAIK.  Macross Perfect Memory describes it as an inertia control system that is used to improve the Queadluun-Rau's acceleration performance and the propellant efficiency of its engines and verniers.  Macross Chronicle describes it as related to or based on gravity control but otherwise declines to offer an explanation except to go on about how it's an essential part of the high maneuverability of the YF-21/VF-22 and Queadluun series battle suist.  Even Master File largely evades the question.  Its mentions of the IVCS are mainly related to how it impacts flight control.  It notes that the Inertia Vector Control System can control the magnitude of an acceleration vector but not its direction, amplifying or diminishing the effects verniers and control surfaces have on the aircraft's inertia.  

Based on that, it seems like protecting the pilot from g-forces is actually either a secondary function or a byproduct of its manipulating the aircraft's inertial mass somehow.

[TehPW]

On 1/23/2023 at 2:56 AM, Bolt said:

Do does the RC-4E have proper, wheeled landing gear, or does it hop around the hangar on its big bunny feet?

rabbit-lineart.gif (1400×900) (macross2.net)

 

*cracks knuckles* I got this...

Look at the the bottom left (SouthWest) pic. Its the underview sketch. The Foot struts have (each) 6 pads spaced from each other in someway equal measures. That tells me (or at least, makes me think) that the design is space-based, never meant for planetary service. No Wheels. 

*Back tracks a moment*

Before I continue, I ask this: What kind of gravity exists on the SDF-1 and its carrier-method deployed assets (SDFMTV: SDF-1 + Prometheus + Daedalous Amphibious Carriers; DYRL SDF-1 + ARMD-1 + ARMD-2). I ask this because there is less reason to have what I am thinking about, in terms of how the RC-4E is handled while inside what ever ship it is loaded into, the question of how much gravity is available (if things are normally Zero-G, then things are more likely to be man handled with cranes in order to get the item from the stow point to the launch point thus less rational

Anyway, my idea. Boggy Wheels.

UH-1H Helicopter S/N 66-17099 | www.dakotaairparts.com (dakotaairservices.com)

Look at the first pic of the Huey, at the back of the landing skid. its got, what I heard was refered to as Boggy Wheels. Its how the end user of Hueys (or other skid-using helicopters) moves the A/C while not under power. I think (assuming that gravity is a thing on where the RC-4E Rabbit is stored/maintained) that the Rabbit sits on either 4 boggy wheels or a large single/multi-piece of Support Equipment (think like two skateboards or one big pallet with imbedded wheels). That, to me, seems like the most likely method of how the Rabbit is handled, in the hangar (other than by crane)...

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, TehPW said:

Look at the the bottom left (SouthWest) pic. Its the underview sketch. The Foot struts have (each) 6 pads spaced from each other in someway equal measures. That tells me (or at least, makes me think) that the design is space-based, never meant for planetary service. No Wheels. 

Yes indeed, I've studied those images a bit. It looks very much to be a space born vessel, not really meant for much ,if any gravity.

 

2 hours ago, TehPW said:

Before I continue, I ask this: What kind of gravity exists on the SDF-1 and its carrier-method deployed assets (SDFMTV: SDF-1 + Prometheus + Daedalous Amphibious Carriers; DYRL SDF-1 + ARMD-1 + ARMD-2). I ask this because there is less reason to have what I am thinking about, in terms of how the RC-4E is handled while inside what ever ship it is loaded into, the question of how much gravity is available (if things are normally Zero-G, then things are more likely to be man handled with cranes in order to get the item from the stow point to the launch point thus less rational

So this is an important question , I've wondered myself. I think , regardless of how many different types of craft, most space carriers in the Macross universe have atmospheric hangars and service bays AND hangars and launch bays that are free of atmosphere. These vacuum hangars and launch bays would be the main use for active VF's and other craft , such as the RC-4E. For the sake of argument, i am not thinking about SDFM space/aircraft carriers, for obvious reasons. I imagine that the Rabbit coukd be lightly serviced in a vacuum environment. But for anything more thorough, it would be craned or towed into a service area which has an atmosphere. And so it got me wondering..(also I'm about to build a 1/72 kit of the dang thing!) 

 

2 hours ago, TehPW said:

Anyway, my idea. Boggy Wheels.

Something like that ,different scale and motorized, could very well be the ticket!🤔

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, TehPW said:

Before I continue, I ask this: What kind of gravity exists on the SDF-1 and its carrier-method deployed assets (SDFMTV: SDF-1 + Prometheus + Daedalous Amphibious Carriers; DYRL SDF-1 + ARMD-1 + ARMD-2). I ask this because there is less reason to have what I am thinking about, in terms of how the RC-4E is handled while inside what ever ship it is loaded into, the question of how much gravity is available (if things are normally Zero-G, then things are more likely to be man handled with cranes in order to get the item from the stow point to the launch point thus less rational

Because the gravity is artificial and precise local control is nominally possible, gravity may be neither uniform nor fixed at any given point and as we've seen in some works even what constitutes "down" may vary depending on where you happen to be standing.  This was demonstrated in the opening of Macross Frontier's first episode, when we see Sheryl and her entourage disembark a galaxy starliner in microgravity and pass into an area where the gravity is raised to 0.75G as they enter Island-1 proper.

Most, if not all, of the Macross's interior seems to be kept at normal Earth gravity of ~1.0G during normal operations but this can fluctuate a bit or fail due to damage or the Macross's transformation state.  The Prometheus, and later purpose-build space flattops like the Uraga-class and the Macross Quarter's ARMD-L use a lower intensity artificial gravity field that's projected up over the deck to assist in arrested recovery operations.  The ARMD-class and its successor designs don't seem to follow this practice, however, since they adopt a more space-friendly approach of just kicking the aircraft out the door and either letting it do its trick unassisted or using a non-contact electromagnetic catapult to provide some initial acceleration.

[Bolt]

17 hours ago, TehPW said:

Look at the the bottom left (SouthWest) pic. Its the underview sketch. The Foot struts have (each) 6 pads spaced from each other in someway equal measures.

Another thought i had, what if those pads flip around and are wheels on the other side..? A la pallet jack..anyway @TehPW I appreciate you going the extra mile , thinking about this.

[Bolt]

12 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Because the gravity is artificial and precise local control is nominally possible, gravity may be neither uniform nor fixed at any given point and as we've seen in some works even what constitutes "down" may vary depending on where you happen to be standing.  This was demonstrated in the opening of Macross Frontier's first episode, when we see Sheryl and her entourage disembark a galaxy starliner in microgravity and pass into an area where the gravity is raised to 0.75G as they enter Island-1 proper.

Most, if not all, of the Macross's interior seems to be kept at normal Earth gravity of ~1.0G during normal operations but this can fluctuate a bit or fail due to damage or the Macross's transformation state.  The Prometheus, and later purpose-build space flattops like the Uraga-class and the Macross Quarter's ARMD-L use a lower intensity artificial gravity field that's projected up over the deck to assist in arrested recovery operations.  The ARMD-class and its successor designs don't seem to follow this practice, however, since they adopt a more space-friendly approach of just kicking the aircraft out the door and either letting it do its trick unassisted or using a non-contact electromagnetic catapult to provide some initial acceleration.

I've seen line art depicting deck and hangar crew in space suits. And also hangar crew without, in all the various shows, movies  and games. And when it comes to gravity, I'm sure theres a set point for the bridge, crew quarters, etc. And  different ones set for maintenance deck (partial gravity?) , hangars (either or?) , and launch bays (zero?). I imagine most or all Spacy craft would, at some point, be subject to multiple degrees of gravity, based on maintenance, repair, modification, prep and launching. 
I imagine craft, like the Glamor Spider Bug would be used heavily for ultra low(or zero) gravity staging , recovery and launching of other space craft, such as the Rabbit, or the SF-3A Lancer II . And speaking of the Lancer! That's another Spacy craft that doesn't seem to have any apparent landing gear ! And, again, it may be subject to multiple environments and gravity aboard its mother ship.. I just wonder how the Lancer rests at idle. Some kind of rack or grapple holds it in place..? 🤷

[Sildani]

Here’s a question. The new Valkyries from the VF-24 on are using electromagnetic tracks to handle transformation to speed the process up and reduce maintenance. Once the pieces are where they’re supposed to go, are mechanical means still used to lock them in place, or is there a more permanent electromagnet used to hold them down?

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, Sildani said:

Here’s a question. The new Valkyries from the VF-24 on are using electromagnetic tracks to handle transformation to speed the process up and reduce maintenance. Once the pieces are where they’re supposed to go, are mechanical means still used to lock them in place, or is there a more permanent electromagnet used to hold them down?

I'd assume there is some mechanical retention mechanism, but I've not seen an explicit statement one way or the other on that one.

[Bolt]

Regarding the load outs for the VF-4 . I see in the Variable Fighter Master File that the VF-4 is sometimes equipped with dual gunpods. One on each wing.  Does anyone know under what circumstances this would be the case, other than "because we  can..". And , for that matter, under what circumstances would be necessary to even have one gunpod mounted. For the one, I'm assuming more intense and close range combat. But for two..?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Regarding the load outs for the VF-4 . I see in the Variable Fighter Master File that the VF-4 is sometimes equipped with dual gunpods. One on each wing.  Does anyone know under what circumstances this would be the case, other than "because we  can..". And , for that matter, under what circumstances would be necessary to even have one gunpod mounted. For the one, I'm assuming more intense and close range combat. But for two..?

That's kind of the elephant in the room when it comes to the model kits and so on that give the VF-4 a gunpod.

Why?

By all accounts, the VF-4's pair of beam guns do the same job but won't run out of ammunition because they're powered by the compact thermonuclear reactors in the engines.  The only time the VF-4 has ever been depicted in an official context using a gunpod is in the Macross II timeline's Macross: Eternal Love Song.  In that story, the Prometheus II had a pair of VF-4 Sirens that were assigned to Hound Squadron and outfitted with more powerful beam guns in the form of a large beam gunpod for the final offensive against the Burado main fleet's mobile fortress and specifically intended to kill the living command computer.

The only potential explanation I can think of for a main Macross timeline VF-4 being outfitted with gunpods would be for an atmospheric engagement.  Master File likes to remind its readers that energy weapons suffer performance degradation in atmosphere too as energy from the beam heats the atmospheric gases it's passing through.  Since most versions of the GU-11 are not reloadable, you'd have to carry two for an extended engagement.

[Bolt]

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's kind of the elephant in the room when it comes to the model kits and so on that give the VF-4 a gunpod.

Why?

By all accounts, the VF-4's pair of beam guns do the same job but won't run out of ammunition because they're powered by the compact thermonuclear reactors in the engines.  The only time the VF-4 has ever been depicted in an official context using a gunpod is in the Macross II timeline's Macross: Eternal Love Song.  In that story, the Prometheus II had a pair of VF-4 Sirens that were assigned to Hound Squadron and outfitted with more powerful beam guns in the form of a large beam gunpod for the final offensive against the Burado main fleet's mobile fortress and specifically intended to kill the living command computer.

The only potential explanation I can think of for a main Macross timeline VF-4 being outfitted with gunpods would be for an atmospheric engagement.  Master File likes to remind its readers that energy weapons suffer performance degradation in atmosphere too as energy from the beam heats the atmospheric gases it's passing through.  Since most versions of the GU-11 are not reloadable, you'd have to carry two for an extended engagement.

I see. I understand the VF-4 has mostly been seen loaded with a gunpod from the modelers sector (I'm guilty too!) . And, though the VFMF is not official,  it's interesting to note that there are a few depictions of VF-4's carrying duel gunpods(one under each wing) , in an atmospheric setting. Also ,there's another depiction (operation Pitfall?) showing the same but outside planetary atmosphere and definitely in space. Those VF-4's also have fast packs loaded upon them.  I'm just curious to know what special operations, conditions or circumstances would require a duelee set up. 

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

I see. I understand the VF-4 has mostly been seen loaded with a gunpod from the modelers sector (I'm guilty too!) . And, though the VFMF is not official,  it's interesting to note that there are a few depictions of VF-4's carrying duel gunpods(one under each wing) , in an atmospheric setting. Also ,there's another depiction (operation Pitfall?) showing the same but outside planetary atmosphere and definitely in space. Those VF-4's also have fast packs loaded upon them.  I'm just curious to know what special operations, conditions or circumstances would require a duelee set up. 

The only situations that come to mind are the aforementioned needing more bullets for an extended engagement, as well as for balance when flying (left and right side have an equal amount of aerodynamic drag [in an atmosphere] or weight and center of gravity [in outerspace]).

There may also be a need for gun pods when facing opponents where physical bullets perform better then beam weapons do.  However, I'm not sure what that would be.  The only thing that comes readily to mind is the Anti-Optical Weapon coating on the VF-171EX.  It's possible that something similar existed earlier in the Macross timeline, but I haven't come across any mention of it outside of the VF-171EX!  That said, it loops back into the dual gun pods for more bullets...

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, sketchley said:

The only thing that comes readily to mind is the Anti-Optical Weapon coating on the VF-171EX.  It's possible that something similar existed earlier in the Macross timeline, but I haven't come across any mention of it outside of the VF-171EX!

IIRC, the VF-171EX's anti-beam coating is said to be the same type applied to the VF-25.

Though the earliest mention of the technology I recall is in Macross Plus.  When Isamu reads the specs, an anti-laser coating is mentioned among its defensive systems.

[Bolt]

Ok, thanks guys.  Maybe "Pitfall" in the VFMF has some explanation ..🤷 otherwise, it's more like "because we can.." 

[Seto Kaiba]

15 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Ok, thanks guys.  Maybe "Pitfall" in the VFMF has some explanation ..🤷 otherwise, it's more like "because we can.." 

I'd suspect the latter.

Most of the Master File books have offered a loading table wherein the subject matter VF can carry more than one gunpod... as well as art for same.  The VF-25 book offers a table that claims the VF-25 can carry THREE gunpods, and at one point we see Armored VF-1s using multiple gunpods.

[TG Remix]

So going through some Macross side stuff for reasons, and I'm reminded that Macross Generation exists and so does Canary Minmay. In the plot synopsis she's said to be popular enough to be considered the "Second Coming of Minmay" (Which kinda on the nose considering her name, lol.) Since I've seen no full detailed summary of the plot, I've kinda gotten overly curious and wondered if she adopted the name "Minmay" as a stage name of sorts, or if she's related to a clone of the idol perhaps? Or maybe Generation's writers were just being as transparent as possible with the connections. 😛

[Seto Kaiba]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:10 AM, TG Remix said:

So going through some Macross side stuff for reasons, and I'm reminded that Macross Generation exists and so does Canary Minmay. In the plot synopsis she's said to be popular enough to be considered the "Second Coming of Minmay" (Which kinda on the nose considering her name, lol.) Since I've seen no full detailed summary of the plot, I've kinda gotten overly curious and wondered if she adopted the name "Minmay" as a stage name of sorts, or if she's related to a clone of the idol perhaps? Or maybe Generation's writers were just being as transparent as possible with the connections. 😛

Being a radio drama, I've never listened to Macross Generation... the only person I know offhand who IIRC did is Gubaba, of Gubabablog.  I think he's done some writing about that on his site.

[Bolt]

Concerning the many variants of the VF-1 Fast Packs. Am I correct in assuming the S-Fast Pack config ver. 1.1W-ST is simply an additional set of underslung boosters with additional thrust and a significant amount of extra propellent or fuel , but no other hardware or weapons systems ? As opposed to the ver. 1.1W, which are an additional set of underslung HMMP-02's. Which offer more thrust and more fuel ( but maybe not so much fuel as the 1.1W-ST.?) and the standard compliment of micro missiles.

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Concerning the many variants of the VF-1 Fast Packs. Am I correct in assuming the S-Fast Pack config ver. 1.1W-ST is simply an additional set of underslung boosters with additional thrust and a significant amount of extra propellent or fuel , but no other hardware or weapons systems ? As opposed to the ver. 1.1W, which are an additional set of underslung HMMP-02's. Which offer more thrust and more fuel ( but maybe not so much fuel as the 1.1W-ST.?) and the standard compliment of micro missiles.

Okay, took me a hot minute there to place the specific models that you were talking about in your question. It's been quite a while since I last considered the Variable Fighter Master File: SDF-1 Macross VF-1 Squadrons book.

The version 1.1 FAST pack configuration describe their in is primarily intended for range extension for Valkyries operating in the vicinity of the Moon. The W-ST configuration has replaced the HMMP-02 micro missile launcher assemblies with a pair supplemental fuel tank modules for the NP-BP-01 boosters. Master File presents this configuration as one mainly or at least commonly used by Apollo Base due to the additional fuel requirement that comes with operating in and around lunar orbit rather than simply in deep space. It could be described as a ferry configuration if you were so inclined. The only appreciable difference between it and the W configuration described beneath it is that, instead of fuel tanks, the W configuration has a second pair of HMMP-02 micro missile launchers.

Both of these versions are presented as something of an ugly compromise in order to have Valkyries operating in deep space and near lunar orbit before the introduction of more space capable models like the VF-4.

[Bolt]

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Okay, took me a hot minute there to place the specific models that you were talking about in your question. It's been quite a while since I last considered the Variable Fighter Master File: SDF-1 Macross VF-1 Squadrons book.

Wow, you really hit that one quick! I'm sorry, I should have referenced the VFMF VF-1 Squadrons book. 

 

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The version 1.1 FAST pack configuration describe their in is primarily intended for range extension for Valkyries operating in the vicinity of the Moon. The W-ST configuration has replaced the HMMP-02 micro missile launcher assemblies with a pair supplemental fuel tank modules for the NP-BP-01 boosters. Master File presents this configuration as one mainly or at least commonly used by Apollo Base due to the additional fuel requirement that comes with operating in and around lunar orbit rather than simply in deep space. It could be described as a ferry configuration if you were so inclined. The only appreciable difference between it and the W configuration described beneath it is that, instead of fuel tanks, the W configuration has a second pair of HMMP-02 micro missile launchers.

Ok cool. That's pretty much what I figured, but now have the context for said configurations . Thanks!

 

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Both of these versions are presented as something of an ugly compromise in order to have Valkyries operating in deep space and near lunar orbit before the introduction of more space capable models like the VF-4.

They appear to be a good solution. Does the V-4 really perform better, or longer than these VF-1  Fast Pack versions?