Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, sketchley said:

I think Seto's comment has to be taken with a grain of salt.

While I can be cantankerous at times, this is a topic suitable for those on a low-sodium diet.  No added salts.

Quote

マックスがどのような経緯でYF-29を入手したかは不明。

"It is unknown how Max obtained the YF-29."

That is a direct quotation from the liner notes.  The only part of the entire paragraph that isn't about the color being blue, in fact.  The paragraph this is from starts with mentioning the YF-29 being blue because it's Max's, then the commentary goes on to talk about how they were worried people might confuse it for Alto's (or Michel's) because it was a YF-29 colored blue and how they needed to make it a distinctive blue.

 

Here's the other:

Quote

Q：マックスの機体にYF-29デュランダルを選んだ理由は？ A：既存の機体の中で天才マックスにふさわしい機体を考えた時、思い浮かんだのがYF-29でした。 △小隊の機体はカイロスプラスになり、前進翼の機体がいなくなったので、ちょうどいいかなと。 入手ルートについては、マックスも軍に長く所属していたので、その繋がりを駆使して入手したのかもしれません（笑）。

That's a question asked to, and answered by, Kawamori in the liner notes.

Max has a YF-29 not for any actual story-relevant reason, but because it's all they could think to give him.

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Max has a YF-29 not for any actual story-relevant reason, but because it's all they could think to give him.

Let's face it: you could give Max a rocket pack, a pistol and send him out in a helmeted spacesuit, and he's still shoot down more mechs than the rest of the pilots in any given battle.

[JB0]

7 hours ago, sketchley said:

I think Seto's comment has to be taken with a grain of salt.

IMHO, I think the context is which plane out of the movie quality CG model art assets that they already have.

That was almost certainly why he didn't just roll up in his VF-22 from 7.

[sketchley]

12 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Here's the other:

That's a question asked to, and answered by, Kawamori in the liner notes.

Max has a YF-29 not for any actual story-relevant reason, but because it's all they could think to give him.

That quote from Kawamori-san is actually quite informative as to "why" he got it.  Long story short: Kawamori-san's modus operandi is to give everyone visually distinct mecha.  And "among the existing Valkyries" in their CG library, the YF-29 fits the bill.

 

Here's the DeepL translation for those that don't:

Quote

 

Q: Why did you choose the YF-29 Durandal as Max's aircraft?

A: When I thought of a suitable aircraft for the genius Max among the existing aircraft, the YF-29 came to mind.  The aircraft in the △ Platoon is now the Kairos Plus, and there are no longer any forward wing aircraft, so I thought it would be just right.

As for the acquisition route, Max had also been in the military for a long time, so he may have used that connection to obtain it (laughs).

 

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, sketchley said:

That quote from Kawamori-san is actually quite informative as to "why" he got it.  Long story short: Kawamori-san's modus operandi is to give everyone visually distinct mecha.  And "among the existing Valkyries" in their CG library, the YF-29 fits the bill.

What you're saying and what I'm saying are kind of distinction without difference... they fully own up to there not being an actual explanation for Max having a YF-29.  It's just what they had laying around that they felt "fit".

They could have given him a VF-31AX with a unique paintjob - and indeed the liner notes have a LOT to say about developing the distinct paintjobs with feedback from Tamashii - but they went with a YF-29 more or less arbitrarily.  

They could just as easily have given him an aircraft from their existing CG model library that he's flown before in prior official media: the VF-25.  It would have been just as visually distinct, and admittedly would have invoked the same paintjob concerns regarding Max's Blue vs. Michel's Blue, so difficulty-wise it would've been a wash.  It would've been a good deal easier to explain too, since the VF-25 isn't an impossibly-expensive machine only the military's super-elite special forces have and which Delta's material indicated that Xaos couldn't afford even if they wanted to.

(As often as feedback from Bandai Tamashii is mentioned, it feels like they had a LOT of say in decisions regarding the mecha this time around.)

Edited September 30, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

What you're saying and what I'm saying are kind of distinction without difference...

What you've been presenting is a 'glass is half empty' interpretation, but the original text is 'glass is half full', if you know what I mean.

... and when it comes to Japanese, subtext and context make all the difference in the world.

Edited October 1, 2022 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, sketchley said:

What you've been presenting is a 'glass is half empty' interpretation, but the original text is 'glass is half full', if you know what I mean.

Of course they're gonna spin it in a "glass half-full" manner, they're promoting their own work.  Glass half-empty is a much more objective way to look at the admission that they put Max in a YF-29 arbitrarily and didn't even bother to think up an explanation for a septuagenarian private citizen conveniently possessing the single most powerful prototype military aircraft in existence.  (Esp. since the last character in a similar position had to invest his life savings AND get special corporate participation to get a previous-generation VF that'd been downgraded to export specification, and after establishing at length that his employer straight-up couldn't afford to build a fully-operational fold wave system.)

Whether it's half-full or half-empty, someone still did a sub-par job of filling the glass. 😉 

(We engineers, however, just keep 50% of our water in a redundant glass.)

[George Yamamori]

If the VF-5000 and VF-11 were to have a forward firing internal gun in fighter mode, where would the ideal/logical placement be?

[pengbuzz]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Of course they're gonna spin it in a "glass half-full" manner, they're promoting their own work.  Glass half-empty is a much more objective way to look at the admission that they put Max in a YF-29 arbitrarily and didn't even bother to think up an explanation for a septuagenarian private citizen conveniently possessing the single most powerful prototype military aircraft in existence.  (Esp. since the last character in a similar position had to invest his life savings AND get special corporate participation to get a previous-generation VF that'd been downgraded to export specification, and after establishing at length that his employer straight-up couldn't afford to build a fully-operational fold wave system.)

Whether it's half-full or half-empty, someone still did a sub-par job of filling the glass. 😉 

(We engineers, however, just keep 50% of our water in a redundant glass.)

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, George Yamamori said:

If the VF-5000 and VF-11 were to have a forward firing internal gun in fighter mode, where would the ideal/logical placement be?

I would think on one of the main wing roots.

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, George Yamamori said:

If the VF-5000 and VF-11 were to have a forward firing internal gun in fighter mode, where would the ideal/logical placement be?

I guess that would depend on what you considered "ideal".

To have the cannon(s) available in all modes would be difficult given the VF-1-like transformations of the VF-5000 and VF-11.  The VF-1 managed it by putting its laser cannon(s) on the monitor turret and having the monitor turret on the underside in Fighter mode.  There really isn't a great placement for a gun that'd make it available in all modes like that on the VF-5000 or VF-11, since they moved the monitor turret so its gun could cover a rear-facing arc.  Since the arms block the wing root in GERWALK mode and the wings fold up when in Battroid mode, the best bet would probably be sticking the gun in the nose similar to what the Sv-262Hs did, so it'd at least be available in Fighter and GERWALK modes.  Either that or mount them in the vertical stabilizers like the YF-21/VF-22 did.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I guess that would depend on what you considered "ideal".

To have the cannon(s) available in all modes would be difficult given the VF-1-like transformations of the VF-5000 and VF-11.  The VF-1 managed it by putting its laser cannon(s) on the monitor turret and having the monitor turret on the underside in Fighter mode.  There really isn't a great placement for a gun that'd make it available in all modes like that on the VF-5000 or VF-11, since they moved the monitor turret so its gun could cover a rear-facing arc.  Since the arms block the wing root in GERWALK mode and the wings fold up when in Battroid mode, the best bet would probably be sticking the gun in the nose similar to what the Sv-262Hs did, so it'd at least be available in Fighter and GERWALK modes.  Either that or mount them in the vertical stabilizers like the YF-21/VF-22 did.

Good point; I hadn't considered that the arms block the wing root in  GERWALK mode.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, we got at least one useful detail out of the new movie.

The big bad's fancy ship is NOT a reclaimed Battle Galaxy.

Spoiler

It's a completely unrelated ship that for some reason has the same hull number in some of the art... presumably because it was built on the Battle Galaxy's CG model.

It bears its original name, Battle Astraea, from when it was a ship of the New UN Spacy 7th Fleet.

 

[JB0]

On 10/1/2022 at 3:21 AM, George Yamamori said:

If the VF-5000 and VF-11 were to have a forward firing internal gun in fighter mode, where would the ideal/logical placement be?

Perhaps in pods on the side of the nosecone, though those could easily be mistaken for FLIR sensors and cause confusion later.

[Bolt]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, we got at least one useful detail out of the new movie.

The big bad's fancy ship is NOT a reclaimed Battle Galaxy.

  Hide contents

It's a completely unrelated ship that for some reason has the same hull number in some of the art... presumably because it was built on the Battle Galaxy's CG model.

It bears its original name, Battle Astraea, from when it was a ship of the New UN Spacy 7th Fleet.

 

Confusing..

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Bolt said:

Confusing..

Infuriatingly so!

From what is said in the Absolute Live!!!!!! movie itself, Heimdall's Battle Astraea is a modern Battle-class supercarrier from one of the main fleets of the central New UN Spacy that disappeared and was presumed destroyed several years before the events of the movie.

Spoiler

Its captain, "Iron" Ian Cromwell, orchestrated the ship's disappearance so that it could become the flagship of his paramilitary group Heimdall.

The Epsilon Foundation apparently modified it after its "disappearance" to include banned technologies like the Siren Delta System quantum AI supercomputer and Sv-303 Vivasvat unmanned fighters so that it would be able to break through fold faults and reach Lady M's hypothesized location aboard the Megaroad-01.

 

[TehPW]

Seto, you mentioned in the Battletech Clanners thread that there are no true black hats in Macross. Is this group in AL!!!!!! used as a Macross Grey hat, like all other protagonists in the Macross series? I also find it hilariously ironic: Heimdall is a political group (from the Lyran Commonwealth faction of Battletech) that exists to serve as a check to any excesses of Loki, the Lyran Commonwealths official secret police

Heimdall (organization) - BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)

Is there a concise review of this movie, front to back? Google... actually is useless on this subject.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

30 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Seto, you mentioned in the Battletech Clanners thread that there are no true black hats in Macross. Is this group in AL!!!!!! used as a Macross Grey hat, like all other protagonists in the Macross series?

When it comes to the color of Heimdall's hat, Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! has a nasty case of Protagonist Centered Morality.

Heimdall does...

Spoiler

... invade and occupy several worlds in the Brisingr cluster including Ragna and Windermere IV in order to gain access to the Protoculture System for its ability to generate a Super Fold Gate.

But aside from that and some incidental property damage early in the film, the film never manages to actually construct any kind of argument (cogent or otherwise) for why Xaos's defense of Lady M is "right" and Heimdall's opposition to her is "wrong".  It's actually kind of weird that they never even make a serious effort to refute Heimdall's assertions about Lady M using her influence to manipulate New UN Government policy.  There really isn't any arguing Cromwell's point about Mikumo, since it's been acknowledged in the previous film that Lady M broke interstellar laws and used banned technology to create Mikumo as a de facto (and illegal) clone supersoldier.  When Exsedol later summarizes Cromwell's positions for Max and Arad, what he lists is all common sense stuff like advocating for more widespread use of unmanned fighters to reduce the risk to pilots and advocating for cloning and cybernetics because they offered the potential to improve medical care for the wounded.  

Spoiler

The Last Straw for him was apparently that he advocated for the use of MDE weapons against a major enemy threatening his homeworld and permission was denied, which led to the fleet he commanded and his homeworld being destroyed.

The audience is clearly supposed to see him as some kind of well-intentioned extremist, but there's really nothing extreme or unreasonable about his views.  They're only presented as "wrong" because they're at odds with Lady M's views, which Xaos unquestioningly supports.  If it weren't for the lyrics of Yami_Q_Ray's songs being edgy AF there wouldn't really be much of anything to even mark them out as the film's antagonists besides the protagonists fighting them (and losing).

(Considering Xaos were acknowledged to be unlawful combatants in the war between the New UN Gov't and Windermere IV, it's hard to even argue that Xaos's hat is appreciably a lighter shade of grey than Heimdall's.)

 

30 minutes ago, TehPW said:

I also find it hilariously ironic: Heimdall is a political group (from the Lyran Commonwealth faction of Battletech) that exists to serve as a check to any excesses of Loki, the Lyran Commonwealths official secret police

Norse references all over the place, lol.

Ever since Macross 30, the franchise has been doing that increasingly often.  Many of the placenames on Uroboros have meaningful names drawn from Norse mythology relevant to their significance in the story, and the antagonists were named for a Norse poem conveying Odin's wisdom, guidance on proper conduct, and advice for living.  Fitting for what their role is in the story.  

Heimdall is a similarly meaningful name.  The Norse god Heimdall was the god who kept watch for invaders and for the onset of Ragnarok, who drank from the well of knowledge at the roots of the world tree and who is responsible for summoning the gods to the final battle at the end of days with the Gjallarhorn.  The organization Heimdall wants to let the human race acquire and exercise the knowledge of the ancient Protoculture to guard against humanity's destruction by outside forces.  (It's interesting to note that the god is also associated with the goddess Freyja.  Heimdall did battle with Loki, the trickster god of chaos, to recover Freyja's torc Brisingamen... a name derived from the word Brisingr (fire) for which the star cluster the series is set in is named.)

Heimdall's flagship, Battle Astraea, is a bit off-brand, since Astraea is a Greek minor goddess, but also an extremely unsubtle mission statement. Astraea was the virgin goddess of justice, purity, and innocence who once lived among humans but fled to the stars when her disgust with humanity's growing obsession with material wealth (gold) grew to be more than she could bear.  It's said that she would one day return to usher in a new golden age for humanity.

Spoiler

Ian Cromwell went AWOL with the Battle Astraea when he grew too disgusted with what he saw as Lady M's corrupt influence over the New UN Government and New UN Forces and returned intent on ushering in a new golden age for humanity by eliminating the source of the corruption.

The BattleTech reference is a more limited one, to Heimdall's battle against Loki to recover the Brisingamen he stole from Freyja.

 

30 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Is there a concise review of this movie, front to back? Google... actually is useless on this subject.

None that I am aware of.

I could write one, but it'd have to wait until at least Tuesday.  I've got an indecent amount of work to get caught up on before Wednesday and way too many home repairs going on at once.

[Bolt]

Just to keep this conversation in the proper place..

The new VF-31AX may still not surpass the VF-24. But we aren't getting that info just yet..

""The modifications push the VF-31 airframe to its limit but only really improve it enough to rival the performance of the VF-27.""

That's a veritable improvement! Production wise , I consider the VF-27 to be pretty high end. Although, maybe it's not a "production " model , as Galaxy were the main producers and users of the VF-27. And on that note, the drones Galaxy was using in Frontier. Were those also mostly or solely deployed by Galaxy?

[charles88]

I don't think

On 10/3/2022 at 12:37 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

But aside from that and some incidental property damage early in the film, the film never manages to actually construct any kind of argument (cogent or otherwise) for why Xaos's defense of Lady M is "right" and Heimdall's opposition to her is "wrong".  It's actually kind of weird that they never even make a serious effort to refute Heimdall's assertions about Lady M using her influence to manipulate New UN Government policy.  There really isn't any arguing Cromwell's point about Mikumo, since it's been acknowledged in the previous film that Lady M broke interstellar laws and used banned technology to create Mikumo as a de facto (and illegal) clone supersoldier.  When Exsedol later summarizes Cromwell's positions for Max and Arad, what he lists is all common sense stuff like advocating for more widespread use of unmanned fighters to reduce the risk to pilots and advocating for cloning and cybernetics because they offered the potential to improve medical care for the wounded. 

I don't think Heimdall is lighter shade of grey as he wiling to use Siren System which uses BABY as main component of System. Clone or not its still uses baby as weapon and Hiemdall and his sponsor treat it as weapon and experiment

Also Lady M only clone 1 Star Singer which is Mikumo and still treat as human as she allow Mikumo bond with Walkure

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, charles88 said:

I don't think Heimdall is lighter shade of grey as he wiling to use Siren System which uses BABY as main component of System.

Did you forget Xaos was basically keeping Mikumo as a slave from the moment of her creation until... actually, there's no evidence that they've ever stopped keeping her as a slave.

Her interactions with Walkure were strictly limited and she wasn't allowed out into society in order to conceal that she was a 3 year old illegal clone with virtually no understanding of social behavior.  She was created to be a weapon, indoctrinated and trained to be a singer, and shuttled from one battlefield to another with no real opportunity to object or even consider an alternative lifestyle.  

Spoiler

That the Siren Delta System core developed into an independent living being appears to have been unintentional and a consequence of exposure to Walkure, but the ethics there are potentially politically loaded and not appropriate to discuss here.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

The new VF-31AX may still not surpass the VF-24. But we aren't getting that info just yet..

Since the Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! Blu-ray booklet decided to offer nothing useful, our last best hope is Variable Fighter Master File.

We'll know if THAT was a waste of time in December.  I've already preordered multiple copies as per my usual.

 

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

""The modifications push the VF-31 airframe to its limit but only really improve it enough to rival the performance of the VF-27.""

That's a veritable improvement! Production wise , I consider the VF-27 to be pretty high end. Although, maybe it's not a "production " model , as Galaxy were the main producers and users of the VF-27.

An improvement it most assuredly is, but likely not one suitable for mass production for reasons of cost and the additional maintenance requirements caused by overstressing the VF-31's airframe.

The VF-27 was as close as anyone could get to an actually-economical mass production version of the YF-29.  General Galaxy completed the VF-27 using YF-29 development data leaked to them by LAI and pushed the envelope as far as they could with their bleeding edge tech, but because the ISC systems available couldn't keep up it became necessary for the VF-27's pilot to be a reinforced cyborg.  It is still the highest performance production 5th Generation VF we've yet seen.  

(AFAIK, the only outside users of the VF-27 shown to date have been Zelgaar Heavy Industries on Pipure and the Hunter's Guild on Uroboros.)

 

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

And on that note, the drones Galaxy was using in Frontier. Were those also mostly or solely deployed by Galaxy?

The AIF-9V "Ghost V9"?  They are a Macross Galaxy-developed improvement upon the mass production version of the Ghost X-9.

Earth was shown to use the AIF-9B in Macross VF-X2, though it was outwardly identical to the Ghost X-9 prototype.

[twich]

so now that we do have some information from the Macross Delta 2nd movie, I have a question about the VF-31AX Kairos Plus.  The VF-31 Siegfried has an up tuned version of the FF-3001A which gives it 1875kN x2 of thrust.  The base VF-31A has the standard FF-3001A which has 1645kN x2 of thrust.  Which does the VF-31AX have?  Does it even explain it?  If they increased the amount of fold quartz and also increased the size of the arm mounted rail guns, would it not make a little sense to increase the output of the engines?  I imagine the new gunpod of the VF-31AX has increased power demands over the standard LU-18.  Also, how many SV-262's did they have to junk to get the weapon systems off of?  Just some musing questions that I hope someone can answer.

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, twich said:

Does it even explain it?

Nope.  Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! has nothing but scorn for your desire to know anything about the new mechanical designs.

The liner notes contain no useful information whatsoever.

 

4 minutes ago, twich said:

I have a question about the VF-31AX Kairos Plus.  The VF-31 Siegfried has an up tuned version of the FF-3001A which gives it 1875kN x2 of thrust.  The base VF-31A has the standard FF-3001A which has 1645kN x2 of thrust.  Which does the VF-31AX have?

Based on what little is said and shown in the film proper, I would assume - and I must stress that this is an assumption - that the VF-31AX Kairos Plus is still using the detuned FF-3001/FC2 engines that were originally fitted to those airframes as part of the Siegfried custom specification before the improvised repairs.

 

13 minutes ago, twich said:

If they increased the amount of fold quartz and also increased the size of the arm mounted rail guns, would it not make a little sense to increase the output of the engines?  I imagine the new gunpod of the VF-31AX has increased power demands over the standard LU-18.  Also, how many SV-262's did they have to junk to get the weapon systems off of?  Just some musing questions that I hope someone can answer.

Expecting sense from Absolute Live!!!!!! is asking too much of it.

So's expecting a coherent plot, well-choreographed action, answers of any kind, or really anything satisfying at all beyond Max absolutely clowning on Delta Flight before telling them the many ways they absolutely do not measure up.

Plus or minus a few modifications, it's the same basic airframe as the Siegfried and that was already being pushed to its limits with the 1,875kN of the detuned FF-3001/FC2s.  I'm not sure they had room to significantly improve the engine output.  Their outing in battle suggests they're still nowhere even close to the YF-29's level and might not even actually be a significant improvement on the Siegfried.  No indications given about where they even got some of the parts.  It's possible they used the facilities of the factory satellite that they made the repairs on to produce the various bits they needed that weren't on-hand hardware.

[JB0]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Max absolutely clowning on Delta Flight before telling them the many ways they absolutely do not measure up.

This is the first thing I've heard that makes me interested in this film.

[pengbuzz]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nope.  Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! has nothing but scorn for your desire to know anything about the new mechanical designs.

The liner notes contain no useful information whatsoever.

 

Based on what little is said and shown in the film proper, I would assume - and I must stress that this is an assumption - that the VF-31AX Kairos Plus is still using the detuned FF-3001/FC2 engines that were originally fitted to those airframes as part of the Siegfried custom specification before the improvised repairs.

 

Expecting sense from Absolute Live!!!!!! is asking too much of it.

So's expecting a coherent plot, well-choreographed action, answers of any kind, or really anything satisfying at all beyond Max absolutely clowning on Delta Flight before telling them the many ways they absolutely do not measure up.

Plus or minus a few modifications, it's the same basic airframe as the Siegfried and that was already being pushed to its limits with the 1,875kN of the detuned FF-3001/FC2s.  I'm not sure they had room to significantly improve the engine output.  Their outing in battle suggests they're still nowhere even close to the YF-29's level and might not even actually be a significant improvement on the Siegfried.  No indications given about where they even got some of the parts.  It's possible they used the facilities of the factory satellite that they made the repairs on to produce the various bits they needed that weren't on-hand hardware.

I wonder if they did any sort of airframe reinforcement then?

[Seto Kaiba]

On 10/10/2022 at 6:28 AM, pengbuzz said:

I wonder if they did any sort of airframe reinforcement then?

The shape of the airframe changed a bit, and the wing got thicker, so I think it's a safe bet to say that they did.

[pengbuzz]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:53 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

The shape of the airframe changed a bit, and the wing got thicker, so I think it's a safe bet to say that they did.

I thought as much; with what was being asked of it, you would think they would have to.

[SebastianP]

So, a couple of thoughts struck me - suddenly, without warning, I ought to file a police report - while I was playing around with MiniValk (Michael Ryan)'s excellent printable 3D models.

The first one was that "hey, don't the side pods on the Megaroad-01 look a bit like the lower half is some kind of ARMD docked side-on to a pylon, sort of like how the Tomcat's wing glove pylons worked, except backwards?" You have the painted flight deck facing outward, you have something that looks more like a pair of humongous engines than anything else, and you even have what looks like the front end of a ship at the back end. 

The second was that "Hmm, whatever ship that is would be even more asymmetrical than your average ARMD, and would necessitate a left and a right hand configuration for sure, just like the DYRL Macross. 

The third was that "hey, the SDF-2 Megalord's line art actually *doesn't* have handed versions of the ARMD, they're actually identical in the artwork.

And then I almost landed in a rabbit-hole trying to figure out whether there was any evidence on MMM that the ARMDs installed on the DYRL Macross were indeed left-and-right handed in the first place... (it turns out that they are, but only one of the pieces of line art on MMM actually *shows* this - the "SDF-1 Macross attack mode line art". *Every other piece* of DYRL line art only shows the bottoms of the ARMDs, or only the port side. Even the "SDF-1 Macross schematics" actually only shows the port side as the front/back view is split. 

Anyway, the DYRL ARMDs, and the possible Megaroad ARMDs, are the only ships I can come up with off hand that are "handed" like that, unless you want to be silly and count the integral pieces of the New Macross class as separate ships. Even the Aether and Hemera were identical (their islands are on the same side relative to the deck on both ships in both the TV show and on my tiny Macross Elysion Mechacolle model).

And while I'm logged in and actually able to post at all (that was a bit of a mess to figure out, thanks Shawn for helping me with that), I may as well ask - does anyone know what color scheme to pain the ASS-1 in? I'm almost thinking green with yellow blobs in the trenches, but that's Zentraedi colors. What colors did the Supervision Army use?

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

16 minutes ago, SebastianP said:

The first one was that "hey, don't the side pods on the Megaroad-01 look a bit like the lower half is some kind of ARMD docked side-on to a pylon, sort of like how the Tomcat's wing glove pylons worked, except backwards?" You have the painted flight deck facing outward, you have something that looks more like a pair of humongous engines than anything else, and you even have what looks like the front end of a ship at the back end.

A bit, yes... though I don't believe they've ever been described as independently-operable warships like the ARMD-class.  It's possible they started out as partially-completed ARMD-class ships that were integrated directly into the ship's structure.  The process of launching from them is a bit odd, but only seen in the OP for Macross M3.

 

16 minutes ago, SebastianP said:

Anyway, the DYRL ARMDs, and the possible Megaroad ARMDs, are the only ships I can come up with off hand that are "handed" like that, unless you want to be silly and count the integral pieces of the New Macross class as separate ships. Even the Aether and Hemera were identical (their islands are on the same side relative to the deck on both ships in both the TV show and on my tiny Macross Elysion Mechacolle model).

There is an extreme case in the "handedness" of the individual ships that make up the Macross Quarter-class as well...

But no, apart from the movie ARMD-class - called the ARMD II-class in some cases - there aren't any ships that I know of that exhibit mirror-imaged variants like that.

 

16 minutes ago, SebastianP said:

And while I'm logged in and actually able to post at all (that was a bit of a mess to figure out, thanks Shawn for helping me with that), I may as well ask - does anyone know what color scheme to pain the ASS-1 in? I'm almost thinking green with yellow blobs in the trenches, but that's Zentraedi colors. What colors did the Supervision Army use?

The painting seen in Macross Perfect Memory (pg203) is kind of a blue-gray color?

The art in Macross Chronicle's History Sheet showing crews examining the ASS-1 shortly after the crash depict it with a Zentradi green hull.

[SebastianP]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

A bit, yes... though I don't believe they've ever been described as independently-operable warships like the ARMD-class.  It's possible they started out as partially-completed ARMD-class ships that were integrated directly into the ship's structure.  The process of launching from them is a bit odd, but only seen in the OP for Macross M3.

Flight deck on the top of the side pod, looks like? Also, there's a glow coming out of all three openings at the front of the pod. I really have to wonder what that's about, given that they're facing forward. 

Anyway, I tried chopping the "upper half" off of the side pod to see what it'd look like as a ship. Models of the Megalord (background, and the ARMD from it is the far ship in the lineup) and Megaroad-01 part are by MiniValks (Michael Ryan); the TV-style ARMD is by Astrofossil. All of them can be found through Thingiverse and are CC-BY-NC 4.0. 

https://i.imgur.com/vlKKU1K.png

Edited October 14, 2022 by SebastianP

[Bolt]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:56 PM, SebastianP said:

Flight deck on the top of the side pod, looks like? Also, there's a glow coming out of all three openings at the front of the pod. I really have to wonder what that's about, given that they're facing forward. 

Anyway, I tried chopping the "upper half" off of the side pod to see what it'd look like as a ship. Models of the Megalord (background, and the ARMD from it is the far ship in the lineup) and Megaroad-01 part are by MiniValks (Michael Ryan); the TV-style ARMD is by Astrofossil. All of them can be found through Thingiverse and are CC-BY-NC 4.0. 

https://i.imgur.com/vlKKU1K.png

Thats quite interesting. I've spent a lot of mental energy trying to imagine the flight decks , service bays and launch bays on those parts of the Megaroad-01..

[SebastianP]

8 hours ago, Bolt said:

Thats quite interesting. I've spent a lot of mental energy trying to imagine the flight decks , service bays and launch bays on those parts of the Megaroad-01..

Yeah, the big problem with the line art is that it's not internally consistent - not as bad as something like the Asuka II line art from Zero, where from drawing to drawing they can't decide how many Cheyenne tubs there are. And then there's M3, which adds more features that aren't there in the line art, like whichever opening Max and Milia launch out of during the opening animation. 

I showed my chopped off version of the "ship" to the artist who made the model, and he went "wow, that looks convincing enough to try making a proper stand alone version". He's got a bit of a full plate already though.

[SebastianP]

Is Mr. March still around on the forums somewhere? I heard something about him working on a Macross Delta update for M3, but that was months ago and the site has yet to be updated. And I have some possible corrections to add for the existing articles.  

Old business first

0. Battle Frontier

Armament:

• 12 x twin guided anti-ship heavy beam cannon turrets (two at the front, two on the back, and two on the crest of each shoulder piece).
• 4 x triple guided anti-ship heavy beam cannon turrets (two on each side flanking the bridge).

None of the four turrets you can see on the shoulder armor are the ones on the crest of it, those are out of frame here. 

Also, look closely under the edge of the shoulder piece, there's two very long thin barrel-like protrusions sticking out. I'm not going to categorically declare that these are weapons, but their mounting locations look similar to the hidden rail guns on Battle 7. 

Northampton-class, carrier type (SMS Gefion from Macross 30)

• 2 x twin 72 mm beam cannon turrets (dorsal, one forward, one aft)
• 2 x twin 58 mm beam cannon turrets (ventral, one forward, one aft)
• 18 x twin 20 mm beam CIWS (dorsal, 9 on either side of the bridge tower)
• 4 x anti-ship missile tubes (forward, two on either side of the hull)
• 2 x flight decks with catapults

 

Now, for new business, specifically from the new movie:

 

The Aether-style ARMDs

• 4 x twin guided beam cannon turrets (two on each thruster pod, one dorsal and one ventral). The top ones appear to be mounted so that they tilt on their side when the pod tucks in for docking, not sure how that works. These are smaller than any of the ones on the main ship.
• Each ship has a macross cannon, but it's doubtful they have enough power to fire it without being docked to the main ship. (One of the Macross-class in Zettai Live fires left handed after having previously fired right handed). 

Elysion-type Macross-class.

At least twelve of these muster at Alfheim for transit to Windermere according to the tactical maps, and while only eight are visible in later tactical maps, I have *nine* firing during the big mass fire event.

• 12 x super-heavy Macross cannon-type turrets (two on each knee, two on each shoulder, and four on the chest in attacker mode; two on the centerline and three flanking on each side dorsally, plus two on each outside beam in cruiser mode)
• 13 x twin heavy anti-ship beam cannon turrets (four on each upright boom, plus two in front and one in the back of the crotch facing downwards in attacker mode; eight aft and three amidships centerline (one ventral) in cruiser mode.
• Numerous smaller turrets (several, confirmed six per side around the "mini flight deck" on the side of each leg on Gigasion)
• Gigasion traded two of the heaviest turrets (the rear/lower one from each knee) for its wings, as they attach there in cruiser mode. Gigasion is also absolutely covered in spaced armor panels, as are the bottoms of its carrier arms.
• Gigasion's left carrier seems to be numbered CV/C-100
• Elysion was present for the final battle, there's a member of the class with the right coloration and most notably a deck number that looks like they read CV/C-109.

Stealth Cruiser

• I have a partial top view showing five small and two slightly larger twin beam turrets similar to the ones on the Northampton 2059 version flanking the bridge tower on either side. Still chasing a better view of the cluster of turrets on the stern. 

VF-31AX Armored

• 22 missiles in each chest compartment (x2) =44
• 15 missiles in each shoulder compartment (x2) =30
• 34 missiles in outeboard leg launcher (x4) = 136
• 14 missiles in large pod launcher (x4) = 56
• 12 missiles in small pod launcher (x6) = 72
• 16 missiles in inboard leg launchers (x4) = 64
• 402 missiles total visible on the shooting model. Some pods may have multiple layers - in fact the leg launchers definitely do since they look full again when they're jettisoned after already being fired once. 

 Uraga-class carrier

• Four Cheyenne destroids can be seen standing on the side of the hull below the edge of the raised flight deck during Hayate's charge toward Astrea. There are also a pair of CIWS turrets in this area. Another pair of Cheyennes are standing on the side of the hull at the stern. All of these are literally one or two frames a piece, this is a fast shot. 

I forgot to save a lot of these frames, but they're in there and I'll find them again...

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, SebastianP said:

Is Mr. March still around on the forums somewhere? I heard something about him working on a Macross Delta update for M3, but that was months ago and the site has yet to be updated.

He hasn't posted on here in quite a while.

Come to that, I haven't spoken to him in a while either... I've been keeping the server going, but that's all I've been doing for it since I've been very busy with work and moving and a host of other nonsense since the start of the pandemic.  I know he recently changed jobs and moved I think twice recently, so I assume that's probably something to do with it.

 

Right now there haven't been any official specs for anything in the new movie, even the new movie's liner notes were silent on the subject, so all hopes currently hang on the Master File.

Once I'm done renovating my home office, I'll be getting back to work on my own projects and only doing server maintenance on M3.