Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, aurance said:

This joke sure is getting a lot of mileage 😛

By the time the film actually comes out, that'll have more mileage on it than the Macross Elysion.

[Bolt]

Based on this photo comparison by @Miles_Wolf the new VF-31 looks more beefy than the older model. I wonder if this follows the line art. Assuming it does, this must surely accommodate more fuel , ammo, etc. Also, it may have a more structured frame and can handle more stress..

[Knight26]

4 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Based on this photo comparison by @Miles_Wolf the new VF-31 looks more beefy than the older model. I wonder if this follows the line art. Assuming it does, this must surely accommodate more fuel , ammo, etc. Also, it may have a more structured frame and can handle more stress..

The beefier wing root might also be to carry heavier loads.  Doesn't this version carry the mini-drakens?  If so, that additional mass might be too much for the regular wing, so extra structure was added to compensate.

[pengbuzz]

39 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

The beefier wing root might also be to carry heavier loads.  Doesn't this version carry the mini-drakens?  If so, that additional mass might be too much for the regular wing, so extra structure was added to compensate.

The nose landing gear strut looks heavier on the new VF-31 as well, judging from the pic. I also see (what looks to be) heavier cannons mounted where the wing root meets the body. The ailerons also look a little larger, and their mounting to the wings looks reinforced as well. Overall wingspan looks a slight bit shorter than the top pic, and the angled canards look to be angled down a bit more too.

  

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

By the time the film actually comes out, that'll have more mileage on it than the Macross Elysion.

I don't think we'll hear the end of it soon, as folks will want to insert their own version of it into the various threads about it. I'm afraid the joke will be warm for quite some time...say, the next nine months. All that will vary on it will be the delivery people use.

Edited August 1, 2021 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, Bolt said:

Based on this photo comparison by @Miles_Wolf the new VF-31 looks more beefy than the older model. I wonder if this follows the line art. Assuming it does, this must surely accommodate more fuel , ammo, etc. Also, it may have a more structured frame and can handle more stress..

IMO, this angle kind of exaggerates the actual increase in bulk... it's mostly in the wings.

The inner wing surface appears to have been bulked up a bit to make room for the larger arms.  The ordnance container on this version also looks a lot larger because the Kairos Plus's beam gunpod is lot larger than the standard issue one, being nearly as big as the pod itself.

[aurance]

Silly jokes aside I’m a little puzzled about the choice of aesthetic for this new container. There are a lot of of way cooler/more interesting designs they could have done for this.

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, aurance said:

Silly jokes aside I’m a little puzzled about the choice of aesthetic for this new container. There are a lot of of way cooler/more interesting designs they could have done for this.

Yup... the painful irony being that they had several better designs already, from Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, the Macross Delta modeling books, and Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried:

[Thom]

So, you're saying I'm going to have to buy some new VFs - again...

[Sanity is Optional]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

So, you're saying I'm going to have to buy some new VFs - again...

Well, you are on Macross World, aren't you?

[Master Dex]

I dunno.. the preorder for Hayate's AX already passed so you might not need to worry about one of them at least lol.

[Bolt]

Strictly rhetorical, right @Thom ? 😉

[Thom]

@Sanity is Optional @Master DexIf they come out with 1/72s I may have to pay my dues.😉

@Bolt Yeah, I already know the answer.😀

 

 

 

[Sanity is Optional]

I’ve been hoping for a Bandai 1/72 VF-31A…

I guess it’s a lot more likely we’ll see the 31-AX as a model kit, since they’re hero units.

Would have been nice to have a kit without all the ridiculous stickers/decals though!

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

I’ve been hoping for a Bandai 1/72 VF-31A…

I guess it’s a lot more likely we’ll see the 31-AX as a model kit, since they’re hero units.

Would have been nice to have a kit without all the ridiculous stickers/decals though!

I'm sorry, but could you please speak up? I can't hear you over the sound of the internet in the background....

 

🙃

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Would have been nice to have a kit without all the ridiculous stickers/decals though!

Just for that, the next kit will be ALL stickers.  You have to stick them together in a certain order to get the shape of the VF, like additive foam build-up.

[Bolt]

I'm wondering if the armored parts are going to get an "upgrade ".

[Scream Man]

So I just got the 29 Full Armor set today (And its great) but it reminded me of a question Ive been meaning to ask; Is there a reason the Super Pack Engines (The ones that attach by the vertical stabilizers) extend outwards? It always vaguely looked like uncovered engines extending rearwards, and i never quite understood why?

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Scream Man said:

So I just got the 29 Full Armor set today (And its great) but it reminded me of a question Ive been meaning to ask; Is there a reason the Super Pack Engines (The ones that attach by the vertical stabilizers) extend outwards? It always vaguely looked like uncovered engines extending rearwards, and i never quite understood why?

I'm not aware of any official explanation for why the YF-29 Super Pack is designed the way it is... 

If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say the positioning of the booster probably has a lot to do with the concealed MDE beam cannon turret being positioned where it is inboard of the stabilizers and the pack as a whole trying to keep a low profile.

[wmkjr]

11 hours ago, Scream Man said:

So I just got the 29 Full Armor set today (And its great) but it reminded me of a question Ive been meaning to ask; Is there a reason the Super Pack Engines (The ones that attach by the vertical stabilizers) extend outwards? It always vaguely looked like uncovered engines extending rearwards, and i never quite understood why?

In the instructions sheet, the extended engines and blue tips on the wings are space flight configuration. Atmosphere is retracted and blue tips removed.

Edited August 8, 2021 by wmkjr
pic added

[Scream Man]

ok, so its something to do with Space flight then? Okidokey. 

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm not aware of any official explanation for why the YF-29 Super Pack is designed the way it is... 

If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say the positioning of the booster probably has a lot to do with the concealed MDE beam cannon turret being positioned where it is inboard of the stabilizers and the pack as a whole trying to keep a low profile.

I dont mean the position of the Boosters on the wings, I mean the part where the booster nozzles extend outward in space flight. Alli could think of was it was some sort of cooling measure

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Scream Man said:

ok, so its something to do with Space flight then? Okidokey. 

I dont mean the position of the Boosters on the wings, I mean the part where the booster nozzles extend outward in space flight. Alli could think of was it was some sort of cooling measure

Yeah, I don't know if anything is said about why the engines extend backwards the way they do... it probably is something to do with cooling, and/or facilitating their ability to thrust-vector.  Deployed like that is probably their default state, with the shorter form they take in atmosphere being something about drag reduction or thereabouts.

Much more is said about the little cover that goes over the engine intake.  That's a fuel tank.

[Scream Man]

I actually knew that one! 

Thank you, as always, sir. 

[Bolt]

Hoping to see a super Kairos design in the new movie. 

[aurance]

A bit cheeky question…

What’s with the five head lasers on a VF-19S? Isn’t that a bit excessive? 

[Bolt]

The canon* answer , It looks cool !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Canon is everywhere and nowhere 🙃

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Bolt said:

The canon* answer , It looks cool !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Canon is everywhere and nowhere 🙃

But he's looking for the... Cannon... answer. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, aurance said:

A bit cheeky question…

What’s with the five head lasers on a VF-19S? Isn’t that a bit excessive? 

It might be... and the exact reason that the VF-19S has so many guns is unclear.

That said, the VF-19S is actually carrying two different types of directed energy weapon on its monitor turret.  The VF-19's first mass production type - the VF-19A/B/C/D/E? - had only the one Mauler REB-30G anti-aircraft laser cannon on its monitor turret.  It was replaced by a small bore particle beam cannon on the VF-19F and VF-19S and the VF-19S adopted that quartet of anti-aircraft laser cannons in addition to it for reasons unclear.

Macross Chronicle's Mechanic Sheet for Docker's VF-19S notes that the laser cannons can also be used as a laser communication system, suggesting that's part of the communication robustness improvements that tend to come with the "S" variant command specification, but offers no further justification.  I'd almost argue the extra laser cannons are simply a New UN Forces tradition at this point to make it look more like the VF-1S.

Master File has a rather odd (unofficial) take that the VF-19F/S type also normally uses the REB-30G laser cannon that the initial production types used, that the particle beam cannon is not an entirely stable system, and that the lasers were added to the VF-19S type to provide a backup in the event that the beam cannon fails.

[aurance]

If Kawamori had made the VF-1 today, how different would it be stylistically? Is it possible to guess? I'm thinking it would have had clear sensor bits in the nosecone area, since he seems to like putting them in every valk since then including VF-0.

[sketchley]

For a general idea:

• First, compare the changes he made to the VF-1 when he designed the VF-0.
• Next, look at the evolution of the VFs in CG from the VF-0/Sv-51, through the VF-25 to the VF-31.

 

As you said, the sensor bits would be internalized—but if he's keeping the F-14 image source, then there's going to be some kind of chin sensor pod.

In the "How Tough is Your VF..." series I drew*, I noticed a steady increase in complexity.  While everything up to Macross F was relatively easy to draw (especially the SDFM and M7 Valkyries!), the VF-25 was where it started to verge on being too complex to hand-draw effectively.  In short: it's not that the transformation, etc. is too difficult, but the shapes of the individual parts are not conducive to drawing, and the panel lines, etc. on the parts aren't helpful for conveying volume—in fact, they do a darn good job at highlighting mistakes!

So, the net effect is it will look more streamlined/stealthy in fighter form, but things like the torso, arms and legs will be more complex with lots of concave, convex, hollow, and otherwise uneven surfaces.  Not to mention gangly arms with a smaller head...

 

* https://www.deviantart.com/studiootaking/art/How-Tough-Is-Your-VF-0-564358951

https://www.deviantart.com/studiootaking/art/How-Tough-Is-Your-VF-1-565535276

https://www.deviantart.com/studiootaking/art/How-Tough-Is-Your-VF-25-570988566

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by sketchley

[pengbuzz]

58 minutes ago, sketchley said:

So, the net effect is it will look more streamlined/stealthy in fighter form, but things like the torso, arms and legs will be more complex with lots of concave, convex, hollow, and otherwise uneven surfaces.  Not to mention gangly arms with a smaller head...

In other words: they're designing valks to look like Callista Flockhart in Battroid mode?

[AN/ALQ128]

2 hours ago, aurance said:

If Kawamori had made the VF-1 today, how different would it be stylistically? Is it possible to guess? I'm thinking it would have had clear sensor bits in the nosecone area, since he seems to like putting them in every valk since then including VF-0.

Wasn't the VF-0 exactly that, a reimagination of the VF-1 but with Kawamori's newer, CG oriented design sensibility?

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

Wasn't the VF-0 exactly that, a reimagination of the VF-1 but with Kawamori's newer, CG oriented design sensibility?

In some ways, it looks that way. I sure thought so , initially.  But the VF-0 does have that rounder , bulkier look about it that edges closer to the F-14 , IMO. Which gives the VF-1 a more refined and sleeker look, ultimately. 

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, aurance said:

If Kawamori had made the VF-1 today, how different would it be stylistically? Is it possible to guess? I'm thinking it would have had clear sensor bits in the nosecone area, since he seems to like putting them in every valk since then including VF-0.

Back when Macross Zero was in production, Kawamori answered basically this exact question in a column he wrote for Character Model magazine.

For that column, he put forward two different designs that were his modern takes on the VF-1 Valkyrie: the SW-XA1 Schneeblume and SW-XAII Schneegans:

 

As you can see, the SW-XA1 isn't much different to the VF-1 Valkyrie we're familiar with from the 1980's.  It was nearly the same aircraft, though you can see a number of areas of its design changed to accommodate passively stealthy design changes and other more modern touches.  You can't see it on this particular spread, but one of the touches was having a pair of internal missile bays in the outside of the leg in place of underwing pylons.

The SW-XAII is a more radical design that is more reminiscent of Kawamori's later designs for the VF-25, VF-27, and especially YF-29.  (There are hints that this is not an accidental relationship, including a YF-29 in the Schneegans's white-and-green colors on page 27 of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah.)

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[aurance]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Back when Macross Zero was in production, Kawamori answered basically this exact question in a column he wrote for Character Model magazine.

For that column, he put forward two different designs that were his modern takes on the VF-1 Valkyrie: the SW-XA1 Schneeblume and SW-XAII Schneegans:

 

As you can see, the SW-XA1 isn't much different to the VF-1 Valkyrie we're familiar with from the 1980's.  It was nearly the same aircraft, though you can see a number of areas of its design changed to accommodate passively stealthy design changes and other more modern touches.  You can't see it on this particular spread, but one of the touches was having a pair of internal missile bays in the outside of the leg in place of underwing pylons.

The SW-XAII is a more radical design that is more reminiscent of Kawamori's later designs for the VF-25, VF-27, and especially YF-29.  (There are hints that this is not an accidental relationship, including a YF-29 in the Schneegans's white-and-green colors on page 27 of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah.)

 

Oh wow that is sweet. Definitely see more of those real life 5th gen influences as well as Kawamori’s style evolution.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 8/20/2021 at 7:31 PM, aurance said:

Oh wow that is sweet. Definitely see more of those real life 5th gen influences as well as Kawamori’s style evolution.

Both Stealth Wing X designs there are presented with an (unofficial) in-universe setting of them being stealth technology evaluation airframes that were prototyping a passive stealth VF that would operate in tandem with the passive stealth-focused VF-17 Nightmare.  Presumably the Stealth Wing X would be an unrealized 3rd Generation VF since the subject of the passively (and actively) stealthy Next Main Fighter was resolved some time after the VF-17's introduction in the form of Project Super Nova (Macross Plus).  

Real world influences aside, the unofficial setting for the Stealth Wing X designs seems to exist in that weird developmental moment that spawned the VF-17, where radar systems had caught up to the 2nd Generation active stealth systems in use at the time and it was necessary to have greater emphasis on passive stealth technology.  3rd Generation active stealth's introduction tipped the scales back into active stealth's favor, somewhere around the time the VF-19 2nd mass production type rolled out, reducing the need for internal storage of a VF's weaponry.  (3rd Gen active stealth is why we see the VF-171 and VF-25 having gone back to hanging large numbers of missiles and other hardware from the wings, though some sources e.g. Master File assert that the 5th Gen VFs also included new passive stealth design choices meant to foil fold wave radars incl. fold wave-absorbent materials.)