Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Master Dex]

Frankly I like these colors more, and the new supers are much better.. I might actually get one now. (I have a 31F and 31A but no supers or armors).

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Frankly I like these colors more, and the new supers are much better.. I might actually get one now. (I have a 31F and 31A but no supers or armors).

Eh... I'm still not sold on the VF-31's FAST Packs in general.  IMO, its Armored Pack is still the fugliest thing Kawamori has ever drawn.

As an addendum to previous posts, I did screw up the translation of the final two sentences of the note on Chuck's... Parmenides is apparently the affiliation of the aircraft.  Unclear if it's a ship, base, etc. at this time (the text offers no hints).  

 

EDIT: Can anyone actually read the word "PARMENIDES" on that art?  I sure as hell can't and am starting to feel like I need glasses or something.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[Master Dex]

8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... I'm still not sold on the VF-31's FAST Packs in general.  IMO, its Armored Pack is still the fugliest thing Kawamori has ever drawn.

As an addendum to previous posts, I did screw up the translation of the final two sentences of the note on Chuck's... Parmenides is apparently the affiliation of the aircraft.  Unclear if it's a ship, base, etc. at this time (the text offers no hints).  

 

EDIT: Can anyone actually read the word "PARMENIDES" on that art?  I sure as hell can't and am starting to feel like I need glasses or something.

I feel ya on the supers in the show thus far, and the armored indeed. No bueno. I like how these are laid out more though, seems a bit more like the VF-25 Supers. 

I didn't notice the name placement until it was brought up recently but I admit I wouldn't have known that's what it says on the tail without being told first. So not just you lol.

[Seto Kaiba]

55 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

I didn't notice the name placement until it was brought up recently but I admit I wouldn't have known that's what it says on the tail without being told first. So not just you lol.

TBH, I didn't notice there was a word written there at all.  It's so indistinct in the pics we've seen that it looks like a smudge.

[pengbuzz]

8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

TBH, I didn't notice there was a word written there at all.  It's so indistinct in the pics we've seen that it looks like a smudge.

I hate to ask, but link for pics? Couldn't find the box art in question (me dinosaur, rawr...)

[Seto Kaiba]

11 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

I hate to ask, but link for pics? Couldn't find the box art in question (me dinosaur, rawr...)

7 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

[pengbuzz]

17 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

Greatly appreciated, my friend!

And yeah...looking at that, it almost looks like it says "meningitis", not "parmenides".

[no3Ljm]

Is it just me or they’re running out of fresh designs and transforming sequence for the hero Valks? Or they’re just saving it for the next series? Assuming that there will be another one?

 

[Seto Kaiba]

I don't think they're running out of ideas... I think, to an extent, they're justified in not rolling out tons of new designs every time like Gundam does because it's just insane to have so many different models in a military environment.  I do think, apropos of nothing in particular, that Kawamori did not bring his A-game to Macross Delta because he knew it was going to be focused mainly on the idols.

EDIT: Which I'm still OK with, because the YF-30 was a beautiful plane and a production derivative is just as beautiful.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

I like the new look. Curious as to the supers  new (if any) output levels , and any upgrades to the VF itself. 
The 31 isn't my favorite valk. But it's still quite flash, imo. I do agree with you @Seto Kaiba ,they are variant barraging us with 31's at this point tho- I might need a mask if they keep it up. From the exhaust fumes, of course 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I like the new look. Curious as to the supers  new (if any) output levels , and any upgrades to the VF itself. 

Can't imagine it'll change too much.  The existing customizations made to the VF-31 Kairos airframe to create the Siegfried custom were already pushing the airframe to its structural limits.  That's why Hayate was getting browbeaten by Makina and the hangar crew in the TV series.  His rough handling of his Siegfried was making a lot of extra work for the hangar crews.  

It'll be interesting to see if there are actually six members of Delta Flight in the second movie.  Messer's dead in either version, so they need a new Delta 02 and whoever Delta 06 is... probably Bogue Con-vaart.  Xaos has to have sunk a pretty substantial fortune into Delta Flight's machines at this point.  Depending on how it shakes out, they've bought either six or seven Kairos units for conversion into Siegfrieds, and a king's ransom in fold quartz to construct six (or seven) fold wave systems.  Given how the fold quartz to make one YF-29 was a massive spend for the Frontier fleet, Delta Flight alone could possibly represent a bigger investment than the half dozen or so platoons of VF-25s SMS was operating on its borrowed aircraft carrier in Frontier.

(I still say it was a huge missed opportunity not to have Keith defect and take up Messer's Delta 02.)

 

2 minutes ago, Bolt said:

The 31 isn't my favorite valk. But it's still quite flash, imo. I do agree with you @Seto Kaiba ,they are variant barraging us with 31's at this point tho- I might need a mask if they keep it up. From the exhaust fumes, of course 

Depends how you wanna split it?  I mean, there are only really three versions of the VF-31 thus far.  The mass production Kairos type (AKA "Best VF-31"), the Xaos ace custom Siegfried type from the TV series and first movie, and this modified Siegfried type (name pending) for the second movie.  Everything else is basically the usual assortment of redecos and variant heads we get on every model of VF so we can't really hold THAT against them.

[AN/ALQ128]

4 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Is it just me or they’re running out of fresh designs and transforming sequence for the hero Valks? Or they’re just saving it for the next series? Assuming that there will be another one?

 

There's only so many ways you can skin a cat, as the saying goes. Personally, as long as the fighter and battroid modes look cool, I'm not too fussed if Kawamori reuses design elements,

That said, we've yet to see the transformation sequence for that mystery VF...

[Master Dex]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Can't imagine it'll change too much.  The existing customizations made to the VF-31 Kairos airframe to create the Siegfried custom were already pushing the airframe to its structural limits.  That's why Hayate was getting browbeaten by Makina and the hangar crew in the TV series.  His rough handling of his Siegfried was making a lot of extra work for the hangar crews.  

It'll be interesting to see if there are actually six members of Delta Flight in the second movie.  Messer's dead in either version, so they need a new Delta 02 and whoever Delta 06 is... probably Bogue Con-vaart.  Xaos has to have sunk a pretty substantial fortune into Delta Flight's machines at this point.  Depending on how it shakes out, they've bought either six or seven Kairos units for conversion into Siegfrieds, and a king's ransom in fold quartz to construct six (or seven) fold wave systems.  Given how the fold quartz to make one YF-29 was a massive spend for the Frontier fleet, Delta Flight alone could possibly represent a bigger investment than the half dozen or so platoons of VF-25s SMS was operating on its borrowed aircraft carrier in Frontier.

(I still say it was a huge missed opportunity not to have Keith defect and take up Messer's Delta 02.)

If 06 is Bogue.. it could be part of a treaty arrangement and Windermere is providing fold quartz to Xaos... cause they did kinda lose a war... badly. Also Windermere doesn't have much other bargaining power with it's sorry economy.. might as well trade in Fold Quartz. Question is, is NUNG overseeing that or is Xaos skirting laws? .... Again....

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

If 06 is Bogue.. it could be part of a treaty arrangement and Windermere is providing fold quartz to Xaos... cause they did kinda lose a war... badly. Also Windermere doesn't have much other bargaining power with it's sorry economy.. might as well trade in Fold Quartz. Question is, is NUNG overseeing that or is Xaos skirting laws? .... Again....

As sloppy as the writing has been on Macross Delta, I almost expect the fact to go completely unacknowledged.

Strategic Military Services only avoided criminal penalties for desertion and piracy during the closing stages of the Vajra war because they were the ones who exposed the Galaxy fleet's conspiracy and Leon Mishima's involvement in the assassination of Frontier President Howard Glass.

Xaos and Lady M don't have a similar Get Out Of Jail Free card when it comes to the fact that Lady M and Xaos have been outed as guilty of at least a twofer in that they broke New UN Government laws restricting the use of cloning technology by creating a clone soldier... from DNA obtained from an illegally-exported religious artifact obtained when Lady M's contact (Wright Immelmann) burgled a shrine.  I'm going to be kind of annoyed if Xaos doesn't face some blowback for that from both the New UN Gov't and Kingdom of the Wind.  Engaging in black market trade in fold quartz should bring the New UN Government down on them like a storm.  

Then again, considering what a pig's ear Xaos made of the Brisingr globular cluster's defenses by refusing to cooperate with the New UN Forces, it's kind of hard to believe anyone would trust them ever again.

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As sloppy as the writing has been on Macross Delta, I almost expect the fact to go completely unacknowledged.

Strategic Military Services only avoided criminal penalties for desertion and piracy during the closing stages of the Vajra war because they were the ones who exposed the Galaxy fleet's conspiracy and Leon Mishima's involvement in the assassination of Frontier President Howard Glass.

Xaos and Lady M don't have a similar Get Out Of Jail Free card when it comes to the fact that Lady M and Xaos have been outed as guilty of at least a twofer in that they broke New UN Government laws restricting the use of cloning technology by creating a clone soldier... from DNA obtained from an illegally-exported religious artifact obtained when Lady M's contact (Wright Immelmann) burgled a shrine.  I'm going to be kind of annoyed if Xaos doesn't face some blowback for that from both the New UN Gov't and Kingdom of the Wind.  Engaging in black market trade in fold quartz should bring the New UN Government down on them like a storm.  

Then again, considering what a pig's ear Xaos made of the Brisingr globular cluster's defenses by refusing to cooperate with the New UN Forces, it's kind of hard to believe anyone would trust them ever again.

So if Xaos and Lady M are in hot water, what does that mean for Hayate and the rest of Delta Flight? Is the New UN Gov't going after simply the heads of Xaos ,or the organization as a whole? I also imagine that Hayate's career could come under question given his father's activities on the behalf of Lady M/ Xaos (as if it hasn't aleady). I know he's not his dad, but it would definitely cast a pall on him.

Just a couple of things bumping around in my mind.

[twich]

Maybe the new “enemy” is the New UN Spacy. The drone fighter that harassed the new VF-31A’s belonging to Chuck and Mirage seemed to give them a lot more trouble than a few Lil Drakens did, could be earth based tech that is more powerful than we could know(ala speculation that earth spec VF-24 has Uber stats)….who knows, guess we will all find out when the new delta movie releases/streams/beams into our heads via mind probe

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

So if Xaos and Lady M are in hot water, what does that mean for Hayate and the rest of Delta Flight?

Probably not a lot... as far as we know, nobody in Delta Flight was a party to Wright Immelmann's crimes on Windermere IV or Xaos's creation of an illegal clone soldier (Mikumo).

Of course, this presumes that the writers aren't simply going to lazily forget that Windermere IV knows Lady M violated interstellar law or inexplicably maintain perfect secrecy on a subject like that.

 

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Is the New UN Gov't going after simply the heads of Xaos ,or the organization as a whole?

Assuming that the New UN Government does actually go after Xaos for its illegal cloning experiments, they'd probably go after Lady M as the ringleader and anyone involved in the experiments themselves.  

For the rest of Xaos, if it works anything like the real world, it probably means another mandatory corporate training class about how and when to report activities that may violate the law.  An irritating and entirely transitory inconvenience at best.

 

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I also imagine that Hayate's career could come under question given his father's activities on the behalf of Lady M/ Xaos (as if it hasn't aleady). I know he's not his dad, but it would definitely cast a pall on him.

He's definitely not going to win any friends or admirers on Windermere IV as the son of the man (only partly) responsible for the worst wartime atrocity in Windermere IV's history.

That said, even the Kingdom of the Wind made no effort to hold him responsible for his father's actions when he was captured in the TV series.  The only charges against him when he, Mirage, and Freyja stood trial were armed incursion into Windermere IV's territory, aggravated assault, and one charge that is a weird combination of blasphemy and unlicensed operation of an aircraft.  Nothing about his father is even mentioned. 

There is one very interesting detail that got mentioned in passing in that trial scene that really should have SEVERE implications for Xaos as a whole, though.  After Freyja is charged with high treason, Mirage attempts to invoke the spacefuture version of the Third Geneva Convention and assert that their basic rights as prisoners of war are being violated.  She's flatly (and correctly!) informed that she is an unlawful combatant because she is not a uniformed soldier and therefore ineligible for the legal protections of being a prisoner of war.  It's the only time it's ever mentioned that Xaos as a whole are participating in the war illegally, as any civilian contractor who fought in a war would be.

 

44 minutes ago, twich said:

Maybe the new “enemy” is the New UN Spacy. The drone fighter that harassed the new VF-31A’s belonging to Chuck and Mirage seemed to give them a lot more trouble than a few Lil Drakens did, could be earth based tech that is more powerful than we could know(ala speculation that earth spec VF-24 has Uber stats)….who knows, guess we will all find out when the new delta movie releases/streams/beams into our heads via mind probe

The drone fighter we see in the trailer appears to have Delta Flight markings, though.

[pengbuzz]

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Probably not a lot... as far as we know, nobody in Delta Flight was a party to Wright Immelmann's crimes on Windermere IV or Xaos's creation of an illegal clone soldier (Mikumo).

Of course, this presumes that the writers aren't simply going to lazily forget that Windermere IV knows Lady M violated interstellar law or inexplicably maintain perfect secrecy on a subject like that.

 

Assuming that the New UN Government does actually go after Xaos for its illegal cloning experiments, they'd probably go after Lady M as the ringleader and anyone involved in the experiments themselves.  

For the rest of Xaos, if it works anything like the real world, it probably means another mandatory corporate training class about how and when to report activities that may violate the law.  An irritating and entirely transitory inconvenience at best.

 

He's definitely not going to win any friends or admirers on Windermere IV as the son of the man (only partly) responsible for the worst wartime atrocity in Windermere IV's history.

That said, even the Kingdom of the Wind made no effort to hold him responsible for his father's actions when he was captured in the TV series.  The only charges against him when he, Mirage, and Freyja stood trial were armed incursion into Windermere IV's territory, aggravated assault, and one charge that is a weird combination of blasphemy and unlicensed operation of an aircraft.  Nothing about his father is even mentioned. 

There is one very interesting detail that got mentioned in passing in that trial scene that really should have SEVERE implications for Xaos as a whole, though.  After Freyja is charged with high treason, Mirage attempts to invoke the spacefuture version of the Third Geneva Convention and assert that their basic rights as prisoners of war are being violated.  She's flatly (and correctly!) informed that she is an unlawful combatant because she is not a uniformed soldier and therefore ineligible for the legal protections of being a prisoner of war.  It's the only time it's ever mentioned that Xaos as a whole are participating in the war illegally, as any civilian contractor who fought in a war would be.

 

The drone fighter we see in the trailer appears to have Delta Flight markings, though.

Thanks for the clarification...that clears my questions up for the moment. I'm sure I'll have more though! lol

[Biomaster]

Time to revive this thread! Is there any official information on how was the Queaudluun-Rhea developed? Does it have any other Zentraedi armor lineage besides the Queaudluun-Rau, 'cause I could swear that shoulder cannon looks quite a bit like the one on the Nousjadeul-Ger. 

P. S. Klan best girl. 

[Master Dex]

I wasn't aware 2 weeks of inactivity constituted a revival over just another post lol. Guess it's subjective.

[sketchley]

18 minutes ago, Biomaster said:

Time to revive this thread! Is there any official information on how was the Queaudluun-Rhea developed? Does it have any other Zentraedi armor lineage besides the Queaudluun-Rau, 'cause I could swear that shoulder cannon looks quite a bit like the one on the Nousjadeul-Ger. 

P. S. Klan best girl. 

Quadoran-Rea development (TV ver.):

"Although it was the New Unified Forces that continues the Quadoran series by producing the Rhea series, as its complex structure wasn't suited for mass production from the start, the production number of this aircraft can be assessed as not being as many as the number of VF series aircraft. Also, as its manoeuvrability is united with its firepower and its performance is suitable for special missions, such as reconnaissance-in-force, its initial deployment was mainly to Marine Corps that were composed of Zentraadi soldiers. This aircraft was the same as its archetypal aircraft, and if seen from the entirety of the Unified Forces, then it was an extremely unusual aircraft."

http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/Fsms07aQuadoran-Rhea.php

 

Quadoran-Rea development (movie ver.):

"The Quadorah Rhea is a reproduced type of Roh that has had improvements with the latest technologies applied to it. The latest type, the "Rhea/56", is, in addition to S.M.S.'s Pixy Squadron, extensively deployed."

http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/TFsms05aQrheaVB6Monster.php

※ from the movie ver. data, we can infer that it is a General Galaxy production.

 

As for the lineage:

Quadoran-Rō* → Quadoran-Aruma → Quadoran-Kiruka → Quadoran-Rea

* and Quadoran-Nona sub-variant

※ while it's not clearly indicated, the large beam gun on the VBP-1/VA-110 Neo-Gurāji *may* have influenced the development and addition of the shoulder gun on the Quadoran-Rea.  The "enemy Battle Suit" from Macross Plus *may* also have influenced the Quadoran-Rea's development, too.

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by sketchley

[Biomaster]

24 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

I wasn't aware 2 weeks of inactivity constituted a revival over just another post lol. Guess it's subjective.

You know how it is, some call necroposting when a thread is inactive for just a few days... happened on other forums. 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Biomaster said:

Time to revive this thread! Is there any official information on how was the Queaudluun-Rhea developed? Does it have any other Zentraedi armor lineage besides the Queaudluun-Rau, 'cause I could swear that shoulder cannon looks quite a bit like the one on the Nousjadeul-Ger. 

P. S. Klan best girl. 

Long story short, the New UN Forces captured a Quimeliquola automated factory satellite and relocated it to orbit of Eden, then contracted General Galaxy to restore/repair it.

General Galaxy used what they learned from repairing the factory satellite to develop a modernized/improved version of the Queadluun-Rau and also applied some of what they learned to the YF-21.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Long story short, the New UN Forces captured a Quimeliquola automated factory satellite and relocated it to orbit of Eden, then contracted General Galaxy to restore/repair it.

General Galaxy used what they learned from repairing the factory satellite to develop a modernized/improved version of the Queadluun-Rau and also applied some of what they learned to the YF-21.

Did UN Spacy try to replicate the satellite after repairing/ restoring it (as in, build more of them)? If so, that would explain the Three-Star Heavy Industry Factory Ships in the New Macross Colony Fleets.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Did UN Spacy try to replicate the satellite after repairing/ restoring it (as in, build more of them)? If so, that would explain the Three-Star Heavy Industry Factory Ships in the New Macross Colony Fleets.

The New UN Government has rather a lot of captured factory satellites.  More than twenty were captured in the postwar period and several more have been discovered and taken since.

It's highly probable that "lessons learned" from factory satellites WRT automation have been applied to factory ships like the Three Star type.

[Biomaster]

4 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The New UN Government has rather a lot of captured factory satellites.  More than twenty were captured in the postwar period and several more have been discovered and taken since.

It's highly probable that "lessons learned" from factory satellites WRT automation have been applied to factory ships like the Three Star type.

Hey, sorry for going offtopic, but why doesn't the mecha guide have a Delta section? I always look up the mecha before watching the show and for Delta there's a pretty big... nothing. Well, there's the Compendium but it lacks pictures, which I always thought were a neat feature over on macross2.net. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Biomaster

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Biomaster said:

Hey, sorry for going offtopic, but why doesn't the mecha guide have a Delta section? I always look up the mecha before watching the show and for Delta there's a pretty big... nothing. Well, there's the Compendium but it lacks pictures, which I always thought were a neat feature over on macross2.net. 

Ah, yes... I believe Mr March is working on Macross Delta content for the Macross Mecha Manual.  I'm not sure when it will go live.  I know his enthusiasm for Macross runs hot and cold where mine is kind of a constant low simmer.  I've been keeping the site's backend running, but I haven't been contributing to new content development for a while as a result of my day job and development of my own website project which has a scope that's incompatible with the Mecha Manual's.

[Master Dex]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah, yes... I believe Mr March is working on Macross Delta content for the Macross Mecha Manual.  I'm not sure when it will go live.  I know his enthusiasm for Macross runs hot and cold where mine is kind of a constant low simmer.  I've been keeping the site's backend running, but I haven't been contributing to new content development for a while as a result of my day job and development of my own website project which has a scope that's incompatible with the Mecha Manual's.

From what I've heard from March on discord and Facebook he is planning the Delta section to come out soonish. He's been stalled by a lack of proper line art or something.

Still eager to see that site of yours Seto, lol. I of all people can respect the job keeping one busy though.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, Master Dex said:

From what I've heard from March on discord and Facebook he is planning the Delta section to come out soonish. He's been stalled by a lack of proper line art or something.

That'd do it, yeah... I know it's a source of some frustration/irritation for him that Macross has sort of stopped publishing final line art in favor of using images of the CG models the animation actually uses.  So instead of scanning, cleaning up, and coloring the line art it's an effort to scan and clean up official pics of CG models which last he and I spoke wasn't quite as compelling artistically.

 

Just now, Master Dex said:

Still eager to see that site of yours Seto, lol. I of all people can respect the job keeping one busy though.

I really wanna get the framework for it launched before Super Dimension Con, at the very least.

I'm a good software engineer and a pretty good server admin, but I am a rubbish web developer so it takes for-freaking-ever since I'm re-teaching myself the latest versions of the various design technologies I'm using.

[Biomaster]

48 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Still eager to see that site of yours Seto

This here has intrigued me. Now that you @Seto Kaiba mentioned it, I'm looking forward to it going live as well. 

[Biomaster]

Me again, this time with a Delta related question. To which variant do the VF-171s seen there belong? They have the colors of the EX from Frontier yet they couldn't be the EX because they don't have MDE compatibility. I've heard something about a "Block III" which is essentially the EX engine and avionics update but without MDE or EX-Gear compatibility... could these NUNS VF-171s actually be Block IIIs rather than the older Block IIs we see in Frontier? 

[Seto Kaiba]

26 minutes ago, Biomaster said:

Me again, this time with a Delta related question. To which variant do the VF-171s seen there belong?

So... the official Macross website and the Bandai Mecha Colle model kit for the VF-171s in Macross Delta refer to that type as the "Remote Sector Specification" or "Frontier Sector Specification" (辺境宙域仕様).  The English text on the mecha colle kit translates that as "Rim World Model". 

One thing that was introduced around the time of Macross Frontier was the idea that when individual governments build VFs locally under license, they will sometimes modify the specs of those VFs to accommodate locally-available technologies or just better suit their perceived needs.  Depending on the severity of the changes, this led to either an all-new local variant (like the VF-19EF Caliburn) or a local specification of an existing variant.

The Delta VF-171s appear to be a local specification based on c.2055 VF-171 Block II.  (It's a reskin of the base VF-171 model from Macross Frontier.)

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Biomaster said:

They have the colors of the EX from Frontier yet they couldn't be the EX because they don't have MDE compatibility.

Similar coloration, but not the same.  The VF-171EX type is white, not khaki.

Also, being equipped with MDE weapons isn't a requirement of the VF-171EX specification.  Just the modifications to the aircraft itself like the adoption of the VF-25's ablative anti-beam coating, the improved engines, and cockpit retrofit to adopt EX-Gear.  In the Macross Delta gaiden manga Macross E, we see a Xaos branch operating VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX's without the MDE weapons package.

 

26 minutes ago, Biomaster said:

I've heard something about a "Block III" which is essentially the EX engine and avionics update but without MDE or EX-Gear compatibility... could these NUNS VF-171s actually be Block IIIs rather than the older Block IIs we see in Frontier? 

Block IIIF is the Macross Frontier movie upgrade version.  It got the same sensor and engine improvements, but did not adopt the remodeled cockpit, EX-Gear, or anti-beam coating that were present on the EX-type.  The movie-specific writeup to the IIIF type in Macross Chronicle treats the 30mm machine gun and MDE beam gun unit from the EX-type as part of the AAS-171 Armor Pack, describing it as a "composite weapon pack".  The AVM-11R anti-ship missile launcher mounted opposite is the same as the EX-type's as well.

Given that the Block IIIF was a Macross Frontier fleet original development, and that the Brisingr Alliance is... "economically troubled"... I think it's safe to assume that these are local spec versions of the Block II.

[Biomaster]

54 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So... the official Macross website and the Bandai Mecha Colle model kit for the VF-171s in Macross Delta refer to that type as the "Remote Sector Specification" or "Frontier Sector Specification" (辺境宙域仕様).  The English text on the mecha colle kit translates that as "Rim World Model". 

One thing that was introduced around the time of Macross Frontier was the idea that when individual governments build VFs locally under license, they will sometimes modify the specs of those VFs to accommodate locally-available technologies or just better suit their perceived needs.  Depending on the severity of the changes, this led to either an all-new local variant (like the VF-19EF Caliburn) or a local specification of an existing variant.

The Delta VF-171s appear to be a local specification based on c.2055 VF-171 Block II.  (It's a reskin of the base VF-171 model from Macross Frontier.)

 

 

 

Similar coloration, but not the same.  The VF-171EX type is white, not khaki.

Also, being equipped with MDE weapons isn't a requirement of the VF-171EX specification.  Just the modifications to the aircraft itself like the adoption of the VF-25's ablative anti-beam coating, the improved engines, and cockpit retrofit to adopt EX-Gear.  In the Macross Delta gaiden manga Macross E, we see a Xaos branch operating VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX's without the MDE weapons package.

 

Block IIIF is the Macross Frontier movie upgrade version.  It got the same sensor and engine improvements, but did not adopt the remodeled cockpit, EX-Gear, or anti-beam coating that were present on the EX-type.  The movie-specific writeup to the IIIF type in Macross Chronicle treats the 30mm machine gun and MDE beam gun unit from the EX-type as part of the AAS-171 Armor Pack, describing it as a "composite weapon pack".  The AVM-11R anti-ship missile launcher mounted opposite is the same as the EX-type's as well.

Given that the Block IIIF was a Macross Frontier fleet original development, and that the Brisingr Alliance is... "economically troubled"... I think it's safe to assume that these are local spec versions of the Block II.

Punctual and informative as always. Thanks! Now I honestly hope that the next Macross series (because let's face it, there will be at least one this decade) gives something new to the NUNS 'cause the VF-171 has been already used for two series straight and it's starting to feel boring with it as the main "redshirt" variable fighter. I know it's supposed to be a cheap export workhorse mecha (kinda like how the F-16 is a cheap export workhorse fighter in real life) but for gods' sake, at least give them the EX variant if nothing else. 

[Seto Kaiba]

38 minutes ago, Biomaster said:

Punctual and informative as always. Thanks! Now I honestly hope that the next Macross series (because let's face it, there will be at least one this decade) gives something new to the NUNS 'cause the VF-171 has been already used for two series straight and it's starting to feel boring with it as the main "redshirt" variable fighter. I know it's supposed to be a cheap export workhorse mecha (kinda like how the F-16 is a cheap export workhorse fighter in real life) but for gods' sake, at least give them the EX variant if nothing else. 

Unfortunately, the VF-171 is getting the same treatment the VF-11 got... where we were only introduced to it as its eventual successor was entering the final phases of testing.

To a certain extent, it's understandable that we're seeing a lot of it nevertheless since Delta was the second series in a row where we were introduced to a PMC that'd been hired to do operational evaluation testing on the next-generation fighter before it entered mass production and began to be phased into military service.  The VF-25 entered military service in the mid-2060s and the VF-31 is set to enter military service in 2069 or 2070, and even then it'll take YEARS to phase them in as squadrons undergo model conversion training in their respective local defense forces.  

All in all, the VF-171 is indicated in print materials at least to be an effective and highly versatile Valkyrie that balances respectable performance against impressive ease-of-use, so it's not surprising it's an attractive option.

[Biomaster]

22 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Unfortunately, the VF-171 is getting the same treatment the VF-11 got... where we were only introduced to it as its eventual successor was entering the final phases of testing.

To a certain extent, it's understandable that we're seeing a lot of it nevertheless since Delta was the second series in a row where we were introduced to a PMC that'd been hired to do operational evaluation testing on the next-generation fighter before it entered mass production and began to be phased into military service.  The VF-25 entered military service in the mid-2060s and the VF-31 is set to enter military service in 2069 or 2070, and even then it'll take YEARS to phase them in as squadrons undergo model conversion training in their respective local defense forces.  

All in all, the VF-171 is indicated in print materials at least to be an effective and highly versatile Valkyrie that balances respectable performance against impressive ease-of-use, so it's not surprising it's an attractive option.

Completely agree, though I guess the VF-11's presence didn't really become tiresome because it was introduced in the long time span between SDF and Plus, so by the time of 7 it was already reaching it's end of service in the NUNS. Frontier and Delta are, on the other hand, separated by just 8 years of time so it was kinda expected for the NUNS to keep using the 171 (hell, to once again reiterate on the "workhorse" parallels with the F-16, that sucker is approaching 50 years in service and there has been yet another avionics upgrade recently in the form of the block 70/72). From a variety standpoint however... Delta is severely lacking. We only got, what, the Kairos, the Siegfried variants which all are essentially the same fighter (because of the exchangeable modules thing) and the SV-262. We even didn't get the Svärd model from that one flashback photo in Battroid form. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Biomaster