Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

That's true, but even still a multi-role fighter is usually still a better fighter than it is anything else. You could dogfight with an F-105 or an F-4E, but those turned out to be better bombers than they were fighters, just as the F-16 is a better fighter than it is a bomber due to it's fairly limited payload compared to a B-1 or an A-10.

Granted, but we're not bombing naval ships that are only moving in two dimensions... this duty involves striking ships moving in three, which makes them more like really big, really slow enemy fighters than boats.

 

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

That's fair. It just doesn't seem like there's a lot of stand-off weapons used by VF's to accomplish missions like anti-ship attacks, in the way that we see more and more stand-off weapons being employed in real life. Every VF seems to be designed around close to medium range engagements.

All told, I think a big part of this has to do with the prevalence of powerful warship-based ECM, active stealth, and the use of laser and beam weaponry for point defense.

The farther away you launch your missile from, the greater your chances that your missile will either lose the target as ECM and/or active stealth interfere with its guidance systems or that it'll be identified and shot down by a point defense turret armed with lasers or beam weaponry.  Your best bet is to conceal your presence and get as close as possible before you launch to minimize the probability of intercept.

 

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

I meant large, low rate of fire, cannons. Gunpods are a standard armament that are aircraft cannons, designed for high ROF to increase probability of hit and therefore increase probability of kill. I wasn't necessarily restricting it to solid projectile cannons, but asking about beam weapons as well. Most VF equipment seems geared towards taking out VF sized things, but we've seen examples in history where large guns are mounted on aircraft to take on targets which otherwise are too much for conventional aircraft armaments (37mm autocannons, 105mm howitzers, 75mm cannons). And I was wondering if there were parallels.

That's mostly the domain of Strike Packs or the Konig Monster, then.

[kajnrig]

Hey, just a quick question. Way back when:

On 6/23/2016 at 10:29 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Airframe Design Load: 29.5g - This is probably actually the ISC output limit, since the VF-19 had a structural g-limit of over 35g and this is substantially tougher.

Was the Kairos and/or Siegfried's ISC rating ever confirmed in any way? I can't be bothered to go back through multiple pages of multiple threads to check.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Was the Kairos and/or Siegfried's ISC rating ever confirmed in any way? I can't be bothered to go back through multiple pages of multiple threads to check.

Yeah, they're using uprated versions of the same TO21 ISC used by the VF-25.

The original model provided with the VF-25 was rated for 27.5G (for 120sec).  The VF-31A Kairos's version is rated for 28.0G, and the VF-31 Custom Siegfried's is rated for 29.5G, both presumably for 120 seconds.

[Seto Kaiba]

Cleaning up around my study during isolation... I'd call my filing system pretty masterful in this case.

(This is just the shelf of doubles for Master Files...)

[Master Dex]

Extra time for all that translation work, lol.

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Extra time for all that translation work, lol.

I've been poking at the engine section in Battroid Valkyrie a bit between meetings.  It's interesting to see how radically the Master File writers assert the VF-1's engines changed during production.  Most VFs are lucky to get one engine upgrade in their entire service lives.  Master File asserts the VF-1 had AT LEAST FOUR.  The initial type FF-2001 engine on Blocks 1-5, FF-2006 on Blocks 6-8, FF-2008 on Blocks 9-17, and two more engine upgrades after mass production ended (FF-2012 for VF-1X, and FF-2079 for VF-1X+, and then whatever they put into the VF-1X++ stock model).

Anyone out there a network engineer looking for work?  I need two, possibly three.

[Mommar]

42 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I've been poking at the engine section in Battroid Valkyrie a bit between meetings.  It's interesting to see how radically the Master File writers assert the VF-1's engines changed during production.  Most VFs are lucky to get one engine upgrade in their entire service lives.  Master File asserts the VF-1 had AT LEAST FOUR.  The initial type FF-2001 engine on Blocks 1-5, FF-2006 on Blocks 6-8, FF-2008 on Blocks 9-17, and two more engine upgrades after mass production ended (FF-2012 for VF-1X, and FF-2079 for VF-1X+, and then whatever they put into the VF-1X++ stock model).

Anyone out there a network engineer looking for work?  I need two, possibly three.

That might make sense.  It was the first time they were trying to make a fighter function for long duration in space.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Mommar said:

That might make sense.  It was the first time they were trying to make a fighter function for long duration in space.

Rather ironically, the UN Spacy probably had a better/more suitable space fighter in the VF-0+ Phoenix Plus... a VF-0 retrofitted to take the VF-1's FF-2001 thermonuclear reaction turbine engine.  The VF-1's biggest problem in space operations was insufficient onboard fuel storage, and the much larger VF-0 doesn't have that problem... which was one reason that (in Master File, anyway) it was used for early space testing while equipped with the FF-1999 engines designed for the QF-3000.

[Bolt]

Thoroughly enjoyed that tid bit

[Falcon]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Rather ironically, the UN Spacy probably had a better/more suitable space fighter in the VF-0+ Phoenix Plus... a VF-0 retrofitted to take the VF-1's FF-2001 thermonuclear reaction turbine engine.  The VF-1's biggest problem in space operations was insufficient onboard fuel storage, and the much larger VF-0 doesn't have that problem... which was one reason that (in Master File, anyway) it was used for early space testing while equipped with the FF-1999 engines designed for the QF-3000.

So why did they stick to the VF-1 airframe instead of the VF-0? Is it the notion that the VF-1 is a smaller design and thus harder to hit? Would that mean that the VF-0 airframe was abandoned and never made again when the VF-1 went into production?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Falcon said:

So why did they stick to the VF-1 airframe instead of the VF-0? Is it the notion that the VF-1 is a smaller design and thus harder to hit?

It was actually motivated by Battroid mode.

One of the program goals of the Earth UN Forces' First Generation Variable Fighter program was to have the Battroid mode be close to the expected size of the alien giants (~10m), in order to fight them effectively in an infantry context and interact with them and/or their equipment.  Constraining the size of Battroid mode ultimately constrained the size of the VF-1 Valkyrie and its unsuccessful competitor the VF-X-2 to around the size of the F-16.  That, in turn, resulted in the VF's available internal space for fuel being too small for the VF to carry enough fuel for extended operations in space and made the addition of conformal fuel tanks and FAST Packs necessary.

Master File explains the larger size, and origins, of the VF-0 as being the OTM-enhanced F-14s being used as a starting point for VF development.  That proved to be convenient since that provided enough space for conventional jet fuel storage for short sorties when thermonuclear reaction turbine engine delivery was delayed.

 

1 hour ago, Falcon said:

Would that mean that the VF-0 airframe was abandoned and never made again when the VF-1 went into production?

Yeah.  They only ever built a few dozen VF-0s as technology demonstrators and evaluation airframes, and those were sidelined when production VF-1 Valkyries began to enter service in the UN Forces.  Master File alleges that some VF-0s were updated with the FF-2001 to become the VF-0+ Phoenix Plus and were stationed in places like Grand Cannon III, but almost all VF-0 airframes were lost in the orbital bombardment.  At least a few VF-0 airframes did survive the First Space War in storage, though.  Hakuna Aoba's VF-0改 "Zeak" in the Macross the Ride light novel is a surviving/existing VF-0 airframe that was extensively modified with YF-25 parts by Katori Brown-Robbins.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix also features an aircraft called "VF-0A The Nostalgia", a remanufactured/restored VF-0 produced by Shinsei Industry for the 25th Anniversary of the First Space War Armistice made using parts from two VF-0A airframes (No.7 and No.13) and fitted with a reproduction VF-0S monitor turret and painted in Roy Focker's iconic colors.

[pengbuzz]

On 3/19/2020 at 9:29 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It was actually motivated by Battroid mode.

One of the program goals of the Earth UN Forces' First Generation Variable Fighter program was to have the Battroid mode be close to the expected size of the alien giants (~10m), in order to fight them effectively in an infantry context and interact with them and/or their equipment.  Constraining the size of Battroid mode ultimately constrained the size of the VF-1 Valkyrie and its unsuccessful competitor the VF-X-2 to around the size of the F-16.  That, in turn, resulted in the VF's available internal space for fuel being too small for the VF to carry enough fuel for extended operations in space and made the addition of conformal fuel tanks and FAST Packs necessary.

Master File explains the larger size, and origins, of the VF-0 as being the OTM-enhanced F-14s being used as a starting point for VF development.  That proved to be convenient since that provided enough space for conventional jet fuel storage for short sorties when thermonuclear reaction turbine engine delivery was delayed.

But it never occurred to them that the craft the Zentraedi would be piloting would be bigger than their infantry (as we see when comparing a VF-1 Valk to a Regult). I wonder though if the later VF-1 engine upgrades eventually relieved the need for FAST packs?

  

On 3/19/2020 at 9:29 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah.  They only ever built a few dozen VF-0s as technology demonstrators and evaluation airframes, and those were sidelined when production VF-1 Valkyries began to enter service in the UN Forces.  Master File alleges that some VF-0s were updated with the FF-2001 to become the VF-0+ Phoenix Plus and were stationed in places like Grand Cannon III, but almost all VF-0 airframes were lost in the orbital bombardment.  At least a few VF-0 airframes did survive the First Space War in storage, though.  Hakuna Aoba's VF-0改 "Zeak" in the Macross the Ride light novel is a surviving/existing VF-0 airframe that was extensively modified with YF-25 parts by Katori Brown-Robbins.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix also features an aircraft called "VF-0A The Nostalgia", a remanufactured/restored VF-0 produced by Shinsei Industry for the 25th Anniversary of the First Space War Armistice made using parts from two VF-0A airframes (No.7 and No.13) and fitted with a reproduction VF-0S monitor turret and painted in Roy Focker's iconic colors.

Admittedly, I never liked the VF-0; it never really grew on me for some reason.

 

[JB0]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

I wonder though if the later VF-1 engine upgrades eventually relieved the need for FAST packs?

Nope. In space, there's really no substitute for having more stuff to throw out the back.

Throwing it faster helps, but not as much as having twice as much stuff to throw.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

But it never occurred to them that the craft the Zentraedi would be piloting would be bigger than their infantry (as we see when comparing a VF-1 Valk to a Regult).

It seems that it never occurred to them that the Zentradi wouldn't fight a conventional infantry war... rather than being a 100% mechanized force.

 

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

I wonder though if the later VF-1 engine upgrades eventually relieved the need for FAST packs? 

Not any of the ones that were introduced during its mass production run and service with the UN Forces and New UN Forces as a main variable fighter.

Hakuna Aoba's VF-1X++ custom may have gone a ways towards solving it by adopting the same, more efficient engine technology developed for 4th Generation VFs, but the VF-1 is really just too small to have significant endurance in space.

[jeniusornome]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that was one of the design principles for the vf-4 - space superiority, far better than a vf-1 with packs, even if it meant atmospheric performance was sacrificed. 

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, jeniusornome said:

I seem to recall reading somewhere that was one of the design principles for the vf-4 - space superiority, far better than a vf-1 with packs, even if it meant atmospheric performance was sacrificed. 

This is basically the in-universe justification for the VF-5000.

The VF-4 was built to emphasize space performance, and ended up being a better space fighter than the VF-1 Super Valkyrie was by a pretty significant margin.  The space focus in its design meant that its aerodynamics suffered somewhat and it wasn't nearly as agile in atmosphere... making it a poor choice for an all-regime main VF.  That led to it being supplemented by the atmosphere focused VF-5000.

[jeniusornome]

Is the VF-31D a thing, or did Aoshima just make it up for their VFG line?

related, how many uses of the orange and tan trainer color scheme have their been in the media? I can think of just three from the shows- VF-1D, VT-1 and the very brief appearance of a couple of VF-17Ts parked at New Edwards in a scene setting shot in Macross Plus.

other 2-seaters we’ve seen haven’t had this color scheme (or even been intended as trainers in the first place) although the orange YF-25 001 comes close. 

[Seto Kaiba]

55 minutes ago, jeniusornome said:

Is the VF-31D a thing, or did Aoshima just make it up for their VFG line?

As far as I can tell, the VF-31D Skuld is something that Aoshima invented for their VFG model kit.

There are only actually two variants of the Surya Aerospace VF-31: the VF-31A and VF-31B.

The VF-31A is the Brisingr Alliance New UN Forces' 5th Generation main variable fighter still in operational evaluation with the expendable civilian mooks of Xaos, similar to how SMS's services were contracted to test the VF-25 in live combat.  The VF-31B is indicated to also be a production version intended for military use, with a few hints being dropped that it may be a model conversion trainer.

Xaos's Siegfried customs are unique aircraft that were modified from trial production VF-31s.  It's implied in the series that they started out as VF-31As, as seen in the flashback episode where Arad is shown using a VF-31A with his distinctive livery.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried asserts instead that they were customized from YF-31s.

 

55 minutes ago, jeniusornome said:

related, how many uses of the orange and tan trainer color scheme have their been in the media?

The VF-1D and VT-1 are the only ones that leap to mind that are that specific orange and tan color scheme.

The VF-17T is orange and gloss white.  YF-19-3 "Bird of Prey" was also white with orange trim.  Master File's YF-19-4 had a reversed orange with white trim scheme.  Master File also has a YF-21-1 prototype that had an orange and white paintjob.  The YF-25 Prophecy¹ has a white, orange, and blue paintjob as well.  Master File also has a squadron paintjob for the SVX-12 "Moon Shooters" squadron where one of their VF-0-NF² units has an white and orange paintjob similar to the trainer scheme.  

 

 

1. Well, at least the three YF-25 units built in the Macross Frontier fleet... the one from Sephira that Reon Sakaki flies in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy is seafoam green and white instead.
2. The aforementioned VF-0 outfitted with the QF-3000's FF-1999 engines for space testing.

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

But it never occurred to them that the craft the Zentraedi would be piloting would be bigger than their infantry (...)

If memory serves, the VF-1 Battroid size was chose so humans would be able to meet and interact with the giant-sized Zentradi.  So, while being able to fight them was a requirement (a requirement that spawned the Destroids), that wasn't the only requirement of the Battroid.

Of course, that's the in-universe justification.  As we all know, Kawamori-san feels compelled to justify in the setting why giant (transforming) robots exist.  (E.g.: the dancing VF-171 in Delta to explain away why everyone isn't only using UCAV drones...)

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It seems that it never occurred to them that the Zentradi wouldn't fight a conventional infantry war... rather than being a 100% mechanized force.

  Given the ship that they found, you'd think they would have had someone there who would have foreseen that possibility.

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not any of the ones that were introduced during its mass production run and service with the UN Forces and New UN Forces as a main variable fighter.

Hakuna Aoba's VF-1X++ custom may have gone a ways towards solving it by adopting the same, more efficient engine technology developed for 4th Generation VFs, but the VF-1 is really just too small to have significant endurance in space.

And that brings up a point that continues from the first one in this post: space capability almost seems to be an afterthought with this fighter. One would think that with the intakes on the front, it would be able to pull reactants from the atmosphere in some manner. But in space, it would all depend upon whatever the mech had in its' tanks to run on. Now add in the Destroids being specifically ground-based, and that leads me to think that US Spacy believed the war to be one that would have been fought on Earth terrain and not in space with 5 million ships versus a planet, one battlefortress and whatever allies it could get via music.

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, sketchley said:

As we all know, Kawamori-san feels compelled to justify in the setting why giant (transforming) robots exist.  (E.g.: the dancing VF-171 in Delta to explain away why everyone isn't only using UCAV drones...)

Kawamori's answer to why unmanned fighters haven't displaced manned aircraft is a pretty simple one... it basically amounts to "Seen Macross Plus?  People know that sh*t happened in-universe.  Nobody wants to trust fully autonomous AI fighters after a first public demonstration like that."

 

 

12 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Given the ship that they found, you'd think they would have had someone there who would have foreseen that possibility.

I mean, do WE use giant fighting robots?  Nope.  They probably assumed that since the interior of the ship indicated its crew were at least humanoid, that they probably fought wars a lot like humans do... feet on the ground, the occasional fighter or armored fighting vehicle, y'know.

 

12 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

And that brings up a point that continues from the first one in this post: space capability almost seems to be an afterthought with this fighter.

The 1st Generation Variable Fighter concepts were intended for use in planetary defense rather than long-duration operations in deep space.

Variable Fighter Master File is the only source that offers us a detailed view of the Earth Unification Government's defense plans to resist an alien invasion, and the picture it paints is one of engaging the alien fleet in orbit with reaction weaponry and the Grand Canons while alien landing forces are contained and mopped up by troops from local military bases in the attacked region and five rapid reaction forces operating out of paired Daedalus-class and Prometheus-class ships.  The ARMD-class space carriers weren't conceived as ships, the original concept (in-universe) was that they would operate as orbital air bases.  It wasn't until they started properly formulating how they were going to convert the alien starship for use as a defense warship that some bright soul concluded that all that really needed to be done to convert this orbiting air base into an aircraft carrier was attach some engines and install a navigational bridge.

So the initial generation of VFs that were designed around the requirements from this era didn't need a ton of onboard fuel capacity.  They were expected to operate in the Earth's atmosphere or at most up in a high orbit as part of the planet's space defenses.  Even operating in deep space wasn't really much of a consideration, since they were expected to be within close range of their home carrier as part of its air defense.

 

12 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

One would think that with the intakes on the front, it would be able to pull reactants from the atmosphere in some manner.

Not reactants, but they use intake air to produce thrust the same way as a conventional jet engine would.

 

12 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Now add in the Destroids being specifically ground-based, and that leads me to think that US Spacy believed the war to be one that would have been fought on Earth terrain and not in space with 5 million ships versus a planet, one battlefortress and whatever allies it could get via music.

Yup... though it's UN, not US.

A lot of the Earth UN Government's assumptions about space warfare proved to be... disastrously wrong.  Of course, it's not like they had any way to know that space warfare in their universe firmly believed that "a million is a statistic" and was fought between two clone armies with nigh-inexhaustible resources.  They were clearly hoping for something more like Star Wars, Starship Troopers, or even Star Trek: Deep Space Nine where fleets of a few hundred ships at most batter each other to bits while ground forces struggle to capture and hold terrain.  Instead, they found themselves dealing with an enemy that didn't really care about holding terrain and wasn't shy about destroying planets.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yup... though it's UN, not US.

lol Sorry...late night and I was replying on two different forums. Guess someone on another site is wondering what "UN Air Force" is. O.o

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by pengbuzz

[sketchley]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Kawamori's answer to why unmanned fighters haven't displaced manned aircraft is a pretty simple one... it basically amounts to "Seen Macross Plus?  People know that sh*t happened in-universe.  Nobody wants to trust fully autonomous AI fighters after a first public demonstration like that."

I'm not disagreeing with that.  However, he makes these shows for the casual observer, not the die-hard fans.  Thus his need to justify the existence of giant transforming planes while establishing the setting of each new series.

There's also the possibility that he's so busy with other projects, that he forgets what was established in previous series (E.g.: "Which show did I put that idea into?"), and he's also doing the justification for himself.

[jeniusornome]

Re: specifically that scene in ep.1 of Delta... idunno, if a guy piloting a plane that turns into a robot so he could use sweet dance moves to trip up a space giant piloting an egg with arms and legs needs to be justified, I think that's thinking too hard about it.

We are talking about a sci-fi anime series with space giants, galactic whales, universal bunnies, interdimensional bugs and singing sci-fi magical girls. "Because of course the plane transforms. Why wouldn't it?"

Unrelated/related: I had hoped that scene would be a preview of "ridiculous dancing mecha action" all through the series, but I feel like the first few episodes set up a show that played out significantly different from how I'd expected.

[Valkyrie Driver]

45 minutes ago, jeniusornome said:

Unrelated/related: I had hoped that scene would be a preview of "ridiculous dancing mecha action" all through the series, but I feel like the first few episodes set up a show that played out significantly different from how I'd expected.

You’re not alone. Most of us feel that way.

[sketchley]

1 hour ago, jeniusornome said:

Re: specifically that scene in ep.1 of Delta...

As my point isn't being conveyed correctly, here's the horse's mouth:

• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/OTgreatMechanics/GMg2016sprng.php
• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/OTgreatMechanics/GMg2016smmr.php

Edited March 22, 2020 by sketchley

[jeniusornome]

hmm. I guess I see what you're saying, though I don't see anything in there that specifically calls that scene. The technical part reads more like both a general explanation of the three modes (for someone new) and a detailed description of transformation design (for srs fans). Sort of an odd split there.

Interesting to see how the colors for Delta Squad's jets were listed. In show and in toy/model format the colors are a printer cartridge (CMYK). I had just assumed they were trying to come up with a color scheme when someone in the office said they ran out of toner...

Anyways, thanks for the translations! Interesting read. I've got a lot to look through now.

Next show, let's see some orange, purple and green VFs!

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, sketchley said:

There's also the possibility that he's so busy with other projects, that he forgets what was established in previous series (E.g.: "Which show did I put that idea into?"), and he's also doing the justification for himself.

It's definitely that one.  There've been a fair few occasions in interviews where he clearly did not remember plot points from previous Macross titles when the interviewer asked about them.

It's one reason I don't take his stance on things completely seriously.  He changes his stance on things A LOT depending on how much he remembers about a subject on any given day.

 

 

11 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

Unrelated/related: I had hoped that scene would be a preview of "ridiculous dancing mecha action" all through the series, but I feel like the first few episodes set up a show that played out significantly different from how I'd expected.

Yeah, I think pretty much anyone who was watching Macross Delta expecting some kickass mecha action was pretty disappointed after the first two or so episodes.  We got promised some sweet mecha dance-battling and what we got was an "elite" unit of mercenary fighter pilots who know exactly one maneuver.

Spoiler

Mind you, even the supposed eliteness of Delta Flight didn't really hold up under examination.  Instead of being a private army staffed with the best of the best recruited away from the New UN Forces through sheer force of sh*tloads of money, Xaos's elite are the washouts from the local New UN Forces who quit due to traumatic experiences and/or simply failing to live up to expectations.  It says a lot that about the quality of the troops that their top ace was a guy who quit the military to stalk a failed idol singer and their flight leader was a junior officer whose one military tour of duty was spent on a glorified punishment posting to the most remote and boring planet in known space.

 

 

2 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

Interesting to see how the colors for Delta Squad's jets were listed. In show and in toy/model format the colors are a printer cartridge (CMYK). I had just assumed they were trying to come up with a color scheme when someone in the office said they ran out of toner...

At least Delta Flight is more reliable than most color printers... they didn't crap out and refuse to fly because they ran out of Cyan in episode 13.

 

 

2 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

Next show, let's see some orange, purple and green VFs!

Play Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy and behold the splendor that is PLAID VFs!

(That is not a joke, BTW... it's an actual option for several VFs including the YF-29.)

[Lexomatic]

On 3/19/2020 at 9:29 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

One of the program goals of the Earth UN Forces' First Generation Variable Fighter program was to have the Battroid mode be close to the expected size of the alien giants (~10m), in order to fight them effectively in an infantry context and interact with them and/or their equipment. 

That's the in-setting justification for toyetic transforming jets. Now for the SDF-1 -- was any reason ever advanced for it being able to transform? The need is explained as "to fire the gun, there's a gap to be bridged" but there are unrelated elements to the transformation (shoulders, two halves of the bridge/head). If the ship didn't already have giant servomechanisms, then "relocate the reaction heat-pile" would seem to be an engineering task of the same magnitude. (The Robotech explanation of "Protoculture makes everything want to transform" is one of many checks the script writes that the inherited footage can't cash, given the lack of transformation evinced by three generations of Protoculture-using adversaries.)

For that matter, is there any document(s) for capital ships comparable to the Master Files for fighter jets? (I'm guessing "no" because such a series would necessarily include the SDF-1, and apart from the increased structural complexity ("do we want to include a map of Macross City?"), it would have to explain the blatant impossibilities of scale depicted in SDFM. --The same way Space Battleship Yamato has a First Bridge the size of a tennis court on a ship that, by authorial fiat, is only 285 meters long. Or else bypass by discussing only the DYRL version.)

Edited March 22, 2020 by Lexomatic
+Reasons for guess "no".

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, Lexomatic said:

That's the in-setting justification for toyetic transforming jets. Now for the SDF-1 -- was any reason ever advanced for it being able to transform?

Macross Perfect Memory suggests that the Supervision Army warship that became the SDF-1 Macross was built with a modular design to improve its overall survivability.

The goal was presumably to decentralize certain key systems to prevent battle damage to one area from disabling the entire ship, enable a limited form of repair by replacing modules instead of whole ships, and facilitate working around battle damage to systems that couldn't be decentralized.

 

31 minutes ago, Lexomatic said:

For that matter, is there any document(s) for capital ships comparable to the Master Files for fighter jets? (I'm guessing "no" because such a series would necessarily include the SDF-1, and apart from the increased structural complexity ("do we want to include a map of Macross City?"), it would have to explain the blatant impossibilities of scale depicted in SDFM. --The same way Space Battleship Yamato has a First Bridge the size of a tennis court on a ship that, by authorial fiat, is only 285 meters long. Or else bypass by discussing only the DYRL version.)

Variable Fighter Master File does occasionally include segments that talk about certain important classes of ship like the Asuka II-class, Prometheus-class, ARMD-class, and so on.  It's not significant coverage (just a few pages, usually), but it's something.  The Squadrons of the SDF-1 Macross book offers more detail about the Macross herself, but it's mostly in terms of its carrier operations and defense strategies.

Gundam's Master Archive Mobile Suit series did something similar for the Pegasus-class assault carrier White Base.

[jeniusornome]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Play Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy and behold the splendor that is PLAID VFs!

(That is not a joke, BTW... it's an actual option for several VFs including the YF-29.)

Well, that’s going on my list right now.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, jeniusornome said:

Well, that’s going on my list right now.

Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy has several other interesting technological attractions too.  Such as:

• The Gefion, a light aircraft carrier based on the Macross Frontier version of the Northampton-class stealth frigate that serves as the mobile headquarters for the SMS branch that's operating on Uroboros.
• VF-0s and SV-51s with thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.  The novelization and some of the writeups indicate these are replica aircraft that were built using later tech from the VF-1 and VF-5000.
• The Double Strike Pack.  We always knew it was theoretically possible, but it's actually a playable option once you unlock it.  A VF-1 Strike Valkyrie with two Mauler RO-X2A beam cannons instead of one, and with a SP attack that is straight out of Dragon Ball Z.
• A version of the Zentradi armored spacesuit from Super Dimension Fortress Macross that is a flight-capable powered suit.
• The first main character VF-11 since Macross Plus.
• The first non-Macross Frontier YF-25 (from the Sephira SMS).
• The first official-setting depiction of an actual VF-19E (Aisha's).
• The first depiction of a non-Macross Galaxy VF-27 Lucifer.
• A military spec YF-29, Rod Baltemar's YF-29B Perceval.
• The YF-30 Chronos.

[Valkyrie Driver]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Double Strike Pack.  We always knew it was theoretically possible, but it's actually a playable option once you unlock it.  A VF-1 Strike Valkyrie with two Mauler RO-X2A beam cannons instead of one, and with a SP attack that is straight out of Dragon Ball Z

If I had a second Yamato VF-1 v2 strike set, I would totally do this.

 

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The first official-setting depiction of an actual VF-19E (Aisha's).

I would buy a DX Chogokin release of this. I don’t care that it’s pink...

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

A military spec YF-29, Rod Baltemar's YF-29B Perceval.

I have this toy and it’s pretty cool. Gone a bit loose in the joints, but it’s neat to have...

[sketchley]

14 hours ago, Lexomatic said:

That's the in-setting justification for toyetic transforming jets. Now for the SDF-1 -- was any reason ever advanced for it being able to transform? (...)

That reason for the ability is semi-explained by two things:

• 1) modularity inherent in the ship
• 2) the self-repair ability of Zentradi ships (and by extension, Supervision Forces & Protoculture ships)

1) crops up again and again in later series—especially in regards to the Macross ships (for example, the Macross Quarter is described as being 5 separate ships)

2) doors that automatically slam shut are repeatedly shown in SDFM.  How did the designers know that the ship would be shot exactly there?  It's more likely that there are hydraulics and other actuators that move them to the damaged areas.

 

I must stress that the above is tenuous and not described in detail anywhere, but it is a logical extrapolation from what we are shown in the TV series.

 

Quote

For that matter, is there any document(s) for capital ships comparable to the Master Files for fighter jets? (...)

Officially, no.

Unofficially... there's the dojinshi series "銀河の戦艦” put out by 太陽帝国 (aka FANKY).  They've produced 4 books so far.

• Refer to 023 to 026 here: http://www.cwo.zaq.ne.jp/bface700/hakobutu_n_0.html
• Here's a brief glimpse of the interior: http://www.cwo.zaq.ne.jp/bface700/14win/gs01.html

I've been poking around at translating their content (the stuff in brown text in the following.  As well as the "to do list" at their very bottoms):

• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/ZentPicket.php
• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/StandardBattleship.php
• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/MediumGunboat.php
• http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/ZentraadiShips/LandingShip.php (in blue text at time of writing - indicated with *dojinshi)

 

There are no maps of the city inside any of the Macross ships.  You'll have to refer to Palladium Book's "Macross II Deckplans Vol. 3" for those (as those books were written by Dream Pod 9, they're quality [especially the research!] is at a higher level than the norm for Palladium. ).

Edited March 23, 2020 by sketchley

[Bolt]

12 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Double Strike Pack.  We always knew it was theoretically possible, but it's actually a playable option once you unlock it.  A VF-1 Strike Valkyrie with two Mauler RO-X2A beam cannons instead of one, and with a SP attack that is straight out of Dragon Ball Z.

Double strike rocks

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Bolt