Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, DWN013 said:

In MF episode 1, Gilliam jettisons his super pack to pursue the red soldier Vajra into Island one (as he will need to fly in-atmosphere) and is visually carrying nothing but his gunpod.  However, when he first attacks the vajra, he clearly does so with missiles that resemble the AMM-101. 

 

Excellent points!

That particular scene caused a lot of confusion regarding internal weapon bays.  Which was made worse when the official materials stated that the VF-25 doesn't have any (never mind the Valkyrie trend of internal weapon bays up until that point).

Your explanation is the best I've come across to explain that sequence (it's fundamentally an animation error.  Albeit one unexpectedly  caused by a CG modelling error).

[DWN013]

Yeah, it's a shame Satellite never modeled any underwing ordnance for the 25, which is really odd because they did model ordnance for the 117 in episode 1.  I really love the PACSWS-1G that we see in M30 and Master File, thing's like an AIM-54 Phoenix on mega-steroids.

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, DWN013 said:

I was reading a thread on here a while ago, discussing the VF-31A's useless drone charger that is featured on both the Bandai DX and Satellite's in-show model.  Someone made the excellent point that Satellite was not 'valk-accurate' in this case, as why the hell would the VF-31A carry the dead weight of a drone charger.

Since the only VF-31A Kairos units we see in Macross Delta are the OPEVAL/trial production units operated by the other three flights in Χάος Ragna branch's 3rd Fighter Wing, I'm not sure that I'd say the multidrone chargers are necessarily deadweight.  The 3rd Fighter Wing operates from the carrier Macross Elysion - Walkure's mobile HQ - and are only ever seen sortieing in support of the Tactical Sound Unit and its protection detail (Delta Flight).

It wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to outfit them with multidrone chargers so they can recharge Walkure's Cygnus multidrone plates in the event Delta Flight is drawn out of position or one of its members is lost in combat.  Those multidrone plates don't seem to have much battery life, esp. in pinpoint barrier mode, so having extra chargers on hand feels more like hedging one's bets to me.

 

11 hours ago, DWN013 said:

I don't have the VF-31 Master file but I believe someone pointed out that in the 31 MF or some other non-show notes, the 31A has a micromissile pod instead of a drone charger for that half of the weapons pod.

It wasn't Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried that showed that one.  IIRC it was a VF-31A Kairos model kit featured in Hobby Japan's Macross Modeling: Macross Delta Special Edition mook.  (CD Japan has this book marked "in stock at supplier" for a reasonable price if you're interested.)

The ordnance container for that custom kit showed a sensor pod with micro-missile launchers built into it instead.

The DX Chogokin VF-31A came with a regular multidrone charger, IIRC.  (I still haven't unboxed mine.)

 

 

11 hours ago, DWN013 said:

How does this pertain to VF-25 hardpoints?  Glad you asked; I can prove that Gilliam's loadout for Frontier episode 1 actually looked like this, despite Satellite's show model:

Site: http://sp.macross.jp/modelers/?id=113  Glad I found this modeler, a picture's worth a thousand words after all.

In MF episode 1, Gilliam jettisons his super pack to pursue the red soldier Vajra into Island one (as he will need to fly in-atmosphere) and is visually carrying nothing but his gunpod.  However, when he first attacks the vajra, he clearly does so with missiles that resemble the AMM-101. 

See Gilliam_missile.jpg.  VF-25's don't carry internal missile ordnance, therefore Gilliam must have carried AMM-101s on his outer hardpoints and retained them when he Jett'd his super packs.

Seems like a sound argument to me.  I'd originally written the missiles off as potentially having come from somewhere else like a Cheyenne II with a surface defense loadout like the Cheyennes that appeared in Macross Zero but have never been properly documented in artbooks.

That does appear to be an isolated incident, however.  The rest of the time the VF-25s aren't shown using anything like medium or long-range ordnance in their combat with the Vajra.  It's all close-in dogfighting... possibly something to do with the Vajra's strong ECM abilities.

 

[DWN013]

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Since the only VF-31A Kairos units we see in Macross Delta are the OPEVAL/trial production units operated by the other three flights in Χάος Ragna branch's 3rd Fighter Wing, I'm not sure that I'd say the multidrone chargers are necessarily deadweight.  The 3rd Fighter Wing operates from the carrier Macross Elysion - Walkure's mobile HQ - and are only ever seen sortieing in support of the Tactical Sound Unit and its protection detail (Delta Flight).

It wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to outfit them with multidrone chargers so they can recharge Walkure's Cygnus multidrone plates in the event Delta Flight is drawn out of position or one of its members is lost in combat.  Those multidrone plates don't seem to have much battery life, esp. in pinpoint barrier mode, so having extra chargers on hand feels more like hedging one's bets to me.

True, but I guess I should have specified: I was mainly thinking of the vast majority of VF-31As that would be produced during the type's lifetime: pure-military machines used by NUNS (or so I hope).  In such a fleet, located far away from the divas, the drone charger would be dead weight.  (also, having looked at Delta's mecha online the whole time, but being unable to watch the series until last fall, I was pretty surprised to see that they used the dang thing a grand total of one time, IIRC.

Thanks for the info on the modeling book, i'll have to get that one.  That VF-31A with sensor / missile pod half is a thing of beauty.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, DWN013 said:

True, but I guess I should have specified: I was mainly thinking of the vast majority of VF-31As that would be produced during the type's lifetime: pure-military machines used by NUNS (or so I hope).

Ah, I see.  Yeah, that's not really a case of Satelite not being "Valk-accurate" then.

Circa 2067, the Χάος branch on Ragna seems to have an agreement with the Brisingr Alliance NUNS similar to the one SMS's Frontier branch had with the fleet's NUNS in 2059 WRT testing the military's next-generation main variable fighter in actual operational circumstances.  Presumably the reasoning was the same: liability limitation on the military's part, since if the civilian contractors snuff it during testing or in a dodgy/suspect combat situation it's legally considered an accidental death.

The Kawamori interview in Great Mechanics G's Spring 2016 issue suggests the VF-31 Kairos won't be entering military service with the Brisingr Alliance NUNS until 2069-2070... two to three years after the events of Macross Delta.

 

 

6 hours ago, DWN013 said:

In such a fleet, located far away from the divas, the drone charger would be dead weight.  (also, having looked at Delta's mecha online the whole time, but being unable to watch the series until last fall, I was pretty surprised to see that they used the dang thing a grand total of one time, IIRC.

Granted, the multidrone chargers would be useless in a unit that wasn't operating in support of a Tactical Sound Unit.  The ones in the series, however, all belong to a single fighter wing that has operating in support of Tactical Sound Unit Walkure as its main mission.

It's less surprising that the chargers are disused when you note that the multidrones themselves are largely forgotten after about the fifth episode.  Once Windermere showed up with a countermeasure that shut the Cygnus multidrone plates down mid-fight, they sort of faded into the background even though Makina and Reina were supposedly working on a way to protect them from it.  It's like the writers couldn't figure out a way to work them into the story, or just preferred the drama of Hayate losing yet another arm blocking a shot from a Draken's beam gunpod.

[Lorindor]

On 2018-03-27 at 4:28 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Chronicle romanizes their names as Elgarsoln, Panzersoln, and Zaubergern.  There's some recognizable German roots there, like Panzer being "Armor" and Zauber being "Magic", but the rest... I have no idea, and neither does Google Translate.  I can ask some friends of mine who work for ZF Friedrichschafen later this week.

If we allow for errors in the romanization, it could be zorn, which means anger or wrath in German. That would make Panzerzorn a pretty cool name.

Gern means gladly, willingly, surely or with pleasure - it's actually a bit difficult to explain the usage in English, but it's just the same as the Swedish word gärna. I would interpret Zaubergern as something like "magic, please" as a request or someone that is happy to bring magic (but the composition of the word is a bit strange).

I could not find a meaning for Elgar.

On 2018-04-07 at 4:23 PM, Valkyrie Driver said:

German, Swedish, Dutch, Frisian, Norwegian, and Middle English are all Germanic languages, but sound nothing alike despite sharing a common root

Not quite true. As a Swede, I understand about 80-90% of spoken Norwegian. They basically just use a bit more old-fashioned inflections and use a higher pitch when they talk. And the Swedish spoken in southern Sweden is very close to Danish. I understand less of other Germanic languages though (except German, which I've studied a bit). I agree that German and Dutch have their distinct sounds, but the Nordic Germanic languages are actually very muddled. 

[SMS007]

1 hour ago, Lorindor said:

If we allow for errors in the romanization, it could be zorn, which means anger or wrath in German. That would make Panzerzorn a pretty cool name.

Gern means gladly, willingly, surely or with pleasure - it's actually a bit difficult to explain the usage in English, but it's just the same as the Swedish word gärna. I would interpret Zaubergern as something like "magic, please" as a request or someone that is happy to bring magic (but the composition of the word is a bit strange).

That’s what I thought of too, but the original Japanese text for “soln” is ゾルン / zorun, not ツォルン / tsorun. It would be odd if they correctly presented the German pronunciation of “z” in “Panzer” but forgot it in the rest of the compound word. 

Still, “Zorn” would make a lot of sense since it’s an actual word. 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Lorindor said:

If we allow for errors in the romanization, it could be zorn, which means anger or wrath in German. That would make Panzerzorn a pretty cool name.

Back when the designs were being developed for Air Cavalry Chronicles - which became The Vision of Escaflowne - there was a definite German theme to the naming of the Zaibach Empire's variable fighters, they appeared to follow the Reichsluftfahrtministerium aircraft designation system, and in one case they had markings that looked suspiciously like a swastika. 

In the published materials, they were the:

• Fz-109G Sturmsoln
• Me-175 Messergern
• Fz-109F Panthersoln
• Fz-109A Elgarsoln 

"Zorn" would be an acceptable rendering of the kana used for that part of the name (ゾルン), and would make a lot more sense than "Soln".  "Sturmzorn" is definitely an aircraft name that sounds a bit impressive on its own.

 

2 hours ago, Lorindor said:

Gern means gladly, willingly, surely or with pleasure - it's actually a bit difficult to explain the usage in English, but it's just the same as the Swedish word gärna. I would interpret Zaubergern as something like "magic, please" as a request or someone that is happy to bring magic (but the composition of the word is a bit strange).

Hm... considering it was the personal craft of a Protodeviln, that may be rather apt.  A being whose abilities were essentially indistinguishable from magic.

 

2 hours ago, Lorindor said:

Not quite true. As a Swede, I understand about 80-90% of spoken Norwegian. They basically just use a bit more old-fashioned inflections and use a higher pitch when they talk. And the Swedish spoken in southern Sweden is very close to Danish. I understand less of other Germanic languages though (except German, which I've studied a bit). I agree that German and Dutch have their distinct sounds, but the Nordic Germanic languages are actually very muddled. 

That got me thinking of this:

https://satwcomic.com/language-lesson#/

 

 

[Lorindor]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That got me thinking of this:

https://satwcomic.com/language-lesson#/

Well, it's commonly said in Sweden that the Danes need to spit out the porridge so one can understand what they say. (Why porridge? No idea.)

[Valkyrie Driver]

On 5/4/2018 at 9:19 AM, Lorindor said:

Not quite true. As a Swede, I understand about 80-90% of spoken Norwegian. They basically just use a bit more old-fashioned inflections and use a higher pitch when they talk. And the Swedish spoken in southern Sweden is very close to Danish. I understand less of other Germanic languages though (except German, which I've studied a bit). I agree that German and Dutch have their distinct sounds, but the Nordic Germanic languages are actually very muddled. 

Interesting. There's also the fact that the German I'm used to is at least 30 years old (American University), and the Dutch I'm used to is over 60 years out of date (My Grandfather) and Frisian sounds more like Pre-Chaucer Old English (Which my dad often recites than it does Dutch or German. Granted, languages evolve quickly, and muddle in border regions. Perhaps I exaggerated my point, but essentially all of them are still distinct languages, and One can tell (given familiarity with a language) one from another. I can tell the difference between Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Dutch, and German, but only enough to say that it's not Dutch or German. I can however tell Frisian apart from all of them.  

On 5/4/2018 at 2:27 PM, Lorindor said:

Well, it's commonly said in Sweden that the Danes need to spit out the porridge so one can understand what they say. (Why porridge? No idea.)

That's interesting, because Minnesotans and Wisconsinites (Both states were heavily settled by German and Scandinavian Immigrants) have a tendency to "chew" their words, it can make them difficult to understand at times. Though, I suppose, being from the American South I'm one to talk...

@DWN013, You've got a good point, and a reasonable explanation. I honestly can't think of a reason not to use the wing hardpoints, so I just chalk it up to animation errors, or oversight. Though pylons on those hardpoints might interfere with transformation mechanisms (Based off of my observation of the toy).

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

Though pylons on those hardpoints might interfere with transformation mechanisms (Based off of my observation of the toy).

If the Super Pack boosters covering the wing gloves don't, then there shouldn't be anything in the transformation that does.  I don't think we've had one that has that issue since the 2nd Gen VFs like the VF-4 and VF-9.

The VF-25's got a near-ideal situation there, since the entire center body forms the back, so you don't have the wings getting folded into the sides like on the VF-171 or VF-1.  

[SMS007]

Hey Seto, I recall you mentioning before that the "not official setting material" Master File books include a number of valkyrie models not (yet) established in canon materials, such as the YF-26, YF-30B, VF-30, and YF-31. Are there more non-canon models "established" in these non-canon sources?

[Seto Kaiba]

53 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Hey Seto, I recall you mentioning before that the "not official setting material" Master File books include a number of valkyrie models not (yet) established in canon materials, such as the YF-26, YF-30B, VF-30, and YF-31. Are there more non-canon models "established" in these non-canon sources?

The only ones that leap to mind is Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix making a VERY brief mention of a prototype designated SV-50 about halfway down page 28, and two transitional early prototype VFs based on Grumman F-14 Tomcat.  One, the F-14++ Advanced Tomcat, is basically analogous to the Super Tomcat 21 concepts that were floated by Grumman as alternatives to the NATF program.  It's a single-seater F-14 with passive stealth refinements to the airframe's shape, thrust vectoring, and a developmental model of the VF-0's engines (EGF-120).  The other is the F-14X Tomcat Phase 1.43 which is a converted F-14D+ outfitted for transformation testing.

By in large, what Master File has in terms of original designs that are not official setting material is lots of Master File-exclusive variants of official VFs.  The VF-0 book didn't go in for it, but the other books did.  Some of them overlap, broadly, with official variants (e.g. the VF-1N and VF-1G being essentially the VF-1A+ and VEFR-1), while others are a bit "out there" like the ones that appear in the VF-4, VF-22, and VF-31 Master File books.  Others overlap and contradict the official setting variants, like Master File's VF-19E basically being Basara's VF-19 Custom or the VF-4 book basically ignoring the official variants except for the VF-4G and VF-4SL.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[Sildani]

Where’s the info for the VF-171 and RVF-171?

[Seto Kaiba]

53 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Where’s the info for the VF-171 and RVF-171?

On display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard".  

Alternatively, assuming your name is not Arthur Dent, there are the following sources:

• Macross Chronicle Macross Frontier Mechanic Sheet NUNS 02A "VF-171 Nightmare Plus"
• Macross Chronicle Macross Frontier Mechanic Sheet NUNS 03A & 03B "VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX"
• Macross Chronicle Macross Frontier the Movie Mechanic Sheet NUNS 02A "VF-171/Destroid"
• Macross Chronicle Other Mechanic Sheet 08A UN 08A "YF-30 Chronos" (minor detail only)
• Macross Chronicle ALL Mechanic Sheet ALL 01B "VF Masterpieces seen from their Development Lineage" 
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 01C "Variable Fighter: Gunpods"
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 01D "Variable Fighter: Missiles"
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 01G "Armor Packs"
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 01N "VF Development History 2"
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 01O "VF Development History 3"
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 01Q "VF Family Line Diagram"
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 13A "Dimensional Weapons"
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 16A & 16B "Spacesuits" 
• Macross Chronicle Technology Sheet 17A & 17B "EX-Gear"
• Macross Frontier: Official Fan Book
• Macross F: 2059 Memories
• Macross Frontier the Movie: Sayonara no Tsubasa Official Complete Book
• Great Mechanics DX 4
• Great Mechancis DX 9
• Great Mechanics G 2016 Autumn

There's also a minor bit of info on it in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah mostly 'round about page 108, and some very basic stuff in Macross the Ride Visual Book Vol.1 on page 14 and in the Macross Frontier Blu-ray Vol.1 liner notes.  I think there's also some minor stuff in Variable Fighter Episode Archive, but I've done precisely bugger-all with that book.  There's also a bit of coverage in the Macross Delta Blu-ray liner notes, but I don't recall which volume offhand (it's just repetition of stuff already said elsewhere).

Edited May 17, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[Sildani]

Wow, more than I thought. Thank you. Was there anything written about the RVF version, like is it a normal production variant or a Luca custom, range of its sensors and so on?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Sildani said:

Wow, more than I thought. Thank you. Was there anything written about the RVF version, like is it a normal production variant or a Luca custom, range of its sensors and so on?

The RVF-171 Nightmare Plus isn't covered in exhaustive detail, but enough is said about it to get a good picture of its role and capabilities.

One of the many virtues of the General Galaxy VF-171 Nightmare Plus is its high multipurpose utility, being readily adaptable to a number of different roles including Bomber, Reconnaissance, Electronic Warfare, Designated Marksman, and UCAV control.  The VB-171 and RVF-171 are the only two that are explicitly mentioned by designation, the Electronic Warfare type and UCAV control type are both described as part of the RVF series.  Master File identifies the Designated Marksman type as the VF-171AS.

The RVF-171 is a production reconnaissance variant outfitted with the same AP-SF-01+ Aegis Pack used by the RVF-25, albeit apparently without the customizations Luca made to his RVF-25's Aegis Pack.  They're indicated to be a standard part of the fleet's airborne (spaceborne?) early warning system, patrolling the perimeter of the fleet at all times.  Same deal with the RVF-171EX, as that's just an RVF-171 upgraded to the EX standard.

[ivorysniper]

21 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The RVF-171 is a production reconnaissance variant outfitted with the same AP-SF-01+ Aegis Pack used by the RVF-25, albeit apparently without the customizations Luca made to his RVF-25's Aegis Pack.

 

A quick question comes to my mind now: since the RVF-171 and RVF-25 use the same Aegis pack, is the dish antenna for the RVF-25 a custom-made design for Luca's bird ?. Any available data explaining the difference between both designs ?.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, ivorysniper said:

A quick question comes to my mind now: since the RVF-171 and RVF-25 use the same Aegis pack, is the dish antenna for the RVF-25 a custom-made design for Luca's bird ?. Any available data explaining the difference between both designs ?.

Nothing explicit, that I recall.  Just a fairly generic statement that the Aegic Pack Kai used by the RVF-25 had been enhanced by L.A.I. to boost its performance in the name of overcoming Vajra ECM and other electronic interference.

The change in radome design was probably part of the "anti-Vajra upgrades" that make it the Aegis Pack Kai.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[SMS007]

Is it known if any NUN colonies directly adopted the redacted YF-24 Evolution specs as a mass production monkey model VF-24? Or are the redacted specs no good just on their own?

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Is it known if any NUN colonies directly adopted the redacted YF-24 Evolution specs as a mass production monkey model VF-24? Or are the redacted specs no good just on their own?

It's strongly implied that a number of fleets and planets did end up using the VF-24 either through purchase of an export variant or as a locally built monkey model specification, but because all the focus is on the derivative designs made based on the YF-24 Evolution specification they're never discussed in any depth.  (Largely the same deal as the fleets that went to an all-Ghost air force in the previous fighter generation.  We know it's a thing, but that it's a thing is about all we know.)

[SMS007]

Is the VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei essentially Macross Galaxy’s counterpart to Macross Frontier’s VF-19ACTIVE Nothung? Transitional test model from fourth generation to fifth generation?

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Is the VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei essentially Macross Galaxy’s counterpart to Macross Frontier’s VF-19ACTIVE Nothung? Transitional test model from fourth generation to fifth generation?

Sort of.

The Macross Frontier fleet's VF-19ACTIVE and Macross Galaxy fleet's VF-22HG were both test units used in the development of their respective fleets next-generation main fighters.  Where they differ is in their intended use.  The VF-19ACTIVE was a heavily-modified technology demonstrator meant for data collection purposes.  The VF-22HG was a mostly-stock aircraft with reworked controls that was meant to realize the YF-21's goal of "a fusion of man and machine"... which you could argue made it a testbed for improvements to the pilot.

[Seto Kaiba]

So... it's about time to update this lovely chart based on some new and speculative data:

What Changed:

• Sv-51 Replica and VF-0 Phoenix Replica moved from Generation 0.5 to Generation 1.5 based on uncovered info that suggests the VF-0 Phoenix replica was made using parts from both the Generation 1.5 VF-1C Valkyrie and the Generation 2 VF-5000 Star Mirage.
• Sv-51Ω has been moved to Generation 0.5 based on its status as a detuned/downgraded incomplete Sv-52 retrofitted for conventional engines.
• VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus added to Generation 1.5, indicated to be an improved VF-1X+ rather than a full tear-up as originally believed.
• Added VF-1C Civilian Valkyrie from the Macross Frontier novelization, the VF-1EX Valkyrie EX from Macross Delta, and Master File VF-1P Freyja Valkyrie to Generation 1.5.
• Added VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Manfred" to Generation 4.5, a Macross Galaxy fleet custom VF-22 based on the VF-22S that incorporates implant tech and ISC.
• Added VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Ushio Todo Custom" to Generation 4.5, a derivative of the Macross Galaxy VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Manfred".
• Added VF/B-22 Jagdvogel II to Generation 4.
• Generation 5.5 added based on extra features in the Macross Delta Blu-ray release (a GO! AERIAL KNIGHTS! segment).  Moved VF-31 Siegfried (Xaos Custom) to Generation 5.5.
• YF-28, YF-29 Durandal, YF-29B Percival, YF-30 Chronos, and YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Ver.) speculatively copied to Generation 5.5 pending new data.
• Added VF-30.

 

 

 

For the sake of convenience, the following rant will be color-coded!  
VFs that officially exist and have appeared in a Macross official setting work
VFs that officially exist and have NOT appeared in a Macross official setting work.
VFs that exist solely in non-official works like Variable Fighter Master File
VFs whose placement is speculative.
 

Generation 0 - "Prototype Generation"
This generation is purely speculative and exists mainly to segregate designs that do not fully comply with the design qualifications for the First Generation Variable Fighter (e.g. thermonuclear reaction turbine engines) and were built principally for evaluation purposes rather than mass produced for actual combat service.

• YVF-X-0
• VF-0 Phoenix (YVF-X-0B)
• VF-0-NF
• Sv-50
• Sv-51
• Sv-51Σ (Unmanned Sv-51)

 

Generation 0.5 - "Upgraded Prototype Generation"
This generation contains designs that exist only in Variable Fighter Master File.  These VF designs are upgrades of the 0th Generation prototypes that were upgraded with technology from 1st Generation VFs or otherwise modernized to make them viable for long-duration operation.

• VF-0+ Phoenix Plus
• Sv-51Ω (Repurposed incomplete Sv-52 with conventional engines)

 

Generation 1 - "First Generation"
The defining traits of this generation are the adoption of Overtechnology, including thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, laser weaponry, energy converting armor, etc. in a production variable fighter.

• Sv-52
• VF-1 Valkyrie
• VF-X-2

 

Generation 1.5 - "Upgraded First Generation"
First Generation designs upgraded with Second Generation hardware drawn from the VF-4.

• Sv-51 Replica (Macross 30)
• VF-0 Phoenix Replica (Macross 30)
• VF-1 Valkyrie Plus (Blocks 6 and later, incl. VF-1X)
• VF-1P Freyja Valkyrie
• VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus
• VF-1C Civilian Valkyrie
• VF-1EX Valkyrie EX
• VF-3000S Crusader
• VF-3000B

 

Generation 2 - "Specialization for Emigrant Fleets"
The hallmarks of the Second Generation designs include the adoption of Zentradi overtechnology, refinements for regime-optimized performance in either atmosphere or space, "lessons learned" from the First Space War, and optionally the adoption of particle beam weaponry.  Most were intended for use by emigrant fleets, with low cost, simplified manufacturing, and parts-sharing.

• VF-X-3
• VF-4 Lightning III
• VF-3000S Crusader
• VF-3000B Bomber Valkyrie
• VF-5000 Star Mirage
• VF-5
• VF-6
• VF-7
• VF-9 Cutlass
• VF-X-10
• V-BR-2
• VA-X-3

 

Generation 2.5 - "Upgraded Second Generation"
Second Generation VFs that were modernized to keep them in service alongside Third Generation VFs.

• VF-4G Lightning III
• VF-5000G Star Mirage
• VF-9E Cutlass

 

Generation 3 - "Project Nova and Diversification"
The Third Generation VFs are defined chiefly by the Project Nova design contest that decided the generation's main variable fighter as a true all-purpose successor to the VF-1 Valkyrie, but also by the continuing diversification of variable craft design into dedicated Attacker and Bomber roles.

• VF-11A/B/C/D Thunderbolt 
• VF-14 Vampire
• VF-15
• VF-17A/B/C Nightmare
• VA-14
• VAB-2
• VA-3
• VA-110 Variable Glaug
• VB-6

 

Generation 3.5 - "Upgraded Third Generation"
Third Generation VFs that've been modernized or upgraded with technology drawn from Fourth Generation VFs to keep them viable or evaluate technologies meant for Fourth Generation implementation.

• VF-11MAXL Thunderbolt 
• VF-11C Thunderbolt Interceptor
• VF-16
• VF-17D/F/S/T Nightmare
• XVF-19 (a modified VF-11)
• Fz-109 Elgersoln
• Az-130 Panzersoln
• FBz-99 Zaubergern

 

Generation 4 - "Project Super Nova: the Advanced Variable Fighter"
The Fourth Generation's distinctive design traits are among the best known in Macross.  The adoption of the next-gen ARIEL airframe control AI, thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines, fighter-scale pinpoint barrier systems, and native compatibility for fold boosters.  This generation was largely defined by Project Super Nova, the ultimately futile contest between the YF-19 and YF-21 at Eden's New Edwards Test Flight Center.  The insurmountable technological and performance complications of the two designs led to a third design, the VF-171, becoming this generation's main variable fighter.

• VF-19 Excalibur
• YF-21
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II
• VF/B-22 Jagdvogel II
• VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• VB-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• RVF-171 Nightmare Plus (Blocks I and II)
• Sv-154 Svard
• Feios Valkyrie
• Fz-109G Elgersoln Gustaf 

 

Generation 4.5 - "Upgraded Fourth Generation"
The Generation 4.5 designs are few, and consist mostly of VF designs that were either upgraded to evaluate tech for eventual adoption by Generation 5 designs, or ones that were upgraded in extremis to make them more effective in combat against the Vajra.

• VF-19ACTIVE Nothung
• VF-19EF Caliburn
• RVF-19EF Caliburn
• VF-19EF/A Excalibur ADVANCE
• VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Manfred"
• VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Ushio Todo Custom"
• VF-171 Nightmare Plus (Block III and IIIF)
• VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX
• VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX Throne
• RVF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX
• Queadluun Alma

 

Generation 5 - "Project Evolution and Decentralized Development"
The Fifth Generation of Variable Fighters started development as a response to the disastrous first contact with the insectoid alien race known as the Vajra.  Existing VF designs proved utterly inadequate to rival the performance of Vajra drones, and new programs were launched to develop countermeasures for the high-g forces and other major problems with the newly finalized Fourth Generation.  The design hallmarks of Fifth Generation Variable Fighters include the adoption of Inertia Store Converter technology to insulate the cockpit against high g-forces, Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, contactless Linear Actuator technology for transformation, the ARIEL II airframe control AI, Extender Gear (EX-Gear) user interfaces, Advanced Energy Conversion Armor (ASWAG), and heavy quantum beam weaponry.

• YF-24
• YF-24 Evolution
• VF-24
• YF-25 Prophecy
• VF-25 Messiah
• YF-26
• YF-27 Shahar
• VF-27 Lucifer
• YF-28 
• YF-29 Durandal
• YF-29B Percival (NUNS Ver.)
• YF-30 Chronos
• YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Ver.)
• VF-30
• VF-31 Kairos
• Sv-262 Draken III
• Queadluun Alma

 

Generation 5.5 - "Fold Wave Performance Enhancement"
The precise criteria for considering a design to belong to Generation 5.5 are unclear at the present time, but remarks by Tactical Sound Unit Walkure leader Kaname Buccaneer and team mechanic Makina Nakajima suggest that a Fifth Generation VF which has been upgraded with a fold wave-based performance enhancement system may technically qualify as Generation 5.5.  The only craft explicitly identified as belonging to this VF Generation is the Xaos Valkyrie Works VF-31 Siegfried, which may indicate Generation 5.5 is an informal classification used only by Xaos.  Previous media have suggested the VF-31 Siegfried and others are considered Fifth Generation VFs.

• YF-28
• YF-29 Durandal
• YF-29B Percival
• YF-30 Chronos
• YF-30B Chronos (NUNS Ver.)
• VF-30
• VF-31 Siegfried (Xaos Custom)
• Sv-262 Draken III

Edited June 15, 2018 by Seto Kaiba
Updated to add Master File VF-30.

[SMS007]

What's the SV-51Ω from?

And when have Manfred Brando and Tōdō Ushio had VF-22 units?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

What's the SV-51Ω from?

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix.  

According to the history in Master File, "SV-51Ω" was the designation the Anti-Unification Alliance applied to incomplete SV-52s it had hastily converted to use conventional (OTM-enhanced) turbofan jet engines in the closing days of the Unification Wars after it became apparent they weren't going to receive the production-intent thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.  They didn't fare that well against the UN Forces' VF-0+ Phoenix Plus, which WAS equipped with thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.

 

2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

And when have Manfred Brando and Tōdō Ushio had VF-22 units?

Colonel Ushio Todo had a cyborg spec VF-22 Sturmvogel II in the novelization of Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy.  From the description, it sounds like it was based on the "cyber grunt" VF-22 Sturmvogel II "Manfred" from the novelization of the Macross Frontier movies, which based on its description was probably based on the VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei.

The Manfred in question isn't Manfred Brando... he'd been dead for eight years at the time the VF-22 "Manfred" type appeared.  The novelization of the Macross Frontier movies indicates that Manfred Brando was not only responsible for the early breakthroughs in research of fold quartz and its practical applications, he was also a pioneer of Ghost in the Shell-style digitization of the mind.  The Macross Galaxy fleet's "Manfred" AI is implied to be based on a digitized copy of Manfred Brando's consciousness recorded before his biological death at the hands of the 727th Independent Squadron VF-X Ravens.

[Podtastic]

Not sure if it fits here, but is there any technical description of how the Nupetiet-Vergnitz's main cannon works? By this I don't mean the principle of the beam, but how the weapon itself functions and what the effects on the entire ship during the process of powering up and firing are.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Podtastic

[sketchley]

6 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Not sure if it fits here, but is there any technical description of how the Nupetiet-Vergnitz's main cannon works? By this I don't mean the principle of the beam, but how the weapon itself functions and what the effects on the entire ship during the process of powering up and firing are.

The short answer is: it's just like what we saw with the SDF-1.

One thing I've come across in my translations of the Zentradi ships is that basically the front 1/3 of that ship is all gun related mechanisms.  So, if we can presume that the majority of crew, ship facilities, hangars, etc. are clustered in the center to rear of the ship, then the disruption is less then if hangars and crew are spread throughout the font, too (this arrangement is the same as the SDF-1).

Also, due to the way the gun barrel opens, there is most likely great disruption to movement within the ship (the top and bottom half separate vertically to expose the central core), and possible from internal hangers to external hatches (it makes one wonder if the hangers attached to the outer hull and move with it or not).

Alas, there are hardly any specific details on those ships (and most mecha in Macross).

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Not sure if it fits here, but is there any technical description of how the Nupetiet-Vergnitz's main cannon works? By this I don't mean the principle of the beam, but how the weapon itself functions [...]

Wouldn't an explanation of the principles of its operation (how the beam is formed) by definition be "how the weapon functions"?  In principle, it functions no differently from any other heavy quantum reaction beam weapon... it's just a LOT bigger.

 

6 hours ago, Podtastic said:

[...] and what the effects on the entire ship during the process of powering up and firing are.

I'm not aware of any explicit technical description of the effects of preparing to fire (and firing) a heavy quantum reaction beam cannon on that scale.

Based on the animation itself, there may not actually be any... apart from the power requirements involved in charging the weapon, compensating for the recoil of the beam's discharge, and cooling the barrel after firing.

We've seen in SDF Macross, DYRL?, and a few other titles that ships can continue firing their other, smaller dimensional beam weapons while a main gun-class system charges, so the ships that stop firing may simply be trying to charge their biggest guns at top speed.  The recoil's been shown on several ships to be pretty intense, enough to push a Macross-class or Battle-class ship backwards, which presumably requires engine output to increase to compensate for.  The need to cool off the weapon's barrel is kind of understandable considering it's containing and focusing a heavy element fusion plasma beam.

[Sir Galahad®]

I think I've asked this before but why do the modern Valks have small to almost no backpack thrusters. I mean I rewatched Macross plus and there you can see the exhaust on the YF-19 on its back. Does that mean the VF-25 or VF-31 rely heavily on the leg thrusters to "hover" in the atmosphere. How about propelling forward in gerwalk. I remember there are like six small holes in the VF-25 when it is in Gerwalk. Is that as powerful as the previous valks?

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, Sir Galahad® said:

I think I've asked this before but why do the modern Valks have small to almost no backpack thrusters.

GERWALK mode isn't really made for fast forward flight... it's more for hovering and attack helicopter-like support maneuvering.  That said, as powerful as some of those sub-engines are they don't really NEED to be big to achieve the intended result.  The VF-1's liquid fuel rockets are small, but they're more powerful in terms of maximum output than the fighter's FF-2001 engine running at overboost (200%).

 

 

14 minutes ago, Sir Galahad® said:

I mean I rewatched Macross plus and there you can see the exhaust on the YF-19 on its back. Does that mean the VF-25 or VF-31 rely heavily on the leg thrusters to "hover" in the atmosphere. How about propelling forward in gerwalk. I remember there are like six small holes in the VF-25 when it is in Gerwalk. Is that as powerful as the previous valks?

The VF-25 had a bank of six small thrusters that, from the color of their exhaust, appear to be small thermonuclear reaction thrusters that are on the back of the airframe body in the part where it connects to the forearm shield.  They're visible in that shot shortly after Alto rescues Ranka from the hull breach in Island-1 in Frontier's second episode.  There's a part on the VF-31 that looks like it's probably something similar, though simply angling the VF's main engines is going to produce some pretty impressive thrust on its own (e.g. what we saw Hikaru do in the original series w/ that VF-1D, with one foot for hover thrust and one for forward motion).

[Sildani]

Wonder how that balanced out, that’s a lot of weight forward of the center of thrust. 

[Seto Kaiba]

On 7/13/2018 at 6:39 AM, Sildani said:

Wonder how that balanced out, that’s a lot of weight forward of the center of thrust. 

A fair amount of a VF's weight is in the legs (the engines), so having the center of gravity pretty low probably helps.

[ManhattanProject972]

I wonder how powerful those giant gatling guns are on the VF-31's armored pack.

[Seto Kaiba]

14 hours ago, ManhattanProject972 said:

I wonder how powerful those giant gatling guns are on the VF-31's armored pack.

While they appear to be a reuse of the CG model for the Cheyenne destroid's rotary cannons from Macross Zero... the firepower's probably serious business as a 2067-era rotary cannon on a pack that's traditionally used for heavy combat and anti-ship duties.

(Considering the VF-31's got railguns on those arms too, I'd guess probably least a 30mm round... very likely at or over the 4km/s that the standard starting in the 2040s.)