Ace Combat 7

[kajnrig]

The number of unlockables and the incredible prices to unlock them - 40,000 points, 50k, etc... 440k for one particular plane... I just have a sinking feeling that you'll receive 1k, 5k max per mission, and to "speed up" the unlocks you'll have the "option" of buying in-game currency.

[David Hingtgen]

9 hours ago, slide said:

I'm curious... is their plan to fly upside down? or is that a coastal squadron? why else would you blue-camo the top?

 

 

Ukraine has always had "bold blue" camo on their Flankers, this is the 3rd major version I know of. 

Original:

Splinter:

Digital:

[AN/ALQ128]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

The number of unlockables and the incredible prices to unlock them - 40,000 points, 50k, etc... 440k for one particular plane... I just have a sinking feeling that you'll receive 1k, 5k max per mission, and to "speed up" the unlocks you'll have the "option" of buying in-game currency.

Previous games had tech trees and currency in order to unlock things, and not even Infinity was that stingy about mission payouts. I don't feel like its anything to worry about.

[kajnrig]

30 minutes ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

Previous games had tech trees and currency in order to unlock things, and not even Infinity was that stingy about mission payouts. I don't feel like its anything to worry about.

I know, but the cynic(/realist?) in me worries all the same.

[Chronocidal]

Sadly, we're past that point where developers are going to ignore the potential income from cash shop boosters.  People don't want to spend the grind time necessary to unlock things manually, and they're going to keep exploiting that source of income as long as it works.

The only way it will stop is for people to stop shelling out money to skip the annoying parts of games, and prove that players are fed up with cash shops.  But sadly, that would take an overwhelming consensus to pull off.

One of my professors in the past had a policy.  They would curve their exams to the maximum score received, no matter how few questions that involved.  So, in theory, if you could successfully convince the entire class to only answer one question, everyone would score 100%.

But then you run the risk of having that one guy who decides to answer two questions.. and everyone but him would fail with a 50%.  Suffice to say, no one ever tried it.

Good luck convincing every single person who buys a game not to purchase the cash shortcuts.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Chronocidal

[kajnrig]

46 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Sadly, we're past that point where developers are going to ignore the potential income from cash shop boosters.  People don't want to spend the grind time necessary to unlock things manually, and they're going to keep exploiting that source of income as long as it works.

The only way it will stop is for people to stop shelling out money to skip the annoying parts of games, and prove that players are fed up with cash shops.  But sadly, that would take an overwhelming consensus to pull off.

Unfortunately, the bolded is not the case at all here. The audience didn't suddenly develop an aversion to grinding. The recent news that Spider-Man PS4 is among the most-Platinum Trophy'd games on the console is proof of that. Audiences have no problem with grinding for tokens, so long as those tokens and the rewards obtained with them are equally reasonably obtained.

What has happened is that devs/publishers have intentionally crippled progressions systems of their games and then put these scummy cash system in place to "balance" it. When Star Wars Battlefront 2 (and Mad Max IIRC, and Shadow of War, and so on) took out its microtransactions, it forced everyone to progress at a snail's pace, resulting in a terrible game. It had to completely rebalance the progression system in order to actually make it good.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that there IS a real-money system in AC7 and Bamco take it out. It won't be a return to the upgrade systems of AC4/5/X/etc.; you won't unlock planes every couple of missions. More likely, it'll be closer to AC Infinity but without the ability to buy fuel to play more every day.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited October 29, 2018 by kajnrig

[Dynaman]

I'm old and so I remember when buying a game meant you owned it.  Any kind of pay to win is a no go for me.  WoT being the worst offender I've actually played.

[Chronocidal]

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:36 PM, kajnrig said:

Unfortunately, the bolded is not the case at all here. The audience didn't suddenly develop an aversion to grinding. The recent news that Spider-Man PS4 is among the most-Platinum Trophy'd games on the console is proof of that. Audiences have no problem with grinding for tokens, so long as those tokens and the rewards obtained with them are equally reasonably obtained.

What has happened is that devs/publishers have intentionally crippled progressions systems of their games and then put these scummy cash system in place to "balance" it. When Star Wars Battlefront 2 (and Mad Max IIRC, and Shadow of War, and so on) took out its microtransactions, it forced everyone to progress at a snail's pace, resulting in a terrible game. It had to completely rebalance the progression system in order to actually make it good.

Entirely fair, I think it's really a combination of the two, honestly.  Kind of a death spiral where some devs got lazy developing engaging gameplay, then players got lazy and wanted a shortcut for the bad gameplay, and it repeats until we're at our current situation.

It's not universal, and some games have never sunk to those sorts of levels.  In my experience, that situation goes hand in hand with a focus on multiplayer, which is pretty much where AC fell off the wagon I think.  I care about multiplayer like I want a hole in the head, and the continued shift toward multiplayer mechanics has been nothing but detrimental to single-player content in my view.

[kajnrig]

46 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

It's not universal, and some games have never sunk to those sorts of levels.  In my experience, that situation goes hand in hand with a focus on multiplayer, which is pretty much where AC fell off the wagon I think.  I care about multiplayer like I want a hole in the head, and the continued shift toward multiplayer mechanics has been nothing but detrimental to single-player content in my view.

Interestingly, the two analyses of this trailer I've watched seem to interpret the contents differently, one discussing the customization/etc. as part of a multiplayer game, and the other discussing it as part of the single-player campaign. Looking at the trailer again, it doesn't clarify which of the two modes this upgrade tree exists in. I would imagine the game is single-player only, but one could just as easily argue for the existence of multiplayer based on just this trailer.

[Chronocidal]

I don't think it'll be single-player only, just because of how multiplayer-focused the last few games were in terms of content.  I'd love it if it were though, because the entire concept of an upgrade tree destroys my interest in multiplayer games.  If I'm going to be playing multiplayer matches, I want to join on an even footing, not have to grind my face into losing battles for weeks before my plane is "good enough."

Edited October 30, 2018 by Chronocidal

[mikeszekely]

On 10/29/2018 at 12:36 AM, kajnrig said:

The recent news that Spider-Man PS4 is among the most-Platinum Trophy'd games on the console is proof of that.

I figured it was among the most-platinumed games because it's pretty easy to do in a single playthrough with little if any grinding.  If they'd had a trophy that required all golds on the Taskmaster challenges or something like that I think a lot more people would have given up.

[kajnrig]

7 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I figured it was among the most-platinumed games because it's pretty easy to do in a single playthrough with little if any grinding.

Fair point. I Platinum'd without even realizing it, and was in the middle of completing the benchmarks when I finally checked and saw I'd gotten it. It's definitely not the hardest Platinum Trophy to get.

7 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

If they'd had a trophy that required all golds on the Taskmaster challenges

I restarted and restarted and grit my teeth through all the infuriating drone chase challenges - how many were there, like four or five spread across the city? - chasing down and finally getting the Gold in all of them. Never again.

28 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

If I'm going to be playing multiplayer matches, I want to join on an even footing, not have to grind my face into losing battles for weeks before my plane is "good enough."

Yep, I'm exactly the same way.

If all the planes exist more or less at parity with each other, then that wouldn't be much of a problem, but that also would kind of defeat the purpose of having a variety of planes in the first place. A tiered competition system might help. Something similar to racing games, where entering different... cups? circuits?... determines what cars you can drive, the type and extent of tuning you can do to your vehicle, etc... I dunno, I'm sure someone who regularly plays multiplayer has a better idea than I do of how to create an ideal AC multiplayer.

[Sildani]

Battle Ratings, or War Thunder’s Tier system. 

[Chronocidal]

The tier system in War Thunder can only go so far, and only keeps matches balanced in the sense of not having F-86s and such flying around against Sopwith Camels.  The upgrade grind in that game is a pay2win paradise, and why I barely play it.  Doesn't help that progression is only through PVP, either.

All I want for that game is a "buy everything for singleplayer" option, so I can just fly around in whatever plane for my own amusement, because the sim is beautiful.

If AC7's upgrade tree requires PVP to progress at a reasonable pace, I might give it a pass entirely out of disgust, but given how well the fuel system in Infinity worked out, I hope they would know better by now.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Chronocidal

[David Hingtgen]

Infinity did have a tier system, but it was far too simple---medium and god-like were in the same tier.  

[AN/ALQ128]

Seems like Kono is trying to get some momentum going for a North American release of the Strangereal edition. Personally, I find it pretty mindboggling that Bandai are willing to completely ignore such a large market like it didn't even exist, but it seems like that's how it is.

 

[David Hingtgen]

Yeah, you'd think that with the F-22 being the star of the series, the country that actually has them, might be a decent market for the game...

[electric indigo]

Consider it as a punishment for the export ban.

[kajnrig]

Could the lack/delay of a US Strangereal Edition have anything to do with the US tariffs on Chinese-made goods? Perhaps they would have to adjust the cost of the collection owing to the Arsenal Bird's inclusion.

If that were the case, I'd be totally fine with "just" a US version of the Japanese Collector's Edition, too.

[AN/ALQ128]

That box art is really attractive.

[Sildani]

Pleasant, if a bit generic. 

[AN/ALQ128]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BandaiNamcoUS/status/1060547496882200576

Looks like us North Americans aren't getting a Strangereal edition after all, but a pack called the Aces at War edition.

Comes with the steelbook, and the artbook.

[dizman]

All I really wanted was Aces at War and the game so that works out good for me. It's strange they are only offering it through the Bandai Namco website but I guess they didn't want to go through the hassle of setting up a new product on Amazon. Aces at War bundle link.

[kajnrig]

It definitely feels like a last-minute creation. It has pretty much everything I absolutely wanted from a collector's edition, so I'm happy.

Does anyone know if it comes with the preorder bonuses that other versions get? ie
- F-4 Phantom
- F-104 Starfighter
(- extra F-104 skin for digital preorder)
- preorder skins/emblems(?)
- AC5/6
- preorder theme for PS4
- anything else I'm missing?

[dizman]

In the twitter link AN/ALQ128 posted someone asked Bandai Namco and they actually responded saying that it will come with all the digital pre-order bonuses. I hope they actually do that but take it with a grain of salt until there's an actual list showing what we get. My guess would be they meant the F-4, pre-order skins, AC5 and that's it.

[AN/ALQ128]

Korean interview with Kono.

According to reddit translations, there are no microtransactions, as all MRP are earned through the campaign and multiplayer and is not accessible through real currency.

The fuel system from Infinity is not present in the MP mode.

There are 150 total possible combinations of aircraft, parts, and SP weapons.

There are 180 emblems, all of which can be unlocked ingame.

No chance of crossplay between platforms.

Mods are a mixed bag. It sounds like Project Aces are okay with mods as long as they don't affect the multiplayer experience, or violate any contracts with their licenses from aircraft manufacturers.

Anticheat measures will be implemented in multiplayer.

VR DLC may be possible sometime in the future.

Flightsticks can be used in VR.

Collaborations with other franchises (aka Idolm@ster skins) are being considered.

http://m.ruliweb.com/news/read/115012

[David Hingtgen]

That last line likely means "95% of future DLC will be idolmaster skins"

Also----Boeing is ready for AC7, they've displayed a load-out that looks "typical for late-game Ace Combat mission goals":

(model fail though---still has tailhook fairing, and the belly is not an E-model's) 

[AN/ALQ128]

4 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

That last line likely means "95% of future DLC will be idolmaster skins"

I'm hoping they'll do another Area 88 collab.

[David Hingtgen]

No F-8 makes Area 88 pointless IMHO...

[Chronocidal]

Ok, just the mention of mods makes me think PC is the way to go on this, even without some of the exclusives the other platforms get.

[AN/ALQ128]

6 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

No F-8 makes Area 88 pointless IMHO...

Perhaps that'll also be part of the DLC. Infinity introduced the F-5 and F-20 in the same update as the Area 88 event, iirc.

[Chronocidal]

If I remember correctly though, weren't the F-5 and F-20 Area 88 schemes already included in one of the previous games?  I feel like they were in AC:Zero, but they might not have had the tail logo.

[AN/ALQ128]

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

If I remember correctly though, weren't the F-5 and F-20 Area 88 schemes already included in one of the previous games?  I feel like they were in AC:Zero, but they might not have had the tail logo.

Only the F-20, I believe.

 

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

On 11/10/2018 at 11:48 AM, David Hingtgen said:

That last line likely means "95% of future DLC will be idolmaster skins"

Also----Boeing is ready for AC7, they've displayed a load-out that looks "typical for late-game Ace Combat mission goals":

(model fail though---still has tailhook fairing, and the belly is not an E-model's) 

Is that the latest iteration of the F-15X and is that a side facing camera or just a cutout on the side to show the AESA radar?

Glad the upgrade system from the PSP games made it into 7(it was in Infinity too but I wasn't sure it would cross over to a main console game). It's about time. Just wish the upgrades would also be reflected visually on the models themselves(like canards, wider flaps, thrust vectoring nozzles, et al).

[Sildani]

It’s a cutout to show the radar and avionics. I’m wondering what those gold squares underneath are.