Harmony Gold suing Tatsunoko

[jvmacross]

15 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

No, everyone knows Harmony Gold CAN'T act as a gateway/licensor for all Macross because they have no access to Macross beyond what Tatsunoko does.

All they can do is squat on those trademarks and wait for it to become enough of an embuggerance for someone to offer to buy out their trademarks.

What they're perceived as is exactly what they are: a roadblock.  No distributor is going to enter into negotiations with Harmony Gold vis a vis the rest of Macross because they know Harmony Gold has no power to grant licenses to that material, and they know that Harmony Gold's goal is to prevent the release of that material by all legal means available to drive up the value of the rights they're squatting on.  That's why no distributor has tried... and the market here ain't big enough to be bothered going to the expense of a long legal battle over.

That's why I said HG is the de facto owner of the Macross (yes, all of it) license, outside of Japan, for all of Macross, factual or not.....in practice, they may as well be as we have yet to see anything beyond MPlus released officially outside of Japan in decades......if they are not the "power to grant licenses" then who is?  If that entity exists, why has BW not approached it to release the rest of their Macross IP outside of Japan?  If it is BW, then why has it never not moved on it?.....again, the legal facts do not even matter when, by default, HG has managed to behave, pretend, and/or assume to be the licensor for Macross outside of Japan since at least 1999 (and for years before that) when they "shot off their mouth" and BW is "allowing" it....

If the "market" outside of the Island of Japan is perceived by BW as not "big enough" for it to want to expand into, then I can't imagine Macross ever escaping it's Japanese isolation......but seriously, it's laughable to even say the entirety of the rest of the world is not "big enough" of a market when compared to just the confines of the Japanese market.....Macross isn't a "need" so the market for it would require the desire to create it, just like any other anime or product for that matter....perhaps the truth is that Macross just isn't that good beyond Macross Plus, but based on some of the other garbage anime out there, I am sure Macross could find an audience if given the opportunity....wasn't it you who said a "translated" Macross publication would sell thousands of copies?  Surely BW can see the benefit of additional direct income it currently does not have due to it's current licensing limitations...

[pengbuzz]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I hasten to add... there is an important distinction here in what Harmony Gold's trademarks actually accomplish.

Harmony Gold cannot, in any way, prevent a distributor from going to Big West and saying "hey, sell me a license to the Macross sequels for <market>".  They have no approvals or involvement in licensing decisions made by Big West.

All Harmony Gold's trademarks do is make it effectively impossible to use those licenses in a commercial context in markets where they hold trademarks.  It enables them to use the threat of trademark infringement lawsuits to make those licenses effectively worthless.  If you can't sell the series on streaming, broadcast, or home video, or release merch for it without being slapped with a lawsuit, you've spent a lot of money for nothing.

And the entirety of North America is considered one market, correct?

It also makes me wonder if many of us here are holding onto a dim hope (that really doesn't have much to it) that in the unlikely event HG somehow lost/relinquished the rights to Macross in North America, that it would be a "renaissance" for Macross in the US? From what you said, Macross is an old property, and unless the popularity in the US was such that it would be a considerable boon for them, they wouldn't make any sudden moves to jump into it.

Just my 2 cents worth at this juncture.

[Gerli]

I wonder what will happen if the Mospeada project will become a hit and gets an animated series or OVA... Maybe then Tatsunoko will stop playing with HG and take those two IP's to somewhere else (and forget Southern Cross ever existed)

[Seto Kaiba]

4 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

That's why I said HG is the de facto owner of the Macross (yes, all of it) license, outside of Japan, for all of Macross, factual or not.....in practice, they may as well be as we have yet to see anything beyond MPlus released officially outside of Japan in decades......if they are not the "power to grant licenses" then who is?

You're still distorting things rather heavily, TBH.

No, nobody things Harmony Gold is the owner, de facto or otherwise, of all of Macross outside Japan.  Everyone knows they don't own squat.

Harmony Gold has no power to grant licenses to the rest of Macross, and they never have.

The only power they wield is the power to, in certain key markets, make the act of obtaining a license from Big West a wasted investment by threatening to sue for infringement of their trademarks.

That's it.

Harmony Gold didn't even have anything to do with us not seeing Macross 7 outside Japan.  It was simply priced outside what anyone was willing to spend when it was new due to the cost of the music rights.

If the demand for Macross in the west were huge, this would be the kind of problem where someone would force a solution.  But it's not.  It's a popular anime series, but anime is a niche entertainment market.  There's not enough money in this for a distributor to be willing to bludgeon an extortionist Harmony Gold into submission with fat stacks of cash, nor even to convince Tatsunoko to abandon the revenue stream they currently collect on shows nobody would otherwise care about.

 

4 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

again, the legal facts do not even matter when, by default, HG has managed to behave, pretend, and/or assume to be the licensor for Macross outside of Japan since at least 1999 (and for years before that) when they "shot off their mouth" and BW is "allowing" it....

You might not care about the legal facts, but the legal facts are why this is the way it is.

Those are the facts that matter to the businesses involved.

And it's not a question of Big West "allowing" Harmony Gold to do what they're doing.  The way the law is written, they literally do not have a legal recourse to challenge it here in the US.

 

4 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

If the "market" outside of the Island of Japan is perceived by BW as not "big enough" for it to want to expand into, then I can't imagine Macross ever escaping it's Japanese isolation......but seriously, it's laughable to even say the entirety of the rest of the world is not "big enough" of a market when compared to just the confines of the Japanese market.....Macross isn't a "need" so the market for it would require the desire to create it, just like any other anime or product for that matter....

It's a question of scale.  Anime is a niche market outside of Japan, and not exactly one that's hugely profitable.

If Harmony Gold were not an obstacle, this wouldn't be an issue.  The problem is that there's not enough money in it in the industry's current state for any interested party to want to go to the expense of having to fight that fight with Harmony Gold or to bribe them to go away.  That's what Harmony Gold was originally counting on to protect Robotech from having to compete against the original Macross on an even footing.  Now it seems to be what they're counting on while they hold out to inflate the value of the Macross rights that they have under license in the hopes of a big payday.

 

4 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

wasn't it you who said a "translated" Macross publication would sell thousands of copies?

Oh, absolutely it would.

But remember, translation costs money.  Printing costs money.  Distribution costs money.

Do you remember when I was talking about how much it actually costs to professionally translate a book?  On a lark, I had three different professional firms quote me for a strictly text-only translation of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie.  The average was over $25,000 to translate that 128 page book.  To print and bind a book like that, based on my research, costs around $22 US per copy from a professional printer.  If you want to print 5,000 copies, you need to make $135,000 on sales BEFORE you turn any profit.  To break even, you'd have to mark each copy up by $25 to $47... and that's to break even on selling 5,000 copies.  You'd need either a greater markup or more volume to actually turn any kind of a profit.  And that's not counting distribution, or royalties to the original publisher, IP owner, license fees, etc.

It's easy to sell five thousand copies.  But selling enough to make a significant profit?  That's harder.

 

4 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Surely BW can see the benefit of additional direct income it currently does not have due to it's current licensing limitations...

But it's not DIRECT income.  Big West is collecting royalties on licenses.  

The financial picture has to work for the licensees and their sublicensees to get anything done.

 

 

3 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

It also makes me wonder if many of us here are holding onto a dim hope (that really doesn't have much to it) that in the unlikely event HG somehow lost/relinquished the rights to Macross in North America, that it would be a "renaissance" for Macross in the US? From what you said, Macross is an old property, and unless the popularity in the US was such that it would be a considerable boon for them, they wouldn't make any sudden moves to jump into it.

Just my 2 cents worth at this juncture.

Macross is an "old" property, but so's Gundam.  So's Yamato.  It's old, but it's had new stuff coming out all the time... so it's not like it only has appeal to the over-40's the way that the Robotech franchise does.

 

1 minute ago, Gerli said:

I wonder what will happen if the Mospeada project will become a hit and gets an animated series or OVA... Maybe then Tatsunoko will stop playing with HG and take those two IP's to somewhere else (and forget Southern Cross ever existed)

Who knows?  Robotech's gotten out of the animation game, so maybe it'd just get ignored.

[jvmacross]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

*snip*

Again, the fact is that there has been no additional Macross releases outside of Japan beyond Macross Plus....no matter how much you try and spin it....HG is the only thing that has been setup, legitimately or not, as the perceived holder of the Macross licenses for all Macross distribution outside of Japan.....legal arguments at this stage are pointless, since nothing has enabled the official release of Macross outside of Japan...as I said, HG may as well be the actual license holder for all things Macross outside of Japan since in practice, that is exactly what has been happening for over 3 decades...

[Seto Kaiba]

32 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Again, the fact is that there has been no additional Macross releases outside of Japan beyond Macross Plus....no matter how much you try and spin it....

... is a complex matter that cannot be solely attributed to the influence of Harmony Gold and/or Tatsunoko Production, as it demonstrably predates the current deadlock.

To pretend otherwise would be asinine and a deliberate attempt to misinform.

Like it or not, you can't put the fact that nobody licensed Macross 7 or Macross Dynamite 7 for distribution outside Japan on this.

As convenient a target as HG is for the fandom's ire, we can't legitimately blame EVERYTHING on them.

 

Quote

HG is the only thing that has been setup, legitimately or not, as the perceived holder of the Macross licenses for all Macross distribution outside of Japan

Except that they haven't... except perhaps in their own minds.

They are known to have a rather inflated opinion of their own standing.

 

Quote

.....legal arguments at this stage are pointless, since nothing has enabled the official release of Macross outside of Japan...

Quite aside from the point that legal arguments are literally the topic of this thread... legal arguments are what is literally helping Macross gain ground in markets outside the US right now.  Legal arguments overturned Harmony Gold's trademarks in China and the UK, and are on their way to doing the same in the EU.  Legal arguments that can effectively put Harmony Gold in a corner and potentially convince them that now is the time to sell their stake in Macross before Big West's challenges to their trademarks further erode the value of the remaining trademarks.  Legal arguments are why Harmony Gold is suddenly so eager to negotiate with Big West.  Legal arguments are what is most likely to bring us ultimate victory in this.

Also, aren't you forgetting that there's literally nothing stopping Big West and its partners from just direct-marketing to us from Japan?  Like how they put official English subs on several past DVD/BD releases including one package of the Macross Frontier movies, the Macross Delta TV series, and Macross Delta movie?  Harmony Gold's trademarks can only stop distributors based in the region where the trademark registration is valid.  As long as the sale happens in Japan, all Harmony Gold can do is run to the end of its leash and bark.

 

Quote

as I said, HG may as well be the actual license holder for all things Macross outside of Japan since in practice, that is exactly what has been happening for over 3 decades...

Except that that's demonstrably not true either.

Did you forget Big West has already overturned the Chinese trademark filings and is in the process of releasing all of Macross in China?  The same is presumably going to occur for other markets where Big West has successfully overturned those trademarks.

The US crowd is just stuck for the time being because US trademark law is in dire need of an overhaul.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[jvmacross]

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

*snip*

I am not sure if you just enjoy repeating the long winded replies, but I am not really debating the legality of anything you are stating...all I am saying is in practice, HG may as well be the legal holder of any licensing beyond Japan for the last 30+ years......sure, things may be changing (finally), but I really do not care what happens in China or the EU...I do not live there and what happens there is no indication that it will be repeated in the US, right?

[Keith]

1 minute ago, jvmacross said:

I am not sure if you just enjoy repeating the long winded replies, but I am not really debating the legality of anything you are stating...all I am saying is in practice, HG may as well be the legal holder of any licensing beyond Japan for the last 30+ years......sure, things may be changing (finally), but I really do not care what happens in China or the EU...I do not live there and what happens there is no indication that it will be repeated in the US, right?

If you pay attention it's a huge indication. Those are regions where HG attempted tp flex their muscle & were subsequently shut down. The erosion of their claims internationally "will" have eventual ramifications in the US/Canada.

Legal precedent is the name of the game.

[jvmacross]

3 minutes ago, Keith said:

The erosion of their claims internationally "will"   "may" have eventual ramifications in the US/Canada.

 

Fixed it for you.....

[jenius]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

All Harmony Gold's trademarks do is make it effectively impossible to use those licenses in a commercial context in markets where they hold trademarks.  It enables them to use the threat of trademark infringement lawsuits to make those licenses effectively worthless.  If you can't sell the series on streaming, broadcast, or home video, or release merch for it without being slapped with a lawsuit, you've spent a lot of money for nothing.

Are you now arguing that Tatsunoko's hands ARE tied? I'm so confused by your logic.

The rights are worthless to anyone but HG because anyone but HG will face lawsuits. Why does Tatsunoko keep giving the rights to HG? Because they're THE ONLY ONES that can use them. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by jenius

[Seto Kaiba]

56 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

I am not sure if you just enjoy repeating the long winded replies, but I am not really debating the legality of anything you are stating...all I am saying is in practice, HG may as well be the legal holder of any licensing beyond Japan for the last 30+ years......sure, things may be changing (finally), but I really do not care what happens in China or the EU...I do not live there and what happens there is no indication that it will be repeated in the US, right?

So, if you're not interested in the facts why are you here in a thread specifically devoted to discussion and analysis of the legal situation and its implications then?

You keep insisting things which are factually incorrect, which does nothing to further the discussion.  If you continue to be disruptive, that'll become a matter for the mods.

Granted, I can understand why you might feel that Big West's legal victories abroad aren't relevant to you... but they mean EVERYTHING to this, and to an eventual victory where we can have Macross in the US.  Big West's victories in the UK and EU probably won't matter too much to Harmony Gold because, as their own disclosures indicate, the market for their own Robotech brand was basically nonexistent there.  But China... oh China... that is a wound that could potentially bleed the Robotech franchise dry.  HG talked at length about how they were counting on China to grow the Robotech brand on their convention tour for years.  Now they're facing direct competition against Macross in the market that was meant to save Robotech from the decline of its fanbase in the Americas.  

That's just the direct impact to their bottom line, though.  These victories overseas are also going to shake investor and licensee confidence in the brand.  Harmony Gold had placed quite a bit of hope in a live action movie revitalizing the brand, or at least the revenue stream from license fees until Hollywood got bored with the idea.  Every one of these victories diminishes the value of that license considerably because it makes it less safe to potentially release a movie in that market and oh boy is Hollywood risk-averse.  This would also hurt the prospects for future Robotech animation directly, since it complicates international distribution and licensing and increases the risk of litigation from Macross's owners... and HG has been surprisingly candid about spending a lot of money on having lawyers review everything it puts out to ensure it won't step on any of Big West's toes.

It's not a quick fix, but this is applying a lot of pressure to Harmony Gold's position in the states.  Pressure to either reach an accommodation with Big West, or sell Robotech.  They might only see Robotech as a hobby, but they're not going to keep it going if it's no longer justifying the expense of its existence.

 

23 minutes ago, jenius said:

Are you now arguing that Tatsunoko's hands ARE tied? I'm so confused by your logic.

The rights are worthless to anyone but HG because anyone but HG will face lawsuits. Why does Tatsunoko keep giving the rights to HG? Because they're THE ONLY ONES that can use them. 

No, I'm saying Tatsunoko's hands are NOT tied... it's the hands of the distributors that are tied.

Harmony Gold NEEDS that license - and to be actively using it - in order to keep those trademark "roadblocks" in place and keep the Robotech franchise alive via Macross merch.  Their entire position is dependent on retaining that license.

As long as those trademarks are in place, other distributors can freely license other Macross shows but would not be able to commercially exploit them without facing the threat of litigation from Harmony Gold, making the licenses to the rest of Macross worthless.

But if Harmony Gold were to lose the license either by revocation or by being outbid, their trademark "roadblocks" stop working because they can no longer demonstrate they're commercially using those marks.

 

You could say everyone's hands are tied BUT Tatsunoko's.

Tatsunoko just hasn't been presented with a compelling financial argument to drop Harmony Gold and license Macross's original series to someone else.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[jvmacross]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So, if you're not interested in the facts why are you here in a threat specifically devoted to discussion and analysis of the legal situation and its implications then?

 

Simple...to cut through the noise you keep propagating and just state that no matter what the actual legal conditions may or may not be....the sad fact is that HG is the de facto gatekeeper of any Macross business in the US now and for the last 30+ years, which for most on here is what really matters....

[Seto Kaiba]

16 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Simple...to cut through the noise you keep propagating and just state that no matter what the actual legal conditions may or may not be....the sad fact is that HG is the de facto gatekeeper of any Macross business in the US now and for the last 30+ years, which for most on here is what really matters....

So... you're trolling, making a claim that's not only irrelevant to the discussion but also factually incorrect?  I see.

In any event, the reason fans are so interested in this news is because it does have very real implications for the situation here in the US... either in the form of importable English dubs from other countries, or a negotiated end to the deadlock we've been facing for a bit over 18 years¹... not 30+.  And let's be honest... there were workarounds already in place before the deadlock ever started. 

 

1. 18 years, 4 months, 2 weeks, and 6 days at time of writing.  The relevant trademark was registered on 15 Oct 2002.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[jvmacross]

Just now, Seto Kaiba said:

So... you're trolling, making a claim that's not only irrelevant to the discussion but also factually incorrect?  I see.

In any event, the reason fans are so interested in this news is because it does have very real implications for the situation here in the US... either in the form of importable English dubs from other countries, or a negotiated end to the deadlock we've been facing for a bit over 18 years¹... not 30+.

 

1. 18 years, 4 months, 2 weeks, and 6 days at time of writing.

Trolling?  Seriously?  No.  Just trying to show the reality of the situation.  No new Macross in the US for decades is the only relevant "fact"...no amount of rants or amateur legal "interpretation" changes that.....

In any case, if it makes you feel any better, I am not disagreeing with your "interpretations" of the legal conditions that hold the Macross franchise in it's current situation.....and I beg you good day....

 

[JB0]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's why no distributor has tried... and the market here ain't big enough to be bothered going to the expense of a long legal battle over.

Almost no. I forget who, but someone licensed Macross 7 Trash for an english release.

It never came out. They paid HG for a Macross license, and as I understand things Big West cancelled THEIR license because they don't negotiate with terrorists.

[jvmacross]

20 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Almost no. I forget who, but someone licensed Macross 7 Trash for an english release.

It never came out. They paid HG for a Macross license, and as I understand things Big West cancelled THEIR license because they don't negotiate with terrorists.

Totally forgot about the M7 Trash Argentine edition....I don't recall if those have any HG licensing involvement though...think there was an Italian version too...

 

http://www.editorialivrea.com/ARG/macross7trash/index.htm

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by jvmacross

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Almost no. I forget who, but someone licensed Macross 7 Trash for an english release.

It never came out. They paid HG for a Macross license, and as I understand things Big West cancelled THEIR license because they don't negotiate with terrorists.

I've heard about that several times - the licensee was TOKYOPOP - but I've never been able to turn up any archived news posts or anything about that other than that its release was "indefinitely delayed" due to licensing issues.

Admittedly, given what I've heard from current and former HG staff about how HG soured its relations with Big West it definitely has a ring of plausibility to it.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Totally forgot about the M7 Trash Argentine edition...

Was it actually a legitimate release?  Argentina is well-known as one of the global hotspots for piracy/copyright infringement.

[pengbuzz]

48 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Trolling?  Seriously?  No.  Just trying to show the reality of the situation.  No new Macross in the US for decades is the only relevant "fact"...no amount of rants or amateur legal "interpretation" changes that.....

In any case, if it makes you feel any better, I am not disagreeing with your "interpretations" of the legal conditions that hold the Macross franchise in it's current situation.....and I beg you good day....

 

Seriously dude... no need for the hostility. No wonder I dropped out of your other threads...

[jvmacross]

Just now, pengbuzz said:

Seriously dude... no need for the hostility. No wonder I dropped out of your other threads...

"Dude"....I do not like being accused of trolling....do you?

[azrael]

Enough. Jeez. We're really just arguing the same thing here. Just different way of saying it.

28 minutes ago, JB0 said:

It never came out. They paid HG for a Macross license, and as I understand things Big West cancelled THEIR license because they don't negotiate with terrorists.

"terrorists"...I won't put it in such terms. More like "wrong stake holders". TokyoPop got the OK from HG to release in NA, but M7 Trash is not HG's property so that opens a door to who owns what, what's trademarked, what's copyrighted...blah blah blah.

[Ikaruss]

45 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Was it actually a legitimate release?  Argentina is well-known as one of the global hotspots for piracy/copyright infringement.

Yay! We are famous for something!! 

Spoiler

 

It is legal and not so much.
The director of the Ivrea publishing house, Leandro Oberto, at the time traveled directly to Japan, to make contracts with various publishers to publish some manga, like Evangelion, Saber Marionette J, Is, ando others.

Oberto even had, I think, an interview or two with Mikimoto.

Unfortunately, that edition is a horror from all sides.
For example, in the first chapters, Max is referred to as Sterling, not Jenius.
Miria is referred to as Miriya, and to top it all, the type of translation uses the Argentine dialect that mixes some lunfardo, a type of Argentine dialect from the Rio de la Plata.
Even many of us who are Argentineans find it extremely difficult and obnoxious to read that this type of translation is used.

Imagine that it is a translation with very North American dialects, almost redneck.
I mean, imagine someone like Hikaru saying "Howdy ho!".
Another example is like the horrible dubbing and translation of Macross by ADV Films.

Well, that's how different and bad is the translation of Macross 7 Trash, Argentine edition of Ivrea.
And they have never, never corrected it in subsequent installments.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Ikaruss

[Ikaruss]

54 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Totally forgot about the M7 Trash Argentine edition....I don't recall if those have any HG licensing involvement though...think there was an Italian version too...

 

http://www.editorialivrea.com/ARG/macross7trash/index.htm

 

No.
HG has nothing to do with the argentinian edition.

 

[jenius]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

You could say everyone's hands are tied BUT Tatsunoko's.

Tatsunoko just hasn't been presented with a compelling financial argument to drop Harmony Gold and license Macross's original series to someone else.

You're missing something here... still putting dots on the board and not connecting them so you can conclude their hands aren't tied. They go with HG because HG is the only customer... but sure, their hands aren't tied... whatever. 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, jenius said:

You're missing something here... still putting dots on the board and not connecting them so you can conclude their hands aren't tied. They go with HG because HG is the only customer... but sure, their hands aren't tied... whatever. 

There's no obligation for them to do business with Harmony Gold, so no... their hands are not tied.

That's what that idiom means... that you're unable to act freely because of some rule, law, or obligation.

Tatsunoko does not need the money from the Macross-Southern Cross-MOSPEADA license.  They could have just said "No" to Harmony Gold request for renewal and shopped any or all of the three shows around to other distributors with every expectation that several would've bid for Macross.  That's kind of what we were expecting given that Tatsunoko took HG to court over its suspicions that HG was cheating them out of royalties owed.  Tatsunoko just doesn't stand to gain significantly from ditching Harmony Gold and freeing up Macross because it can't collect royalties on the sequels.

[jenius]

Uck... so companies aren't obligated to make money and Tatsunoko doesn't need money? Now I get why you feel their hands weren't tied. Okay for you. I agree to disagree.

[Seto Kaiba]

21 minutes ago, jenius said:

Uck... so companies aren't obligated to make money and Tatsunoko doesn't need money?

Are we doing reduction to absurdity now?  I can do snark, but I'd really prefer to have a serious discussion.

It's not like Tatsunoko Production is dependent on the residuals from a trio of nearly-40 year old shows to keep the lights on.  Animation production isn't the most profitable business in the world, but they're not so pressed for cash that they can't afford to turn down a contract with a company they don't trust or one that offers unfavorable terms.  Companies need to make money, but they're not obligated to take any and every opportunity.  Companies dissolve contract partnerships like this all the time, and for far flimsier reasons than the ones that Tatsunoko took Harmony Gold to court over.  The sum Tatsunoko collects in royalties from Harmony Gold's license is not exactly critical to its financial well-being either.  It's more like a stock dividend than a paycheck. 

They could've walked away and left Harmony Gold to burn without any real harm to themselves.  

The problem, as I've said before, is that there isn't a significant financial incentive for Tatsunoko to end its partnership with Harmony Gold.  They don't really stand to gain anything by siding with Big West because the market's already saturated with the original Macross series and they won't collect any distribution royalties from the sequels.  It'd be a wash or small net-negative.

[Shawn]

Before things get all hot and heavy again in here, just remember everyone, that these are all of our personal OPINIONS and GUESSES...none of us know what the hell is actually happening, we flat out don't.

And any real insider information sure as hell is not going to be posted publicly on this message board, so please calm your collective bits and breathe, and move to another thread if your are agitated in this one.

S

 

 

[pengbuzz]

8 minutes ago, Shawn said:

Before things get all hot and heavy again in here, just remember everyone, that these are all of our personal OPINIONS and GUESSES...none of us know what the hell is actually happening, we flat out don't.

And any real insider information sure as hell is not going to be posted publicly on this message board, so please calm your collective bits and breathe, and move to another thread if your are agitated in this one.

S

 

 

Thanks Shawn. I'm departing this thread as it got a bit heavy for me. Anyone needs me, I'll be building a model in the Workshop. I have Maverick's F/A-18 From the next Top Gun movie going, and considering scratching up a VF-5000 (because no one's done a proper toy yet!).

Edited March 8, 2021 by pengbuzz

[azrael]

Really...we’re arguing the same thing just from different directions. Companies sue each other all the time, but then end up working with one another. In tech, this happens a lot. Why? Cuz it makes money-sense. It’s cheaper or one stands to gain more out of that partnership than lose. And they may keep that relationship going until it no longer is financially sound. Case in point, Apple v. Samsung or your favorite automotive company. 

Not saying there is a right or wrong answer, but there is precedent. 

[Gerli]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Was it actually a legitimate release?  Argentina is well-known as one of the global hotspots for piracy/copyright infringement.

No, that's China. We're well-known for hiding Nazis.

[vladykins]

4 hours ago, azrael said:

Really...we’re arguing the same thing just from different directions. Companies sue each other all the time, but then end up working with one another. In tech, this happens a lot. Why? Cuz it makes money-sense. It’s cheaper or one stands to gain more out of that partnership than lose. And they may keep that relationship going until it no longer is financially sound. Case in point, Apple v. Samsung or your favorite automotive company. 

Not saying there is a right or wrong answer, but there is precedent. 

This is where earlier I said HG and BW may actually negotiate something, since both signed off on the end of the mediation and dropping the appeals. HG isn't going to drop things if they aren't getting something out of it and if BW is in a position to just steamroll over HG anyway, there is literally zero reason for them to sign on, since the money spent on additional litigation to get their judgement would just be a fraction more at this point *if* things are so certain in the EU.

So much as many of us might not like it, I think we're going to see BW work things out with HG. If it is only a payday for HG as Seto claims, then so be it. But this looks to me like them working out something and I still think HG would want too much of a payday to drop Robotech altogether- so we're likely to see HG still involved for quite some time.

 

1 hour ago, Gerli said:

No, that's China. We're well-known for hiding Nazis.

I lolled IRL so you get a like for sure.

[Einherjar]

The amount of bending over HG is willing to do at Robotech's expense just for a deal is pretty extreme from a story telling perspective.  Might as well be capitulation.  Remember, there was once a story about what people called a multiple generational epic and about a couple of years ago they were willing to subvert all of it in order to carve a new path forward.  Fans are not going to be happy if that's official.

I guess a deal would look more fair to me if there any signs that Macross would be making similar concessions, but how can it when the situation has always been stacked against that franchise.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Einherjar

[Shawn]

ok, so we had to delete some extra fun comments here, so locked!