Harmony Gold suing Tatsunoko

[pengbuzz]

I'm pretty sure that what HG thinks is "protoculture" is actually SPAM.

[Seto Kaiba]

57 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

I'm pretty sure that what HG thinks is "protoculture" is actually SPAM.

Well, that'd explain why the show mentions that protoculture tastes awful...

[blackconvoy_D01]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, that'd explain why the show mentions that protoculture tastes awful...

Macross protoculture doesnt. Ask Max. He cant get enough.

[kajnrig]

ANN q&a about the recent license renewal: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2019-08-07/.148929

[Dynaman]

The article severely brushes over the problems with newer Macross shows getting here.

[kajnrig]

48 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

The article severely brushes over the problems with newer Macross shows getting here.

Yeah, for as concise as the author was trying to be, the unintended result was that he skimmed over some important details.

[Bolt]

I’m not sure it brushes past it , so much as focuses on the much larger picture surrounding the issues with bringing Macross to the west. It seems many  industry insiders are privy to the myriad of legal issues and complications which have stacked up over the decades. Justin did a decent job of laying it out for the masses , without speaking details because, as we know, many are being kept secret and behind closed doors. And to attempt to quote industry insiders would be hearsay, even if it was accurate.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Bolt

[kajnrig]

Gah, yeah, that too. I didn't mean to imply it was a bad or incomplete summary. In my own haste to be, well, hasty, I skimmed over some details myself. The irony...

[blackconvoy_D01]

Even if Macross didn't make it to Adult Swim and American television for whatever reasons in Japan- with Harmony Gold out of the way (had it happened in 2021) online retailers like BBTS, Toysource and Bandai direct would be able to stock Macross products and sell it to us directly including media without interference and possibly lower than premium pricing. Plus no more high International shipping.

Edited August 8, 2019 by blackconvoy_D01

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Yeah, for as concise as the author was trying to be, the unintended result was that he skimmed over some important details.

Well, he is writing for general audiences... one of the bigger problems with the situation, and a source of entirely too much misinformation from the Robotech side of things, is when the situation gets oversimplified and people start drawing conclusions based on the oversimplification.  (Especially when that oversimplification is couched in truthful but typically weasel-y language the way some Harmony Gold statements are.)

 

1 hour ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Even if Macross didn't make it to Adult Swim and American television for whatever reasons in Japan- with Harmony Gold out of the way (had it happened in 2021) online retailers like BBTS, Toysource and Bandai direct would be able to stock Mscross products and sell it to us directly including media without interference and possibly lower than premium pricing. Plus no more high International shipping.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Macross plamodels (Macrosspla?) in bookstores the way gunpla can currently be found.

[JB0]

21 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Macross plamodels (Macrosspla?) in bookstores the way gunpla can currently be found.

A. Yes, please.

B. Macplass(or makuplasu if you're dealing with obnoxious anime fans that hate translated titles and official romanizations)

[Einherjar]

6 hours ago, kajnrig said:

ANN q&a about the recent license renewal: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2019-08-07/.148929

Please, feel free to use my seizure inducing Minmay in the discussion thread as an example of what the renewal is getting people. 

[Gerli]

9 hours ago, Einherjar said:

Please, feel free to use my seizure inducing Minmay in the discussion thread as an example of what the renewal is getting people. 

You like to see the world burn, don't you? 

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, JB0 said:

B. Macplass(or makuplasu if you're dealing with obnoxious anime fans that hate translated titles and official romanizations)

I feel like we missed the obvious pun of "Placross".

 

10 hours ago, Einherjar said:

Please, feel free to use my seizure inducing Minmay in the discussion thread as an example of what the renewal is getting people. 

... couldn't we just show them Hellraiser?

 

46 minutes ago, Gerli said:

You like to see the world burn, don't you? 

Hey, some people blow off steam by playing tennis... others do it by eroding the human soul.

[HardlyNever]

12 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Even if Macross didn't make it to Adult Swim and American television for whatever reasons in Japan- with Harmony Gold out of the way (had it happened in 2021) online retailers like BBTS, Toysource and Bandai direct would be able to stock Mscross products and sell it to us directly including media without interference and possibly lower than premium pricing. Plus no more high International shipping.

I can't speak much for Toysource or Bandai direct, as I don't really use them.  But with regards to BBTS versus just using the usual import retailers, it is often cheaper to just use the import retailers, especially if you don't mind slower shipping.

Compare the Mafex Wolverine from AmiAmi or HLJ, vs BBTS.  The cheapest you could get it form BBTS is $99 shipped.  While it is ~$70 UDS, before shipping, at the import places.  So as long as you're ok with shipping that costs less than $30 (i.e. slower shipping), you're going to get it for $5 to $10 cheaper, maybe just a little later.  And ordering from BBTS you're going to have to wait for them to get it from Japan, then ship it out to you, then local shipping to get it to you, so it really isn't much faster.

You can make this comparison with a bunch of import stuff that is allowed to be sold in the US (mafex, figma, other bandai stuff), and the result is the same.  I'm not trying to  here, but this idea seems to persist, when we have tons of examples that show otherwise.  The "domestic" retailers are just serving as another middle man, in most cases.  I think it also speaks to how efficient international shipping and trade has gotten, at least for some country combinations.

Now Bandai Direct might be an exception, since we could pay less of a middleman fee.  Unfortunately, it looks like we'll never find out for sure.

[jvmacross]

HG should just ditch the "Robotech Saga" and re-release Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeada under a "Robotech" anthology (if they insist on keeping the Robotech name alive).  Kind of like the "Super Dimension" shows of Macross, Southern Cross, and Orguss.....all under the "Super Dimension" title, yet none of them related story-wise.  The shows can then exist on their own and as originally meant to be.  This would resolve the issue of needing to continue to stick to the "Robotech" storyline that mutilated three unrelated shows and that no one wants to see continued or made into a "live-action" movie. 

As far as I know, HG attained the licenses for the 3 shows and decided to create Robotech out of them for business/commerical reasons, but there should be nothing from keeping them from deconstructing them and rebooting them as separate individual series.  The fact that we have had releases of all three shows in the US as they were originally released in Japan shows that this is possible.    

[Sildani]

Well, the problem with that is: aside from Macross, are the other shows really that good? Also, they’re all 40ish years old, so would they actually be embraced by modern anime consumers?

As that Justin chap pointed out, those shows were re-released over here a while back, and didn’t do well, and are available to stream on Amazon Prime. Wonder how many views they get...

Edited August 8, 2019 by Sildani

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Well, the problem with that is: aside from Macross, are the other shows really that good?

Not really, no... neither was a commercial success in Japan.  Southern Cross was a start-to-finish disasterpiece and MOSPEADA got so-so ratings and didn't really move much merch.

 

Quote

As that Justin chap pointed out, those shows were re-released over here a while back, and didn’t do well, and are available to stream on Amazon Prime. Wonder how many views they get...

Yeah, sales were slack enough that to divest themselves of the remaining inventory ADV Films bundled Southern Cross and MOSPEADA together and sold two shows for the price of one.  The set is actually quite nice... though I have to wonder how much harm they did to its prospects by advertising it on the basis of its relationship to Robotech.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[kajnrig]

2 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Well, the problem with that is: aside from Macross, are the other shows really that good? Also, they’re all 40ish years old, so would they actually be embraced by modern anime consumers?

As that Justin chap pointed out, those shows were re-released over here a while back, and didn’t do well, and are available to stream on Amazon Prime. Wonder how many views they get...

I think someone points out in the forums there that Gundam churned up interest in MSG by way of its more recent entries, allowing MSG to sell fairly well when it finally released on DVD(/BD?). You kind of need that modern entry point to get new fans interested in something as old as these OG shows rather than just relying on the dwindling and aging fanbase to achieve high sales.

[Knight26]

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

HG should just ditch the "Robotech Saga" and re-release Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeada under a "Robotech" anthology (if they insist on keeping the Robotech name alive).  Kind of like the "Super Dimension" shows of Macross, Southern Cross, and Orguss.....all under the "Super Dimension" title, yet none of them related story-wise.  The shows can then exist on their own and as originally meant to be.  This would resolve the issue of needing to continue to stick to the "Robotech" storyline that mutilated three unrelated shows and that no one wants to see continued or made into a "live-action" movie. 

As far as I know, HG attained the licenses for the 3 shows and decided to create Robotech out of them for business/commerical reasons, but there should be nothing from keeping them from deconstructing them and rebooting them as separate individual series.  The fact that we have had releases of all three shows in the US as they were originally released in Japan shows that this is possible.    

What you are describing was Karl Macek's original plan.  He wanted to start with those three mecha shows under the Robotech Banner, then license more mecha shows and turn Robotech into a sort of Anthology Franchise that specialized in showing mecha anime.  The networks pressured HG to make it into one complete story and Agrama agreed.  Had Macek stood his ground I doubt we would have the issues with the Robotech franchise that we do, as it would be the vehicle through which more Macross, Orguss, Votoms, maybe even Gundam, etc... were brought to the US in the 80s, 90s, and beyond.

[jenius]

Had Macek stood his ground we would be talking about someone else since none of us would know who Macek was after Agrama fired him.

[Knight26]

9 minutes ago, jenius said:

Had Macek stood his ground we would be talking about someone else since none of us would know who Macek was after Agrama fired him.

Except that Macek, IIRC, was the one with contacts that got them in bed with Tatusnoko in the first place.

[Seto Kaiba]

36 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

What you are describing was Karl Macek's original plan.

Second plan.  Macek's original project was to simply dub Macross, which went awry after production had already started thanks to Revell.

They finished about three episodes, IIRC, before being forced to shift their efforts to what eventually became Robotech.

 

36 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

He wanted to start with those three mecha shows under the Robotech Banner, then license more mecha shows and turn Robotech into a sort of Anthology Franchise that specialized in showing mecha anime.  The networks pressured HG to make it into one complete story and Agrama agreed.

Macek and HG variously claimed over the years that it was either Revell or the network that insisted that an anthology series (ala Force Five) was not workable.  I believe Revell was the one they more often blamed, usually citing Revell's desire to have a cohesive story to prop up the sales of its own failed Robotech toy/model line.

 

36 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

Had Macek stood his ground I doubt we would have the issues with the Robotech franchise that we do, as it would be the vehicle through which more Macross, Orguss, Votoms, maybe even Gundam, etc... were brought to the US in the 80s, 90s, and beyond.

Had Macek stood his ground, he would've been let go... which would probably have made the ensuing Robotech series less of a massive clusterf*ck anyway, given that his arrogance and incompetence were major factors in the failures of all three serious attempts to continue Robotech's story.

As to the anthology series picking up other mecha shows, that's rather unlikely.  Licensing was expensive enough as it was, and Tatsunoko Production didn't do much in the way of mecha after its two Macross mockbuster efforts (MOSPEADA and Southern Cross) failed to set the world on fire.  Their only other SF/mecha project in the 80's was Red Photon Bullet Zillion, and the only mecha-esque title in the 90's was Space Knight Tekkaman Blade.  If Artland's Super Dimension Century Orguss was a bridge too far when they were putting their series together in the first place, it's doubtful they would've gotten it later.  They probably wouldn't have been able to get their mitts on anything from Nippon Sunrise.

 

 

19 minutes ago, jenius said:

Had Macek stood his ground we would be talking about someone else since none of us would know who Macek was after Agrama fired him.

And the anime industry as a whole would've been a LOT better off without that lying blowhard...

Kinda sucks knowing we live in the Bad Future.

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Sildani said:

Well, the problem with that is: aside from Macross, are the other shows really that good? Also, they’re all 40ish years old, so would they actually be embraced by modern anime consumers?

As that Justin chap pointed out, those shows were re-released over here a while back, and didn’t do well, and are available to stream on Amazon Prime. Wonder how many views they get...

yes...100% agree.  The goal for HG should be to follow Kylo's advice and "...let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.."

Macross is where the money is at.....you can probably fill a small room with Southern Cross fans...and Mospeada...well, let that become it's own thing and follow it's own path, which seems may finally be happening in Japan.  But if the other 2 franchises "die" in the process...so be it.

As is well known, the originators of Macross in Japan are more or less unhappy with what has happened with their creation outside of Japan.  The only way to start fresh or make amends would be to let Robotech die or simply cast it aside much like Disney has with the EU (even though they seem to have dipped heavily into that well anyway).  HG should separate the 3 shows and allow for the rebirth of Macross as it's own thing.

As long as Robotech continues to breathe.....there will be no end to the Macross quagmire outside of Japan.

Assuming that HG would be willing to start over, the other hurdle would be if BW would be willing to accept "turning off Robotech's life support" as an olive branch offering to reboot the partnership between all parties involved.  That may be a more difficult proposition.  Still, money always seems to win the day when the opportunity to make it becomes less entangled in stupidity...in this case, that being the idea for continuing the "Robotech" franchise as-is.

 

 

[Einherjar]

4 hours ago, Gerli said:

You like to see the world burn, don't you? 

I wasn’t the guy who gave the green light for that or the probably maybe borderline pervy Southern Cross comic.

[Bolt]

You’re just the guy torturing us with the man minmay seizure meme

 

[anime52k8]

17 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

I wasn’t the guy who gave the green light for that or the probably maybe borderline pervy Southern Cross comic.

When did they do pervy southern cross comics? That might actually make Southern Cross something vaguely resembling almost interesting.

[Knight26]

Interesting thought experiment.  Imagine you could go back and buy the Robotech or Macross rights from HG.  When would you do it?  When would be the most opportune time, when HG had left the property stagnant the longest and they might be most hard up to offload a property that garnered them no returns?
My first thought would mid-90s, before Mac-Plus came out and Manga snuck it into the US.  The issue there is that they were still getting some trickle of money from Antarctic and Academy for their "comics."  
The next time I could think of would be in the 1998-2002 timeline.  Nothing RT was coming out at that time, and they were almost willing to work with Yamato to get the Mac Plus toys on US shelves before they changed their minds and screwed us all.
The other time might be immediately following the demise of Sentinels, but they still had the McKinney book money coming in and Macek holding out hope he could keep it all alive.

[jenius]

I don't think it was HG that changed their mind about the toys... I think it was those discussions that unearthed what a debacle the rights were... It might have even been BW realizing they would make NOTHING from those toys that made them adopt their hardline stance with all licensees.

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

You’re just the guy torturing us with the man minmay seizure meme

 

ROFL!!!

It's MinMan!!!

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

Interesting thought experiment.  Imagine you could go back and buy the Robotech or Macross rights from HG.  When would you do it?

Really, the only point where Harmony Gold would probably have been willing to let go of the Macross/Robotech license would've been at that brief period between the disastrous first screening of the Robotech 3000 trailer at FAnimeCon 2000 and the announcement that Robotech 3000 had been cancelled at the 2000 San Diego Comic Con.

Macek's refusal to let Robotech 3000 go, and his fool's errand of trying to negotiate its production as a traditionally animated series after his folly drove Netter Digital to bankruptcy, was what convinced Harmony Gold that Macek's "vision" was unworkable and led to the decision to chuck it all (him included) and start over.  An enterprising soul could've stepped in at the point between the failure of Robotech 3000 at FAnimeCon and the decision to bring in a new staff to reboot the franchise to buy it from them instead since, at that point, it was deader than dead.

[Einherjar]

8 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

When did they do pervy southern cross comics? That might actually make Southern Cross something vaguely resembling almost interesting.

You know, that other comic book in the pipeline with that poser who got burned by Kawamori recently.

The Dana comic book, Robotech Remix.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Einherjar

[Gerli]

I have seen some pics of Breetai in a speedo but.... no, that can't be real.

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, Gerli said:

I have seen some pics of Breetai in a speedo but.... no, that can't be real.

No, that's just the peyote talking. Nothing like that ever happened. Ever. 

[renegadeleader1]

8 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

When did they do pervy southern cross comics? That might actually make Southern Cross something vaguely resembling almost interesting.

Anything HG would do wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as Tatsunoko hiring a pedo with a diaper fetish to do Southern Crosses' original character designs.