Harmony Gold suing Tatsunoko

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Lolicon said:

I remember referring to Robotech as a "bootleg show" once on these forums and some nitwit got all upset about it. 

It's one of those Obi-Wan Kenobi truths... it's true in spirit, but it's not objectively true.

 

8 hours ago, Lolicon said:

If Kawamori and Mikimoto, two of the original creators of Macross, see Robotech as essentially a pirated version of their work, then I'll take that as official recognition of the fact. 

Yeah, if the creators of Macross see Robotech as an illegitimate abuse of their work I'm inclined to agree.

 

 

8 hours ago, JB0 said:

In fairness, part of the reason Robotech takes so much flak is how much time HG has spent talking crap about Real Macross and firing dubious legal threats at Macross fans. It never ends well when you declare war on your customer base.

No one has this much hatred to spare for Voltron, because WEP hasn't been a writhing mass of self-motive dicks to the fanbase. (Also because Golion and Dairugger XV are even smaller footnotes in anime history than MOSPEADA is, but that's neither here nor there.)

Eh... I think it's not even so much that as the fact that GoLion was a dead property in Japan.  

It's like Southern Cross, nobody cares that Robotech bastardized it because nobody would remember it exists at all if not for being included in Robotech.  Beast King GoLion would be just another forgotten squirt in the super robot crowd were it not for WEP using the series to make Voltron.

There's nothing for GoLion fans to feel like they're missing out on because Voltron exists.

Macross fans, on the other hand, know only too well that there's a MASSIVE amount of much higher-quality material they're missing out on because the Robotech series is a thing.  If Macross had been a one-and-done like Beast King GoLion then Robotech wouldn't be catching all that flak for having adapted the original series.

[JB0]

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross fans, on the other hand, know only too well that there's a MASSIVE amount of much higher-quality material they're missing out on because the Robotech series is a thing.  If Macross had been a one-and-done like Beast King GoLion then Robotech wouldn't be catching all that flak for having adapted the original series. 

This is true, but we hated RT and HG back when HG wasn't actively blocking sequel releases, and Plus and II were staples of anime sections in video stores nationwide.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Side topic: as an older person now having been introduced to Go Lion and Dairugger- I actually preferred them over their Voltron adaptations. 

I wouldn't be as adamant about reverting to the originals as I am Macross/ MOSPEADA, but I do like them better personally.

Edited August 3, 2019 by blackconvoy_D01

[Einherjar]

4 hours ago, JB0 said:

There's a few HG-related incidents in specific I'm thinking of, but for a while it seemed like HG's official corporate stance was "Macross fans are scum and we must ensure they can't spread their filth or even enjoy their hobby in private, we will DESTROY THEM AND ALL THEY LOVE MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!".

I'd hoped their attitude was softening after they went back on their word and licensed SDF Macross for an official english release, but things rapidly returned to business-as-usual afterwards.

Never forget.

[Seto Kaiba]

50 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

Never forget.

In all fairness, Harmony Gold's management would probably have preferred not to antagonize Macross fans unduly... but this is the kind of stupid stuff you get when you make a notorious Macross-hating Robotech fanboy troll your head of franchise marketing.  A lot of unprofessional, counterproductive nonsense.

[blackconvoy_D01]

11 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In all fairness, Harmony Gold's management would probably have preferred not to antagonize Macross fans unduly... but this is the kind of stupid stuff you get when you make a notorious Macross-hating Robotech fanboy troll your head of franchise marketing.  A lot of unprofessional, counterproductive nonsense.

OMG, YES!!!

I have been saying this for years! Someone at HG wasted their "education"

In a consumer driven market, why would you beef with a fanbase of the original  that spends on average $80 to $600 per product purchase vs your core base that barely clears $100 per purchase of your derivative?

[Einherjar]

3 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

In a consumer driven market, why would you beef with a fanbase of the original  that spends on average $80 to $600 per product purchase vs your core base that barely clears $100 per purchase of your derivative?

If they waited a couple of years for the troll farms and etc., then it would have been a viable strategy.  Or not, since it was supposed to be about crowdsourcing money instead of picking fights with people. Or was it always about that, even today?

Sorry, I really don’t get all this BS in social media these days.  When the dust settles from that announcement that has just spiraled out of control in just a month everyone just ends up with stuff like this to make excuses for.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

I have been saying this for years! Someone at HG wasted their "education"

... considering that Tommy's the only one with an education even remotely related to his position?  

(Though, really, that means nothing... it feels like it's rarer these days for someone to have an education and job that actually line up.)

It's not really an education problem, IMO.  Kevin's parents just never taught their little boy how to play nice with others... a rather important shortcoming for someone whose main job is handling public relations with Harmony Gold's customer base.

 

5 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

In a consumer driven market, why would you beef with a fanbase of the original  that spends on average $80 to $600 per product purchase vs your core base that barely clears $100 per purchase of your derivative?

Especially when the fans of the original don't just have deeper pockets, they arguably outnumber Robotech fans 5 or 10 to 1 in Harmony Gold's main market (the US).

"Biting the hand that feeds" feels like an apt metaphor, especially when Harmony Gold's entire merchandise line is built around trying to appeal to those same fans of the originals.

 

 

2 hours ago, Einherjar said:

If they waited a couple of years for the troll farms and etc., then it would have been a viable strategy.  Or not, since it was supposed to be about crowdsourcing money instead of picking fights with people. Or was it always about that, even today?

For Banky?  It's always been about picking fights with people.

I doubt Harmony Gold has deep enough pockets to justify hiring a troll farm to defend Robotech.

 

 

[Bolt]

@Einherjar your continual use of that spasming wannabe Minmay is gonna give someone a seizure.

44 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Especially when the fans of the original don't just have deeper pockets, they arguably outnumber Robotech fans 5 or 10 to 1 in Harmony Gold's main market (the US).

I never thought about that. Is it possible there’s more Macross fans than RT fans in the states?

Kevin definitely talks about Macross fans like they’re kindred spirits that hg is trying so hard to bring into the fold.. 

[Lolicon]

I'd say there are way more Macross fans in general, even in the States, especially with newer shows like Frontier and Delta, whereas Robotech has stagnated for 35 years. 

And if there's one thing anime fans can't stand it's editing/censoring/butchering of the original work. You can't get away with that crap in the information age. 

[Bolt]

True. What makes me question it is every time I run into someone who says they’re into anime (usually younger) they never heard of Macross. 

[Gerli]

In Latin America the vast majority are Robotech fans, but the only fans who spent money on new merchandise like toys, figures or BluRays are Almost all of them Macross Fans. The Robotech fan is mostly fueled by nostalgia, they defend the memories of their childhood and don't care about the sh*t HG did in those 35 years. Maybe they are interesed in the movie, but nothing more. The Robotech Fandom is pretty dead.

(As always, sorry for my poor English )

Edited August 4, 2019 by Gerli

[DewPoint]

I would imagine that that is the way of the world.  Robotech has little new content and has difficulty growing its fan base.  Macross has new content and is able to grow it's fan base.  That being said, the average anime fan may not have easy access to Macross outside of Japan.  MW members excluded of course.

[blackconvoy_D01]

47 minutes ago, Bolt said:

True. What makes me question it is every time I run into someone who says they’re into anime (usually younger) they never heard of Macross. 

I've made it a point to spread Macross to the younger generation via my kids, nephews and nieces. Even if they dont like it- they'll ID it.

[Einherjar]

21 hours ago, Bolt said:

@Einherjar your continual use of that spasming wannabe Minmay is gonna give someone a seizure.

Mission accomplished then.  Now people know how the wannabe Zentradi are feeling in this universe.

21 hours ago, Bolt said:

I never thought about that. Is it possible there’s more Macross fans than RT fans in the states?

Kevin definitely talks about Macross fans like they’re kindred spirits that hg is trying so hard to bring into the fold.. 

As I showed, that's because the last time they antagonized purists it set back his franchise for years.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Einherjar

[AN/ALQ128]

14 hours ago, Bolt said:

True. What makes me question it is every time I run into someone who says they’re into anime (usually younger) they never heard of Macross. 

Lots of younger anime fans aren't into mecha shows like Macross, unfortunately.

[Seto Kaiba]

20 hours ago, Bolt said:

I never thought about that. Is it possible there’s more Macross fans than RT fans in the states?

 

 

Oh, almost certainly... Robotech is so obscure and forgotten that you don't really see anything in the way of pop culture references to it.  Voltron had way better brand awareness in the US even before Legendary Defender.

I'm not sure if it's necessarily laudable, but Macross Frontier was one of the most pirated anime properties of 2008... the US and Europe were following the fansubs of the new show almost as strongly as its Gundam contemporary Gundam 00.

You see Macross cosplayers are anime conventions... you don't really see much representation for Robotech apart from the occasional HG booth.

 

20 hours ago, Bolt said:

Kevin definitely talks about Macross fans like they’re kindred spirits that hg is trying so hard to bring into the fold.. 

Only when his bosses are looking over his shoulder.

 

 

15 hours ago, Bolt said:

True. What makes me question it is every time I run into someone who says they’re into anime (usually younger) they never heard of Macross. 

Well, "younger" covers a lot of ground.  Kids in junior high or high school aren't going to be out there torrenting anime on the daily to get the latest shows from Japan, they're going to be watching whatever's being carried on Cartoon Network, Netflix, Hulu, etc.

The group you're going to see getting into Macross is going to be the tech-savvy high schoolers and the college age fans, who have the wherewithal to look for fansubs for newer or less well-exposed shows.

 

 

15 hours ago, Gerli said:

In Latin America the vast majority are Robotech fans, but the only fans who spent money on new merchandise like toys, figures or BluRays are Almost all of them Macross Fans. The Robotech fan is mostly fueled by nostalgia, they defend the memories of their childhood and don't care about the sh*t HG did in those 35 years. Maybe they are interesed in the movie, but nothing more. The Robotech Fandom is pretty dead.

(As always, sorry for my poor English )

Most Robotech fans are basically just closeted Macross fans... they don't really give a flip about any part of Robotech besides "the Macross Saga".

As far as I've seen, that principle holds true even among fans in Latin America.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Most Robotech fans are basically just closeted Macross fans... they don't really give a flip about any part of Robotech besides "the Macross Saga".

As far as I've seen, that principle holds true even among fans in Latin America.

Yeah...when Robotech came out, all I really cared about was the first part (which i later found out was Macross). After finding out Macross was a separate series originally, I made the jump and ditched Southern Confusion--er, I mean Cross, and Mospeada.

[Old_Nash]

On 8/3/2019 at 11:48 PM, Gerli said:

In Latin America the vast majority are Robotech fans, but the only fans who spent money on new merchandise like toys, figures or BluRays are Almost all of them Macross Fans. The Robotech fan is mostly fueled by nostalgia, they defend the memories of their childhood and don't care about the sh*t HG did in those 35 years. Maybe they are interesed in the movie, but nothing more. The Robotech Fandom is pretty dead.

(As always, sorry for my poor English )

Agree. I first meet Robotech 1 month early of Macross (renamed here as Guerra das Galáxias - Galaxies War), in a tv channel.

I mean, both series in exibition in 2 diferents channels.

It don't mention Macross: DYRL, renamed here as Macross: A Batalha Final...

But, Robotech made more sucess than Macross, only because TV channel (Rede GLobo).

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Old_Nash

[Seto Kaiba]

22 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Yeah...when Robotech came out, all I really cared about was the first part (which i later found out was Macross). After finding out Macross was a separate series originally, I made the jump and ditched Southern Confusion--er, I mean Cross, and Mospeada.

Being the first the vast majority of Robotech fans ever saw of Robotech, the foundational story arc underpinning the entire Robotech series, and the best of the three adapted shows, it's not exactly surprising that Macross was the one that stuck with Robotech fans.

(Kind of a disservice to MOSPEADA, if nothing else, since the titular but perpetually out-of-focus MOSPEADA was wicked cool.)

[blackconvoy_D01]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(Kind of a disservice to MOSPEADA, if nothing else, since the titular but perpetually out-of-focus MOSPEADA was wicked cool.)

I love Macross and MOSPEADA is just as awesome in a different way for me.

I give Robotech credit in taking what then was a mediocre/ somewhat decent anime and brought it to light. Despite this- MOSPEADA is better off being it's own thing now. 

[pengbuzz]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Being the first the vast majority of Robotech fans ever saw of Robotech, the foundational story arc underpinning the entire Robotech series, and the best of the three adapted shows, it's not exactly surprising that Macross was the one that stuck with Robotech fans.

(Kind of a disservice to MOSPEADA, if nothing else, since the titular but perpetually out-of-focus MOSPEADA was wicked cool.)

Yeah; I like the actual motorcycle itself. As for the anime, when it was tacked on to Robotech, it was the depressing end to what started out with Macross. But on its' own, it takes on a whole different light.

(On another note: I thought I had posted something like this already in this thread, but it vanished. And I keep noticing that happening with several of my posts. O.o )

Edited August 6, 2019 by pengbuzz

[Gerli]

22 hours ago, Old_Nash said:

 

It don't mention Macross: DYRL, renamed here as Macross: A Batalha Final...

 

 

In Argentina was renamed Macross: La Ciudad Robot (Macross: The Robot City) but was published in VHS, never was show in theaters.

 

[tekering]

Lest we forget...

Note the "Just For Kids" branding.  

On 8/5/2019 at 12:18 PM, Old_Nash said:

Macross: DYRL, renamed here as Macross: A Batalha Final...

1 hour ago, Gerli said:

In Argentina was renamed Macross: La Ciudad Robot (Macross: The Robot City) but was published in VHS, never was show in theaters.

Interesting.  Were the Spanish and Portuguese releases also missing 22 minutes of film?

 

[Old_Nash]

20 minutes ago, tekering said:

Lest we forget...

Note the "Just For Kids" branding.  

Interesting.  Were the Spanish and Portuguese releases also missing 22 minutes of film?

 

I don't remember. I lost my vhs in somewhere in all these years...

Page from Animax magazine #2, in 1996, with vhs cover and some information

(I try to find vhs cover, but it1s out of catalogue and never receive a new release)

[Gerli]

57 minutes ago, tekering said:

 

 

Interesting.  Were the Spanish and Portuguese releases also missing 22 minutes of film?

 

No, the VHS versión was the full movie, gore and everything... the Dub was certainly made in Spain and surprisingly included the Zentradi speech at the beginning. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Gerli

[DewPoint]

I never really thought about it, but that is entirely the wrong SDF-1 on those VHS covers.

[Convectuoso]

9 hours ago, tekering said:

Lest we forget...

Note the "Just For Kids" branding.  

Interesting.  Were the Spanish and Portuguese releases also missing 22 minutes of film?

 

At least in Chile the VHS version wasn't missing anything apart from the Tenshi no Enogu ending

[Knight26]

I had two versions of that.  The usual Clash of the Bionoids censored version, and one that said MACROSS in big bold letters on the cover, same dub, but with the missing footage.  Lost them years ago though, I think I wore them out.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Knight26

[Knight26]

I was bored and did something today that I haven't in probably 4-5 years, waded into the Robotech.com forums.

What a mess. 

The moderation in regards to what belongs in what section is minimal, if any.  Their discussion of the new comic is only 7 pages, and it seems it is largely ignored.  I saw many posts where the fans acknowledge that the series a recut of multiple anime and none of the friendly banter that we share here on MW.  There was even a thread started by a TEENAGE GIRL about whether or not she should get an abortion.

It once again leads me to the conclusion that HG only clings to the license as a means of laundering money.

[Bolt]

Canon fodder for more dark jokes, indeed..

[Gerli]

This thread has more activity in one day that the Official Robotech Forum in a year or so

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

I was bored and did something today that I haven't in probably 4-5 years, waded into the Robotech.com forums.

... dear gods why?

 

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

What a mess. 

So, business as usual?

 

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

The moderation in regards to what belongs in what section is minimal, if any.  Their discussion of the new comic is only 7 pages, and it seems it is largely ignored.  I saw many posts where the fans acknowledge that the series a recut of multiple anime and none of the friendly banter that we share here on MW.  There was even a thread started by a TEENAGE GIRL about whether or not she should get an abortion.

My favorite part is how 99% of the posters aren't even humans... you've got adbots spamming each other's threads incessantly. 

 

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

It once again leads me to the conclusion that HG only clings to the license as a means of laundering money.

  In other late-breaking news, water is wet!  

[Knight26]

Oh the bot thing is definitely true, if you look at the trending threads list most are spambot generated topics.

Though the lack of moderation would likely allow the Lying Macross Purist squad to invade and spread the truth amongst them with relative ease and lack of ban hammering.

[Gerli]

I spam my Fanfiction in the Spanish Anime Forum, so not all are bots