AJAC ?

[Ignacio Ocamica]

7 hours ago, captain america said:

Correct, sir.

Like the Spartas, the Auroran is technically a triple-changer which has a spacecraft mode and that's what I remember most. Once I get past the 1/48 Gamo, I'd be game to tackle something like this, but it's a complex design and I'll easily need 30 orders to cover my time/labor.

Count me in!!!

[jorawar_b]

10 hours ago, captain america said:

Correct, sir.

Like the Spartas, the Auroran is technically a triple-changer which has a spacecraft mode and that's what I remember most. Once I get past the 1/48 Gamo, I'd be game to tackle something like this, but it's a complex design and I'll easily need 30 orders to cover my time/labor.

I would be down with one or two kits if it helps with a group by

[MILKAUTICO]

Count me in. Please in 1/60 scale.

 

[Mechapilot77]

always wanted one of those, and a modern sparta but not sure how much coin i'd drop for one.

[gingaio]

18 hours ago, captain america said:

Correct, sir.

Like the Spartas, the Auroran is technically a triple-changer which has a spacecraft mode and that's what I remember most. Once I get past the 1/48 Gamo, I'd be game to tackle something like this, but it's a complex design and I'll easily need 30 orders to cover my time/labor.

 

Huh, cool. Didn't realize that.

As far as the point about, Well, the whole idea of transforming robots is silly, I sort of get that. But I don't think it's an either/or situation, in which  you either swallow everything or disregard everything. That's why there's good sci-fi and bad. Stuff that contradicted its own internal logic was what always got me...like the technology that allowed for a giant transforming robot couldn't allow for flight without rotors (and before someone mentions Springer, we do need to distinguish between magical robot shows vs mecha shows)? That's why the Turbo Tank in Star Wars always seemed odd to me...like why the wheels, when everything else hovers or flies? 

As far as the convertible look on the Hover Tank, I always figured it was, you know, for casual Sunday drives. 

Anyway, these are the nerd questions that keep me up at night. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by gingaio

[505thAirborne]

If these release early next year, count me in for one!! 

 

[JB0]

47 minutes ago, gingaio said:

Stuff that contradicted its own internal logic was what always got me...like the technology that allowed for a giant transforming robot couldn't allow for flight without rotors (and before someone mentions Springer, we do need to distinguish between magical robot shows vs mecha shows)?

I was going to go to the VF-1, actually. Same argument applies to flight without wings.

[gingaio]

49 minutes ago, JB0 said:

I was going to go to the VF-1, actually. Same argument applies to flight without wings.

The wings are there to hold Budweiser missile cans. Obviously. 

Again, though, I think it's more in terms of degrees than absoluteness, and it's all entirely subjective to boot. Oddly, as I've gotten older, the idea of five robot lions that combine to form the guardian of the galaxy seems totally ridiculous, and yet, a spaceship that houses a teleported island and itself transforms into a vaguely humanoid form is pretty awesome.

Edited September 15, 2017 by gingaio

[CoryHolmes]

I'm in for at least one, Cap'n!  Possibly two, depending on price.

[JB0]

6 hours ago, gingaio said:

The wings are there to hold Budweiser missile cans. Obviously. 

Of course. How foolish of me. Gotta mount the case of Bud somewhere!

 

6 hours ago, gingaio said:

Again, though, I think it's more in terms of degrees than absoluteness, and it's all entirely subjective to boot. Oddly, as I've gotten older, the idea of five robot lions that combine to form the guardian of the galaxy seems totally ridiculous, and yet, a spaceship that houses a teleported island and itself transforms into a vaguely humanoid form is pretty awesome.

Subjective is what matters most. I don't think the AJAC really crosses the "degrees of silly" threshold, it's just that for many of us it is an uninspiring machine from an uninspiring show, and that means the usual suspension of disbelief doesn't kick in because we don't really WANT to like it. And trying to justify it beyond aesthetics and lack of emotional attachment leads to arguments like "space helicopters are stupid but space fighter jets make great sense" and "That is a total partsformer because it has swingarms".

 

I also think the REALISM of the VF series helps a lot. They look like actual friggin' planes in plane mode, whereas the AJAC looks like a collection of panels and parts stacked up to look sort of like a helicopter if you squint... though it is far from the worst offender in that regard, and actually has some charm to it outside of robot mode(which I think is the weakest of the three modes, mostly due to that large, flat, boring plate covering the entire torso).

 

(And I still occasionally smack my hands together and pull them apart like I'm gettin' my sword ready, though it has been a long time since I shouted "form blazing sword". Voltron is still awesome, even if he IS objectively ridiculous. The Defender of the Universe still lives in my heart.)

[gingaio]

10 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Subjective is what matters most. I don't think the AJAC really crosses the "degrees of silly" threshold, it's just that for many of us it is an uninspiring machine from an uninspiring show, and that means the usual suspension of disbelief doesn't kick in because we don't really WANT to like it. And trying to justify it beyond aesthetics and lack of emotional attachment leads to arguments like "space helicopters are stupid but space fighter jets make great sense" and "That is a total partsformer because it has swingarms".

 

I also think the REALISM of the VF series helps a lot. They look like actual friggin' planes in plane mode, whereas the AJAC looks like a collection of panels and parts stacked up to look sort of like a helicopter if you squint... though it is far from the worst offender in that regard, and actually has some charm to it outside of robot mode(which I think is the weakest of the three modes, mostly due to that large, flat, boring plate covering the entire torso).

 

(And I still occasionally smack my hands together and pull them apart like I'm gettin' my sword ready, though it has been a long time since I shouted "form blazing sword". Voltron is still awesome, even if he IS objectively ridiculous. The Defender of the Universe still lives in my heart.)

 

When you brought up the VF-1s, I was thinking that, yeah, that's a good point of comparison--space jet w/ wings vs. space helicopters.

You may be right about our our tolerance for suspension of disbelief being lower for Southern Cross because it's a weaker show. 

I would also add that culturally/historically speaking, space jets with wings are much more normalized--there's more of a tradition in sci-fi films and TV shows--than space choppers, and at the risk of making a post-hoc error, I wonder if the dearth of space choppers vs. space jets in various media is because the former is considered a bit sillier (I mean, the Dropship from Aliens, one of my favorite designs ever, is basically a space chopper with the rotor blades removed). But can you imagine removing the wings from an X-Wing or a Colonial Viper? 

Where we differ on the degrees of silliness, yes, I suppose that's subjective, too. Turning it over in my head, a space chopper does still seem a bit sillier than a space jet with wings, in the way that a Megazord seems a bit sillier than a Mobile Suit, even though both are inherently ridiculous. But I would have to add a big IMO to that. 

[JB0]

Honestly, I think the space chopper's biggest problem is the blades are too high. Jetfighter-wings go through the center of mass(more or less), it makes them work well as attitude thruster booms in all three axes. A helicopter's blade assembly is ABOVE the center of mass, and it makes it kind of wonky for anything other than straight  up or down. 

It'd be better if the booms were lower, so they were aligned with the center of mass instead of above it. And if you rotate them 90 degrees after that you can stick your main engines there and... oh, hey, you have Babylon 5's Starfury. Whoops, that was (mostly) unintentional!

 

For realistic spaceships, something like the Starfury is probably where it's at.

Better yet, go for the blatantly obvious big brother and get a "real" Gunstar. It gets far enough from the concept of airfoils  to stop looking like a weird airplane, and the big "wings" it does have are credible as missile or reaction mass stores.  Also, monster attitude thrusters mounted directly on the main engines(and presumably tapping their large thrust-generating potential) so it can make rapid changes in orientation(See: deathblossom).

 

 

 

But, of course, the AJAC isn't a space-helicopter. It turns into a derpy-looking fighterjet for spaceflight. But hey, in space no one cares how poor your aerodynamics or how slight your wings. And in atmosphere... helicopters don't seem to need great aerodynamics either, based on how real ones look.

So all this analysis was really just a pointless exercise in establishing Gunstar supremacy. A noble cause.

[jorawar_b]

I think both kits ( Auroran and Spartas )  might need to be bigger than 1/60, more like 1/48 or 1/32 because they are smaller mecha compared to the VF-1 or VF-0. I updated a list of people that might be interested in the Auroran and Spartas kit.

[Convectuoso]

11 hours ago, jorawar_b said:

I think both kits ( Auroran and Spartas )  might need to be bigger than 1/60, more like 1/48 or 1/32 because they are smaller mecha compared to the VF-1 or VF-0. I updated a list of people that might be interested in the Auroran and Spartas kit.

Not sure about scale, but 14 - 20 cm would be enough for me

[Ignacio Ocamica]

13 hours ago, jorawar_b said:

I think both kits ( Auroran and Spartas )  might need to be bigger than 1/60, more like 1/48 or 1/32 because they are smaller mecha compared to the VF-1 or VF-0. I updated a list of people that might be interested in the Auroran and Spartas kit.

I'm in for the Spartas too, you can add me to the list for it too.

[Hiriyu]

On 9/15/2017 at 0:41 AM, gingaio said:

Where we differ on the degrees of silliness, yes, I suppose that's subjective, too. Turning it over in my head, a space chopper does still seem a bit sillier than a space jet with wings, in the way that a Megazord seems a bit sillier than a Mobile Suit, even though both are inherently ridiculous. But I would have to add a big IMO to that. 

 

Your degrees of silliness comment recalls something my stepbrother told me back when I was 12 and building a 1/72 variable Valkyrie kit. He was a few years older and of a very regimented turn of mind (he later studied as an astrophysicist at an Ivy league school). He took a look at the model I was building, the instructions, and the box art, and quite magnaminously declared, "Wow. This is much less stupid than all of those other robots you have."  It was quite the compliment.

 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Hiriyu
I'm a moron

[JB0]

Macross: It's less stupid than all those other robots.

[enphily]

I want 1/60 Spartan, but price really matter to me

[jenius]

1 hour ago, enphily said:

I want 1/60 Spartan, but price really matter to me

The old Matchbox toy is 1/18 scale. A 1/60 Spartan would be teeny tiny.. like 10cm tall in "battloid". 

[captain america]

9 hours ago, enphily said:

I want 1/60 Spartan, but price really matter to me

I think maybe you mean "Spartas" and not "Spartan"?

[enphily]

26 minutes ago, captain america said:

I think maybe you mean "Spartas" and not "Spartan"?

Oh, yes.

[renegadeleader1]

18 hours ago, JB0 said:

Macross: It's less stupid than all those other robots.

Until Macross Seven and Frontier happened.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, renegadeleader1 said:

Until Macross Seven and Frontier happened.

Even after Macross 7 and Frontier happened they were still miles ahead of anything Southern Cross's designers came up with... Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross was phoned in so hard that over ninety percent of the mecha in it don't even have NAMES.

[tekering]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross was phoned in so hard that over ninety percent of the mecha in it don't even have NAMES.

Your colorful prose and gift for exaggeration is most appreciated, but you should limit your talents to expressing opinions, not stating facts.  Statements like this are tantamount to spreading disinformation.

While there were a lot of ancillary mecha designs produced for Southern Cross, few of them were actually depicted in the anime.  Unused designs are typically published without specific designations (if published at all), regardless of who designed them or how much work when into their development.

I do agree wholeheartedly with your opinion, however; many of Ammonite's mecha designs have a distinctly "phoned-in" feel to them.  

[jorawar_b]

almost half way, spread the word my Macross brothers let see if we can get this project to become reality

[Major Tom]

I'm down for 1.

Someone here should contact member:

1st Border Red Devil

  He'll probably want one of these AJAC in any form.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, tekering said:

Your colorful prose and gift for exaggeration is most appreciated, but you should limit your talents to expressing opinions, not stating facts.  Statements like this are tantamount to spreading disinformation.

While there were a lot of ancillary mecha designs produced for Southern Cross, few of them were actually depicted in the anime.  Unused designs are typically published without specific designations (if published at all), regardless of who designed them or how much work when into their development.

Unfortunately, if I did exaggerate it was only slightly.  

At the behest of 1st Border Red Devil and other Southern Cross fans, I've done a fair amount of digging into Southern Cross's mecha via the show's one artbook and a double handful of magazine articles, color inserts, and leaflets for the series.  Virtually everything in those publications is in the series proper, even if some of them only appear in the massed charge in the OP, but only a couple designs in the series actually have names.  Basically it's just the three main robots, the GMP Garm, the Flash Clapper hoverbike, Arming Doublet, Bioroid, and Biover.  Everything else is nameless, as far as official publications go... which for a translator used to excesses of detail, is beyond frustrating.

(The Japanese Wikipedia page for the series is, unfortunately, extremely misleading because it has been extensively vandalized with Robotech RPG content by Yui Yuasa.)

 

6 hours ago, tekering said:

I do agree wholeheartedly with your opinion, however; many of Ammonite's mecha designs have a distinctly "phoned-in" feel to them.  

I do have a soft spot for the Auroran tho.  The Sikorsky S-72 "X-Wing" was a neat little concept aircraft, so it was nice to see a fully-realized version as a transforming robot.  I might be interested in a kit if one became available, just because it's such an atypical design for the period.

I feel like there was a lot more passion in the earlier concept for Science Fiction Sengoku Saga.

[jorawar_b]

1 hour ago, Major Tom said:

I'm down for 1.

Someone here should contact member:

1st Border Red Devil

  He'll probably want one of these AJAC in any form.

Would you be able to reach out to him?

[Lorindor]

On 2017-09-14 at 6:33 AM, captain america said:

Correct, sir.

Like the Spartas, the Auroran is technically a triple-changer which has a spacecraft mode and that's what I remember most. Once I get past the 1/48 Gamo, I'd be game to tackle something like this, but it's a complex design and I'll easily need 30 orders to cover my time/labor.

Are we talking about a kit that can be made into any mode or just a single mode? Regardless, I am interested in one.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Lorindor

[Seto Kaiba]

23 minutes ago, Lorindor said:

Are we talking about a kit that can be made into any mode or just a single mode? Regardless, I am interested in one.

Eh, to hell with it.

Regardless of whether the kit transforms or not.  Count me in for one.

[captain america]

20 minutes ago, Lorindor said:

Are we talking about a kit that can be made into any mode or just a single mode? Regardless, I am interested in one.

One kit that could be built in any of the 3 modes (Crusader, Cross-Fighter, Cosmo-Sniper)

Based on the few numerical values I could find, it would be somewhere in the range of 21-24 long in Crusader (fighter) mode, once properly scaled to 1/48. I wouldn't consider the current thread as anything more than just a project primer at best, simply because people can be rather fickle over long wait periods.

[jorawar_b]

Honestly and non variable version if the AJAC's  with the Rotors on or off I would take, hopefully it would be easier to make and keep cost simple and same goes for the Spartas.

If enough interest is there maybe one in Robot mode down the road

[DarkArchon3000]

8 hours ago, captain america said:

One kit that could be built in any of the 3 modes (Crusader, Cross-Fighter, Cosmo-Sniper)

I guess I'm going to want a kit for each mode.

Edited September 19, 2017 by DarkArchon3000

[CoryHolmes]

24" long is ginormous for a model kit!

[tekering]

1 hour ago, CoryHolmes said:

24" long is ginormous for a model kit!

No, not inches.  21-24 centimeters.

Our illustrious Captain America is (ironically enough) Canadian.