Macross Δ (Delta) Movie Gekijō no Walkūre (Passionate Walkure)

[Focslain]

29 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah, you missed out.  Macross Frontier really hit its stride starting in the fifth episode.

Mikumo's basically modeled on Sheryl from the first four episodes, when she was busy being Queen Bitch half the time.  Mikumo's professional interest in Freyja closely mirrors the advice Sheryl gave to Ranka when they met near the Macross Quarter's dock and had to wait out a hull breach repair in an emergency shelter.  

It was actually really frustrating how blatant they were about it.  Really, almost the entire Delta cast came with shades of it... Xaos being a low-rent SMS knockoff complete with an off-brand Macross Quarter and Roid's entire master plan being nicked from Grace's in the Macross Frontier TV series.  It was kind of weird how committed they were to it, with Xaos having the same "we're testing the next-gen VF for the military" excuse SMS had for having better gear than the NUNS and the VF-31 even sharing a majority of its systems with the VF-25.

Seems about right on the timing, Frontier isn't the first nor the last series I stopped at just prior to the good parts.

From my movie watching, yeah full agree on the recycling of the prior series. That seems to be a trend these days with franchise series, which is sad.

Quote

Rules being rules, that kind of direction has to be done under the proverbial radar... don't wanna step on any administrative toes, y'know?

Also understanding and if I could get a legit sub of the series I'd budget out for in a heart-beat. But let be ok for one and the flood gates open...

[Master Dex]

For the record Seto, I don't agree with the idea of Delta inspiring people to think M2 is better than they thought. It shouldn't take a flawed show to convince people to accept something older. I framed the idea as a joke for that reason. I myself have no direct opinion on M2 as I have not taken the time to watch it fully. I've only seen bits and pieces. Delta would not influence my view of it at all. 

[SMS007]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/macrossdelta/permalink/1907062372931373/

Wow, Grasion, Elysion, and Megasion together in formation almost makes me like the movie! Almost.

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, Focslain said:

From my movie watching, yeah full agree on the recycling of the prior series. That seems to be a trend these days with franchise series, which is sad.

Eh... you usually see an upward trend in reused material as a growing metaseries ages.  Macross always felt like it was the exception that tests the rule thanks to Kawamori insisting on treating Macross more like a shared universe and making each new series a largely stand-alone story.  Macross Delta's sudden adoption of a more Gundam-esque form letter reuse of plots and tropes and its plethora of expy characters feels really weird and out of place as a result even if it makes the series more like what you'd expect the product of a typical long-running anime franchise to be.

 

35 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Wow, Grasion, Elysion, and Megasion together in formation almost makes me like the movie! Almost.

It's one of Macross Delta: Passionate Walkure's better moments... but it loses a certain je ne sais quoi when you notice that all of it is lifted from Macross Frontier with the Sigur Berrentzs standing in for Battle Galaxy.

[charles88]

After Watching Macross Delta movie, Delta movie officially my 2nd favorite Macross movie with Frontier 2nd movie are 1st. Here Pros and Cons Pros - The dogfight scene are to me best in entire Macross franchise especially Messer vs Keith and final battle. I even says its even better than Frontier movie dogfight scene.(Alto do not want to fight against Brera and mostly try avoid him)(Hell Messer won and die even more sad and awesome) and more action - Movie VF new equipment are awesome especially Armored Pack, VF-31 ghost booster and Mirage Draken 3. To me its even better than Tornado pack. Also more Macross ship action - Mirage and ayate are more likable than Series version. Also Mirage in Movie are more skilled and badass than Series version -Music are even more awesome series version. - Highlight that NUNS are actually more heroic competent , less trigger happy on using illegal WMD and less corrupt(they still perform illegal operation on stealing Star Singer DNA) as they manage to end Windemere war in shorter time and lesser casualty WITHOUT using WMD. - No boring filer . -Roid in movie are better villain and just as sympathetic as he try to save his race dying from their short lifespan but doing it in wrong way. Con -Pacing a bit too fast - Winderemere role get cut short with Keith and Bogue are main role. - Technically improve rehash like Frontier Movie. - No new VF Overall its great Macross movie. The reason Frontier 2nd movie are still my most fav Macross movie are its 2nd half story of Frontier are better than series version, more original story,better song(by close margin). better space battle and Macross action than Delta movie and have actual new VF which become 3rd most fav VF, YF-29 Durandal I give Delta Movie 9.35/10 (Frontier movie 2 are 9.5) Ranking for my fav Macross movie 1st Macross Frontier Movie 2 2nd Macross Delta Movie 3rd Macross Plus Movie 4th Macross DRYL 5th Macross Frontier Movie 1

[seti88]

Delta above plus and DYRL??  Made an oldie like me spit my coffee! 

its ok, if you like it you like it.....  no harm done!

I enjoy aspects of the walkure and the valks, but i admit am biased with plus..

Edited September 11, 2018 by seti88

[Karaoke Ninja]

13 hours ago, seti88 said:

Delta above plus and DYRL??  Made an oldie like me spit my coffee! 

its ok, if you like it you like it.....  no harm done!

I enjoy aspects of the walkure and the valks, but i admit am biased with plus..

I'd actually put Delta above Plus too. Plus was very pretty but I didn't find the main story very interesting and both Isamu and Guld were very unlikable characters to me. Guld especially with how much he borderlined on being a psychopath.

[dragonstar1982]

47 minutes ago, Karaoke Ninja said:

I'd actually put Delta above Plus too. Plus was very pretty but I didn't find the main story very interesting and both Isamu and Guld were very unlikable characters to me. Guld especially with how much he borderlined on being a psychopath.

You know I was thinking that I was alone with not liking plus that much. I love the mech designs but I agree about the story and characters

[Master Dex]

2 hours ago, Karaoke Ninja said:

I'd actually put Delta above Plus too. Plus was very pretty but I didn't find the main story very interesting and both Isamu and Guld were very unlikable characters to me. Guld especially with how much he borderlined on being a psychopath.

 

1 hour ago, dragonstar1982 said:

You know I was thinking that I was alone with not liking plus that much. I love the mech designs but I agree about the story and characters

I mean I do really like Plus, especially in the movie format... but Kawamori said it himself about it: "It's a serious story with a silly plot." So yeah... for all the love it gets and deserves to a large degree... it's not really the apex of Macross storytelling we often hold it up to be.

[seti88]

That's life. A serious story with a silly plot or sometimes its the other way round  

back to passionate walkure discussions...

[kajnrig]

All of you can BURN IN HELL

*cries in the corner*

 

Anyway, the surprising praise for the movie convinced me to give the BD a shot. Maybe I'll sell it off to someone here when I'm done with it, maybe I'll keep it. I dunno. But while it's on its way, I went ahead and found a, ahem, digital copy. In my 20 minutes of it so far, my impressions are... kind of middle of the road. It's not bad, but then again neither was the first half of the show for the most part. I do like some of the streamlining decisions they made.

Freyja no longer starts off making her way to one audition, missing it, then going to the second audition on Ragna. Here the Ragna auditions are over before she even enters the story, and she and Walkure et al just happen to be in the same area during a firefight and Hayate discovers her. Speaking of whom, they took a cue from DYRL and Hayate starts out already a member of Delta Squadron instead of having to eventually join.

The Jackass is still The Jackass, though, and the scenes leading up to him being The Jackass - Freyja discovering she only really works well under duress - doesn't really work for me. She auditions for Walkure, they find her lacking and postulate that she might be better when stressed, and then the movie suddenly transitions to her and Hayate having their night-time "Rune Ga Pikatto Hikattara" flying session, and I think the intention is that this is where both she finds her resolve and their romance begins. Then The Jackass interrupts and gives Hayate a dressing down for... no reason except that The Jackass is The Jackass.

The missing key to their "Aha!" moment, though, is danger. Neither of them are worried about themselves/each other during their night flight, so there's nothing to impel them to up their game. If The Jackass attacked them during their relaxing night flight, that would have worked better. Both get the high-stakes situation they need, and Walkure's hypothesis from the previous scene is proven correct. Messer can explain to Hayate afterward that they were testing that hypothesis instead of chewing him out for no discernible reason. (This scene would have the added benefit of showing how closely Delta and Walkure work together.) Maybe he even ribs Hayate about it a bit, but just a little bit. Just enough so that you can tell there's more to him than just being The Jackass.

Anyway, now it's onto the onsen scene everyone was talking about, and the dialogue that transitions the scene into the past is kinda janky - "You remind me of how we used to be." ""Yeah, that sure brings back memories. Let me tell you them: <Exposition>." - but eh, what are ya gonna do.

That's about it for me so far. Will be back with more commentary and/or a fuller impression later.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

If it were any other Macross movie that people were saying Macross Plus came up second best to, I could see it... but Passionate Walkure?  

Y'all know that an irish coffee is made with whiskey and not absinthe, right?  

Macross Plus might be the un-Macross in terms of its writing, but it's a million billion light years ahead of a cynical marketing tie-in cash grab like Passionate Walkure.

For those who roll into town early for SDCon, I'm gonna try and find a venue to screen the movie for those who haven't seen it yet.

[Karaoke Ninja]

22 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If it were any other Macross movie that people were saying Macross Plus came up second best to, I could see it... but Passionate Walkure?  

Y'all know that an irish coffee is made with whiskey and not absinthe, right?  

Macross Plus might be the un-Macross in terms of its writing, but it's a million billion light years ahead of a cynical marketing tie-in cash grab like Passionate Walkure.

For those who roll into town early for SDCon, I'm gonna try and find a venue to screen the movie for those who haven't seen it yet.

Call Passionate Walkure what you want but it was still more fun to me than Plus. Plus was boring outside of the dogfights and even the music wasn't that good besides Dog Fight and Information High. Highly overrated series.

[JB0]

Honestly, in some respects Plus is the most Macrossy Macross since the original.

I think it is the only other Macross with characters that feel like real people to me. Not GOOD people, but real ones.

I think most of us know an Isamu that never grew up and treats everything like a game, a Myung that gave up on their dreams and is hopelessly lost in life, or a Guld that takes everything too seriously, blames others for his failings, and acts like a colossal prick if you aren't as uptight as him. 

... 

And then the robot brainwashes the Earth and Peter Pan has to kamikaze the Pentagon.

[Master Dex]

50 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If it were any other Macross movie that people were saying Macross Plus came up second best to, I could see it... but Passionate Walkure?  

Y'all know that an irish coffee is made with whiskey and not absinthe, right?  

Macross Plus might be the un-Macross in terms of its writing, but it's a million billion light years ahead of a cynical marketing tie-in cash grab like Passionate Walkure.

For those who roll into town early for SDCon, I'm gonna try and find a venue to screen the movie for those who haven't seen it yet.

Well, I wasn't saying that much, lol.

I'd love to get in on that, sadly to save money re: accommodations I'm basically driving down to Torrence the morning of the con (I live like 3 hours away) so I'll likely not be available when you do this screening unfortunately (plus I have work the day before anyway).

[Seto Kaiba]

30 minutes ago, Karaoke Ninja said:

Call Passionate Walkure what you want but it was still more fun to me than Plus. Plus was boring outside of the dogfights and even the music wasn't that good besides Dog Fight and Information High. Highly overrated series.

Macross Plus's story had some real substance to it, even if it was a much darker story than Macross's usual fare on account of the cast being older and containing several individuals with serious psychological baggage.  All the same, every main character in the OVA was well-developed, believably flawed, and interesting enough to hold the audience's attention.  The only real weak point the OVA had was the weird, experimental music that didn't bring enough memorable tunes.

Passionate Walkure's biggest problem was its source material.  Macross Delta suffered from appallingly poor writing.  There's just no excuse for so completely forgetting to develop the antagonists as characters that it's left to a standalone manga to give them any development at all, or that ninety percent of the protagonists don't even get that much.  The movie does nothing to fix that... they just plow ahead at a pace that makes it harder to notice that the story's a lazy knockoff of Frontier's and that all but three or four cast members barely get the same development Fire Bomber's missing member cardboard standees got in 7.  It's "fun", but completely forgettable and utterly devoid of substance outside of its music.

For that reason, I can't bring myself to take seriously any ranking that would put Delta above any competently-written Macross title.  If you don't have engaging characters who develop as events progress, you don't really have a story.

[BlackRose]

Maybe if you were judging them just on music you could say the Delta movie ranks above Plus, but if any other factor besides how likeable the main character is is in play then no way. To me it's more like FB2012 as a music video with hints of a story.

[Sanity is Optional]

..I actually liked the music from Plus more than Delta...

Then again, I like techno, and I like Yoko Kanno. A lot of the best stuff got seriously cut short in the OVA/Movie as well, and the full versions on the albums are better.

As to the movies. Delta's movie was an improvement over the TV series, whereas Plus' OVA is by far my favorite between it and the movie. However the starting points (Delta's TV series vs Plus' OVA) are so far apart I still put Plus' movie above Delta's.

After just recently doing a re-watch of SDF Macross and DYRL, I'll have to say that those two have the largest improvement from Series to Movie though. I didn't actually hate Minmay or Kaifun in the movie, the music was better, the animations and especially the fighting scenes were amazingly better.

 

As to movies, I'd rate them:

1. DYRL
2. Plus
3. Frontier
4. Delta

Maybe swapping Frontier/Delta's places depending on how I feel that day.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Sanity is Optional

[Marzan]

I must enhance my calm when I read that for some, Walkure Delta is better than Plus. Take deep breaths, count to 10, remember different strokes for different folks. Breathe in ...

but not liking Plus’ soundtrack is punishable by banishment to the seventh circle of hell.

[Karaoke Ninja]

I'm a little disappointed with some of these replies I'm reading. You can't criticize or say anything negative about SDF or Plus without getting some passive aggressive comments and snarky replies apparently. I'm starting to remember why I left this community.

[Marzan]

1 hour ago, Karaoke Ninja said:

I'm a little disappointed with some of these replies I'm reading. You can't criticize or say anything negative about SDF or Plus without getting some passive aggressive comments and snarky replies apparently. I'm starting to remember why I left this community.

I don’t know if it’s me specifically you’re referring too. In any case, I’d just like to point out that I wrote it with a smile in my face but that clearly cannot be seen by the reader (must work harder on my emoji use ). No nastiness meant

[charles88]

Ill point that reason I put Delta movie above Plus movie was that Macross Plus movie just rehash of OVA with 3% of the original content in movie like Guld gdogfight fight X-9 Ghost and introduction of Guld and Isamu reunion, Delta has more original content, improve Delta overall plot and better action scene than series vesion. Dogfight  between Messer and Keith are better than Plus as Plus dogfight only show at the end movie are still conventional maneuver and slower than Delta. Although due to YF-19 and YF-21 build before EX-gear prevent them perform crazy high G maneuver like Messer vs Keith and Guld use that maneuver end up kill himself and also no actual Macross ship battle.. The reason I still rank high due to YF-19 are one of my most favorite VF and its my first Macross Movie to watch. The reason DYRL rank lower than Delta due to 85 % of Movie are romance plot and drama. Also Space battle a bit lacking and  dogfight too short. Rank higher due to more original content. You cannot biased on DYRL solely on nostalgia.

 

Like in review, Frontier Movie 2 are my most favorite as its has more original content and ACTUALLY FIX entire 2nd half of Frontier series. Space battle also more awesome than Series finale version and Grace actually more realistic. I mean you cannot erase emotion that easily and shows that due to raising Sheryl, she actually realize her mistake and change her mind. The reason she still follow Galaxy conspirator,due to they take control her mind and finally SMS get to fight true villain of Frontier series, Galaxy leaders in movie. Also movie has actual new VF, YF-29.

 

By the way what do you guys think of VF-31 Armored pack?

Edited September 12, 2018 by charles88

[Master Dex]

It's a discussion forum, people share opinions here, both sides of the coin. If people aren't allowed to voice disagreement than they shouldn't agree either. We'd have nothing left to talk about then. 

Plus sarcasm is like life for some of us lol. 

[charles88]

That my opinion on movie. Also I dont agree on rating on movie very high solely on nostalgic only. Im only saying that rating on DYRL movie high solely on nostalgia only are not reliable as DYRL to me have fair share of flaw. . Its like rating Gundam ZZ higher than Gundam 00 because Nostalgia, despite ZZ actually has poorer story.

Just saying dont put DYRL pedestal too high.

Edited September 12, 2018 by charles88

[jenius]

But DYRL is amazing. It's absolutely beautiful, the fight choreography is fantastic, and it has good music without obviously being a commercial for the music. I put it on a pedestal because it's great, not just because it's a rehash of a series I love. It also takes that story and modernizes so many elements in slight and believable ways enhancing the universe. 

Plus is good, the first Frontier movie is absolutely dreadful, the second Frontier movie is better but needs that dreadful first movie to be a complete story (and I'm not feeling a surfing capital ship), and I'm looking forward to some day seeing the Delta movie. MacrossII also exists.

[Sanity is Optional]

I only watched DYRL the first time last month, I'd never seen it before. It's actually good even without nostalgia.

[Marzan]

I’ve played DYRL to some people who are not into Macross (or any space opera for that matter) and they were in absolute and utter awe of the art/animation. So if anything else that is special even with objective criteria.

[Chronocidal]

4 hours ago, jenius said:

But DYRL is amazing. It's absolutely beautiful, the fight choreography is fantastic, and it has good music without obviously being a commercial for the music. I put it on a pedestal because it's great, not just because it's a rehash of a series I love. It also takes that story and modernizes so many elements in slight and believable ways enhancing the universe. 

Plus is good, the first Frontier movie is absolutely dreadful, the second Frontier movie is better but needs that dreadful first movie to be a complete story (and I'm not feeling a surfing capital ship), and I'm looking forward to some day seeing the Delta movie. MacrossII also exists.

DYRL will always be a high mark I think, but what's funny to me about it is that, outside of the tunes taken from SDFM and the main theme, I think it really only had a single soundtrack theme throughout the entire movie.  It was remixed and re-orchestrated to fit every scene it was used in, and gave a consistent feel to the movie in a strange but very memorable way.  Maybe that was just me though.

To me, Plus stands out specifically because it is so different, so serious, and works on such a small scale compared with the rest of the franchise.  It's absolutely part of a larger universe, but it boils the story down to where the focus is entirely on the main three (four?) characters, and you get a more complete picture of them, compared with stories involving a ton of people whose entire characterization depends on visual appearance, and a few expository statements.  It's the more subtle characterization that makes the characters stand out, and makes them more interesting.  But then again, I'm biased because Plus was my first exposure to the franchise, the designs are my favorites of the franchise, and I love the soundtrack to death.  The music is an odd thing though.. it's absolutely fitting to the visuals, and it's really effective at setting the mood, but it's also strange and unconventional in ways that make you wonder what you're listening to, and even question why you're listening to it... but that's kind of Yoko Kanno in a nutshell, I think.

If anything, the Delta movie felt a lot more effective at characterization to me specifically because it was so much shorter, and there wasn't time to hit the viewer over the head with all the exposition they used to pad out the series.

Funny random side-thought, that only now occurred to me:  Who wants to bet the illegal neural network chip that ran Sharon's AI involved components made of fold quartz?  I don't know if that has been mentioned officially, or discussed elsewhere, but it would probably fit the situation.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Chronocidal

[GabrielV]

I just got my BD of the movie today.  I couldn't wait to watch it.  I'm fresh off my first viewing.

To those who liked it, please don't be offended by what I'm about to type.  I'm glad you enjoyed it.  I wish I could have.

I didn't enjoy the movie at all.  I felt it was bad even by the standards of a compilation movie.  I'm tempted to go into hyperbole, but I won't.  I'm just left feeling very disappointed.

I wanted to like it.  I really did.

[jenius]

If your disgust makes you want to sell the movie at a steep discount, let me know!

[davidwhangchoi]

is this a good movie?

[Seto Kaiba]

18 hours ago, Karaoke Ninja said:

I'm a little disappointed with some of these replies I'm reading. You can't criticize or say anything negative about SDF or Plus without getting some passive aggressive comments and snarky replies apparently. I'm starting to remember why I left this community.

People here are quite open to legitimate, thoughtful criticism of Super Dimension Fortress Macross and/or Macross Plus.

It's kind of easy to view the stuff you posted as obvious bait... which, of course, won't get much in the way of positive responses.

 

 

12 hours ago, charles88 said:

Dogfight  between Messer and Keith are better than Plus [...]

If the painfully dull, repetitive dogfights in Macross Delta weren't the #1 complaint about the series they were easily in the top three.  They use exactly ONE maneuver for the entirety of the series, and almost never use the transformation system.  Plus had enough variety that the dogfights never got samey.  Keith vs. Messer, regardless of version, is a one-trick affair... it's like the scissors is the only maneuver they know.

 

12 hours ago, charles88 said:

By the way what do you guys think of VF-31 Armored pack?

It's an ugly, graceless kludge of pieces of previous CG models.  (No, really... it's made out of parts of the Tornado Pack, Cheyenne Destroid, and VF-25 Armored Pack.)

IMO, it feels almost like a fan design.  Like someone was picking and choosing pieces of previous, iconic designs from older Macross features and sticking them together.  It's so over the top that, to me, it kind of feels like what I'd expect to get from a min-maxing munchkin in a Macross RPG if I let them design their own custom FAST pack.  You've got the heavy quantum beam cannon turret from the Tornado Pack, the VF-25 Armored's CIWS launchers, the VF-171EX's reaction missile containers, that movie trailer-exclusive Konig Monster's forearm-mounted rotary cannons... all on one design.

Specs-wise, I have a hard time even thinking of it as an Armored Pack.  The defining trait of the Armored Pack is that it offers a substantial boost to the VF's defensive strength with additional layers of reactive armor, energy conversion armor, better grades of energy conversion armor material, and on later models supplements to the pinpoint barrier system.  I don't see that in the VF-31 Armored Pack.  It's ALL offense, all the time.  I would have called it something else, like a Stampede Pack, Storming Pack, or Attack Pack.

 

12 hours ago, charles88 said:

That my opinion on movie. Also I dont agree on rating on movie very high solely on nostalgic only. Im only saying that rating on DYRL movie high solely on nostalgia only are not reliable as DYRL to me have fair share of flaw. . Its like rating Gundam ZZ higher than Gundam 00 because Nostalgia, despite ZZ actually has poorer story.

Just saying dont put DYRL pedestal too high.

... 

...

...

Ah, No.  Just no.  There have been a lot of silly things said to try to defend Delta, but this takes the cake.  Macross: Do You Remember Love? is the quintessential Macross experience.  Its mechanical and character designs set the tone for the entire franchise to follow.  It gave us the #1 song in all of Macross.  It's even a famous and highly influential film inside the universe of Macross.  It has NEVER depended on nostalgia for its appeal.  There is a reason that EVERY major Macross series since DYRL? came out has referenced it... it's just THAT good and that beloved by fans.  Nobody needs to put DYRL? on a pedestal... it BUILT the pedestal, and the Macross franchise while it was at it.

As far your analogy... I can only think of one Gundam show that would've been less appropriate, and that's G-Reco.  I've never seen anybody rank ZZ highly... to every Gundam fan I know, it's "that one show" that everybody watches ONCE out of obligation but nobody really likes and is regarded as memetically stupid.  To most fans I know, it was Gundam's worst show until Reconguista in G came along and became the new hate sink.

 

 

17 minutes ago, davidwhangchoi said:

is this a good movie?

Depends which standard you're using to measure good-ness.

As a Macross feature?  Not really.

As an anime movie in its own right?  Kinda, yeah.  It's a fun but forgettable popcorn movie.

One of its biggest problems is that the word Macross is in the title... so it's marked to MUCH higher standards than it would otherwise have been.  If it didn't have to live up to that name, folks would be a lot kinder to it.

[davidwhangchoi]

i was looking at it on amazon and thinking of getting it. i thought the 1st half of delta was good. so i'm hoping the movie is the like the first 10 episodes. 

[kajnrig]

Finished watching this last night, wanted to wait a day to marshal my thoughts. Spoiler tags for, well, spoilers, but mostly for a wall of text.

tl;dr - Word of mouth got me cautiously optimistic for this movie, and while it did some things well - streamlining the overall plot by removing lots and lots and lots of chaff, expanding/remixing one character in particular - it's still too much of a straight compilation movie, and a compilation movie of a terribly disappointing show at that. The editing to consolidate the story is good, but the scene to scene editing is sometimes amateurish. The music is hit or miss, just like it was in the series. The new footage/budget goes almost entirely to a single concert. Ultimately, it's a better attempt at the same story, but the story itself is the problem, not the way it's told.

 

Picking up where I left off last post:

I found the bath scene fine, on balance. It has some serious problems, but the flashbacks do interesting things for Kaname's character in particular. I hate everything about Mikumo. I hate that the writers still haven't the foggiest idea what they're doing with her. (Case in point: She hears the others singing in the bath... while submerged in the sea surrounded by bioluminescent jellyfish??? She then smiles, surfaces, and does a little call and response with them that signifies... something significant I'm sure was the intent, but in truth it came across as nonsensical.)

The scene that follows once they get the movie rolling again:

Mikumo: "Freyja, what feeling do you sing with?"
Freyja (understandably confused): "Huh? Well..."
Mikumo (rudely, before Freyja can finish thinking up her response): "Don't answer with your words." THEN WHY THE frakk DID YOU ASK HER!?!?!? "Ignite my soul with your song. If you can't, then Walkure has no need for you." (cue my eyes rolling so hard they bowl a set of strikes)

Once Windermere declares war, Mikumo casually suggests at a briefing that Freyja might be a spy (same thing happened in the show IIRC). Given what we know of Mikumo, one wonders why she would have an understanding of espionage and the wherewithal to bring it up and not, say, have an understanding of social etiquette and respect and the wherewithal to apply it to her conversations with Freyja (and really anyone else). Literally every line of dialogue that comes out of her mouth makes me want to pull my hair out.

Sigh. So suffice it to say that the movie fails to fix Mikumo. It also fails to fix Messer, both of which do unintended splash damage to the one character whom the film does the best job of remixing for the movie, Kaname. As said before, the flashback does interesting things for her; namely, her almost one-sided rivalry with Mikumo is explicitly laid out, and her competitive nature comes out more. The movie also drops her "failed idol" backstory - I actually forget if that's specifically what she was in the series, but at any rate, in the movie she's in the prime of her solo career when she gets recruited for Walkure. Throughout the movie she's shown acting more explicitly as the leader of Walkure - and an effective one, at that -  despite Mikumo sometimes taking center stage and possessing the raw singing prowess. This makes for an interesting twist on what was already one of the better-realized of Delta's characters. (Or maybe I'm just biased because she's Best Girl, I dunno.)

Hayate and Freyja, the "stars" of the movie... or so the first half of the film would have you believe... are rushed through their romance by (as you might have guessed) the halfway mark of the film, so there's never any tension there. After that, they get shoved aside for Messer and Mikumo's contrived dramatics, so unfortunately, they never get a truly satisfying end to their story, either.

The rest of the cast retreats from the spotlight, and this is a blessing in disguise, as many people have pointed out. Arad and Chuck get reduced almost entirely to just Hero Poses, which is fine by me as it makes them look way more competent and impressive than they perhaps are. (Chuck's recurring "Oohrah, Sir!" also elicited a mental fist pump every time it repeated itself.) Mirage's burgeoning romantic feelings for Hayate are excised almost entirely, which also presents her as far more competent, and so on and so forth.

The movie's one major success is Kaname, its major faults are Messer and Mikumo (for failing to fix them, and indeed for not realizing they are problematic to begin with) and Hayate and Freyja (for leaving their stories prematurely finished), and its incidental successes are the rest of the cast (which is more of an indictment than a compliment).

On the technical aspects of the movie:

Midway through the movie they put on a concert that contains... I want to say 90% of all the new footage (and budget) for the film. The scene is done entirely as high-quality 3D animation, and it's quite well animated and choreographed, even if the dissonant art style did throw me for a loop at first. I'm very much looking forward to seeing this scene on BD with optimal bitrate; the compressed video does this scene no favors at all.

The editing overall is clever and, again, significantly streamlines the story, but the immediate editing, the stitching from scene to scene, is sometimes jarringly bad. Three examples:

1) Once Windermere show up to the aforementioned concert, Walkure go from new black-and-white costumes in one shot to their Rau Blume costumes from the show (the white and blue school uniform-ish looking ones) in the next. Later on, more footage from the show is recycled but the Walkure are digitally altered to be wearing their new costumes (or at least I think those costumes are new ones...), so there's certainly no reason why they couldn't have replaced their Rau Blume costumes, too.

2) The second "fight" between Messer and Keith also has a bizarre cut where you go from inside Messer's cockpit watching Keith do a cobra maneuver to get behind Messer and shoot at him to suddenly they do their slo-mo face to face fly-by from the first episode. It's astoundingly bad. I'll try to gif it if I can (though let me know if that's an issue at all, mods).

3) They change up the song for one concert/battle and the lip-syncing is way off. It's a minor thing, but you'd think they could have easily corrected this.

It's small things like that that add up to really affect the movie negatively. It's very... well, not amateurish, there's far too much money being thrown at this thing for that. But it was certainly a sloppier job than I saw on, say, the first Frontier movie.The final fight between Messer and Keith is extended significantly but footage sped up so much as to be indecipherable, as others have said. I dunno, maybe my eyes just aren't what they used to be. I hope this trend doesn't continue but know it will. There's also not nearly as much new footage as I would have liked. Some shots of them in Battroid mode are taken from the first (and only?) opening credits of the show.

Edited September 13, 2018 by kajnrig
forgive me while i work out the spoiler kinks

[kajnrig]

Forgive the double post. Spoiler tags were not very cooperative.

Phew. And now, responses!

22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

All the same, every main character in the OVA was well-developed, believably flawed, and interesting enough to hold the audience's attention.

Macross Plus doesn't shy away from messy endings. No one in the cast gets a happily ever after or the meting out of just punishment. Lucy ends the story hurting over isamu yet still pining for him; Millard faces the near certainty of a court martial that has yet to come (and never will, as far as the story is concerned); Margue gets the creation he dreamed of, and he might not mind at all that it hoists him by his own petard; and so on.

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The only real weak point the OVA had was the weird, experimental music that didn't bring enough memorable tunes.

22 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

..I actually liked the music from Plus more than Delta...

Then again, I like techno, and I like Yoko Kanno. A lot of the best stuff got seriously cut short in the OVA/Movie as well, and the full versions on the albums are better.

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The music is an odd thing though.. it's absolutely fitting to the visuals, and it's really effective at setting the mood, but it's also strange and unconventional in ways that make you wonder what you're listening to, and even question why you're listening to it... but that's kind of Yoko Kanno in a nutshell, I think.

The music of Plus is phenomenal, but it isn't something I'd like to listen to casually. It's not easily digestible like DYRL/Frontier/7. I have to actively listen to it, and that means preparing myself for it beforehand.

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Funny random side-thought, that only now occurred to me:  Who wants to bet the illegal neural network chip that ran Sharon's AI involved components made of fold quartz?  I don't know if that has been mentioned officially, or discussed elsewhere, but it would probably fit the situation.

I remember this came up as a theory in either the short questions or one of the episode threads. I like to think that's not the case, and that Sharon is entirely synthetic and/or otherwise divorced from the Protoculture and Fold Space shenanigans that inform the rest of the franchise. I can't quite articulate why I prefer this, but it has something to do with wanting to maintain an air of fascination but also danger around her. She's like other idols, but she's also not. Like... a mirror set just slightly askew to reality.

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all but three or four cast members barely get the same development Fire Bomber's missing member cardboard standees got in 7.  It's "fun", but completely forgettable and utterly devoid of substance outside of its music.

That reminds me: I don't know if the previous members of Walkure showed up for very long in the show, but in the movie they make up a good portion of the flashback runtime, and to its credit, Gekijou no Walkure makes me want to get to know THOSE characters as well. That's the perennial issue plaguing Delta, I suppose. It sparks interest in every single one of its characters, but can never stoke those flames.

14 hours ago, charles88 said:

Its like rating Gundam ZZ higher than Gundam 00 because Nostalgia, despite ZZ actually has poorer story.

I don't know if using Gundam 00 as a favorable comparison is the best tactic, but you do you, I suppose...

2 hours ago, davidwhangchoi said:

is this a good movie?

No.

But yes.

 

 

but no tho

57 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

One of its biggest problems is that the word Macross is in the title... so it's marked to MUCH higher standards than it would otherwise have been.  If it didn't have to live up to that name, folks would be a lot kinder to it.

Oh, I dunno about that... I think it's pretty dull even just on its own merits...

Edited September 13, 2018 by kajnrig