Macross Δ (Delta) Movie Gekijō no Walkūre (Passionate Walkure)

[SMS007]

Maybe Windermere's strategy this time around is to soften up the NUN by waging a propaganda war against Walküre. 

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Maybe Windermere's strategy this time around is to soften up the NUN by waging a propaganda war against Walküre. 

That'd be awful roundabout... softening up the New UN Government by waging a propaganda war against a corporation the New UN Forces think is an interfering pack of useless gits.

[SMS007]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That'd be awful roundabout... softening up the New UN Government by waging a propaganda war against a corporation the New UN Forces think is an interfering pack of useless gits.

Well it's not as though the NUNG has any other countermeasures against Vár syndrome. 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Well it's not as though the NUNG has any other countermeasures against Vár syndrome. 

Nah, they had a really good one near the end of the series and a pretty good one about 2/3 of the way thru.  They had a way to jam the Song of the Wind that was triggering Var syndrome outbreaks, and they got stopped partway into their permanent solution of blasting Windermere IV clean off the face of the galaxy.  No wind singer, no song of the wind.  No song of the wind, no Var syndrome. ;-) 

[Mommar]

I hope these animation changes are a sign they're attemtping to make other story changes too.  But I get the feeling all we'll get are a bunch if new toys instead.

[Germán]

I don't know why but  the poster of the film reminds me of Ideon, Galient, old's anime.

[kajnrig]

The newest trailer has impressively made me LESS hype for the movie. I think it has to do with a certain Messer getting a dumb upgrade, AND it's just rehashing the dumbest upgrade from the series, too. I never liked those Lil' Drakens docking onto the wing roots.

And just to keep it alive:

On 12/27/2017 at 10:16 AM, Sildani said:

Less idols, more Itanos!

Less Itanos, more Circuses!

[SMS007]

Probably still a long shot for a compilation movie, but if this movie is adding more Two-Thirds type Macrosses and an Armored Pack for the VF-31S, then perhaps the Windermerean military will have some more diversity with the Sv-154 in action.

[Mommar]

47 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Probably still a long shot for a compilation movie, but if this movie is adding more Two-Thirds type Macrosses and an Armored Pack for the VF-31S, then perhaps the Windermerean military will have some more diversity with the Sv-154 in action.

Please!  They could be the fodder craft if they want to maintain not blowing up any of the 262's.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Mommar

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Less Itanos, more Circuses!

Less circuses, more bread!

 

49 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Probably still a long shot for a compilation movie, but if this movie is adding more Two-Thirds type Macrosses and an Armored Pack for the VF-31S, then perhaps the Windermerean military will have some more diversity with the Sv-154 in action.

It's a remote possibility, but I doubt it... even the Macross Delta series showed that, in the seven years between Windermere IV's war of secession from the New UN Government and their second campaign's first offensive on Al Shahal in 2067, the Kingdom of the Wind's Aerial Knights had transitioned to the 5th Generation Sv-262 Draken III.

(Arguably justified, since Windermere IV is a planet rich in the one material for which the scarcity is a limiting factor in adopting 5th Generation VFs: fold quartz.)

[kajnrig]

Ah, that reminds me why I came back to this thread in the first place: was the Elysion a Quarter or full-size Macross?

19 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Less circuses, more bread!

Less bread, more pineapples!

wait...

[SMS007]

12 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Ah, that reminds me why I came back to this thread in the first place: was the Elysion a Quarter or full-size Macross?

The Elysion is two-thirds the size of the SDF-1 and SDFN series. I'm not sure if the past week's trailer is the first confirmation or not that there is an entire two-thirds Macross series just as there is an entire quarter Macross series.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Ah, that reminds me why I came back to this thread in the first place: was the Elysion a Quarter or full-size Macross?

3 hours ago, SMS007 said:

The Elysion is two-thirds the size of the SDF-1 and SDFN series. I'm not sure if the past week's trailer is the first confirmation or not that there is an entire two-thirds Macross series just as there is an entire quarter Macross series.

The only size metric that's been given for the SDF/C-108 Macross Elysion is that in Storming Attack mode it's approximately the same height as the Burj Khalifa in Dubai (~828m).

As such, it's approximately 2/3 the height of the standard Macross-class or Battle-class.

It was a given that there would be multiple ships of the Macross Elysion-type... the military never builds just one of anything, barring some incredible administrative cockup like what happened with cost overruns on the real world¹ Enterprise-class aircraft carriers that resulted in five of the planned six being canceled, leaving just CVN-65 USS Enterprise.  Thus far, we've only seen a few cases where ships were one-of-a-kind at the time they appeared³:

• SDF-1 Macross, the first ship of a planned Macross-class.  A second ship, SDF-2 Megalord, was under construction during the First Space War and was not completed in time to join the fight and was later converted into the first Megaroad-class ship.  Twelve further Macross-class ships were built, starting with SDFN-1 General Takashi Hayase after the war ended.
• CVS-101 Prometheus, the first of her planned class of five Prometheus-class ships.
• SLV-111 Daedalus, the first of her planned class of five Daedalus-class ships.
• SMS Macross Quarter (series ver.) was a test article for the Macross Quarter-class to follow.²

 

 

4 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Less bread, more pineapples!

Double helpings for Messer, Keith, and Roid!

 

1. An important distinction in this one very specific case, as the unofficial writeup for the Aether and Hemera's class in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried identifies them as Enterprise-class ships.

2. In the movie version, this was changed to it being a production level ship design already... having been developed at a shipyard on Eden and the specs shared over the Galaxy Network.

3. CVN-99 Asuka II from Macross Zero is often mistakenly put in this category, but she was actually one of two Asuka II-class ships built at Newport News... her sister ship, CVN-100 Graf Zeppelin II, has a cameo in Macross the First.

[Marzan]

On 12/30/2017 at 8:21 PM, Mommar said:

I hope these animation changes are a sign they're attemtping to make other story changes too.  But I get the feeling all we'll get are a bunch if new toys instead.

And a bunch of new Walkure albums too.

[SMS007]

22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It was a given that there would be multiple ships of the Macross Elysion-type... the military never builds just one of anything, barring some incredible administrative cockup like what happened with cost overruns on the real world¹ Enterprise-class aircraft carriers that resulted in five of the planned six being canceled, leaving just CVN-65 USS Enterprise.  Thus far, we've only seen a few cases where ships were one-of-a-kind at the time they appeared³:

• SDF-1 Macross, the first ship of a planned Macross-class.  A second ship, SDF-2 Megalord, was under construction during the First Space War and was not completed in time to join the fight and was later converted into the first Megaroad-class ship.  Twelve further Macross-class ships were built, starting with SDFN-1 General Takashi Hayase after the war ended.

Isn't it relevant to mention that the SDF-1 Macross was built by someone else before being salvaged, refurbished, and relaunched by the U.N. Spacy? Presumably at some point before 1999 other Macross-type gun destroyers owned by the Supervision Army/Meltrandi (depending on the story) must have existed. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by SMS007

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Isn't it relevant to mention that the SDF-1 Macross was built by someone else before being salvaged, refurbished, and relaunched by the U.N. Spacy? Presumably at some point before 1999 other Macross-type gun destroyers owned by the Supervision Army/Meltrandi (depending on the story) must have existed. 

Given the sheer extent of the rebuild/redesign which the wrecked [Supervision Army/Meltrandi Army] gun destroyer was subjected to after it crashed on South Ataria island, it usually isn't considered to be the same class of ship as its original configuration.  OTEC modified it so extensively that its manufacturer probably wouldn't recognize it anymore... heck knows the guys who made a job out of blowing up ships just like it barely did.

It'd become the basis for a new class of human warship, so it's generally counted as belonging to that class: the Macross-class Super Dimension Fortress.

[Mommar]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Given the sheer extent of the rebuild/redesign which the wrecked [Supervision Army/Meltrandi Army] gun destroyer was subjected to after it crashed on South Ataria island, it usually isn't considered to be the same class of ship as its original configuration.  OTEC modified it so extensively that its manufacturer probably wouldn't recognize it anymore... heck knows the guys who made a job out of blowing up ships just like it barely did.

It'd become the basis for a new class of human warship, so it's generally counted as belonging to that class: the Macross-class Super Dimension Fortress.

Was the DYRL version considered rebuilt/redesigned as extensively as the SDFM version?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, Mommar said:

Was the DYRL version considered rebuilt/redesigned as extensively as the SDFM version?

Arguably more so, given that the ARMD-class ships that were docked to it were redesigned/modified versions of a UN Government space station design that was intended to serve as an airstrip in geosynchronous orbit.

[Gerli]

Less apples, more PINEapples

[Mommar]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Arguably more so, given that the ARMD-class ships that were docked to it were redesigned/modified versions of a UN Government space station design that was intended to serve as an airstrip in geosynchronous orbit.

I don't consider the ARMD's or the carriers from the original to be a part of the actual ship.

[SMS007]

I wonder where these other two-thirds Macrosses will come from: χάος garrisons from other Brisingr planets or from outside the Brisingr Globular Cluster. As has been pointed out before, the Cluster has many NUN colonies scattered throughout, and yet the TV anime only showed one Macross vessel during the war for the galaxy. 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

I wonder where these other two-thirds Macrosses will come from: χάος garrisons from other Brisingr planets or from outside the Brisingr Globular Cluster. As has been pointed out before, the Cluster has many NUN colonies scattered throughout, and yet the TV anime only showed one Macross vessel during the war for the galaxy. 

Given that the Macross Elysion was the flagship and sector headquarters of Xaos for the Brisingr Alliance, my money's on those other Elysion-types being from other branches outside the Brisingr cluster... reinforcements called in to support the retaking of Ragna.

[SMS007]

Given the plot precedent of Sayonara no Tsubasa, that will probably be the case.

Though, a disturbing possibility arises: what poor returning character will gets to be a member of the incompetent χάος?

[Seto Kaiba]

21 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Though, a disturbing possibility arises: what poor returning character will gets to be a member of the incompetent χάος?

The Macross Delta series novelization already tarred poor Maj. Aisha Blanchett from Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy with that particular brush... she's supposedly working for the company's Var syndrome research operation.  Macross Delta Gaiden: Macross E also put Elma Hoyly from Macross Dynamite 7 in that unexalted company as a researcher attached to a early experiment with Var syndrome suppression using fold singers who contributed to the development of early Tactical Sound Unit hardware.

[Mommar]

Hey guys, if they're bringing Aisha back then maybe there's a chance of seeing a YF-30 in animation.

[Master Dex]

Just now, Mommar said:

Hey guys, if they're bringing Aisha back then maybe there's a chance of seeing a YF-30 in animation.

Though she flew a pink VF-19 though. I suspect she wouldn't even be in the movie anyway.

[Seto Kaiba]

Delta's already overrun with characters, they probably don't have room for a cameo... the movie won't even have room to develop 90% of the existing cast.

[Mommar]

We got two VF-19's from a three second Isamu Fly-By.  We could get a pink 19 or 30 from another three second one.

[SMS007]

1 hour ago, Mommar said:

Hey guys, if they're bringing Aisha back then maybe there's a chance of seeing a YF-30 in animation.

That might be a bit awkward since one of the main plot reasons for the YF-30 was its ability to break through fold faults.....which the production-model VF-31 can't do. That sure would have been useful against Windermere, wouldn't it?

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

That might be a bit awkward since one of the main plot reasons for the YF-30 was its ability to break through fold faults.....which the production-model VF-31 can't do. That sure would have been useful against Windermere, wouldn't it?

There's that, yeah... though, in all honesty, there are three other issues with a YF-30 cameo that I'd say are probably more immediate:

• The completed YF-30 Chronos spec far exceeds the performance of any 5th Generation variable fighter appearing in Macross Delta.  Even without enhancement from its Fold Dimensional Resonance system, it's already got a 25-30% performance advantage over the VF-31 and Sv-262.  The Fold Dimensional Resonance system offers a more potent boost than the Fold Wave system, so its gains are probably even greater than what the VF-31 Custom Siegfried gets or what the Sv-262 gets from its fold reheat.
• The YF-30 Chronos final spec was outfitted with MDE weaponry for the offensive against Havamal and the Fold Evil.  That's probably illegal at this point, and would certainly be controversial even if it were legal thanks to the NUNS having employed MDE weapons against Windermere IV in 2060.
• The YF-30 Chronos prototype was SMS property, Xaos's rival, it's unlikely SMS would come to reinforce Xaos since the two don't seem to operate in the same systems.

[SMS007]

On 1/2/2018 at 9:39 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

There's that, yeah... though, in all honesty, there are three other issues with a YF-30 cameo that I'd say are probably more immediate:

• The completed YF-30 Chronos spec far exceeds the performance of any 5th Generation variable fighter appearing in Macross Delta.  Even without enhancement from its Fold Dimensional Resonance system, it's already got a 25-30% performance advantage over the VF-31 and Sv-262.  The Fold Dimensional Resonance system offers a more potent boost than the Fold Wave system, so its gains are probably even greater than what the VF-31 Custom Siegfried gets or what the Sv-262 gets from its fold reheat.
• The YF-30 Chronos final spec was outfitted with MDE weaponry for the offensive against Havamal and the Fold Evil.  That's probably illegal at this point, and would certainly be controversial even if it were legal thanks to the NUNS having employed MDE weapons against Windermere IV in 2060.
• The YF-30 Chronos prototype was SMS property, Xaos's rival, it's unlikely SMS would come to reinforce Xaos since the two don't seem to operate in the same systems.

Remind me again the exact words "MDE" stands for? And the corresponding Japanese?

[Master Dex]

1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

Remind me again the exact words "MDE" stands for? And the corresponding Japanese?

Can't be sure of the specific Japanese, but to my rememberance MDE means mini-dimension eater (as opposed to the full scale dimension eater bomb first deployed on Gallia 4 that ate up about a quarter of the planet). It stands to reason even missile based warheads like what was dropped on Carlyse are considered mini cause they only destroy an entire city instead of part of the planet, heh.

It's clear to me how these work in warheads and even in bullets (the effect dissipates faster per smaller amount of fold quartz I'd guess) but the beam version that shoots a line of micro super dimension black holes just sounds a bit... silly to me.. it's the only MDE weapon I don't quite get, heh.

[no3Ljm]

2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Remind me again the exact words "MDE" stands for? And the corresponding Japanese?

Micro Dimension Eater.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Remind me again the exact words "MDE" stands for? And the corresponding Japanese?

Micro Dimension Eater, the term is given only katakana or spelled out in English in most Macross publications that mention it.

The difference between a Dimension Eater weapon and a Micro Dimension Eater is purely a matter of scale.  You could call it the difference between a Strategic weapon and a Tactical one.  They're both essentially fold bombs that use the super heavy quanta produced by fold quartz to create a short-lived pseudo-black hole that crushes nearby matter and pulls it into fold space.  That's what the YF-30 was armed with during the final battle with Havamal and the Fold Evil... a MDE beam gunpod that fired a particle beam made up of microsingularities.

[Chronocidal]

I think the beam makes sense if you just consider it a linear rip through space time.  Kind of like a weaponized fold engine that projects a very precise field that pushes anything falling within the beam into fold space.  I just hope it works more like a lightsaber than an actual laser.  

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 4:45 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Delta's already overrun with characters, they probably don't have room for a cameo... the movie won't even have room to develop 90% of the existing cast.

This assumes they plan to develop anyone to begin with though.  I can easily see them throwing a salvo of well known characters at the audience to inject a bunch of nostalgia, and raise the average characterization of the cast as a whole without having to actually develop anyone themselves.