Valkyrie Driver Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: The square root of bugger-all. It'd just mean someone else would be suing them for their criminal enterprise besides Harmony Gold USA. They never had a legitimate license to those designs and they never will. Actually from what I've read, FASA negotiated with Big West to use the designs from Macross. I don't know about the Stuff from FOTS Dougram or Crusher Joe. Now, granted FASA is defunct, and Catalyst licenses from Wizkids but still. But this is perhaps not the place for that discussion. 2 hours ago, Podtastic said: "Re-imagined for a new generation" was used in reference to this comic. They telegraphed up front that it was going to be crap. I mean, the edgy reboot hasn't worked for original works so far, why would HGUSA think it would work for them?
Lorindor Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 5 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: Actually from what I've read, FASA negotiated with Big West to use the designs from Macross. But BW gave away the international merchandise rights to Tatsunoko, so BW was the wrong partner to negotiate with.
tekering Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 18 hours ago, Old_Nash said: Apparently, Minmei's dialogue will be corrected for the reprint:
Einherjar Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 9 hours ago, Podtastic said: "Re-imagined for a new generation" was used in reference to this comic. They telegraphed up front that it was going to be crap. Frankly, that new generation this is supposed to cater to is apparently full of pricks.
Valkyrie Driver Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Lorindor said: But BW gave away the international merchandise rights to Tatsunoko, so BW was the wrong partner to negotiate with. Actually, considering that FASA's intent was to only use the images, and that any merchandising would be for the property that FASA created. BW, as the owner of the images and property, would have been the correct partner. Also, Considering that FASA didn't just use art from Macross in official publications, instead using their own illustrators. Anyway, I'll not derail the thread further. 1 hour ago, tekering said: Apparently, Minmei's dialogue will be corrected for the reprint: Yep. That face does not correlate to the situation.
505thAirborne Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 10 hours ago, Podtastic said: "Re-imagined for a new generation" was used in reference to this comic. They telegraphed up front that it was going to be crap. This is true, but if using the term "Re-imagined" that means that some "imagination" should be used. This is just a lazy attempt altering old scenes with slightly altered Mecha designs. Not to go off topic, but if you want to do "Re-imagined" you go the RDM Battlestar Galactica route.
Dynaman Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 If I were a judge (which I'm not) this attempt at distancing from Macross would not work, it HG loses their rights this would be shutdown in an instant.
Seto Kaiba Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Podtastic said: "Re-imagined for a new generation" was used in reference to this comic. They telegraphed up front that it was going to be crap. Hey now, a little honesty in Robotech's advertising was a refreshing change of pace for the brand. 1 hour ago, Dynaman said: If I were a judge (which I'm not) this attempt at distancing from Macross would not work, it HG loses their rights this would be shutdown in an instant. Yep... but, admittedly, this was not, by any stretch of the imagination, an attempt to distance Robotech from Macross. This was a simple, straightforward, minimum-effort cash grab so that Harmony Gold can continue to say that they're using the Macross trademarks. (Which, like all trademarks, are on a "use it or lose it" basis.) Edited November 2, 2017 by Seto Kaiba
Chronocidal Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 What if you're actually misusing it? I mean.. no, it's not the market, and it would never actually happen, but I'd love to see Big West step in directly and slap HG upside the head for making trash of this level with one of their franchises.
F-ZeroOne Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 2nd Destroid from the left... anyone else notice that one of its arms appears to be floating? (if you look, theres no connecting joint between its shoulder and the arm).
Convectuoso Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 It's kinda funny how they seem to try too hard to add detail to the characters, but the SDF-1 looks brand new. Not a single sign of weathering or battle damage on it
tekering Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 8 hours ago, Einherjar said: Frankly, that new generation this is supposed to cater to is apparently full of pricks. If this thread's any indication, it's our generation that's full of pricks. 6 hours ago, 505thAirborne said: if you want to do "Re-imagined" you go the RDM Battlestar Galactica route. Or the Star Trek: Discovery route, yeah. 3 hours ago, F-ZeroOne said: 2nd Destroid from the left... anyone else notice that one of its arms appears to be floating? (if you look, theres no connecting joint between its shoulder and the arm). You may also have noticed that all the Destroid pilots are completely bald (save the one on the right)... The artwork clearly wasn't ready for publishing.
Valkyrie Driver Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 4 hours ago, F-ZeroOne said: 2nd Destroid from the left... anyone else notice that one of its arms appears to be floating? (if you look, theres no connecting joint between its shoulder and the arm). Snap, you're right. It's official, the whole thing must be crap. Animation errors I can understand, but illustration errors? C'mon...
Seto Kaiba Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 17 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: Actually from what I've read, FASA negotiated with Big West to use the designs from Macross. I don't know about the Stuff from FOTS Dougram or Crusher Joe. Now, granted FASA is defunct, and Catalyst licenses from Wizkids but still. But this is perhaps not the place for that discussion. ... No. I have no idea where you could have read that, but there's absolutely no truth to it. Spoiler FASA claimed, in court, to have obtained a license to use the designs of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Century Orguss, Crusher Joe, et. al. from this little company by the name of Twentieth Century Imports. The now-defunct Twentieth Century Imports was a niche company that specialized in importing Japanese hobby goods like model kits, toys, and the like for sale in the US. Kind of a forerunner of modern Japan-based direct sellers like HobbyLink Japan or CDJapan. Like those modern retailers, TCI never had any rights to the actual designs, the box art, or anything else... it was a plain, simple retailer. The reason I emphasized the word "claimed" is that, while FASA claimed they had obtained a license to use the box art from a variety of model kits TCI carried at the time, they were never able to actually produce the alleged license in court. Harmony Gold USA's lawyers, on the other hand, were able to prove quite handily using HG's own license that, even if TCI had granted FASA a license like they claimed, it would not have been valid because Harmony Gold's license to the SDF Macross merchandising rights is an exclusive one. TCI never had any legal standing that would have permitted them to authorize FASA to use the designs. FASA had either misled TCI about their intentions in using the art, or they made the whole thing up because they didn't think Harmony Gold would actually force them to prove it when it ended up in court. Once it became clear to FASA that they were in the dock for selling what amounted to counterfeit goods with no plausible defense, FASA opted to settle the matter out of court. As part of that settlement, they gave up all claims on the Japanese artwork in perpetuity. So, every time FASA's successors, who are still bound by that settlement, attempt to bring the Unseen back they get sued for violating Harmony Gold's exclusive license to those designs and for breaching the terms of that binding settlement. Some BattleTech fans mistakenly conflate FASA's later hiring of Studio Nue to design replacement designs for the Unseen for the game's exportation to Japan in the 90's with the alleged license that resulted in the Unseen. 17 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: I mean, the edgy reboot hasn't worked for original works so far, why would HGUSA think it would work for them? What makes you think HG had anything to do with the "edgy reboot" aspect of it? Titan Comics is leading this one, AFAIK. All Harmony Gold is doing is rubber stamping issues as they go to publication. 15 minutes ago, Valkyrie Driver said: Snap, you're right. It's official, the whole thing must be crap. Animation errors I can understand, but illustration errors? C'mon... Isn't the title warning enough about the quality?
TehPW Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 On 11/1/2017 at 6:55 AM, Old_Nash said: Robotech #4 WTF???? The SDF-1 found 10 years ago is really the actual what back in time!!! And afte the most ugly Bretai, and yhe most ugly Minmei... Ugly Pin Point barrier operatior Rick's first Phalanx... The Most Ugly Bretai II: The Mission Really... why this crap have a 2nd and 3rd reimpression??? OK... I would be OK with the Tomahawk's [] SRM Rack looking it does... but WTF is with the Missile Racks on the Left Shoulder? That was supposed to be a Field Light mounted on the shoulder, not a Arrow IV Artillery Mount and a MRM-30 Rack? Are these clowns intentionally trolling Battletech?
Podtastic Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 11 hours ago, 505thAirborne said: This is true, but if using the term "Re-imagined" that means that some "imagination" should be used. This is just a lazy attempt altering old scenes with slightly altered Mecha designs. Not to go off topic, but if you want to do "Re-imagined" you go the RDM Battlestar Galactica route. The only "re-imagined" series that worked for me was the 2002 MOTU series. And that's because it was actually closer to the spirit of the original mini-comics than the Filmation version.
Valkyrie Driver Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said: ... No. I have no idea where you could have read that, but there's absolutely no truth to it. Hide contents FASA claimed, in court, to have obtained a license to use the designs of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Century Orguss, Crusher Joe, et. al. from this little company by the name of Twentieth Century Imports. The now-defunct Twentieth Century Imports was a niche company that specialized in importing Japanese hobby goods like model kits, toys, and the like for sale in the US. Kind of a forerunner of modern Japan-based direct sellers like HobbyLink Japan or CDJapan. Like those modern retailers, TCI never had any rights to the actual designs, the box art, or anything else... it was a plain, simple retailer. The reason I emphasized the word "claimed" is that, while FASA claimed they had obtained a license to use the box art from a variety of model kits TCI carried at the time, they were never able to actually produce the alleged license in court. Harmony Gold USA's lawyers, on the other hand, were able to prove quite handily using HG's own license that, even if TCI had granted FASA a license like they claimed, it would not have been valid because Harmony Gold's license to the SDF Macross merchandising rights is an exclusive one. TCI never had any legal standing that would have permitted them to authorize FASA to use the designs. FASA had either misled TCI about their intentions in using the art, or they made the whole thing up because they didn't think Harmony Gold would actually force them to prove it when it ended up in court. Once it became clear to FASA that they were in the dock for selling what amounted to counterfeit goods with no plausible defense, FASA opted to settle the matter out of court. As part of that settlement, they gave up all claims on the Japanese artwork in perpetuity. So, every time FASA's successors, who are still bound by that settlement, attempt to bring the Unseen back they get sued for violating Harmony Gold's exclusive license to those designs and for breaching the terms of that binding settlement. Some BattleTech fans mistakenly conflate FASA's later hiring of Studio Nue to design replacement designs for the Unseen for the game's exportation to Japan in the 90's with the alleged license that resulted in the Unseen. If I may, what is/are your source(s)? Not that I don't believe you, your response sounds too well researched to be malarkey, but I'd like to read for myself. Still though, if it hadn't been for BattleTech, and the unseen, I probably wouldn't be here right now. 2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: What makes you think HG had anything to do with the "edgy reboot" aspect of it? Titan Comics is leading this one, AFAIK. All Harmony Gold is doing is rubber stamping issues as they go to publication. Not saying that HG had anything to do with the creative process, but it is their product, so I'd think that they'd want some say in how it treats their IP. But then this is HG we're talking about so I guess that's not surprising. 2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Isn't the title warning enough about the quality? I mean, that's fair enough.
dizman Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 So what's happening now, did the SDF-1 get shot back in time and kill everybody in the process making some hellish time loop? I gotta admit that's actually kinda fun if it's the case.
renegadeleader1 Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: If I may, what is/are your source(s)? Not that I don't believe you, your response sounds too well researched to be malarkey, but I'd like to read for myself. Still though, if it hadn't been for BattleTech, and the unseen, I probably wouldn't be here right now. Here's the transcript from the HG v FASA lawsuit that spun off from the lawsuit FASA brought against Playmates toys and their Exosquad line, that they also lost. http://www.kaempen.org/alex/harmony_gold_v._fasa.html If you want I can provide context and background if you have any questions about the various lawsuits.
JB0 Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, dizman said: So what's happening now, did the SDF-1 get shot back in time and kill everybody in the process making some hellish time loop? I gotta admit that's actually kinda fun if it's the case. No, it isn't fun. I read End of the Circle. 10 hours ago, tekering said: If this thread's any indication, it's our generation that's full of pricks. EVERY generation is full of pricks. It is a miracle we've survived as long as we have, as a species. Edited November 3, 2017 by JB0
Seto Kaiba Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 9 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: If I may, what is/are your source(s)? Not that I don't believe you, your response sounds too well researched to be malarkey, but I'd like to read for myself. Still though, if it hadn't been for BattleTech, and the unseen, I probably wouldn't be here right now. The court records, mainly. Particularly the various attempts FASA made to get the case dismissed, all of which failed miserably. renegadeleader1 already posted a link to some of them. What the original settlement from that 1996 lawsuit in the Illinois Northern District Court contained came out thanks to Catalyst getting slapped down by HG in the early 2000s, they revealed in a news post on their official site that the original binding settlement from that case prohibited the game from using any secondhand mechanical designs... even ones to which Harmony Gold did not have the rights, like Orguss and Crusher Joe. That settlement has formed the basis for every slapdown since. This is particularly well-trodden legal ground... so much so that it's frankly amazing Catalyst and its partners keep trying to illegally base designs on The Unseen when they ALWAYS get slapped down for it. 9 hours ago, dizman said: So what's happening now, did the SDF-1 get shot back in time and kill everybody in the process making some hellish time loop? I gotta admit that's actually kinda fun if it's the case. Well, it certainly answers one nagging question... how Titan Comics was going to wrap the story up at the end of the "Macross Saga" without continuing into the Masters Saga or New Generation. It's not bad, as cop-outs go. Can't very well have the Masters Saga or New Generation if the SDF-1's a origin-less object resulting from an ontological paradox in which the same ship is locked in a loop of crashing with its crew dead, being rebuilt, and relaunched in the same repeating 15 year timespan. Rick Hunter and all the other characters on whom the background events hinge would be dead, so those events would never happen, the protoculture matrix disappears instead of being breached by the ship's destruction, so the Robotech Masters never detect it and neither do the Invid. It's not an original concept for Robotech... a very similar idea was used in the Robotech novels, but in that version it was the SDF-3 that was launched back in time by a fold accident, ending up in the distant past and becoming the origin of the Robotech Masters.
Einherjar Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 20 hours ago, tekering said: If this thread's any indication, it's our generation that's full of pricks. If anyone has a better explanation why all these characters “in name only” are like this, especially with their questionable oral hygiene, I’d like to know.
F-ZeroOne Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 19 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: Snap, you're right. It's official, the whole thing must be crap. Animation errors I can understand, but illustration errors? C'mon... Being very generous, it could be possible that its been removed "for maintenance" and theres a supporting crane or something thats blocked from view (there is an overhead gantry) but...
Podtastic Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 On 2017/11/03 at 10:25 PM, Einherjar said: If anyone has a better explanation why all these characters “in name only” are like this, especially with their questionable oral hygiene, I’d like to know. I don't know. What I want to know is why that Zentraedi warrior's armour looks like he stole if from the Skrulls.
Valkyrie Driver Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) On 11/3/2017 at 5:02 AM, renegadeleader1 said: Here's the transcript from the HG v FASA lawsuit that spun off from the lawsuit FASA brought against Playmates toys and their Exosquad line, that they also lost. http://www.kaempen.org/alex/harmony_gold_v._fasa.html If you want I can provide context and background if you have any questions about the various lawsuits. I completely missed your response, but better late than never, right? Thanks for posting that info, I'm having a look right now. Edit: That pretty clearly sums it up. FASA was in the wrong. Oh well. BattleTech was as much a part of my childhood as Robotech was or many of our fellow fans here, so... Besides, post '96 Battletech seems pretty calm and abides by the decision of that case. Though I do have to say that the current suit by Harmony Gold against Hairbrained Schemes is a bit sketchy, considering that harmony gold is claiming ownership over designs that are not in fact based on Macross, that they actually have no claim to. But I digress, and that's a conversation for another thread. Edited November 6, 2017 by Valkyrie Driver Addendum
Seto Kaiba Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 4 hours ago, Podtastic said: I don't know. What I want to know is why that Zentraedi warrior's armour looks like he stole if from the Skrulls. Everything else in the comic is borrowed from somewhere else, why not that too?
Valkyrie Driver Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: Everything else in the comic is borrowed from somewhere else, why not that too? It is a baffling confluence of bad. It loops past so bad it's good, to bad again, and then goes another full loop. It over shoots not once but twice, and that's actually impressive, in a morbid sort of way. The images are really lifeless, and every character just hits the bottom of the uncanny valley for me.
Seto Kaiba Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: It is a baffling confluence of bad. It loops past so bad it's good, to bad again, and then goes another full loop. It over shoots not once but twice, and that's actually impressive, in a morbid sort of way. The images are really lifeless, and every character just hits the bottom of the uncanny valley for me. What little of it I've read sails right off the end of the critical spectrum... past "good" and "bad", through the thickets of "so bad it's good" to "so bad it's awful", and vaulting into the vast abyss of dispassionate loathing where Battlefield Earth and the Star Wars Holiday Special live. It's operating on a level where I can't help but wonder if the captive Robotech audience inexplicably praising it is experiencing some sort of literary version of Stockholm Syndrome.
Valkyrie Driver Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 16 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: What little of it I've read sails right off the end of the critical spectrum... past "good" and "bad", through the thickets of "so bad it's good" to "so bad it's awful", and vaulting into the vast abyss of dispassionate loathing where Battlefield Earth and the Star Wars Holiday Special live. It's operating on a level where I can't help but wonder if the captive Robotech audience inexplicably praising it is experiencing some sort of literary version of Stockholm Syndrome. I keep trying to watch the Macross Saga, just to try and compare and contrast with SDFM, and I just can't seem to do it. It's almost like it causes me physical discomfort. I haven't felt as bad as that since the end of my rotation at JRTC after eating MRE's for 3 weeks. The feeling of being gassy, constipated, nauseous, all at once, with the feeling of fever, and cold sweats, the literal worst I've ever felt.
tekering Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 5 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: I keep trying to watch the Macross Saga, just to try and compare and contrast with SDFM, and I just can't seem to do it. It's almost like it causes me physical discomfort. Your experience has been universal among Robotech fans for over 30 years. "Once you go Mac, you can't go back!"
Seto Kaiba Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 6 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: I keep trying to watch the Macross Saga, just to try and compare and contrast with SDFM, and I just can't seem to do it. It's almost like it causes me physical discomfort. The funny part is that not only is that a near-universal reaction Macross fans - and especially Robotech fans who made the move to Macross - have to watching Robotech, it's also a reaction many Robotech fans have to the various reboots and alternate versions in that franchise. Most Robotech fans find this comic just as subtly unsettlingly wrong as Macross fans find Robotech. 6 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said: I haven't felt as bad as that since the end of my rotation at JRTC after eating MRE's for 3 weeks. The feeling of being gassy, constipated, nauseous, all at once, with the feeling of fever, and cold sweats, the literal worst I've ever felt. ... having been there myself courtesy of a friend in the USMC, that's maybe harsher than even I would've put it. There's a reason those are called "Meals Ready to Expel".
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