Robotech and REMIX by Titan Comics

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Knight26 said:

@Seto Kaiba is right.  IIRC the biggest thing that prevents Mac7 coming over wasn't so much HG, but the music licensing costs.  None of the US distributors wanted to shell out for that.

What I've heard on that score (no pun intended) was that Victor Entertainment wanted prospective Macross 7 licensees to license Fire Bomber's entire catalog and not just the double handful of songs actually used in the show.  That put the price tag on the rights to the all-important music beyond what any western distributor could cost-justify based on expected return-on-investment for the series.

It'd probably be less of an issue nowadays... both because anime is gaining acceptance in western markets and because the albums are mostly pushing twenty-five years old.

[peter]

On 10/1/2019 at 7:50 AM, Knight26 said:

OOhh look how edgy I am, I make fun of Mac7 without any good basis to work from, and think something from RT-Sentinels is from it.  Have you even watched Mac7 dude?

I did, I tried I got through the whole thing, but the singing anti-war hippie just pissed me off.  Then I decided to watch some of it after a few beers, but it just made me angry.  A few years later (not my proudest years), I tried to watch it after smoking weed and yeah I laughed a bit, but I guess I wasn't high enough because I knew I still didn't like it.  

I could have sworn pedo-bear was in M7, but I guess that was the weed.

I'd rank Robotech/HG below M7, but I can't recall a single thing I liked about M7, so my dislike for them is about equal.  

I liked M2 better than M7.  Even though the main character in M2 was a journalist, I dislike anti-war singing space hippies more than journalists.  I liked M+ if that means anything.

Edited October 3, 2019 by peter

[Knight26]

@peter  No offense, but the opinions of a stoner are not something I generally take seriously.  That being said, I can understand that M7 is not for everyone.  But, it probably filled in more of the holes in pre-Earth history of Macross then any other story.  And think of it this way.  SK has said several times that we have never seen the real story of Macross, but basically Docu-Dramas of the events in each series.  That is why there are serious story and design differences between TV/OVA and movies versions of each story.  Both are the same story but told through a different lens with different focus behind the "camera." 
When you look at/watch Macross-7 think of it as the Joel Schumacher retelling of the events.  He focusses on the character of Basara, the anti-war rock star, because he was a major figure in the events.  But he leaves out his backstory.  Where did he learn to fly so well?  Why did he become the man he is?  (personal head-canon he is the son of Shin Kudo and Sara Nome).  Then apply your own mental filter over the story.  Really read into the story, at it's core it is a horror story with space vampires and monsters that brought down the Supervision Army and Protoculture.  And realize the time at which was made.  Anime was largely moving away from the dark, monster stories, into more upbeat offerings.  Had M7 been made a few years earlier it would have visually been more like Demon City, or Vampire Hunter-D.  All dark shades and harsh lines, and the story would not have had as many goofy, upbeat moments.
M7 is a series where you have to look past the first layer into what lies beneath.  So for a casual viewer it may not come across as strong, but when you really pay attention and dig into the story, and ignore some of Fire Bomber's more goofy antics, it becomes pretty awesome.

[peter]

Yeah, I'm not particularly proud of those years, and I don't smoke weed anymore nor do I have any desire to, even though our idiot Prime Minister made it legal. 

I was however, of the opinion that Kawamori-san must have been high as a kite when he did M7.

M+ came out 25Aug94 and M7 came out 16Oct94.  I was 19 at the time, so I figured he did M+ for fans like me and he did M7 for the another audience. 

Sorry for going off topic, but I guess most of us can agree that whoever's coming up with stuff for the Robotech comic must be smoking crack. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by peter

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

@peter  No offense, but the opinions of a stoner are not something I generally take seriously.  

I'll give it my non-stoner (never had any illegal substance and never got passed out drunk but have gotten tipsy).  M7 is Too Long, Too Loud, and Too shallow.

[easnoddy]

I'll agree wholeheartedly that M7 is WAY too long.  There are many aspects of the show I like, but also many I do not.  M+ is far superior IMO.

[azrael]

4 hours ago, easnoddy said:

I'll agree wholeheartedly that M7 is WAY too long. 

Oh you kids and your short series. 

[Einherjar]

Let's be honest here, all things considered the Macross and Robotech universes are full of weird, ridiculous secondary material that shatter any idea that either are gritty, super serious stuff.  The difference is that HG is so insecure about it they have a hard time moving past episode 85, or 36,  and rather not talk about their adventures with space bears, space amazons, rock people, Jean Grey imitators, Cylon rejects, not-spice, 90's 3D, space school, J-pop idols as written by Americans, and time parodox shenanigans unless the franchise was in real dire straits.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Einherjar said:

Let's be honest here, all things considered the Macross and Robotech universes are full of weird, ridiculous secondary material that shatter any idea that either are gritty, super serious stuff.

Why stop there?  Let's be honest enough to admit that the weird and ridiculous stuff did not, by any stretch of the imagination, confine itself to the secondary materials in either case.

Hell, in some cases, the weirdness in Robotech's primary materials is straight-up inherited from the originals... there are two entire episodes devoted to trippy fever dreams full of just plain insane sh*t, soldiers brawling in a coffee shop using pro-wrestling moves, giant space aliens who mistake wire-fu movies for confidential military records, alien spies dressing in drag by mistake, soldiers getting into catfights over an expensive dress, and a grown man's horror realizing he's been fapping to an extremely pretty man and not a woman.

Super serious this ain't.

 

2 hours ago, Einherjar said:

The difference is that HG is so insecure about it they have a hard time moving past episode 85, or 36,  and rather not talk about their adventures with space bears, space amazons, rock people, Jean Grey imitators, Cylon rejects, not-spice, 90's 3D, space school, J-pop idols as written by Americans, and time parodox shenanigans unless the franchise was in real dire straits.

Well, there's another difference in terms of overall quality.

Macross might do weird sh*t, but it's pretty uniformly high quality weird sh*t.  Robotech is done as cheaply as possible with no regard for quality whatsoever, with that last part being the reason Harmony Gold is so ashamed of what was produced on its watch during the late 80's and the 90's (by their own admission).

[Brofessor]

Spoiler Alert for Event Horizon Chapter 2 or Issue 22 August 2019

Spoiler

1. Dana confirms the SDF-3 was sent back in time which means Lisa is currently the captain of the SDF-3, not the SDF-1.

2. The Regess is ransacking all realities. She seems to ransack Robotech 3000, Robotech Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles Comics, and Robotech: The Movie.

3. Max meets his daughter Dana and discovers Miriya is her mother. Dana meets her parents prior to her conception in this timeline.

4. All the characters are on the SDF-1 in lunar space dock.

5. The Invid arrive to destroy the SDF-1 because it is an anomaly interfering with their abilities to cross time and reality.

 

[Brofessor]

Spoiler Alert for Curtain Call Part 3 of 5 appearing as a backup in Event Horizon Chapter 2 Issue 22 August 2019

Spoiler

1. I believe Dana from this comic series and Bowie from the Robotech Remix comic series are present at the ongoing concert. Dana seems to be 30 and Bowie seems about 5 years old. Classic Macross Saga takes place between 2009 and 2012 with Bowie born in 2013.

2. Dana tells Bowie Minmei died when he was born. However, Dana has technology which confirms the Minmei performance is a live performance streaming from the SDF-1.

3. Dana and Bowie watch the events involving Max and Miriya depicted in the previous issue. It is implied Dana set them up on a date to spur her conception. However, Miriya then implies Max is Dana’s father and Dana implies Max is not her father.

4. Max and Dana decide to head to the SDF-1 and Bowie follows Miriya back to Dana’s quarters.

 

[peter]

19 hours ago, Brofessor said:

Spoiler Alert for Event Horizon Chapter 2 or Issue 22 August 2019

  Hide contents

1. Dana confirms the SDF-3 was sent back in time which means Lisa is currently the captain of the SDF-3, not the SDF-1.

2. The Regess is ransacking all realities. She seems to ransack Robotech 3000, Robotech Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles Comics, and Robotech: The Movie.

3. Max meets his daughter Dana and discovers Miriya is her mother. Dana meets her parents prior to her conception in this timeline.

4. All the characters are on the SDF-1 in lunar space dock.

5. The Invid arrive to destroy the SDF-1 because it is an anomaly interfering with their abilities to cross time and reality.

 

When does Dana dye her hair blonde?

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, peter said:

When does Dana dye her hair blonde?

Shortly after her parents made her drink bleach in an attempt to be rid of her.

[peter]

6 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Shortly after her parents made her drink bleach in an attempt to be rid of her.

Lol!

[Knight26]

23 hours ago, Brofessor said:

Spoiler Alert for Curtain Call Part 3 of 5 appearing as a backup in Event Horizon Chapter 2 Issue 22 August 2019

  Reveal hidden contents

1. I believe Dana from this comic series and Bowie from the Robotech Remix comic series are present at the ongoing concert. Dana seems to be 30 and Bowie seems about 5 years old. Classic Macross Saga takes place between 2009 and 2012 with Bowie born in 2013.

2. Dana tells Bowie Minmei died when he was born. However, Dana has technology which confirms the Minmei performance is a live performance streaming from the SDF-1.

3. Dana and Bowie watch the events involving Max and Miriya depicted in the previous issue. It is implied Dana set them up on a date to spur her conception. However, Miriya then implies Max is Dana’s father and Dana implies Max is not her father.

4. Max and Dana decide to head to the SDF-1 and Bowie follows Miriya back to Dana’s quarters.

 

Dude, not only are you month late on this content, but really, so few of us care about this trainwreck.  But like a trainwreck we just watch it out of morbid curiosity.  Go back to RT.com.

[peter]

[JB0]

1 hour ago, peter said:

"You're right. But the third season of Macross was the best. The transforming motorcycles were awesome."

[Einherjar]

Man, idolcide is a legitimate strategy in this universe now.  Sorry Musica and Yellow Dancer, both of you might not survive this reboot.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Einherjar

[Brofessor]

19 hours ago, Knight26 said:

Dude, not only are you month late on this content, but really, so few of us care about this trainwreck.  But like a trainwreck we just watch it out of morbid curiosity.  Go back to RT.com.

You're right. Sorry. Any discussion of Robotech on the Macross forums does lend a small amount of credence or validation to the Robotech franchise. This cannot be avoided. There is no such thing as bad publicity. I am posting for the sake of completion and maybe... obsessive compulsive disorder.

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Einherjar said:

Man, idolcide is a legitimate strategy in this universe now.  Sorry Musica and Yellow Dancer, both of you might not survive this reboot.

Man, Titan Comics busted into the Robotech franchise like the Terminator...

"Come with me if you want to die."

... and a bunch of characters said "Yes, thank you for saving us from this hell".

 

10 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

You're right. Sorry. Any discussion of Robotech on the Macross forums does lend a small amount of credence or validation to the Robotech franchise.

To be brutally frank, there is no power on this Earth that could validate Robotech's existence at this point... it's so utterly devoid of creative or commercial merit that the only reason the series didn't cease to exist almost thirty years ago was that it wasn't relevant to the bottom line of the company that owned it.

@Knight26 isn't wrong to say that almost nobody here actually cares.  The reason this comic has a thread here isn't because anyone's interested in it, this thread is an expression of that same voyeuristic impulse that causes people to slow down to gawp at a particularly nasty crash on their morning commute.

 

10 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

This cannot be avoided.

Sure it can.

 

10 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

There is no such thing as bad publicity.

Recent events involving many different corporations (e.g. Activision Blizzard) and China would make a profound argument to the contrary.

 

10 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

I am posting for the sake of completion and maybe... obsessive compulsive disorder.

Eh, whatever gets you off... just don't expect reactions besides a bemused sort of pity, mild disgust, or incredulous disdain.

[TehPW]

I just come here to see if the Gonard's reputation drops even more or not...

[505thAirborne]

Is this still a thing? 

[DewPoint]

No joke, I read this thread for the rants.  They amuse me so. 

[Einherjar]

10 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

Is this still a thing? 

In the real world, I think it is Southern Cross’ turn to be disrespected by Titan Comics.

[jeniusornome]

I’m still waiting for Orguss to somehow factor in to all of this. I just got the complete series set after finding out a few weeks ago it had actually finally been released in the US a couple years back.
 

Going to start watching it tonight probably, and half of the fun will be trying to figure out how they’d have messed it up if it had been used instead of mospeada. 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

In the real world, I think it is Southern Cross’ turn to be disrespected by Titan Comics.

Nah, it looks like they've thrown it out almost completely (one of the first good decisions they've made) in favor of making up their own story.

 

40 minutes ago, jeniusornome said:

I’m still waiting for Orguss to somehow factor in to all of this. I just got the complete series set after finding out a few weeks ago it had actually finally been released in the US a couple years back.

Going to start watching it tonight probably, and half of the fun will be trying to figure out how they’d have messed it up if it had been used instead of mospeada. 

Harmony Gold doesn't - and never did - have the rights to Super Dimension Century Orguss, so that's unlikely to occur...

However, the plot of the Titan Comics Robotech series did have a vaguely Orguss-like plot with the SDF-1 being the instigator of a mostly-stable time loop that kept producing dystopian alternate realities (the various incarnations of Robotech), which culminated in those alternate realities invading the one the final loop iteration occurred in for various reasons.

They seem to be carrying this multiverse nonsense forward into their Remix series, though they seem to have enough sense to not want to actually adapt Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross and replaced the Zor/Masters with something that looks like DYRL Zentradi.  This kind of multiverse crossover nonsense is the last refuge of the terminally bankrupt comic book writer... which is, at least, a sensible admission they know Southern Cross's story would get them cancelled.

[Knight26]

MY Eyes!!!  THEY BURN!!!

I checked our Robotech Remix.  The Wokeness, it burns so bad.  The poorly redesigned Alpha, the Obviously Mardook Rip off "Bioroids."  The oh so obvious, beating it over your head foreshadowing.  The dialogue.  All of it, beyond terrible.

[Seto Kaiba]

26 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

I checked our Robotech Remix.

That was your first mistake.

 

26 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

The Wokeness, it burns so bad.

ノ・クオンメント。

 

26 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

The poorly redesigned Alpha, the Obviously Mardook Rip off "Bioroids."

A point of order, if I may... the "poorly redesigned Alpha" is, in actual fact, a "poorly de-designed" Alpha.

The reason they called it a Vector Fighter was because the design is a reuse of one of the early drafts of the design that eventually became MOSPEADA's AFC-01 Legioss from fairly early in the show's development when it had the tentative title of Descent Soldier Vector.  Titan Comics isn't the first one to go digging through the so-called "Imai Files" unearthed years ago by Roger Harkavy.  Palladium Books did the same in the "UEEF Marines" sourcebook for their second edition Robotech RPG because they were fresh out of actual official material to adapt after just three and a half books.  (The -and-a-half comes in with the New Generation sourcebook having been padded like a menstruating firehose because the mechanical designs had already been adapted in the core book.)

It was pretty inevitable that Titan Comics was going to use as little of Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross as they could get away with, given that the Robotech fanbase's un-favorite by a MASSIVE margin and all but the most blinkered and ignorant Robotech fans will often cheerfully admit Southern Cross's design works were hot garbage and that its characters were nothing to write home about either.  This attempt to keep the Robotech story going is leaning almost exclusively on Macross, so it's not surprising they'd give as much of what remains a Macross facelift in the hopes that the fans would perhaps actually care about it.  (Let's just say there's a reason Robotech's merchandising is pretty much exclusively Macross-based.)

 

26 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

The oh so obvious, beating it over your head foreshadowing. 

So, normal Robotech writing?  While the rewriters failed to dumb the original three shows down to the level their intended target audience of the K-5s were at, the narration certainly didn't miss that mark... it's as bad as Metroid: Other M's, where the narration is a mixture of nonsense and stating the obvious.

 

26 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

The dialogue.  All of it, beyond terrible.

So, normal Robotech writing?

[Einherjar]

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

MY Eyes!!!  THEY BURN!!!

I checked our Robotech Remix.  The Wokeness, it burns so bad.  The poorly redesigned Alpha, the Obviously Mardook Rip off "Bioroids."  The oh so obvious, beating it over your head foreshadowing.  The dialogue.  All of it, beyond terrible.

And Minmay died for this or other faith worse than death.  Never forget that.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

And Minmay died for this or other faith worse than death.  Never forget that.

For her, this is trading up... better dead than rewritten into an obsessed stalker-turned-homewrecking ho Jason and John Waltrip made her into in their Robotech II: the Sentinels comic run.

[TehPW]

OH My god. I just noticed. Professor Gonad's reputation went UP by 1 (from Negative 55 to Negative 54). How the hell did someone LIKE one of his posts?

[Seto Kaiba]

43 minutes ago, TehPW said:

OH My god. I just noticed. Professor Gonad's reputation went UP by 1 (from Negative 55 to Negative 54). How the hell did someone LIKE one of his posts?

I dunno, but it occurred on that half-sarcastic response of his from yesterday.

[jeniusornome]

@Seto Kaiba I know, I was making a joke about Orguss. I remember hearing a while back that HG was originally going to use all three super dimension shows for Robotech, then switched things up. I have a feeling if they’d kept going Orguss would have been brought into the fold eventually.

Anywqys, he time loop plot they keep going back to is either inspired by or directly ripped from Orguss. Since this is my first time actually seeing the second half of the series I’m just wondering how much of it will make me think “oh, that’s where they got it from.”

[Knight26]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I dunno, but it occurred on that half-sarcastic response of his from yesterday.

That raises a question, how do you downvote a post?

[DewPoint]

You cannot anymore.  Some individual(s) was using downvotes as a personal grudge or some kind of running joke.  See no3Ljm's avatar; it was made during that time.