Dynaman Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Einherjar said: It’s a gritty Minmei for a gritty comic book, just what the fans always wanted, supposedly(?). Both of them appear to love it so I guess it is true.
blackconvoy_D01 Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 I thought the deviance in the depictions of the valks and characters were in preparation for them to lose their claim to SDF Macross. The art is crap anyway, so it doesn't matter.
Einherjar Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 1 hour ago, blackconvoy_D01 said: I thought the deviance in the depictions of the valks and characters were in preparation for them to lose their claim to SDF Macross. It might still happen. All that garbage news from convention panels this year might be an old man’s last ditch effort to save his job.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 2 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said: I thought the deviance in the depictions of the valks and characters were in preparation for them to lose their claim to SDF Macross. Nah, when it comes to comics (which are legally merchandise not derivative works) they don't really have any obstacles to using the original Haruhiko Mikimoto designs. The reason the art looked so f'ed up in the Titan Comics was Titan was trying to do their gritty reimagining of Robotech. If they lost the rights to Super Dimension Fortress Macross then even reworking the character designs wouldn't save them as long as they were visibly based on the Mikimoto designs.
Podtastic Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 19 hours ago, pengbuzz said: I did; he pretty much ruined the G1 comic by trying to "continue" it. I simply dismiss his later "work" and don't bother with it. Has anyone noticed that Minmei looks like a dude in drag in this version? O.o Maybe the artist is a dude in drag...and doesn't believe in vive la difference.
pengbuzz Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 18 hours ago, Einherjar said: It’s a gritty Minmei for a gritty comic book, just what the fans always wanted, supposedly(?). That's not "gritty"...that's a dude in drag.
Einherjar Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, pengbuzz said: That's not "gritty"...that's a dude in drag. That's appropriate. According to her lyrics, her career in this universe might have involved a lot of R&B and rapping.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, pengbuzz said: That's not "gritty"...that's a dude in drag. So... would it be better to call it "stubbly" instead of "gritty" in recognition of Minmei's five o'clock shadow?
pengbuzz Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: So... would it be better to call it "stubbly" instead of "gritty" in recognition of Minmei's five o'clock shadow? She'd be better off calling Gillette for a razor.
Knight26 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 21 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Nah, when it comes to comics (which are legally merchandise not derivative works) they don't really have any obstacles to using the original Haruhiko Mikimoto designs. The reason the art looked so f'ed up in the Titan Comics was Titan was trying to do their gritty reimagining of Robotech. If they lost the rights to Super Dimension Fortress Macross then even reworking the character designs wouldn't save them as long as they were visibly based on the Mikimoto designs. I know the guy who created those VF-14 designs used in the comics. He used to sell them, but got screwed in this case. The common license he sold them under allowed them to be used by the comics, but IIRC (it's been a while since he and I discussed it) he's never gotten proper credit for them, but "fans" of the comic have gone after him for selling them. Hence he has pulled them down. He has also gotten some hate from Macross and, yes, Robotech Purists who don't like the new design. Personally, I think his design is fine, for a fan creation, but never should have been misused by the comic "Artists" this way.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 Just now, Knight26 said: I know the guy who created those VF-14 designs used in the comics. He used to sell them, but got screwed in this case. The common license he sold them under allowed them to be used by the comics, but IIRC (it's been a while since he and I discussed it) he's never gotten proper credit for them, [...] From what I saw him say on Facebook before the various Macross and Robotech groups I'm on kicked and/or banned him, he was claiming that Titan Comics had been using his VF-0-derivative CG model without his knowledge or permission and that Titan Comics only bought a license after he threatened to file a lawsuit for copyright infringement. Frankly, given how sh*t-awful the comic is, I'd argue he should be grateful to not have his name associated with it. TL;DR he claimed Titan Comics stole his work... completely unnecessarily since there was nothing stopping Titan Comics from using the original designs if they weren't lazy f*cks who just wanted to trace things. (They later turned to tracing photos of VF-1 toys.) Just now, Knight26 said: [...] but "fans" of the comic have gone after him for selling them. Hence he has pulled them down. Goodness... I appreciate quality irony, and it doesn't come much better than that. He commercialized a thinly disguised ripoff of someone else's work, only for someone with better PR to steal his ripoff and claim it as their own, leading to him being inundated with right-for-the-wrong-reasons accusations that he was selling thinly disguised ripoffs of someone else's work. Simply beautiful. Just now, Knight26 said: He has also gotten some hate from Macross and, yes, Robotech Purists who don't like the new design. He did a LOT to earn that hate by making a spectacular arse of himself on various Macross and Robotech Facebook groups... and, of course, reacting extremely poorly to having people point out how questionable it is to commercialize a CG model heavily based on someone else's copyrighted work without permission. Just now, Knight26 said: Personally, I think his design is fine, for a fan creation, but never should have been misused by the comic "Artists" this way. Personally, I think his design skirts the edges of copyright infringement given that he was selling it while freely admitting it's heavily derivative of the VF-0. Also, IMO, it's ugly as sin... but taste is subjective.
Knight26 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said: From what I saw him say on Facebook before the various Macross and Robotech groups I'm on kicked and/or banned him, he was claiming that Titan Comics had been using his VF-0-derivative CG model without his knowledge or permission and that Titan Comics only bought a license after he threatened to file a lawsuit for copyright infringement. Frankly, given how sh*t-awful the comic is, I'd argue he should be grateful to not have his name associated with it. TL;DR he claimed Titan Comics stole his work... completely unnecessarily since there was nothing stopping Titan Comics from using the original designs if they weren't lazy f*cks who just wanted to trace things. (They later turned to tracing photos of VF-1 toys.) Goodness... I appreciate quality irony, and it doesn't come much better than that. He commercialized a thinly disguised ripoff of someone else's work, only for someone with better PR to steal his ripoff and claim it as their own, leading to him being inundated with right-for-the-wrong-reasons accusations that he was selling thinly disguised ripoffs of someone else's work. Simply beautiful. He did a LOT to earn that hate by making a spectacular arse of himself on various Macross and Robotech Facebook groups... and, of course, reacting extremely poorly to having people point out how questionable it is to commercialize a CG model heavily based on someone else's copyrighted work without permission. Personally, I think his design skirts the edges of copyright infringement given that he was selling it while freely admitting it's heavily derivative of the VF-0. Also, IMO, it's ugly as sin... but taste is subjective. I get what you are saying. It is an ugly design, but I get the aesthetic we was going for, a sort of post VF-11 design that was hybridizing a lot Zentraedi tech. Yes, selling it was wrong, and I sort of told him that, given how closely it is based on the VF-1, but he saw it the same as a lot of other 3D Modellers do, selling his work for others to use and enjoy. When he sold it to the "Artist" for Titan comics they never revealed it would be used in a commercial work, hence his claims of theft, as it was not intended for that.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 42 minutes ago, Knight26 said: I get what you are saying. It is an ugly design, but I get the aesthetic we was going for, a sort of post VF-11 design that was hybridizing a lot Zentraedi tech. ... really, I'm not sure why "hybridized with Zentradi tech" has to mean "ugly". Practically every VF built after the VF-4 uses Zentradi overtechnology to some extent and I wouldn't call any of them "ugly". The VF-2SS and VF-22 are halfway to being a Nosjadeul-Ger and Queadluun-Rau respectively and I'd call both of them quite beautiful. What it looks like is pretty immaterial to the matter though... except for the Robotech fans who were incensed that Titan Comics dared tamper with the sacred cow that is the "Macross Saga" designs, which is to say "most of them". 42 minutes ago, Knight26 said: Yes, selling it was wrong, and I sort of told him that, given how closely it is based on the VF-1, but he saw it the same as a lot of other 3D Modellers do, selling his work for others to use and enjoy. When he sold it to the "Artist" for Titan comics they never revealed it would be used in a commercial work, hence his claims of theft, as it was not intended for that. That's substantially different from the story he was telling all over Facebook before the various Macross and Robotech groups had enough of him and banned him. He was claiming that Titan Comics somehow obtained his 3D model without his knowledge or consent AND without compensating him for it. The story he told was that Titan initially denied having appropriated his 3D model and only reluctantly admitted having stolen it and agreed to pay him for it after the threat of a legal action. If your version is factually correct, then your friend wasn't just operating in dodgy and probably-illegal territory commercializing a derivative work based on copyrighted material that he did not own or have permission to use for commercial purposes, he capped it with a days-long binge of actionable defamation all over Facebook. Titan could easily sue him over that in any court in the western world and expect to win handily, and Big West could easily sue him for commercializing a ripoff of the VF-0 design as well with every expectation of winning as he credited his "inspiration" right on his website. Your acquaintance (friend?) is not a smart man, to say the least.
Knight26 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: ... really, I'm not sure why "hybridized with Zentradi tech" has to mean "ugly". Practically every VF built after the VF-4 uses Zentradi overtechnology to some extent and I wouldn't call any of them "ugly". The VF-2SS and VF-22 are halfway to being a Nosjadeul-Ger and Queadluun-Rau respectively and I'd call both of them quite beautiful. What it looks like is pretty immaterial to the matter though... except for the Robotech fans who were incensed that Titan Comics dared tamper with the sacred cow that is the "Macross Saga" designs, which is to say "most of them". That's substantially different from the story he was telling all over Facebook before the various Macross and Robotech groups had enough of him and banned him. He was claiming that Titan Comics somehow obtained his 3D model without his knowledge or consent AND without compensating him for it. The story he told was that Titan initially denied having appropriated his 3D model and only reluctantly admitted having stolen it and agreed to pay him for it after the threat of a legal action. If your version is factually correct, then your friend wasn't just operating in dodgy and probably-illegal territory commercializing a derivative work based on copyrighted material that he did not own or have permission to use for commercial purposes, he capped it with a days-long binge of actionable defamation all over Facebook. Titan could easily sue him over that in any court in the western world and expect to win handily, and Big West could easily sue him for commercializing a ripoff of the VF-0 design as well with every expectation of winning as he credited his "inspiration" right on his website. Your acquaintance (friend?) is not a smart man, to say the least. Acquaintance, mostly through various 3D modeling groups. I've not seen what he's been telling people, but yes, the story he told me (short form) was that an artist bought it for what he assumed was a personal project that turned out to be the Titan Comics. I can look and see if I have the PMs where we discussed it.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Knight26 said: I can look and see if I have the PMs where we discussed it. Eh... it's not like it's a going concern anymore. Titan Comics stopped using his 3D model for their comic in response to the backlash against the design's aesthetic and the unnecessary replacement of the classic Kawamori VF-1 design and opted to trace from photographs of VF-1 Valkyrie toys instead. Why Titan bothered to change the designs in the first place is unclear, since there was literally no reason to do so. It didn't work out so good for them, in the end.
Knight26 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 I found the PM thread from back in 2017 when the comic first launched. He has an "interesting" view on the marketing of derivative work based on copyrighted material. He is Canadian and just says that the US does it wrong, oh well. AS for them no longer using his design, I thought the last few issues still did in the interior artwork.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Knight26 said: He has an "interesting" view on the marketing of derivative work based on copyrighted material. He is Canadian and just says that the US does it wrong, oh well. Canada's laws regarding copyright and derivative works are basically the same as the US's... because they're both based on the 1886 Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, which more or less set the standard for 177 countries on that score.
anime52k8 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 I know I've seen it before but I want to see the original design now (for reference purposes).
Knight26 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) Ask and ye shall receive. It is uglier then I remember and quite sloppy too with some seriously exaggerated proportions. Edited July 29, 2019 by Knight26
Einherjar Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 Wait, there’s mecha in this comic book? I thought the main selling point for it these days is getting expositioned to death every month.
Bolt Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) Saw that a while ago on Pinterest. Had no idea it was RT related. From a modelers perspective, I think it’s pretty awesome. Edited July 29, 2019 by Bolt
Seto Kaiba Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Knight26 said: Ask and ye shall receive. It is uglier then I remember and quite sloppy too with some seriously exaggerated proportions. KILL IT WITH FIRE!
anime52k8 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) it looks like it fell out of a pre-rendered cutscene from a late 90's video game. 2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: KILL IT WITH FIRE! It could always be worse: Edited July 29, 2019 by anime52k8
Convectuoso Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 44 minutes ago, anime52k8 said: it looks like it fell out of a pre-rendered cutscene from a late 90's video game. It could always be worse: What Is That??
Sanity is Optional Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 That's a VF-1 with the ugliest cockpit I've ever seen, and the two backpack things from a RX-78GP01-Fb Gundam "Zephyranthes" Full Burnern stuck to it. Plus slightly modified feet, and part of the leg fast-packs on the legs.
pengbuzz Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 4 hours ago, Knight26 said: 3 hours ago, Bolt said: Looks like a flying billboard for prophylactics.... 1 hour ago, anime52k8 said: it looks like it fell out of a pre-rendered cutscene from a late 90's video game. It could always be worse: Looks like it needs said prophylactics...
azrael Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Knight26 said: Ask and ye shall receive. It is uglier then I remember and quite sloppy too with some seriously exaggerated proportions. I mean, it is passable. 1 hour ago, anime52k8 said: it looks like it fell out of a pre-rendered cutscene from a late 90's video game. It could always be worse: It’s like someone decided to make SD work in a non-deformed setting.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, azrael said: I mean, it is passable. Well, in the sense that a D- is a passing grade... Edited July 30, 2019 by Seto Kaiba
kajnrig Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 Eh... It looks like a fairly standard Gundam "detail-up" conversion kit. Lots of nonsense details thrown all over the place without a thought given to function, or even the semblance of function. I wouldn't say it's bad, per se, just kind of... messy. That huge glass cockpit, though. If that isn't a big ol' "Kick Me" sign, I don't know what is. Those extra long exhaust nozzles/feet, too... But I mean, it's a game effort.
pengbuzz Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 2 hours ago, azrael said: I mean, it is passable. So is a kidney stone, and this is just as painful to bear as one too...
Bolt Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 5 hours ago, anime52k8 said: it looks like it fell out of a pre-rendered cutscene from a late 90's video game. It could always be worse: Gosh... that is a really bad design..
jeniusornome Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 If you google Robotech VGF-14 you'll find more renders of the design. I kinda see what he was going for there, trying to come up with something derivative of the VF-1 but noticeably different, but I think the problem is that he tried to make a VF-1 that didn't look like a VF-1, or an F-14 that didn't look like an F-14. IMO if someone wanted to come up with designs that would avoid any Macross legals, they could have just given up the F-14 base design entirely and used some other contemporary fighter plane. The F-15 might be a little too close to Starscream (or the VF-1 for that matter) to work, but the F-16 and F-18 could have been used as an inspiration instead. The F-16XL would almost work as the first in a line of VFs that eventually included the Alpha fighter, even. Or, since they'd already changed most of the character names, why not just retcon everything to look like it was pulled from a Mospeada design, since that seems to have less strings attached? The story has already changed so much they could just replace "Zentaedi" with... idunno, "Gorbsplats" or whatever, and you'd be really hard pressed to see any Macross left in there. Idunno, I guess it's all irrelevant. The comic isn't even mediocre, someone at Titan is really just phoning it in. Or maybe they all are? I don't think I've seen anything else they've published. I checked this out because morbid curiosity, thinking it would at least be fun, but instead it's... well, it's not.
JB0 Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, jeniusornome said: Or, since they'd already changed most of the character names, why not just retcon everything to look like it was pulled from a Mospeada design, since that seems to have less strings attached? The story has already changed so much they could just replace "Zentaedi" with... idunno, "Gorbsplats" or whatever, and you'd be really hard pressed to see any Macross left in there. That is what I'd do. Even if keeping the zentradi, I'd make my "veritech" look more like an ancestor of the Alpha than a descendant of the Tomcat. ... I'm wondering if that one with the, ummm, bulging cockpit might have been trying to do that from the wrong direction. The front end bears a passing resemblance to the Logan from Southern Cross/Masters Saga.
Bolt Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, JB0 said: I'm wondering if that one with the, ummm, bulging cockpit might have been trying to do that from the wrong direction. The front end bears a passing resemblance to the Loga Haha. Good point.
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