Robotech and REMIX by Titan Comics

[Dynaman]

Was that supposed to be Roy next to Claudia?  He got fat.  Then it looks like Roy killed Global and Claudia covers it up?

[no3Ljm]

3 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Was that supposed to be Roy next to Claudia?  He got fat.  Then it looks like Roy killed Global and Claudia covers it up?

Pineapple Salad can really get you fat.

[TheLoneWolf]

So killing off a character, who's already supposed to die, was their big surprise? That's just pathetic. Sure, Gloval is a memorable character, but he has little impact on the overall plot, so an early death is inconsequential. Kawamori recognized as much. The early drafts of SDF Macross had Global die in the middle of the series and Misa become captain. I suppose Titan's next "shocker" will be the revelation of Gloval's murderer. $10 says it's going to be Robotech's most overused and uninspired villain, T.R. Edwards

[Einherjar]

More gritty as grit can grit.

[TehPW]

I just find it hilarious that the artist thought that it was a good idea to have the wings wide out inside the hangar? That's gonna be a bitch to move those birds to the bay door like that...

 

[Einherjar]

1 hour ago, TehPW said:

I just find it hilarious that the artist thought that it was a good idea to have the wings wide out inside the hangar? That's gonna be a bitch to move those birds to the bay door like that...

 

Come on.  This isn’t being made by people who have any worthwhile experience or interest in aviation or the military.  It’s the same shortcomings everyone ever involved in Robotech had.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

Come on.  This isn’t being made by people who have any worthwhile experience or interest in aviation or the military.

It isn't even being made by people who have any interest in or familiarity with Macross.

Like most Robotech projects, this is a "do it quick, do it cheap, and to hell with the quality" project.

[Podtastic]

13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It isn't even being made by people who have any interest in or familiarity with Macross.

Like most Robotech projects, this is a "do it quick, do it cheap, and to hell with the quality" project.

I don't think they even care about Robotech either. This is like one of those horrible live action comic movies where they cant even be bothered to have the characters' costumes be true to the comics.

[JB0]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It isn't even being made by people who have any interest in or familiarity with Macross.

Like most Robotech projects, this is a "do it quick, do it cheap, and to hell with the quality" project.

It isn't even being made by people who have any interest in or familiarity with human anatomy.

...

I'm sorry, did I go too far?

 

But seriously, the planes aren't even in the top ten things wrong with that last set of pages(or any prior set, for that matter)

Edited January 19, 2018 by JB0

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Podtastic said:

I don't think they even care about Robotech either. This is like one of those horrible live action comic movies where they cant even be bothered to have the characters' costumes be true to the comics.

Outside of its very small, but devoted, fanbase... does anybody care about Robotech besides fans of either Macross or BattleTech wishing it'd hurry up and put the other foot in the grave? 

We know Harmony Gold doesn't.  History suggests the Agramas are much more interested in using the franchise's distribution rights to launder money in tax havens than actually developing anything new.

 

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

It isn't even being made by people who have any interest in or familiarity with human anatomy.

...

I'm sorry, did I go too far?

Quite the contrary, I say you didn't go too far enough!

This is some straight-up uncanny valley nonsense most of the time, with poses and facial expressions that don't line up with what's actually going on.

 

 

[Knight26]

On 1/17/2018 at 2:15 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Someone did... the CG art they stole and later got retroactive permission to use was transparently modeled on a VF-0, to the extent that the original model has the VF-0B/D head.

It wasn't stolen.  I had a long talk with the original creator of the VF-14 fan design featuring in this "comic."  He sold the model to the artist, and the contract did not say it couldn't be used for commercial usage.  He looked into it, and it was not "Stolen" but is being used in a way that was not originally intended, but was not prohibited by the purchase contract, especially given that hte model is only being used as a reference and not as the actual artwork in the comic.

[Einherjar]

53 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

It wasn't stolen.  I had a long talk with the original creator of the VF-14 fan design featuring in this "comic."  He sold the model to the artist, and the contract did not say it couldn't be used for commercial usage.  He looked into it, and it was not "Stolen" but is being used in a way that was not originally intended, but was not prohibited by the purchase contract, especially given that hte model is only being used as a reference and not as the actual artwork in the comic.

Was that the guy who went to a convention and got Shoji Kawamori's signature on an official Robotech product last year?

Edited January 19, 2018 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Knight26 said:

It wasn't stolen.  I had a long talk with the original creator of the VF-14 fan design featuring in this "comic."  He sold the model to the artist, and the contract did not say it couldn't be used for commercial usage.  He looked into it, and it was not "Stolen" but is being used in a way that was not originally intended, but was not prohibited by the purchase contract, especially given that hte model is only being used as a reference and not as the actual artwork in the comic.

Gubaba and I had a chat with the artist behind this design on Facebook not too long ago, and what he told us seems to be quite a bit different from what he told you.  What he told us was that his fanart was used without his knowledge or consent, and that he'd only learned of its use after Titan Comics had sent the first issue to print via a friend who was following the comic.  He also made the claim that he contacted Titan Comics shortly thereafter, and that Titan Comics and Harmony Gold paid him for the continuing use of the fanart in question so that he wouldn't take them to court for using it without permission in the first issue and would not need to design a replacement on short notice.

(Of course, after seeing him get kicked from several different groups for advertising his tissue paper-thin VF-0 knockoff without permission and/or as a 100% original design in true "original character, do not steal" fashion, I'd say he has a screw loose but I'm honestly not convinced he has one screw fully tightened.  He doesn't seem to realize that the only thing stopping HG from suing HIM for commercializing a CG model that's obviously derivative of the VF-1 was that he sold the rights to it to them.)

[Chronocidal]

That nonsense is so twisted it sounds like some kind of reality TV drama pileup.

Let me see if I have this correct.  The guy makes a VF-0 knockoff.  Titan Comics then uses said knockoff in the Robotech comics without his permission, and then pays him after the fact to use it.  Ok, that's all fine and dandy.

Except the "VF-14" isn't a knockoff of a Robotech design, it's a knockoff of a Macross design.  Granted, the VF-0 does look an awful lot like a VF-1, for obvious reasons, but would HG even have a case to make against the guy?  It sounds like a case of "We're going to sue you for selling this design that's actually a knockoff of a property we don't have any rights to, but it's similar enough that we're going to claim it's a knockoff of our own (tangentially related) property."

I mean.. them trying to sue him wouldn't surprise me at all, and it would really show how desperate HG is getting.  But really.. stealing knockoff fan-art of a design that's an in-universe derivative of something you actually own (in the loosest sense of the word), but not part of the franchise you own any part of, and then claiming it's a knockoff of the thing you actually have rights too...

I'm kinda waiting for that moment where some guy pops out of a cubicle at HG, and reveals the entire Robotech franchise has been the worlds longest running "Punk'd" gag in history.  

Edited January 19, 2018 by Chronocidal

[Knight26]

I just looked back over the conversation he and I had.
In short, he sold the 3D model legitimately to the artist to use.  He did not know it would be used in the comic.
Once he started making inquiries (after I brought it to his attention), Titan and HG basically told him not to make waves or they would declare it a derivative work.  He did not mention anything about payments to me, but this was months ago.

https://www.schells.ca/the-un-fleet

Where you too can order his models, lol.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Knight26

[Chronocidal]

LOL  He should self-declare it a derivative work, and go prod Big West about HG stealing designs from Macross Zero.  The art is so bad, I would have no trouble believing they're trying their hardest to draw a VF-0 straight from the source.  

Edited January 19, 2018 by Chronocidal

[Sandman]

On 1/17/2018 at 6:51 AM, Old_Nash said:

Robotech #6

The most best art in this comic...

 

 

 

1

Simon Furman? What the hell? Why is he involved in this?

[TehPW]

5 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

LOL  He should self-declare it a derivative work, and go prod Big West about HG stealing designs from Macross Zero.  The art is so bad, I would have no trouble believing they're trying their hardest to draw a VF-0 straight from the source.  

Does the folks involved in the MWO/Battletech lawsuit know about this?

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

That nonsense is so twisted it sounds like some kind of reality TV drama pileup.

Let me see if I have this correct.  The guy makes a VF-0 knockoff.  Titan Comics then uses said knockoff in the Robotech comics without his permission, and then pays him after the fact to use it.  Ok, that's all fine and dandy.

Except the "VF-14" isn't a knockoff of a Robotech design, it's a knockoff of a Macross design.  Granted, the VF-0 does look an awful lot like a VF-1, for obvious reasons, but would HG even have a case to make against the guy?

Eh, the amateur dramatics he indulged in when he tried (and failed) to market his fanart on various Macross Facebook groups did leave a distinct whiff of reality TV-esque bullsh*t drama on the wind.  He took it rather poorly when people pointed out it was kind of legally and ethically dodgy to sell Macross-based fanart to Harmony Gold, equally dodgy to try to commercialize that fanart for profit when it was clearly derived from the VF-0 (doubly so after selling it to HG), and that said sale made his work Robotech by default and thus unwelcome on most Macross groups.  He ragequit or got banned from half a dozen groups in two days.

HG could probably make a case against him since it's similar enough to the VF-1 design to raise eyebrows and he incorporated VF-1 paintjobs into the CG model's collection of skins, which is a clear violation.

 

6 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

LOL  He should self-declare it a derivative work, and go prod Big West about HG stealing designs from Macross Zero.  The art is so bad, I would have no trouble believing they're trying their hardest to draw a VF-0 straight from the source.  

If he did that, he'd be the first one Big West sued... or at the very least end up a codefendent with HG and Titan.

 

49 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Does the folks involved in the MWO/Battletech lawsuit know about this?

Probably not, though it wouldn't help them any.

[Chronocidal]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If he did that, he'd be the first one Big West sued... or at the very least end up a codefendent with HG and Titan.

I mean, I can't say that would bother me much anyway.  It would be a fittingly ironic end to his venture.  I just doubt Big West would bother with pursuing a suit against what amounts to a hobbyist, while HG is selling prints of a VF-0-derived design outright. 

Really though, I feel like if they cared that much, they would have slapped HG upside the head with a C&D already.  It's not like people in Japan aren't aware of stuff they do.

[JB0]

I sort of feel like the VF-0 is close enough to a VF-1 that HG could make a reasonable argument that they have a license.  I know this is a sacrilegious stance to take, but... it is REALLY hard to argue the VF-0 is anything other than a "VF-1 Katoki version", and they DO have a license to use the VF-1.

They might have an uphill fight, and certainly the entire internet would be against them, but... it is pretty much the only place where their classic "we own all of Macross" stance could even potentially be justified.

[TheLoneWolf]

8 hours ago, JB0 said:

I sort of feel like the VF-0 is close enough to a VF-1 that HG could make a reasonable argument that they have a license.  I know this is a sacrilegious stance to take, but... it is REALLY hard to argue the VF-0 is anything other than a "VF-1 Katoki version", and they DO have a license to use the VF-1.

That's pretty much my thinking too. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one guilty of sacrilegious thoughts.

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I mean, I can't say that would bother me much anyway.  It would be a fittingly ironic end to his venture.  I just doubt Big West would bother with pursuing a suit against what amounts to a hobbyist, while HG is selling prints of a VF-0-derived design outright. 

As the originator of the art, and as someone who publicly claims that it's both an original work wholly owned by him AND has also admitted publicly that it's strongly derivative of the VF-1 and VF-0, it's a cert that he'd end up with a summons... whether he would be charged with copyright infringement on his own or would become a party to HG's defense is down to Big West's temperment and/or Harmony Gold's personal inclincation.

 

9 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Really though, I feel like if they cared that much, they would have slapped HG upside the head with a C&D already.  It's not like people in Japan aren't aware of stuff they do.

Their saving grace is probably that Titan Comics jettisoned the artist's original VF-0B-style head and replaced it with heads that are taken right off the VF-1.

 

8 hours ago, JB0 said:

I sort of feel like the VF-0 is close enough to a VF-1 that HG could make a reasonable argument that they have a license.  I know this is a sacrilegious stance to take, but... it is REALLY hard to argue the VF-0 is anything other than a "VF-1 Katoki version", and they DO have a license to use the VF-1.

They might have an uphill fight, and certainly the entire internet would be against them, but... it is pretty much the only place where their classic "we own all of Macross" stance could even potentially be justified.

The two designs are similar enough that it'd be down to a jury in court to decide if they were different enough to be considered a distinct design.

[Einherjar]

These days I care more about results than the drama behind the scenes, especially if it's just Internet drama involving crazy people.  In the end, people's work ended up on a self contained and self-absorbed comic book adaptation with no long term implications and may someday end up on an expensive art book somewhere down the line.  Who cares.

[NZEOD]

On ‎25‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 6:15 PM, Old_Nash said:

MY EYES!!!

Those writers/artists names... is it just me or do they kinda sound like bad porn actors names...

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Einherjar said:

These days I care more about results than the drama behind the scenes, especially if it's just Internet drama involving crazy people.  In the end, people's work ended up on a self contained and self-absorbed comic book adaptation with no long term implications and may someday end up on an expensive art book somewhere down the line.  Who cares.

All things considered, isn't this a bit contradictory?

I mean, internet drama is essentially the only "result" that the Robotech franchise can be counted on to produce and the franchise is run and represented by crazy people.  The last twelve years or so have been marked by almost nothing but internet drama between the acrimony over Tommy Yune's reboot to the Robotech canon, the witch hunt over generally negative fan reviews of Shadow Chronicles, the stealth cancellation of Shadow Rising and lies about it still being in development, the acrimony over their adaptation of MOSPEADA: Love Live Alive, the massive backlash over the Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter, the amusingly karmic self-destruction of the Robotech Academy Kickstarter, and Titan Comics' hat trick of controversies by engaging heavily in tracing, stealing the VF design, and having the comic written by a writer notoriously dogged by accusations of sexual harassment, plus Harmony Gold's standard lot of spurious and absurd lawsuits and legal demands... and that's just the highlights!

Let's be honest here, none of us are following this comic thread out of any real interest in the comic itself.  This thread is all about people going "Gather round!  Gather round!  Let's all look at the freak!" every time a new piece of increasingly terrible art is released online.  

[barurutor]

Just out of curiosity's sake i contacted the photographer (http://www.jaytablantephotography.com/) who did that SDF-1 bridge photo asking if titan comics paid him to use the work. will post if he replies.

[Seto Kaiba]

9 minutes ago, barurutor said:

Just out of curiosity's sake i contacted the photographer (http://www.jaytablantephotography.com/) who did that SDF-1 bridge photo asking if titan comics paid him to use the work. will post if he replies.

IIRC the artist confirmed back when Titan was teasing issue #1 that they had given permission for the comic to use the art.

I know they also paid Artgerm to redraw an existing piece their of Macross fanart featuring DYRL? Minmay to put her in her dress from the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series instead, for one of the other variant covers.

[barurutor]

Yup, got confirmation that the photographer was paid for the photo.

[hachi]

On 1/18/2018 at 11:59 PM, Einherjar said:

More gritty as grit can grit.

I've forgotten what other forum it was, but the poster described it as 'stylish'. In another forum the grit was being 'realistic'. This comic may not be palatable for hard core SDF Macross fans, but there definitely are some people buying this comic. I come across these comments because I regularly check comic forums for graphic novel news. As for me, this whole thing has turned me off Titan Comics.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, hachi said:

I've forgotten what other forum it was, but the poster described it as 'stylish'.

Now, I'm no art major... but I'm pretty sure the only artistic movement this should be filed under is "bowel". 

 

2 hours ago, hachi said:

In another forum the grit was being 'realistic'.

That's a fairly grave insult to reality, which is consistently better-written than this shabby mess.

This comic is so poorly composed it's more Misère-en-scène than mise-en-scène. 

I don't mean to say it's dreadful, but I'm pretty sure the cenobites would consider it an aperitif.  

 

2 hours ago, hachi said:

This comic may not be palatable for hard core SDF Macross fans, but there definitely are some people buying this comic. I come across these comments because I regularly check comic forums for graphic novel news. As for me, this whole thing has turned me off Titan Comics.

From the reactions I've seen on various Robotech Facebook groups, it's not all that palatable for the hardcore Robotech fans either.  Most seem to find the art style offensively off-putting, and even the most devoted and vocal Harmony Gold kiss-asses have been seen struggling to find anything nice to say about it.  

Sure, there are some people buying it... but it seems like an awful lot of them are buying it out of a morbid sense of obligation to the dying Robotech franchise than because they actually like it.

[Einherjar]

2 hours ago, hachi said:

I've forgotten what other forum it was, but the poster described it as 'stylish'. In another forum the grit was being 'realistic'. This comic may not be palatable for hard core SDF Macross fans, but there definitely are some people buying this comic. I come across these comments because I regularly check comic forums for graphic novel news. As for me, this whole thing has turned me off Titan Comics.

I hope they weren't being mildly prejudice about the anime style of the original series.  Also, I hope some of those commenters are actually women who appreciate how 'realistic' and 'stylish' it is.

Back in the day there were people who legitimately liked the Wildstorm and Dynamite Comic Voltron crossover for their style over their story and believed that both would bring the franchise back to the mainstream.  I really don't take them seriously.

[Dynaman]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

From the reactions I've seen on various Robotech Facebook groups, it's not all that palatable for the hardcore Robotech fans either.  Most seem to find the art style offensively off-putting, and even the most devoted and vocal Harmony Gold kiss-asses have been seen struggling to find anything nice to say about it.  

 

If only that were true - there are at least a few on the RT boards proper saying they love it.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Dynaman said:

If only that were true - there are at least a few on the RT boards proper saying they love it.

That there are a few out there saying they love it doesn't make my statement untrue though... the few surviving Robotech boards have been virtual ghost towns for over a decade, populated by only the most devoted, die-hard Robotech fans.  You know, the kind of complete nutters who'd declare Harmony Gold were set to dethrone Hershey and Mars and become the leading chocolatiers in the world if Tommy Yune sold them an old Whitman's Sampler box full of dog turds as long as he first scribbled "ROBOTECH" on the box and told them it was Carl Macek's vision.

The official Robotech boards in particular are a terrible barometer of the fandom's actual opinion... they're not just a ghost town haunted by a few sycophants, they ended up that way because mods there only permit users to post gushing, effusive praise of Robotech products.  

The rather more populous and active Robotech Facebook groups are a better indicator of how the comics are perceived by fans.  On those, the vast majority of fans make no secret of finding Titan Comics' Robotech cringeworthy at best.  Very few of them will actually admit to buying it, and the few well-known habitual HG brown-nosers are struggling to find something nice to say about it in the face of overwhelmingly negative reactions to it.  Most topics posted about it are the same as the posts in this thread: "Gather round! Gather round! Let's all look at the freak!" every time a few pages from the latest issue are released.

[peter]

Lol, I had an account over there about 10 years ago but stopped going there since I got banned.  Apparently they didn't appreciate my trolling, go figure.