1/48 Gakken Legioss Armo Soldier review???

[dkev]

Hello Folks

I just noticed that there are 1/48 Scale Legioss Armo Soldier kits by GakKen available and I was wondering if they are worth a purchase???  I have one of the Pinky Space Crabs and would love to get the Armo Soldier in the same scale.  

Any information forthcoming would GREATLY Appreciated!!

Thank You!!

Edited July 27, 2017 by dkev

[jenius]

Is there a 1/48? Here's all the reviews I've done of Gakken toys. 

http://anymoon.com/blog/?cat=4

[dkev]

It's a model kit from what I can see on the listing but the box pictures that are visible just don't show enough detail of what the final product will look like IMHO!!  So before I put down the money, I was hoping for some information from someone in the know.

[mickyg]

Got a link to what you're looking at?  There are numerous experts around here who could probably point you in the right direction with a bit more info.

[jenius]

Is it the Imaii or Aoshima re-release  of the triple change model? 

 

This thread should be merged with the Mospeada thread. 

[dkev]

Hello Folks

Here is one of the listings on Ebay;

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Genesis-Climber-Mospeada-1-48-Legioss-AFC-01I-Armo-Soldier-Model-Kit-Gakken-/252431029440?hash=item3ac60fd4c0:g:vm4AAOSwOVpXZuYF

Hope someone has seen this before.

 

 

[Convectuoso]

Does it say "cimplified"?

[dkev]

Probably!!!  I just want to know what you folks think of the "look"!!  I surely realize that it is "not" even close to the quality of the new WAVE Kit in 1/72 but if the proportions and look are sort of okay I want to get it.  Mine you I've already got the 1/48 fully transformable kit but if the Gakken kit would looks "better" then I would lean towards getting it. Unless there was a better resin garage kit out there somewhere??????  

This all would have been a mute point if they (OR SOMEONE) had just made some Invid/Inbit mecha in 1/72 or 1/100 scale!!!

 

dkev

[Darth Mingus]

This looks like the 1980's model that they based the US Monogram GoBots Leader 1 model on (they also released a Cy-Kill model based on the Mospeada Ride armour).  I built the Monogram one 30 years ago and it was representative of 1980s model technology.

Here is a video showing the Monogram contents: 

 

[dkev]

I have one of those in the Stash and know it well.   I brought two back in the day, built one kept the other.  So you think the Gakken kit in my EBAY link was built using the kit above as a base???  It would make some sense to not totally re-create the wheel  to a degree and as a result remove the "transformation" parts so to speak.  In any event do you folks think that the GAKKEN kit is worth (look and proportionality (old style construction I can deal with)) what they are asking for it???  Once again I do want a Armor Soldier in the same scale as the 1/48 Pinky Space Crab and this looks like it is the only game in town.

dkev

[captain america]

I used to have all three Gakken Legioss kits. Short version: the proportions and detail of the kit are a let-down. In fact, it's probably the most hideously-proportioned of all the 1/48 toys and models and like most "official" releases, it's too small to be a proper 1/48. There's a reason why I took the time and effort to create a full-scratch Legioss in 1/48: no one else had ever done the design justice. 

The Gakken kits are great for collecting and sentimental value, but to me that's where their value stops.

[dkev]

Hello Captain

So that's it then ....... Major MAJOR BUMMER!!!!  So before I think of going to the stash and start building the old Monogram Leader One kit I have is there any other option (trying not to blow the bank) to scale with the Pinky Space Crab????

dkev

[captain america]

3 hours ago, dkev said:

Hello Captain

So that's it then ....... Major MAJOR BUMMER!!!!  So before I think of going to the stash and start building the old Monogram Leader One kit I have is there any other option (trying not to blow the bank) to scale with the Pinky Space Crab????

dkev

It partly depends on how the upcoming "1/48" Legioss toy turns-out. My first choice would obviously be my 1/48 kit.

[dkev]

Hey Captain

I thought that "ship had sailed" so to speak???  Now if it hasn't color me GREATLY INTERESTED!!!!

dkev

[Salamander]

The Mospeada kits were never made by Gakken, but by model company Imai.

Generally speaking, their single-mode 1/15 Ride Armours and 1/72 Legiosses are better proportioned and easier to build that their transformable 1/12 Ride Armours and 1/48 Legiosses.

The transformable Ride armours aren't too bad proportion-wise, but it's pretty much impossible to transform them without paint scraping (also, very fragile). The 1/48 Legioss has compromises proportion-wise (but still better than the toys), and is fairly easy to transform (except paint scraping). IIRC, it has metal retractable landing gear.

If you want detail, go with the non-transformable kits. If you have the money, go with Wave's Legioss kit for more detail.

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Salamander
More information

[dkev]

3 hours ago, Salamander said:

The Mospeada kits were never made by Gakken, but by model company Imai.

Generally speaking, their single-mode 1/15 Ride Armours and 1/72 Legiosses are better proportioned and easier to build that their transformable 1/12 Ride Armours and 1/48 Legiosses.

The transformable Ride armours aren't too bad proportion-wise, but it's pretty much impossible to transform them without paint scraping (also, very fragile). The 1/48 Legioss has compromises proportion-wise (but still better than the toys), and is fairly easy to transform (except paint scraping). IIRC, it has metal retractable landing gear.

If you want detail, go with the non-transformable kits. If you have the money, go with Wave's Legioss kit for more detail.

 

So even though the box says GAKKEN on it it was "actually" made by Imai???  OooooooooooKay!!!  You know I would go with the wave kit but then I would not be able to "pose" or "diorama" the kit to scale with the 1/48 Pinky Space Crab resin kit that I have.  Now if there is a 1/72 scale space crab out there somewhere WHERE CAN I GET ONE??????

So I'm back to essentially square one; buy the Gakken (or whoever made the thing) 1/48 kit or just get down to the stash and pull the Monogram reboxed and rebranded Leader One (Legioss)!!!

Edited August 1, 2017 by dkev

[Convectuoso]

Here's another option:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282584803430

[Salamander]

1 hour ago, dkev said:

So even though the box says GAKKEN on it it was "actually" made by Imai???  OooooooooooKay!!!  You know I would go with the wave kit but then I would not be able to "pose" or "diorama" the kit to scale with the 1/48 Pinky Space Crab resin kit that I have.  Now if there is a 1/72 scale space crab out there somewhere WHERE CAN I GET ONE??????

So I'm back to essentially square one; buy the Gakken (or whoever made the thing) 1/48 kit or just get down to the stash and pull the Monogram reboxed and rebranded Leader One (Legioss)!!!

Find a reissue of the kit by Imai. They've reissued it several times, the last of which was in the very late 1990s/early 2000s (after that they went bankrupt).

Pictures of mine in robot mode can be found here: http://www.silhouetteformula.net/models/mecha/mospeada/biglegioss.htm It's been about 15 years since I built that one...

 

[captain america]

6 hours ago, Salamander said:

The Mospeada kits were never made by Gakken, but by model company Imai.

Generally speaking, their single-mode 1/15 Ride Armours and 1/72 Legiosses are better proportioned and easier to build that their transformable 1/12 Ride Armours and 1/48 Legiosses.

The transformable Ride armours aren't too bad proportion-wise, but it's pretty much impossible to transform them without paint scraping (also, very fragile). The 1/48 Legioss has compromises proportion-wise (but still better than the toys), and is fairly easy to transform (except paint scraping). IIRC, it has metal retractable landing gear.

If you want detail, go with the non-transformable kits. If you have the money, go with Wave's Legioss kit for more detail.

 

-Sorry, that's incorrect. The Gakken kit was marketed and sold under Gakken packaging, is non-transformable and has  different proportions (and completely different parts breakdown) to Imai's kit; they are as different as different can be. 

-Also incorrect: the floppy arm mess of the "1/55" Toynami stems from the fact that they "borrowed" the arm design of the old IMAI kit. The kits were absolutely God-awful for this because the old polycaps/joints were crap. Also, the old IMAI kit suffered from stubby leg syndrome, which was corrected by Toynami/Aoshima when they adopted the design to make their toy. In fact, ALL of the modern Legioss toys beat the pants off the old IMAI kit for proportions AND durability, regardless of their respective QC issues.

The old 1/48 IMAI kit is still available relatively cheap, but unless you're going to glue all the joints fixed, it will be a posing nightmare. To make it even remotely posable you would have to overhaul all the joints and IMHO, is not worth the time and effort. Take it from the guy that built a half-dozen of these back in the day.

Finally, an image demonstrating the proportional differences in the kits. 

[dkev]

Hey Salamander

Now that looks really NICE!!!!!!!  I see that you got rid of that that 'boxy" missile launcher which IMHO looked out of place.  By the way, if you can remember how did you get such a great "red" color scheme??   Now I built this kit back in the 80s so I was probably using a brush to paint it.  Hopefully with the equipment I have no it will look a bit better.

 

dkev

 

[Salamander]

15 hours ago, captain america said:

-Sorry, that's incorrect. The Gakken kit was marketed and sold under Gakken packaging, is non-transformable and has  different proportions (and completely different parts breakdown) to Imai's kit; they are as different as different can be.

-Also incorrect: the floppy arm mess of the "1/55" Toynami stems from the fact that they "borrowed" the arm design of the old IMAI kit. The kits were absolutely God-awful for this because the old polycaps/joints were crap. Also, the old IMAI kit suffered from stubby leg syndrome, which was corrected by Toynami/Aoshima when they adopted the design to make their toy. In fact, ALL of the modern Legioss toys beat the pants off the old IMAI kit for proportions AND durability, regardless of their respective QC issues.

The old 1/48 IMAI kit is still available relatively cheap, but unless you're going to glue all the joints fixed, it will be a posing nightmare. To make it even remotely posable you would have to overhaul all the joints and IMHO, is not worth the time and effort. Take it from the guy that built a half-dozen of these back in the day.

Ah, didn't know that . Although I do wonder whether the box-art/design was done by the same people who did the box art/designs for Imai, because that's one of the reasons I assumed it was one of their kits sold under a different brand name (see mecha kits by LS).

With "toys" I meant compared to the old Gakken toys, especially the 1/35, which frankly is misproportioned in almost a comical way.

Can't say I've had problems with floppy joints on any of my Imai mecha kits (and I've built quite a few of them), but then I treat them as models, not action figures. If you want a "floppy mess", try building one of Fujimi's Yuusha kits (f'cking nightmare, I've build their Great Mightgaine and it was an absolute disaster). I'll take one of Imai's kits over that any day...

12 hours ago, dkev said:

Hey Salamander

Now that looks really NICE!!!!!!!  I see that you got rid of that that 'boxy" missile launcher which IMHO looked out of place.  By the way, if you can remember how did you get such a great "red" color scheme??   Now I built this kit back in the 80s so I was probably using a brush to paint it.  Hopefully with the equipment I have no it will look a bit better.

 

dkev

 

It's just hand-painted Tamiya gloss red and gloss white, both not thinned enough. The picture makes it look way better than it is.

[dkev]

Just to be curious does anyone have a "reliable" number of the "ACTUAL" (and I use that term loosely) Height of the Legioss in Armo Soldier mode (feet or meters or etc. doesn't matter)???

 

dkev

Edited August 3, 2017 by dkev

[dkev]

On 8/2/2017 at 3:50 PM, dkev said:

Just to be curious does anyone have a "reliable" number of the "ACTUAL" (and I use that term loosely) Height of the Legioss in Armo Soldier mode (feet or meters or etc. doesn't matter)???

 

dkev

I was just trying to get an accurate picture of what the available models in 1/100, 72 and 48 scale SHOULD BE in height and girth in Armo Soldier mode in comparison to what they really are.   These may be a bit off (especially the width) but this is what I have found so far;

AFC01H Legioss (Eta)

ARMO-SOLDIER MODE

Total Height: 8.75 meters

Armo - Soldier Height
Feet	Inches	1/100	1/72	1/48
28.70735	344.4882	3.444882	4.784558	7.176838

 

Total Width:

4.3 meters (seems a bit wide given the height (but who knows its Anime)

Armo - Soldier Width
Feet	Inches	1/100	1/72	1/48
14.1076	169.2912	1.692912	2.351267	3.5269

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by dkev

[tekering]

As has been addressed elsewhere, the official stats on Mospeada mecha are irreconcilable with onscreen evidence, model kit scales, or real-world physics.

For example, all these Mospeada kit accessories are officially 1:72 scale:

Note the standing pilot would be exactly six feet tall at 1:72 scale, but the sitting pilot is the size of a small child; Imai's undersized Armo-fighter cockpit required an undersized pilot.

The stowed ride armor is designed to fit in the chest cavity of Wave's 1:72 Armo-soldier, but it's clearly way too small for a 1:72 figure to wear (much less ride)!

Imai and Wave both produced 1:72 Legioss kits with accurate proportions, following the official published dimensions... and both are clearly much smaller than they'd actually have to be to accommodate a 1:72 pilot.

If you increase the official stats by 50% -- 1.5x their existing dimensions, in other words -- you'll probably have more realistic measurements, and more consistent with their animated depictions as well.

[dkev]

Just to be curious is that standing figure 1" high (6 feet at 1/72) ???  If it is you are CLEARLY right the model is too small at its supposed scale of 1/72!!!  Major Bummer!!!

On the same note is the OLD 1/48 "transformable" Legioss model true to that scale???

Thanks 

dkev

 

 

 

[tekering]

3 hours ago, dkev said:

Just to be curious is that standing figure 1" high (6 feet at 1/72) ?

That's right... and all the Imai, Gakken, Aoshima and Toynami merchandise follow the official stats just as closely, meaning significantly undersized Legioss.

Now, this is purely conjecture on my part, but I suspect officially-published dimensions may have been deliberately fudged for Imai's marketing purposes... so what could be sold as 1:48 scale merchandise would actually scale with all of Bandai's 1:55 product (especially the best-selling Macross Valkyries, the obvious antecedent to the Legioss).

At any rate, your Pinky Space Crab is an actual 1:48 scale model, which means any licensed Legioss is gonna look a little small by comparison.

[derex3592]

Whyyyyyy can't we just have Bandai HM-R Mospeada stuff that looks that damn good??!!!! 

[tekering]

19 minutes ago, derex3592 said:

Whyyyyyy can't we just have Bandai HM-R Mospeada stuff that looks that damn good??!!!! 

While I assume your question is rhetorical, I have conducted market research that may lead to an answer...

Search Google for 機甲創世記モスピーダ (Kikō Sōseiki Mosupīda), and you get about 217,000 hits.

Search Google for 超時空要塞マクロス (Chōjikū Yōsai Makurosu), and you get about 1,700,000 hits.  That's about 8 times more interest than in Mospeada.

HM-R stuff is overwhelmingly Macross-based, since that's what sells:

Conduct a similar search on Yahoo! Japan auctions, and you'll find 167 Mospeada items, versus 2,240 SDF Macross items.  That's over 13 times more product than Mospeada!

Incidentally, even Macross pales in comparison to Gundam:

Search Google for 機動戦士ガンダム (Kidou Senshi Gandamu), and you get about 13,300,000 results.  That's about 8 times more interest than in Macross.

Similarly, you'll find over 39,000 MS Gundam listings on Yahoo! Japan auctions, nearly 18 times more product than Macross!

The numbers don't lie.  Gundam is Bandai's cash cow, Macross is a niche market, and Mospeada's barely a blip on the radar.

[derex3592]

yeh, yeh......i know...but a guy can dream!

[dkev]

3 hours ago, tekering said:

That's right... and all the Imai, Gakken, Aoshima and Toynami merchandise follow the official stats just as closely, meaning significantly undersized Legioss.

Now, this is purely conjecture on my part, but I suspect officially-published dimensions may have been deliberately fudged for Imai's marketing purposes... so what could be sold as 1:48 scale merchandise would actually scale with all of Bandai's 1:55 product (especially the best-selling Macross Valkyries, the obvious antecedent to the Legioss).

At any rate, your Pinky Space Crab is an actual 1:48 scale model, which means any licensed Legioss is gonna look a little small by comparison.

Well isn't this all bloody wonderful!!!  Stated scales that are not accurate,   I finally get a Invid mecha and Legioss Armo-soldiers look stupidly short as compared to the original anime!!!  

One last question.  The IMAI kis are not accurate in 1/48 and especially in 1/72, is the wave kit closer to accurately being 1/72???

Zdkev

[tekering]

6 hours ago, dkev said:

 The IMAI kis are not accurate in 1/48 and especially in 1/72, is the wave kit closer to accurately being 1/72?

The Wave and Imai 1:72 kits are almost identical in size, as they rely on the same official stats to determine dimensions:

So they're both accurately 1:72 scale, technically.  They're just not realistically 1:72 scale, that's the problem.  

Now, if you want your (realistically-scaled) 1:48 Pinky Space Crab to look appropriately-scaled to any of the (so-called) 1:48 Legioss kits or toys available, might I suggest building your Pinky posed in flight mode...?

Minor scale inconsistencies are always easier to justify when taking relative distance into account, like with a display of this nature.  

Unfortunately, I fear I'll have to do the same with my upcoming "King Crab" builds, which will require larger and more robust stands to support their significantly greater weight...

 

 

[dkev]

OMG that Legioss and Tread are BEAUTIFUL !!!!  Where can I find them???

dkev

[Hiriyu]

Those are the Toynami/Aoshima "1/55" toys.

[dkev]

Found the pictures below a few minutes ago.  they are drawings of the "relative" sizes of Mosdpeada mecha and they "implie" how "off" these kits actually are!!!

 

dkbev

Edited August 14, 2017 by dkev

[captain america]

For what it's worth, my 1/48 BUSTER (Legioss Soldier mode) is just about 24cm to the top of the shoulders, minus the clearance of the shoulder-pod or head antennae, which would give it a real-world height of about 11.52m. Substantially taller than the 8.75m stats, yet when compared to my same-scale Crabs, they most closely resemble the size comparison pic above. Just sayin'.