YOU'RE YELLOW! VF-25F turning all sorts of colors

[armentage]

I just took my original 2008 Bandai VF-25 Messiah out of it's box for the first time in about 7 years.   Things have not gone so well inside the box...

This is the original Messiah, not the Renewal DX version.   I had it on a shelf out of direct sunlight for about 3 or 4 months back in late 2009, and it's been its box ever since.  The last time I saw it, I was dismayed by a slight difference in the whiteness of the nose-cone area.    I took it out to zoom around the living room yesterday and was pleasantly surprised!  The industrious mimsy's that live in my closet decided to give it a touch up.

 

Turning the Messiah over, I was treated to an more yellowy goodness:

 

 

Even the interiors of the wheel wells were not safe from the yellowy hands of time:

 

[chyll2]

Nice Isamu kitbash lol

[davidwhangchoi]

1 hour ago, armentage said:

I just took my original 2008 Bandai VF-25 Messiah out of it's box for the first time in about 7 years.   Things have not gone so well inside the box...

This is the original Messiah, not the Renewal DX version.   I had it on a shelf out of direct sunlight for about 3 or 4 months back in late 2009, and it's been its box ever since.  The last time I saw it, I was dismayed by a slight difference in the whiteness of the nose-cone area.    I took it out to zoom around the living room yesterday and was pleasantly surprised!  The industrious mimsy's that live in my closet decided to give it a touch up.

 

Turning the Messiah over, I was treated to an more yellowy goodness:

 

 

Even the interiors of the wheel wells were not safe from the yellowy hands of time:

 

it looks like Bandai used a bad type plastic for some of it's parts that yellow. If you look up SNES yellowing you will see that nintendo used some plastics that yellowed on some of their models while some did not. many of them were just like your vf-25F that had parts completely white while other parts yellow. 

 

 

[Sandman]

Yeah I had that snes that yellowed. It was bizarre. Also every one of my orginal vf-25f valks yellowed. One had never been taken out of the box. Needless to say I sold them all off (except the snes).

[no3Ljm]

Sorry to see this happened to you. 

Curious. If anyone applied topcoat on their v1's VF-25 before, would that help preventing the yellowing on the plastics?

 

[big F]

Worrying to see on something that is essentially an expensive toy aimed at collectors. 

Youd think they'd thought that through.

 

 Puts me off buying any. I have had enough of that with my Chunky monkeys, and they are the best part of thirty years old so have an excuse.

[Chronocidal]

I don't think they thought anything through on the early DX VF-25s.  I can't say those were aimed at collectors at all with a straight face, because so many sloppy decisions were made, and so many corners were cut.  The fact that they're yellowing that badly is really no surprise given the overall quality of that line of toys.

I don't think I've seen anything yellowing nearly that bad with the renewals.

[Sandman]

13 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I don't think they thought anything through on the early DX VF-25s.  I can't say those were aimed at collectors at all with a straight face, because so many sloppy decisions were made, and so many corners were cut.  The fact that they're yellowing that badly is really no surprise given the overall quality of that line of toys.

I don't think I've seen anything yellowing nearly that bad with the renewals.

Some people of this forum have mentioned yellowing on the renewal vf-25F and VF-171 ex alto. I've also seen a few yellowed on yahoo auctions japan.

[armentage]

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

Some people of this forum have mentioned yellowing on the renewal vf-25F and VF-171 ex alto. I've also seen a few yellowed on yahoo auctions japan.

I have the VF-171 Alto Ex.  I have had it on display in a china cabinet for about 3 years, dangerously close to sunlight.   I can confirm that it has in fact yellowed A BIT.  It's somewhat noticable, especially if you compare the plastic to newer, whiter pieces.   However, it is very, very subtle.  Nothing like the what has happened to the VF-25F.  It's really just deplorable.  It's not like they don't know which plastics yellow and which ones don't; or perhaps, it isn't the most talented mechanical engineering graduates that wind up designing toys for insane adults with too much time/money on their hands?

 

[kajnrig]

Even up through the YF-30 there were yellowing issues. I remember seeing just such a toy selling on here for fairly cheap because of it. I wonder if it's just something within manufacturing tolerances and sometimes there's just a bad batch.

I mean, the obvious solution is to paint it, but I can't imagine how much more premium the prices would become...

[davidwhangchoi]

8 hours ago, Sandman said:

Yeah I had that snes that yellowed. It was bizarre. Also every one of my orginal vf-25f valks yellowed. One had never been taken out of the box. Needless to say I sold them all off (except the snes).

there are some snes that never yellowed and some that had certain parts yellow while the tops unaffected. it's been documented:

here's quote from Nintendo regarding the yellowing or some and some don't"

Quote

Hi!

Thank you for contacting us. That’s an interesting question! For the Super NES, this is a normal condition and no cause for alarm. Cleaning or handling the system will have minimal impact to change or revive the original color.

The Super NES, as well as our other systems, are made with a plastic containing flame-retardant chemicals to meet safety guidelines. Over time, the plastic will age and discolor both because of these chemicals as well as from the normal heat generated from the product or exposure to light. Because of the light color of the plastic of the SNES and NES, this discoloration is more easily seen than with other darker plastics such as on the N64 and the Nintendo GameCube.

Thanks for your email!
Nintendo of America Inc.
Casey Ludwig

  

Quote

That’s actually a fairly accurate answer as to what’s happening to our old electronics but it’s not just light and or heat that’s causing it, but also exposure to air itself. It’s pretty much unavoidable. The only time you may not have a yellowing piece of hardware is if you were lucky enough to get a balanced batch of plastic. 

and further info:

Quote

 contacted Dr. Rudolph D. Deanin, founder of the graduate program in Plastics Engineering at the University of Massachusetts, Lowell and director of the program for over thirty years. I told him everything I know about plastic chassis discoloration in both the Super Nintendo and Macintosh computers and asked what he thought might be causing it.

“The plastics most commonly used to make the structural cases for electronic equipment are polypropylene, impact styrene, and ABS,” replied Deanin. “These all tend to discolor and embrittle gradually when exposed to UV and/or heat. They become oxidized and develop conjugated unsaturation, which produces color. They crosslink or degrade, which causes brittleness.”

From looking at a stamp on the Super Nintendo’s plastic case, I learned that the case is composed of ABS, which is a rugged, durable plastic that is sadly more susceptible to discoloration and degradation from both UV and heat than the alternatives.

“There are other plastics which would be more stable,” Deanin continued, “but manufacturers avoid them because they are more expensive and/or more difficult to process.”

Instead of using more expensive plastics, manufactures put additives known as stabilizers, absorbers, or blockers into the plastic mixture to reduce the effects of degradation. They also get creative with their use of pigmentation.

“Since most discoloration is toward yellowing, some manufacturers add a little blue to neutralize the yellow,” Deanin said. “This gives a temporary reprieve, but eventually the yellow keeps growing and overpowers it anyway.”

looks like Bandai has the same issue.

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by davidwhangchoi
additional info

[Cowboy17]

I have a Metal Material Impulse Gundam that yellowed after 3 years in a box. I had it out on display for a few months, boxed it up, and the next time I saw it several years later every white/grey part on it had yellowed.  

[no3Ljm]

 

[Lolicon]

Plastic and human skin don't stay young forever. 

Enjoy your toys and youth while you can.

Clear coating may halt or slow the yellowing if oxidation is the cause. But I don't have enough data on that. I'll let you guys know if any of my customized valks start to yellow (since they're all clear coated). 

[HardlyNever]

18 hours ago, Lolicon said:

Clear coating may halt or slow the yellowing if oxidation is the cause. But I don't have enough data on that. I'll let you guys know if any of my customized valks start to yellow (since they're all clear coated). 

Are they completely sealed (i.e. non-transformable)?  If they aren't completely sealed, are they clear-coated on all sides of the plastic?

It would be interested if the outside didn't yellow over time, but the inside of the parts did.

[Lolicon]

3 hours ago, HardlyNever said:

Are they completely sealed (i.e. non-transformable)?  If they aren't completely sealed, are they clear-coated on all sides of the plastic?

It would be interested if the outside didn't yellow over time, but the inside of the parts did.

If the surface is visible, I sealed it. Which is why valks take more effort to completely cover vs Gundam and why it really, really helps if I can disassemble them.

Only some areas aren't completely sealed that aren't visible, like the insides of the landing gear bay doors. It'll be interesting to see if they yellow while the sealed parts don't. But it's going to be a long wait and I don't plan on sticking them in the sun.

[davidwhangchoi]

yeah, i think clear coat is a good idea. myswell use UV coat. 

those plastic colors should last a long time without w/o clear coating. from the same article, there' a lot of snes that never yellowed and those console are 25 years old!

just further quote: saying it must've been from the factory:

Quote

...they didn’t get the catalyst or flame retardant mixture quite right and more residues were left over in the top half’s plastic batch, thus causing it to degrade more rapidly over time. And by the time Nintendo produced the later runs of Super Nintendos, they had probably fixed the problems in the manufacturing process of their plastic, meaning that those later models aren’t as susceptible to oxidation as the earlier models are.

Some Super Nintendo consoles discolor only on the bottom half, some discolor only on the top half (like mine), and some on both sides evenly. Which side(s) get discolored is based only upon the luck of the draw — that is, which plastic batch was used to create each part of the plastic shell, and which manufacturing run the different halves of the case came from when the consoles were being assembled.

i hope my arcadia and yamato's stay non yellowed for a long time.

 

 

on a side note: i know many have tried to whiten their yellowed valks in the past only to see the valk temporarily fixed and then yellow even worse than it was before...

but the recently people have been reversing the yellow on the snes using sunlight. interesting:

 

 

 

[Chronocidal]

I've heard bits about how to prevent yellowing paint, especially as it pertains to plastic models, and it usually involves mixing a very tiny amount of black paint into the white, or possibly some other shade.  Apparently it's also used to prevent yellowing in housing paint for interior and exterior walls.

This could also be why Bandai and Arcadia seem to love tinting their bright white plastic with some other shade.

The internal degradation of the plastic is probably just going to happen over time, and heat and UV/light just happen to be accelerants.  When I moved out after college, I dug through the box of my old G.I. Joes, and both my Crusader Shuttle and Hurricane had yellowed severely, with the bright blue of the Hurricane actually winding up a weird sort of sea-green. 

Oddly enough, the scout ship in the shuttle's bay is still pristine white, and I'm thinking the dark plastic of the shuttle's bay and black bay doors actually UV shielded it.  Both vehicles were stored in a big cardboard box in the garage, and being in central California, they baked in the summer, so the heat is probably a factor, but the fact that the scout ship is still bright white makes me think the UV is a bigger problem, and storing things in dark plastic containers may be a nice way to shield them.

 

[Ignacio Ocamica]

My only TV Yamato CF has yellowed. My two VF-1J Hikaru, VF-1A  Max and VF-1A Kakizaki are still white though. I'll have to accept this stained  TV CF. This is why I still prefer Yamato off white.

[armentage]

What kills me is all of the modern pieces that are covered in tampo art.  I could totally see myself (gently) bleaching the white back into the yellowed parts on most of the holder Yamato or early Bandai toys.   The modern toys from Bandai in particular are a different story!  I'm sure the hydrogen peroxide mixtures people use would completely remove the tampo artwork along with the yellow.

Perhaps there will be a nice secondary market in replacement decals to restore the detail lost during a deyellowing session.

 

[big F]

Shame that Kawamori San didn't make them yellow to start with then the problem wouldn't be one.

[spacemanoeuvres]

I always figured once my white figs started to yellow that I would have a go at weathering/painting them. Hopefully won't happen for a few more years as I don't have that kind of time at the moment haha

[armentage]

So I recently came across this post and I'm really interested in trying it out....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=899984

Basically, this guy is using hydrogen peroxide hair developer creme instead of the usual home brew hydrogen peroxide & oxy clean solution.  The creme is nice and thick, sticking to the plastic instead of running off of it.  Doesn't seem to damage color either!

I'm going to try some of this on the awful VF-25, and perhaps a little patch on my Gakken Mospeada.

 

[Valkyrie Driver]

Now, I want to pull my VF-25F v1 out and see if it has yellowed. I keep my blinds drawn so there is no direct sunlight on any of my valks... My v1 hasn't been on display for a while...

[Sanity is Optional]

Anyone know a method that will remove sunburn from clear parts? The above methods are just a surface treatment, as I understand it.

[VF-18S Hornet]

I made the mistake of placing my Yamato DYRL SDF-1 on the top of my two shelf book case in front of the window were it remained in storm attacker mode for years until early 2017 is when I noticed the grey parts of the Main Gun, the back Bridge shoulder and arm parts as well sections of the ARMD carriers turn brown. It looks like it got a tan line cause that stupid western setting sun always hits my window. I had another night stand but it was being used by a roommate that lived with temporally and got stuck in the basement for awhile. after discovering this I brought it back up and placed the ship on it.

[magicsp00n]

I've been dealing with plastic yellowing as well, and had some success in reversing it.
A while back I discovered that, unbeknownst to me, while I was away at work my wife had been opening the blinds and letting direct sunlight on to my display cases. She said she felt they "needed more light". I didn't discover it until it was too late and my 1/55 VF-1S, Beagle Ride Armors, and others had already gone yellow. We've since put UV film on the windows and we keep the blinds closed.

After checking out article on Retr0bright and related approaches, here's what I have used. I'm not a chemist so I can't answer how or why it works but it does.
I had before / after comparison photos but I can't find them now. I'll see if I can dig them up.

* Reptile UVB light bulb in a gooseneck lamp - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A8RHTYU/
* OxiClean powder - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QKIHOY6  (I've tried generic store brand and it didn't seem to work as well, for whatever reason.)
* 3% hydrogen peroxide liquid, what you can get at any pharmacy or grocery store. I get mine from Target.

I dissolve a few pinches of the OxiClean into a bowlful of the hydrogen peroxide, put the yellowed parts into the solution, and put it under the UV lamp. Fairly quickly - a day or two - the yellow is eliminated or significantly reduced, in most cases to where I can't tell there was any yellowing without a close direct comparison to a non-yellowed part. It's cheap, fast, and easy.

Some notes!
* Hey, don't look at the light. I cover it all up with tinfoil.
* DO NOT put metal pieces into the solution. They will rust in a matter of hours.
* The mixture will bubble and foam up a bit. Leave room in your container to avoid spilling over.
* I used to fuss about trying to get the yellowed side of the plastic to face up toward the light in the solution until I realized it's not necessary. The light causes a reaction in the hydrogen peroxide, the hydrogen peroxide affects the plastic.
* It has not adversely affected any tampo paint. I'm sure you wouldn't want to put stickers into the mix, though.
* After awhile the hydrogen peroxide becomes just water, so you may need to mix up a new batch, depending on how long you're soaking the parts.

[no3Ljm]

I'll just leave this one here regarding the usage of Hydrogen Peroxide to our collectibles from previous threads.

 

[Valkyrie Driver]

Does anyone have a timeframe for when yellowing starts to occur? Tips for prevention?

[SpaceCowboy]

Timely, as I've just started de-yellowing an old Transformers G1 Jetfire.

I've been using hydrogen-peroxide 3% + oxi-clean powder.  The internet is all over the place on different things to try.  Things to note:

* You need UV to activate it, so leave it outside.

* glass blocks UV...:\ (I've been using a freezer bag)

* Anything higher than 6% hydrogen peroxide you should use gloves with.

* the paint on my jetfire's chest plate has completely washed off, even in 3%, but perhaps this is a function of the oxi-clean instead. :\

* Supposedly, you need to disassemble as this can cause the metal screws to corrode.

It is working, but slowly.  My main problem has been finding anything close to "do exactly this and it will work".  Some say it needs to be submerged, others say the peroxide evaporating will whiten unsubmerged parts.  I've heard anywhere from 1/2 tsp to 1 tablespoon of oxiclean per bottle, or per 50ml (9 per normal sized bottle).  If anyone has any more detailed instructions, I'm all ears.

I've left it out for about 1 1/2 weeks so far, and it has gone from a yellow to a creme off white.  Still leaving it out there to see if I can get to bone white, as I'm pretty much committed to repainting the other parts anyways at this point.

[SpaceCowboy]

Results of my whitening experiment.  What I discovered:

Parts need to be mostly submerged despite what I've read elsewhere. I used 3% H2O2 solution and that took about a month in Texas October.  I added OxiClean powder, but in the end, it felt like just having enough H2O2 (32 oz) was more important than that.  I couldn't ever tell the Oxiclean was doing anything.  The last two weeks I barely had any mixed in.

Here are some pictures from ebay of the G1 Jetfire I bought (I was too dumb/impatient to remember to take my own pictures, so these will have to do to show the degree of yellowing)

Note the under side of the wing compared to the upper leg.

Here the difference between the back fins and the body is pretty noticeable.

Guy only had one blurry shot in robot mode...

Something, I'm not sure if it was the H2O2 or the Oxiclean ate away 99% of the paint on the chest plate, and faded it on the wings and fins.  It also destroyed the stickers.  So you probably want to remove those first.  Also, I didn't pop the black plastic pieces off the upper thigh as I let it soak.  I had heard the process wouldn't damage colored plastic, but after a month, the black portion of the thighs had become a whitish grey. 

As this was an experiment, and considering all the above unforseen consequences, I decided to do my first custom.  I strongly recommend Tamiya masking tape.  I've tried regular masking tape and I never got sharp lines.  With the Tamiya, that wasn't a problem.  I also designed and 3D printed a replacement gun, since he didn't come with one.  If you have a 3D printer, you can find the STL here: 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2551529

It's a bit thinner than the real one, but I think it looks a bit sleeker, so I've decided to leave it.

Without further ado, here are the results post whitening, post paint, post gun print:

A more dynamic pose:

S

And Jet mode side, (I painted the inside cockpit as well)

And front

I definitely made some mistakes with the paint, but this is the best I've done customizing a toy.  I'm really happy with the Tamiya.  H2O2 at 3% took a long time to whiten, but it was worth it.  It took about 1 hour to take apart and probably 2-3 hours to put back together, mainly because I didn't take any pictures disassembling it, and laid out the screws roughly where they should go in robot mode, so there was some trial and error to figure out where things went as I put it back.

Overall I'm happy with the results.  We'll see how long it stays white.  I've heard that it "returns faster", but I don't believe that.  I think it will continue to brown at the same rate that the plastic generally does.  We'll see.

 

[linitrofe]

It looks awesome! It's an incredible change

[SpaceCowboy]

So, are there any good techniques for protecting the existing paint when doing this?  If I covered the painted sections with masking tape would that protect the paint, or would after a month in H2O2, the peroxide end up just filtering under the tape and eating away the paint anyways?

I sort of want to whiten another one, but I want to preserve the original paint colors.

[ArchieNov]

Darn, just took mine out of storage and it's started to yellow too. It's a double shame since the joints on it were still pretty tight after all this time 

I guess I could always cover it up with all the Armor Parts.

Edit: Meh, looks like my Fokker YF-29 is showing signs as well.

I checked the rest of my white valks in storage (VF-171EX Murayama, RVF-171EX Luca, and YF-25) and they still seem okay. The white valks I've had on display also seem to be doing just fine. 

I wonder if keeping it in the box hastens the yellowing process.

Edited December 15, 2017 by ArchieNov

[SpaceCowboy]

My understanding is it just depends on how they mix the plastic with bromine (commonly used as a flame retardant), and then the bromine reacts with oxygen and light to surface on the plastic.  So if the bromine mixture was lower, the plastic won't yellow/will yellow much slower.

Edited December 15, 2017 by SpaceCowboy