The Megaroad Class

[Boxer]

That and the fact that it looks as if the entire nose section of the SDF-2 was not completed. So they simply finished the 'city frame' and started work on city construction. I can imagine the city was still under construction during takeoff.

So is the Aglanix a cannon cruiser cira 2012? Or was it designed during DYRL?

[Uxi]

The Megaroad is at least 6 km long. That makes those "ARMDs" too big to be accutal ARMDs.

What's your source? There's no need for it to be that big and what sources we have (the Compendium) indiciate it's much smaller.

[Nightbat]

It seems to me that the city's "Dome" is a very simple construction to add on to a 1620m long SDF-2 frame

and from the picture it appears to be 2/3 of its entire length

which could make the Megaroad's final length almost 5000 meters

But if the Zentradi ship behind it is Britai's 4000m long Nupetiet Vergnitz

Than the M1 (even though you can't be sure because of the perspective) looks 3/4 of it's length being around 3000m long at most

[macplus]

Help please!!! Does anybody has a big scan of the Megaroad from this picture?? or at least a clean picture of it! even lineart! TIA!

[nathan]

Actually, the New Macross-class city vessel was bigger, wasn't it?

The city section is probably bigger but the ship is more than just a city section, engines and a bridge.

Also, lots and lots of Zentradi labor were likely put into finishing it. So it could be possible, once you excise the beauracratic roadblocks and budget issues we have today.

True but where do you house all those Zentraedi? How do you train them all and have them work without getting in each others way? Even qualified humans would have a hard time with all of that.

That and the fact that it looks as if the entire nose section of the SDF-2 was not completed. So they simply finished the 'city frame' and started work on city construction. I can imagine the city was still under construction during takeoff.

It was more than just add a simple frame but that is kind of the idea. And the city was fully finished when the ship was launched.

What's your source? There's no need for it to be that big and what sources we have (the Compendium) indiciate it's much smaller. [/quote

The animation and line art. The animation and line art show that it's bigger than Britia's flagship which is 4000m. And if you look at the Megaroad as it's behind the SDF-1 you can see it's easily 6 times wider than the SDF-1 and at least as tall as the SDF-1 is long. It's length is easily going to be just increased. That's a big ship!!! Even the side sections at the end of the "wings", the "ARMDs", are easily twice that of the SDF-1. You can also see the only part of the SDF-2 left was the Bridge section which is above the rest of the ship on pillars.

]

[Lestat]

Ok, to answer some questions. The footage from Flashback is inconsistant. In some frames, the Neo-Nupetiet-Vergnitzs Bis is shown in front and in some frames behind the Megaroad.

The main reason for me to say it's that large, is firstly, that it is drawn in the schematics next to the bis. I would assume it was to scale, it would make sense. Secondly, this image:

Shows a massive city. Those lines are either highways or monorails of some kind. Those aren't really skyscrapers, they are more like arcologies! This ship is massive. It WAS constructed on the moon, and probably flown to earth for the ceremony. On earth it is in a dry berth, not water, though I imagine it's quite capable of floating.

The top ships on the back probably fill the daedelus role of the ship. I'd imagine they all can detatch. The schematics show pretty well the engine block for the neo daedelus craft and the twin engines of the ARMD craft. Yes it's a large ARMD craft, but you're forgetting some things.

There is 80,000 civilians onboard in teh city, however, that's just as of 2012. With the breeding practices after SWI (Basically, citizens are encouraged to breed like rabbits), expansion would be expected to occur expedentially. The city is much larger than need be. It is also large enough to possibly house some full size zjentohlauedy.

The ARMDs not only need to carry mecha, which includes only several hundred VF4s, but probably twice as many VF-1s, and auxillery craft - SFs, QFs, shuttles, etc.

It IS an ARMD. It is shown to be that way in Macross M3.

Edited January 16, 2004 by Lestat

[Boxer]

'Shown to be that way?' Can you elaborate? And does this mean those super ARMDs were around during that time (Or before?)

And thanks for that huge pic, it indeed answers some questions.

[macplus]

Thank's for the pic Lestat! also the Megaroad looks similar to one of those cementery ships from Macross 7 Trash... any hints?

Later, and by the way, if somebody has more pics of the megaroad please post them! me wants, me wants!!!

[nathan]

They look more like freeways to me tho it could probably have monorails.

Those also look like skyscrapers to me.

This should give you an idea of how massive it really is.

Edited January 17, 2004 by nathan

[nathan]

There's also this pic with it in formation with Britia's ship.

And if you compare the line art of the "ARMD" to the animation, the "ARMDs" are easily as big as the SDF-1.

You can also see how the bridge is lifted away from the ship. You can also see the size of the building inside the ship.

Edited January 17, 2004 by nathan

[Zero Enna]

ARMD-Class (SCV) Space Aircraft Carrier

Look the ship list! It says about an ARMD attached with SDF-2 Megaroad.

[Anubis]

ARMD F-09 Minsk

ARMD F-10 Haruna

attached to the SDF-2

Improved Fold System capable ARMD carriers. Nice catch.

94 Regults???

Edited January 17, 2004 by Anubis

[Druna Skass]

How come the Megaroad's bridge is attached to that "arch" instead of being directly attached to the ship like the Macross's bridge is?

[Anubis]

Who knows. Styling perhaps.

Maybe a better viewing angle to see the rest of the ship?

I'd say aesthetic stying.

[Jester]

I wouldn't take that ARMD Data as gospel chaps. As its not found anywhere but Nanashi's.

With regards to the Guanatanamo Class Stealth Carriers they are supposedly being replaced by the URaga Class Stealth Carriers by the time of M7. But both Guantanamo and Uraga Class Carriers can be seen out of the window and through the floor in Mac Plus Episode 1. (Also orbiting Earth in 3 & 4.) If Guantanamo's are being phased out by 2040 they have got to have been around a while, probably 20 years byt he way that most Navies today work. So they are mostly likely from a few years after Flashback 2012. Probably close to the end of the 2010's. Same theory seems to hold for the Bolognese Frigates. Although they aren't being replaced.

[ewilen]

I wouldn't take that ARMD Data as gospel chaps. As its not found anywhere but Nanashi's.

I don't think Nanashi makes anything up. He and his collaborators get everything from existing official publications--although it's possible some of it is "noncanonical" even though it's official.

[Jester]

LMFAOROFL !!!!!!!

He and his collaborators get everything from existing official publications

Yes of course they do. And I suppose you still believe in the tooth fairy ????

'Full of Wind' Jammer is renowned for..................... bending the facts. A lot of his stuff is most certainly not relying on official sources. If it was Im sure he would be more than happy to provide the proof here, and pass it on to Egan Loo who has access to THE official source itself.

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_...armd/index.html

[Boxer]

I think the bridge is seperated from the rest of the ship because the neck connections weren't finished. Either that or the three radio arrays on the left side of the head wouldn't allow solid contact to the hull...

So, does Nanashi happen to have any information reguarding the mysterious ARMDs?

[ewilen]

LMFAOROFL !!!!!!!

He and his collaborators get everything from existing official publications

Yes of course they do. And I suppose you still believe in the tooth fairy ????

'Full of Wind' Jammer is renowned for..................... bending the facts. A lot of his stuff is most certainly not relying on official sources. If it was Im sure he would be more than happy to provide the proof here, and pass it on to Egan Loo who has access to THE official source itself.

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_...armd/index.html

As I wrote, not everything which is "official" is "canonical". I'm sure you can trust Egan Loo's site to have accurate canonical information, but not everything in Macross is catalogued there. (E.g., the VF-1SOL we discussed a few weeks ago, which appeared in a Macross video game but is almost certainly non-canonical, isn't found at Egan's site.)

I'll shoot Nanashi a PM and see if he can tell where he got the information.

[Jester]

I think that everyone is getting hung up on the general outline, and red out-lined landing point markings. Yes they do look like an ARMD platform, but close observation shows that those sections are in fact firmly attached to the Megaroad. I think that they are engine pods that just happen to have been influenced in design by the ARMD.

[nathan]

I don't think Nanashi makes anything up. He and his collaborators get everything from existing official publications--although it's possible some of it is "noncanonical" even though it's official.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When he posted a thread about his ARMD info I got him to admit he makes things up as well as takes statements about what people who worked on macross thought things should do. Made up fiction of his own or someone elses is fiction and is not cannon. After I called him on it he said he'd list his sources. He still hasn't done it yet! Unless you can verify the info frm someone else don't believe a word of it. Since he doesn't list his "sources" you'll have a hard time doing that! So just don't trust anything he says.

Like Jester says and I have said they just look like ARMDs. They're way to be to be the real thing and they're permanetly attached to the ship.

[Boxer]

Even if they are perminently attatched to the ship are they still a ship design? Or perhaps part of a failed ARMD design that never saw any kind of service except attatched to the Megaroads?

[nathan]

Not likely as later models were only 400m.

I do think there was a small class or two of ARMDs between original ARMD and the Guantánamo. The DYRL? SDF-1 has two different ARMDs and niether of them are the same as the TV design. There's also a fourth design which I believe is a preproduction version of the left movie ARMD.

Edited January 21, 2004 by nathan

[Druna Skass]

I wonder, could those just be hanger bays designed to look like ARMDs to give it kind of a Macross feel. Since the original was built out of a hull copied from the Macross.

Do all Megaroads look like that or are they each a little unique in each way?

[Boxer]

Why would a ship designer go out of his way to make a carrier end 'look' like an ARMD?

It would be pretty cool if no two ARMDs are alike, and from what I gathered that might be the case. After all, aren't ARMD01 and 02 different in the movie?

But if these designs are smaller ARMDs then maybe they're a new kind of support/fleet carrier based off the ARMD?

Or maybe an ARMD prototype...

[nathan]

I wonder, could those just be hanger bays designed to look like ARMDs to give it kind of a Macross feel. Since the original was built out of a hull copied from the Macross.

Yep.

Do all Megaroads look like that or are they each a little unique in each way?

I'd say they'd vary a bit but not too much and mostly the city section.

Why would a ship designer go out of his way to make a carrier end 'look' like an ARMD?

Because it worked out well on the SDF-1 as having the troops in the side sections gave more room for the civilians. It also gives the megaroad the feel of the SDF-1 and probably makes the civilians feel more comfortable.

It would be pretty cool if no two ARMDs are alike, and from what I gathered that might be the case. After all, aren't ARMD01 and 02 different in the movie?

They're all probably slightly different do to changes in technology. Yes the movie ARMDs are different. I said that.

But if these designs are smaller ARMDs then maybe they're a new kind of support/fleet carrier based off the ARMD?

Or maybe an ARMD prototype...

They're used in M7 and are being fased out.

[Jester]

The original TV series ARMD's design were ignored after DYRL in favour of the DYRL design, (like many things.) However both the TV and DYRL designs follow a similar design but with minor differences. My theory is that the sections on the sides of the Megaroad are just firmly attached to the Megaroad but internally are designed like the ARMD's as a Nathan said, to be the military portion. Obviously their exterior view would also look similar in design to the original ARMD's.

With regards to the later ARMD's after DYRL, the model is the Guantanamo Class Stealth Carrier, which in the 2040's is being phased out by the Uraga Class Stealth Carrier, which looks more like a conventional carrier. If you look beneath Isamu's feet, and out the window, onboard the carrier at the start of episode 1 of Macross Plus you will see both Guantanamo, and Uraga, class carriers.

[nathan]

To ignore some TV designs but not all of them makes no sense at all. If the TV ARMDs don't exist then neither should any of the other designs from the TV series. The "all" of VF-1 designs are not only still official but by the movie they're officially upgraded to the VF-1X. The SDF-1 is official remodeled after the war. The uniforms change with the times. Yet for the ARMD the design is just written off??? Having the movie designs as a separate class built after the series would bridge the gap between the TV ARMD and the Guantanamo version. Not only that but the last time I looked the compendium lists stats on the TV ARMD not the two separate movie versions. How can the official source list stats for a ship that no longer exists???

[Boxer]

I think it's assumed that the Movie ARMDs were later upgrades of the TV ARMDS. Either that or all the TV ARMDS were phased out after the entire first production run was annialated at the end of Space War One. The excuse is probably the assimilation and reverse-development of Zjentohaluedy technology.

...But I wonder what the excuse for the different DYRL? ARMDs are.

I was writing a fanfiction that re-told the Macross series (Still in progress if I ever get it done..) And I had the ARMDs 'Deadalus' and 'Prometheius' (Go figure) For the arms. The Deadalus, of corse, was different because it was modified for heavy endurance. Do you think this is the case?

[Nied]

Well the apearance of a ship can vary quite a bit within a class. It could just be that one ARMD was built before the other and thus incorperated diferent technologies than the earlier one.

As for the difference between the DYRL and TV ARMDs well, the Macross was refitted with new technology after the war, why not the ARMDs?

I definetly find the idea that the features on the side of the Megaroad are just hangars designed to look like ARMDs patently ridiculous. Never mind the wasted effort for a purely cosmetic featrue on a military vessel, why would a pari of ARMD looking features on the Megaroad remind people of the Macross if up until a few months ago (from the point of view of Flashback) the Macross had spent most of its service life with a pari of naval vessels attached to it's sides? Wouldn't everyone have fond memories of of the TV series macross rather than the (still incomplete) refited one?

[Lestat]

* No two ARMDs are alike.

* The DYRL ARMDs were designed to be unique, but in the footage, they are both in the style of ARMD-01.

* Chronologically, ARMD-09 and 10 became the new ARMDs attatched to the remodelled SDF-1. Therefore, the DYRL carriers are actually 09 and 10, but renamed to 01 and 02, which were originally meant to join up with the macross.

* Nanashi is very picky about his sources. He's obsessed with accuracy. He spends hundreds of dollars on a professional translator to get his information. He now works for Northrop Grumman shipyards. He knows his crap. I've known him for four years now, and he's very specific about not making stuff up. That's why Studio Kappa doesn't have many designs at the moment. He uses offical and semi-official sources. All must be japanese in origin, but he also uses Chiba's material and the MAT valkyrie manuals.

* The ARMDs on the Megaroad can presumably detatch. VF-4s are shown from a distance exiting the ARMDS on a Megaroad in a cut scene in Macross M3. Actually, I believe it's in the intro.

* Windjammer/nanashi has not released any information the Megaroad. The ARMD entries he has made are by Chiba. That is his source. It is only semi-official, however, chiba, who was a one-time member of Studio Nue is a good enough source for me.

* I'd forgotten about the rising Megaroad. Yes, that shot is what convinced me of it's size. It's massive. My theory is that there are also some full size zjentohlauedy living aboard.

[1st Border Red Devil]

* No two ARMDs are alike.

You gotta be shitting me! NO two ARMDs are alike? What happens if one of them get fragged? They wouldnt be able to fix one with parts or armor plate that they had extra unless they had produced if for THAT particular vessel. If the stockpiles of spare parts goes up and the ship gets damaged its an expensive paper weight.

[Prime]

* No two ARMDs are alike.

How did they all differ?

[ewilen]

The ARMD entries he has made are by Chiba. That is his source. It is only semi-official, however, chiba, who was a one-time member of Studio Nue is a good enough source for me.

That's what I figured after looking at the bottom of the page.

Write-up, data and schematic by MAT (Masahiro Chiba, et.al.)

Now hopefully we can get past the fanboy feuds. (If it will help, I will admit that "official" isn't the same as "semi-official". Chiba co-authored the Macross timeline with Kawamori and also did the mechanical specifications for M7 with Kawamori, in addition to producing the MAT doujinshi.)

However, note that you contradict WJ's page. He has ARMD-09 and 10 as

F-09  06/2007  08/2011  Minsk  Attached ship of SDF-2 Megaroad (improved type)

F-10  06/2007  08/2011  Haruna  Same as above

You have 09 and 10 as attached to the post-reconstruction SDF-1.

Also,

* The ARMDs on the Megaroad can presumably detatch. VF-4s are shown from a distance exiting the ARMDS on a Megaroad in a cut scene in Macross M3. Actually, I believe it's in the intro.

I don't see how the fact that the VF-4's use the notional ARMDs as bases supports the idea that they can detach. Can you elaborate? Is there anything else from the game that would support the idea?

Basically, you seem to be saying that the structures we're talking about are ARMDs and that the Megaroad is 5+ km long...which would mean that the structures are much larger than the stats given for ARMDs.

I'm beginning to suspect that Kawamori et. al. didn't really think this through. They wanted something that was visually reminiscent of the Macross, but they also wanted to convey a sense of bigger-than-SDF-1 massiveness without being too specific about the size. And that's about where their thinking stopped, leaving Chiba and everyone else to try to fill in the details.

BTW, even the SDF-1's official size is hard to reconcile with the fact that it is supposed to hold 58,000 civilians, with cars and amphitheaters and such, especially considering that only part of the ship was devoted to habitation. In short, we may be in anime-magic territory here.

[nathan]

Well the apearance of a ship can vary quite a bit within a class. It could just be that one ARMD was built before the other and thus incorperated diferent technologies than the earlier one.

That's true. Structually there was little diverent about the TV versions. Internally it's another matter. The newer ships are going to have newer equipment. The movie designs are vastly different however. Theyre opposite in construction. Bridges are on different sides. The engine section differ as well as the weaponry.

As for the difference between the DYRL and TV ARMDs well, the Macross was refitted with new technology after the war, why not the ARMDs?

That's what I think. They give a reason why everything else has changed except for the ARMDS.

I definetly find the idea that the features on the side of the Megaroad are just hangars designed to look like ARMDs patently ridiculous. Never mind the wasted effort for a purely cosmetic featrue on a military vessel, why would a pari of ARMD looking features on the Megaroad remind people of the Macross if up until a few months ago (from the point of view of Flashback) the Macross had spent most of its service life with a pari of naval vessels attached to it's sides? Wouldn't everyone have fond memories of of the TV series macross rather than the (still incomplete) refited one?

At a quick glace the megaroad does have a resemblance to the SDF-1. The SDF-1 was also the demonstration model for having cities inside ships and the troops out to the sides. And the Megaroad is a massively scaled up version of that. So physically and functionally they do resemble the ARMDs. They're not separate ships however.

* No two ARMDs are alike.

That's true.

* The DYRL ARMDs were designed to be unique, but in the footage, they are both in the style of ARMD-01.

While they do have a resemblace to the older ARMDs then movie designs are vastly different. Not only to the old designs but to each other.

* Nanashi is very picky about his sources. He's obsessed with accuracy. He spends hundreds of dollars on a professional translator to get his information. He now works for Northrop Grumman shipyards. He knows his crap. I've known him for four years now, and he's very specific about not making stuff up. That's why Studio Kappa doesn't have many designs at the moment. He uses offical and semi-official sources. All must be japanese in origin, but he also uses Chiba's material and the MAT valkyrie manuals.

That's funny. He's admited to making things up to me. And what Chiba and MAT and other former emplyees think should be in Macross or how they envisioned things taking place and functioning are not official or even semi official sources. Also if he wasn't fictonalizing things and using unoficial sources he wouldn't have a problem listing his sources. He doesn't do that however. As he's presenting fiction as fact. If he listed his source material I wouldn't have a problem with it, as long as he made a distinction about wether it was official, unofficial, or a mixture of both. He presents he fiction as fact however which blows any creadablity with me.

A couple years ago another member also provided transaltion about the earth trekkers and other prototype destroids. Not only did he provide the translation but the name of his translator and the source material that was translated. I'm pretty sure he even had the page numbers! That is how it should be done and something that windjammer still refuses to do.

* The ARMDs on the Megaroad can presumably detatch. VF-4s are shown from a distance exiting the ARMDS on a Megaroad in a cut scene in Macross M3. Actually, I believe it's in the intro.

I doubt that and thier use as the Megaroads troop bases has already been established.

* Windjammer/nanashi has not released any information the Megaroad. The ARMD entries he has made are by Chiba. That is his source. It is only semi-official, however, chiba, who was a one-time member of Studio Nue is a good enough source for me.

Semi-offical is not offical. Again former employees and even current employees don't deside what official is. The creator does. If Kawamoris says its official or authorises something then it's official. Yes he worked on Macross but the only things he can rightly confirm are what has been officially released. Anything else is just his oppinion. Just because a janitor works for studio nue and says that max is bisexual and Milia is pregnant with hikaru's baby, and Misa is actually doing global does not make it official.

* I'd forgotten about the rising Megaroad. Yes, that shot is what convinced me of it's size. It's massive. My theory is that there are also some full size zjentohlauedy living aboard.

That could be but I don't think there are that many.

Edited January 29, 2004 by nathan