Star Wars Episode IX, The Rise of Skywalker, available on home video

[Keith]

I've said from day 1, REY IS AN ANAKIN CLONE!

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

I would actually say SW fans knew what they wanted. After RoTJ, there was an entire Expanded Universe that carried the characters along believable arcs with compelling stories and villainous villains.

... we must have read two very different Star Wars expanded universes, because my first blush reaction to that was "very funny sir, now tell the one about the airline food".

The old Star Wars EU was so divisive that there was no way that would please the fans any more than what they actually got, and it certainly wouldn't have pleased general audiences... except maybe the Thrawn trilogy.

 

Quote

So instead of Han and Leia struggling but surviving in their marriage and having several children and vaunted careers, Han is still just a smuggler who has had no growth and is still struggling to make do, and estranged from Leia who is now just a commander of a fringe force.

They were two people from radically different walks of life.  IMO the new trilogy version is a lot more believable an outcome for the two.  Han was always a bit of a coward and after a life of crime followed by a brief paramilitary career he definitely wasn't the kind of guy who could adapt to being chained down as a politician's house-husband.  For her part, it never made sense that Leia would end up in power when she's politically tainted by her association with Darth Vader.

 

Quote

Rather than an Imperial Remnant and a resurgent Sith, we get the oddly named First Order and the Knights of Ren who [...]

"... are literally the same damn thing but with slightly non-indicative names".

 

Quote

And instead of Luke struggling to rebuild the Jedi, while winning and then losing Mara, he's turned into a curmudgeon who [...]

"... does the exact same thing the previous generation of Jedi Masters did when they screwed up royally and ended up handing the dark side-users near-total power over the galaxy.  F*cked off to a remote planet and lived as a hermet with every expectation that he'd never be called back into service."

 

Quote

And envelopes were pushed when Mara was killed by her nephew, Han and Leia's son, and when Chewie died...

Yet they're oddly similar, aren't they?  Jacen is pretty much a proto-Kylo Ren.  He even showed up to Mara's funeral cosplaying as Darth Vader.  

This is kinda my point.  What we're getting is so very similar to the old EU stuff they threw out, yet nobody's happy with it... so it's unlikely they'd have been happy with adaptations of the old EU stuff either.

[Mog]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

I would actually say SW fans knew what they wanted. After RoTJ, there was an entire Expanded Universe that carried the characters along believable arcs with compelling stories and villainous villains. But then it was thrown out, and everything the fans thought they knew that happened after RoTJ went with it. So instead of Han and Leia struggling but surviving in their marriage and having several children and vaunted careers, Han is still just a smuggler who has had no growth and is still struggling to make do, and estranged from Leia who is now just a commander of a fringe force. Rather than an Imperial Remnant and a resurgent Sith, we get the oddly named First Order and the Knights of Ren who have no backstory other than a title and a nightmare scene only a few seconds long, and Snoke who has no history at all when compared to Palpatine.  And instead of Luke struggling to rebuild the Jedi, while winning and then losing Mara, he's turned into a curmudgeon who is so frozen with fear that he won't do anything when his friends and family are threatened. This is the guy who faced the evil Emperor and saved his father's immortal soul, but instead he's just turned in an old fart spending his days wandering an island and drinking blue titty-milk...

And envelopes were pushed when Mara was killed by her nephew, Han and Leia's son, and when Chewie died...

This was the fear when they threw out the EU. I remember remarking when the decision was made, as to why they wouldn't use it? The plans and back stories were there to be cherry-picked and thrown up onto the big screen in a grand cavalcade of sagas, events supported by and fondly looked upon by the fans - but instead... ugh...

Yup  

Just three things:

1). It’s frustrating to see how the OT three were treated in these past two films, especially considering how much of a better and richer life they experienced in the EU.

2). Considering how much older the actors are now, I do understand why Disney couldn’t do a straight EU adaptation.  Too much backstory to fill in, especially at the actors’ current ages.

3).  Disney should have looked to Dave Filoni’s work on Rebels to see how to introduce new characters but stay true to the “feel” of Star Wars.  I was annoyed at first with Ezra and his silly little energy slingshot and Kanan and his soul-patch beard.  But after 4 seasons, those characters grew on me and became worthy heroes.

Hell, Rebels even brought Thrawn from the EU, change his story a bit, but managed to keep what was so damn appealing about his original incarnation.

The new films could have taken a similar approach, but they (mostly TLJ) failed the original characters and the new ones too.

[seti88]

On 4/13/2019 at 3:11 AM, no3Ljm said:

Now to forget, Leia too. Killing two cast with one movie. You know... killing two birds with one stone kind of thing. 

I told you that's no Palpatine. It was Mark Hamill doing an older Joker from BTAS.  

 

Congratulations noel.

 

[505thAirborne]

I enjoyed Jeremy's take on this. 

[Bolt]

Entertaining take on things for sure. 

Palpatine being a force ghost or part of some previous backstory ( before he was f**king vaporized) would be acceptable, but to bring him back, like he never died..?

would be lame 0’

Also, I think it more likely he would appear  as a force ghost to Rey. He just loved to manipulate would be Jedi..

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Bolt

[sketchley]

On 4/13/2019 at 1:34 PM, TehPW said:

and then you get this...

 

Thank you for the link.  The only thing I think the reviewer got wrong was about Solo: it was in development (in the sense of a script being worked on) before Disney bought Lucasfilm.

Based on the situation JJ Abrams described when he took over the hot seat for SW, I get the impression that he handles high pressure, high stress situations well—given his the lack of grey hair on JJ Abrams.

[Chronocidal]

Right now, I'm mostly wondering which death star that's the wreckage of.  It makes literally no sense for any of the first one to have hit the moon, because they were orbiting a gas giant that I'm pretty sure would have laid claim to any debris fairly quickly.

The alternative means they're going back to Endor though.  How many more stops are we making on this nostalgia trip again?  

[sketchley]

37 minutes ago, Bolt said:

(...)

Palpatine being a force ghost or part of some previous backstory ( before he was f**king vaporized) would be acceptable, but to bring him back, like he never died..?

(...)

 

Wasn't he cloned by the Empire remnants in one of the EU stories?

... which begs the question: can Force Ghosts possess people?  (Which probably doesn't need to be answered, as Disney has already introduced "Decraniated" characters in RO and Solo...)

[Bolt]

15 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

The alternative means they're going back to Endor though.  How many more stops are we making on this nostalgia trip again?  

Too many...And every time the death star blows up its like vaporized, but wait, here’s a 1/4 of it sitting here..

It makes for a cool image . But also just reminds me of the star destroyer carcass from TFA  

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Bolt

[Bolt]

3 minutes ago, sketchley said:

Wasn't he cloned by the Empire remnants in one of the EU stories?

Ya. There was a back up clone , I forgot which stronghold it was chillin..( just in case Vader decided to toss him over the rail)

[Chronocidal]

I want to guess on Byss, since that name popped up a bunch, and I think it was where the Empire hid its comic-continuity super weapons.

[kajnrig]

7 hours ago, sketchley said:

Wasn't he cloned by the Empire remnants in one of the EU stories?

... which begs the question: can Force Ghosts possess people?

No, there's just tons of Palpy force ghosts running around the EU pranking each other by impersonating each other.

[Bolt]

8 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I want to guess on Byss, since that name popped up a bunch, and I think it was where the Empire hid its comic-continuity super weapons.

Bingo! 

[jvmacross]

9 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

How many more stops are we making on this nostalgia trip again?  

Enough to forget TLJ? 

Edited April 14, 2019 by jvmacross

[renegadeleader1]

9 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Right now, I'm mostly wondering which death star that's the wreckage of.  It makes literally no sense for any of the first one to have hit the moon, because they were orbiting a gas giant that I'm pretty sure would have laid claim to any debris fairly quickly.

The alternative means they're going back to Endor though.  How many more stops are we making on this nostalgia trip again?  

Not Endor. The planet that Endor orbits. People tend to forget Endor itself is a moon. It's also apparently a gas giant, but it didn't look that way in RoTJ.

Edited April 14, 2019 by renegadeleader1

[Dynaman]

It makes as much sense to hit the moon as the main planet, in either case it doesn't make much sense at all but I digress, the velocity from the explosion would be very high and so parts of it could end up anywhere.  Those parts should be microscopic but...

[M'Kyuun]

My comment goes back to the Fast interview with J.J. Abrams and the direction of the SW cinematic universe so far as there really is no overarching direction. IMO, EP 7 definitely felt like there was a plan set to span the following two films, which was utterly discarded to allow Rian Johnson to go his own way, to the detriment of the series IMHO. Whether you like Force Awakens or not, I think most can agree that it did a good job of setting up precedents for following chapters.

I think Abrams is a competent director; I know he has his share of detractors, but I like Force Awakens, I liked the questions it posed, I liked the look and feel of it, and I thought he and the writers had a good grip on how to write and portray the characters. I could have lived without Finn, but towards the end of the film he was starting to grow on me. Then Johnson ruined him, and my enthusiasm for the new films, altogether. Anyway, I hope JJ is able to create some semblance of order from the chaos in the short time he has to make the film, and perhaps salvage a thread or two of his original intentions. I really wish Abrams had directed all three for a unified vision and feel, but that's water under the bridge now. I hope Ep 9 turns out ok.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

My comment goes back to the Fast interview with J.J. Abrams and the direction of the SW cinematic universe so far as there really is no overarching direction. IMO, EP 7 definitely felt like there was a plan set to span the following two films, which was utterly discarded to allow Rian Johnson to go his own way, to the detriment of the series IMHO. Whether you like Force Awakens or not, I think most can agree that it did a good job of setting up precedents for following chapters.

...

Abrams expected the next directors to answer his stupid mystery box. He's done the same thing with his shows. "Here's my idea, now you flesh it out." WTF arshole???? Why doesn't he follow it through? He wasn't even planning on coming back to Episode 9 until Episode 8 got flak.

I'm kinda agreeing with the talking head-&-torso video guy. Having Palpatine come back feels like a bad idea. But he came back as a clone in the EU. But he was a clone. I don't remember the story on that but the clone had to be taught that he was a evil prick. The Jedi learned to let go and die, but retain their consciousness. They became immortal. Being a clone means Palpatine couldn't retain his consciousness. But anyways, bringing back Palpatine now just ruins the last 2 movies. Snoak had no reason to be there then. And it cheapens his death in Episode 6.

JJ said there was always plan to bring him back but they couldn’t find a story to do it. BS. If Rian hadn’t killed off Snoak, Palpatine would stay dead. And so, here we are. While we’re at it, let’s bring back Yoda, Luke, and Obi-wan to make sure Palpatine stays dead this time. 

[kalvasflam]

Snoke's death was already cheapened given the way that he was just kind of unceremoniously dumped without any background.  Does anyone even care about his backstory, how the First Order came about, blah blah blah... no, not really, because in the end, this story was just another extension of the Skywalker family melodrama.  Oh god, I think I have sand in my hair.

[ErikElvis]

I’m hopeful for this. I shouldn’t be but I am. 

[TehPW]

3 hours ago, azrael said:

Abrams expected the next directors to answer his stupid mystery box. He's done the same thing with his shows. "Here's my idea, now you flesh it out." WTF arshole???? Why doesn't he follow it through? He wasn't even planning on coming back to Episode 9 until Episode 8 got flak.

I'm kinda agreeing with the talking head-&-torso video guy. Having Palpatine come back feels like a bad idea. But he came back as a clone in the EU. But he was a clone. I don't remember the story on that but the clone had to be taught that he was a evil prick. The Jedi learned to let go and die, but retain their consciousness. They became immortal. Being a clone means Palpatine couldn't retain his consciousness. But anyways, bringing back Palpatine now just ruins the last 2 movies. Snoak had no reason to be there then. And it cheapens his death in Episode 6.

JJ said there was always plan to bring him back but they couldn’t find a story to do it. BS. If Rian hadn’t killed off Snoak, Palpatine would stay dead. And so, here we are. While we’re at it, let’s bring back Yoda, Luke, and Obi-wan to make sure Palpatine stays dead this time. 

Did he get his effort's worth in merchandising (the main reason he jumped ship from Star Trek, once he realized Paramount lied to him)? 

[Chronocidal]

3 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Did he get his effort's worth in merchandising (the main reason he jumped ship from Star Trek, once he realized Paramount lied to him)? 

Considering how terrible a good chunk of TFA and TLJ merchandise has been?  I wouldn't bet on it.

[renegadeleader1]

3 hours ago, azrael said:

Abrams expected the next directors to answer his stupid mystery box. He's done the same thing with his shows. "Here's my idea, now you flesh it out." WTF arshole???? Why doesn't he follow it through? He wasn't even planning on coming back to Episode 9 until Episode 8 got flak.

I'm kinda agreeing with the talking head-&-torso video guy. Having Palpatine come back feels like a bad idea. But he came back as a clone in the EU. But he was a clone. I don't remember the story on that but the clone had to be taught that he was a evil prick. The Jedi learned to let go and die, but retain their consciousness. They became immortal. Being a clone means Palpatine couldn't retain his consciousness. But anyways, bringing back Palpatine now just ruins the last 2 movies. Snoak had no reason to be there then. And it cheapens his death in Episode 6.

JJ said there was always plan to bring him back but they couldn’t find a story to do it. BS. If Rian hadn’t killed off Snoak, Palpatine would stay dead. And so, here we are. While we’re at it, let’s bring back Yoda, Luke, and Obi-wan to make sure Palpatine stays dead this time. 

Incorrect. In Dark Empire the clone bodies were just empty shells that his spirit inhabited after his death aboard the second death star. He used the dark side to force his conciousness onto and possess new bodies everytime he died.

[Bolt]

But was ultimately blocked and defeated by Jedi Empatojayos Brand..

3 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

Snoke's death was already cheapened given the way that he was just kind of unceremoniously dumped without any background.  Does anyone even care about his backstory, how the First Order came about, blah blah blah... no, not really, because in the end, this story was just another extension of the Skywalker family melodrama.  Oh god, I think I have sand in my hair.

I’m sure it was a good way to sell comics..

[azrael]

4 minutes ago, renegadeleader1 said:

Incorrect. In Dark Empire the clone bodies were just empty shells that his spirit inhabited after his death aboard the second death star. He used the dark side to force his conciousness onto and possess new bodies everytime he died.

Well, it doesn’t matter now since they threw that stuff into the non-canon black hole that is now called “Legends”. 

Bringing back Palpatine NOW in the narrative feels like cheap fan-wanking. Having him back in any form other than a Holocron recording just feels 

[Chronocidal]

That's actually been one of my biggest issues with the "new" canon.  If you're going to relegate the EU to some alternate universe, stop dipping into it for ideas.  Come up with an original concept, for crying out loud.  

Edited April 14, 2019 by Chronocidal

[Sildani]

[Dynaman]

Yeah Sildani there is a large grain of truth to that.  The flip side is none of the new stuff has measured up to the first two films but I'm also not 11 anymore either.

An exception can be made for Rogue One which was pretty good.

[Kanedas Bike]

20 minutes ago, Sildani said:

 

YES

and also quoted because that's hilarious

And agreed with @Sildani, Rouge One was damn good, and is one of those movies that I actually enjoy more with each subsequent viewing. 

-b.

[Chronocidal]

25 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Yeah Sildani there is a large grain of truth to that.  The flip side is none of the new stuff has measured up to the first two films but I'm also not 11 anymore either.

An exception can be made for Rogue One which was pretty good.

I can kind of understand TFA's approach, in the sense that it tried to win over fans by giving them pretty much exactly what they liked in the past, but it also was so blatantly obvious at how zeroxed the entire thing was, they even hung a giant flashing lampshade on it in-movie through bits of dialogue.  It crossed the line from being a callback to being self-plagiarism.  I think the core of a good movie was still there, but the only thing really carrying it was the nostalgia.

TLJ just went and shot that all to hell by ditching the nostalgia, and replacing it with bad writing.  Half of the characters suffered from terminal stupidity, and it ended with 99% of the Resistance dying in the worst main character screw-up in the franchise's history.  ESB was a dark plot that had a lot of the good guys get hurt in some way, and still ended on a hopeful note.  TLJ spun that on its head by leaving me thinking the whole movie would have been better off if several main characters had died in the first five minutes, and feeling completely dissatisfied that they saw absolutely no personal consequences for their mistakes.

Agreed though... Rogue One was good in all the sorts of ways it needed to be.  The battle at the end was some of the best action in any of the movies, and I still wish we could see ANH re-remastered using the CGI assets developed for it, because they're such a huge leap over the effects they made for the Special Editions.

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Chronocidal

[fenrir72]

Rey jumped the shark............eeeeeer Tie Fighter! 

[kajnrig]

Let me know if I'm wrong here:

- People who dislike TLJ generally like Rogue One.
- People who like TLJ generally dislike Rogue One.

I'm noticing that, in this recent batch of posts anyway, people who dislike TLJ cite the characters in relation to the world of Star Wars; it's not a good movie because they make poor decisions for someone living in that world. In the same vein, they cite a similar reason for liking R1: the congruity of the story as it relates to the world. The world of TLJ, and how the characters act within it, is incongruous. The world of R1, and how the characters act within it, is congruous.

On the other hand, speaking for myself, I don't put quite so much stake in the world of Star Wars. It exists in service of the story being told instead of the other way around. Which is why I find more success in TLJ - the underlying structure of the story, the paths characters take, the themes they explore, etc. - than in R1. The former's characters are (mostly) firmly established at the beginning and go through significant change via interaction with each other. The latter's characters aren't, and thus it's hard to gauge what changes them and how by the end of the story.

[Kanedas Bike]

34 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Let me know if I'm wrong here:

- People who dislike TLJ generally like Rogue One.
- People who like TLJ generally dislike Rogue One.

I'm noticing that, in this recent batch of posts anyway, people who dislike TLJ cite the characters in relation to the world of Star Wars; it's not a good movie because they make poor decisions for someone living in that world. In the same vein, they cite a similar reason for liking R1: the congruity of the story as it relates to the world. The world of TLJ, and how the characters act within it, is incongruous. The world of R1, and how the characters act within it, is congruous.

On the other hand, speaking for myself, I don't put quite so much stake in the world of Star Wars. It exists in service of the story being told instead of the other way around. Which is why I find more success in TLJ - the underlying structure of the story, the paths characters take, the themes they explore, etc. - than in R1. The former's characters are (mostly) firmly established at the beginning and go through significant change via interaction with each other. The latter's characters aren't, and thus it's hard to gauge what changes them and how by the end of the story.

Uh...I liked both, but I certainly enjoyed Rogue One more than TLJ (in which there were only moments that I didn't like, not the entire story, characters, etc).

-b.

[kajnrig]

13 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Uh...I liked both, but I certainly enjoyed Rogue One more than TLJ (in which there were only moments that I didn't like, not the entire story, characters, etc).

-b.

Eh, so it was a tenuous hypothesis at best. Just saw an unusual bam-bam-bam of R1 mentions and wanted to make sense of it.