Star Wars Episode IX, The Rise of Skywalker, available on home video

[kalvasflam]

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

You can't have that without adding another competent fighter pilot to the plot, which is more than these movies were willing to do.  How are they supposed to keep believably screaming in your face about how awesome Poe is if they add someone he might possibly struggle against?

I think the bigger problem is the believeability of a competent Tie fighter pilot outside of a Sith.  SW has gone such a ways to show the incompetence of the Imperials, it's going to be difficult to see a competent pilot that isn't also a Force wielder. 

As for the idea of Phasma... I just looked at her as another incompetent Stormtrooper who happened to have a different color palette.

[renegadeleader1]

On 1/6/2020 at 10:55 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Not much, really.  You can buy hundreds of Likes for your social media platform of choice from bot farms in China, Russia, or the Middle East by the hundred for about the cost of lunch for one at McDonalds.

I can attest to this. Years ago the American Hockey League, the hockey minor league right below the NHL used to run a mascot of the year contest fans could vote on. It's since been cancelled because somebody paid a group in India less than a hundred dollars to stuff the ballot box with over two million votes. :P

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

I think the bigger problem is the believeability of a competent Tie fighter pilot outside of a Sith.  SW has gone such a ways to show the incompetence of the Imperials, it's going to be difficult to see a competent pilot that isn't also a Force wielder. 

As for the idea of Phasma... I just looked at her as another incompetent Stormtrooper who happened to have a different color palette.

What about the Knights of Ren?  They were underutilized in 7, disappeared during 8, and, well... their appearance in 9 was what it is because of 7 & 8.

I think they would've made a nice rival pilot (or two) that's in-between the Imperials and the Force wielding Sith.

[Bolt]

12 minutes ago, sketchley said:

What about the Knights of Ren?  They were underutilized in 7, disappeared during 8, and, well... their appearance in 9 was what it is because of 7 & 8.

Yep. Once again we have to go read the comics or buy the visual guide to figure anything out about The knights of Ren. Like how KR became the leader by defeating "The Ren" (?) and was he an official knight before or after he killed his father? As all KOR must sacrifice something they love.. And is he "The Ren" once he's leader or just Emo Ren..?

It's all so confusing 

[azrael]

And that's where Disney Wars has failed. If anything requires looking at secondary media (read Merchandise), they've lost me. Or on the flip side, explain more than I need to know *cough*Solo*/cough*, ya lost me. Why in bloody hell did they need to do this or that? The Visual Guide explains it.

And yet with The Mandalorian, it explained everything I needed to know without having to rely on merchandise. The only merchandise of value is freakin' Baby Yoda.

[Seto Kaiba]

12 minutes ago, azrael said:

And that's where Disney Wars has failed. If anything requires looking at secondary media (read Merchandise), they've lost me. Or on the flip side, explain more than I need to know *cough*Solo*/cough*, ya lost me. Why in bloody hell did they need to do this or that? The Visual Guide explains it.

And yet with The Mandalorian, it explained everything I needed to know without having to rely on merchandise. The only merchandise of value is freakin' Baby Yoda.

That's Bad Robot's bad habit... they're all about flash over substance, so when they're working on an established property they try to further reduce the already-minimal screen time they're willing to spend on exposition by displacing anything more than the absolute bare minimum necessary to understand the story into secondary material.  

J.J. Abrams' soft reboot of Star Trek from back in '09 suffered from this lazy storytelling too.  Every detail about the events leading up to the destruction of Romulus, why Nero blames Spock and the Federation, why the Narada looks like a Lovecraftian porcupine, and how the parallel universe the film (later films) was set in came to be was displaced into a limited comic series nobody read... so half or more of the plot devolved into unexplained nonsense.  Star Trek: Discovery suffered from this to an extent as well.  Half the cast was so underdeveloped that if you wanted to know anything about them, you'd better have read the tie-in novels.

[electric indigo]

I always saw the beauty of Star Wars (the OT) in that it didn't give you any exposition except the opening crawl and then got right into the action. This also works for the sequels IMO. The info from the supplementary media is nice to have, but not necessary to get the story.

[jenius]

4 hours ago, electric indigo said:

I always saw the beauty of Star Wars (the OT) in that it didn't give you any exposition except the opening crawl and then got right into the action. This also works for the sequels IMO. The info from the supplementary media is nice to have, but not necessary to get the story.

Exactly what I was thinking. You don't need to know about the knights as they never became relevant. 

[Bolt]

The KOR are a huge plot hole in the movies. If they had been edited out, we wouldn't know or care. They didn't affect the movies one iota. But because they're there and mentioned multiple times. We are forced to wonder wtf.. 

[azrael]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's Bad Robot's bad habit... they're all about flash over substance, so when they're working on an established property they try to further reduce the already-minimal screen time they're willing to spend on exposition by displacing anything more than the absolute bare minimum necessary to understand the story into secondary material.  

J.J. Abrams' soft reboot of Star Trek from back in '09 suffered from this lazy storytelling too.  Every detail about the events leading up to the destruction of Romulus, why Nero blames Spock and the Federation, why the Narada looks like a Lovecraftian porcupine, and how the parallel universe the film (later films) was set in came to be was displaced into a limited comic series nobody read... so half or more of the plot devolved into unexplained nonsense.  Star Trek: Discovery suffered from this to an extent as well.  Half the cast was so underdeveloped that if you wanted to know anything about them, you'd better have read the tie-in novels.

 

5 hours ago, electric indigo said:

I always saw the beauty of Star Wars (the OT) in that it didn't give you any exposition except the opening crawl and then got right into the action.

Nuggets of information is in the dialog. The opening crawl gets us to where we need to be when we start the movie. After which, both the OT and PT threw in nuggets of info around the movie. The Mandalorian or any sane movie or TV show does this and it's perfectly fine. Wonderful. Jar Jar Abrams hates this cuz he loves his mystery boxes. It has to be a exposition bomb or nothing at all (i.e. it's stupid merchandise material). I should not need to look at merchandise to answer my questions. Do we need to know VF stats to enjoy a Macross show? No. They're nice nuggets but not necessary to the story. If there's a significant element, it's thrown out during the course of the show. Abrams' style? Nope. It's going to be a truth-bomb or chirping crickets on information like that.

Star Trek Discovery? The problem there and with many shows is that there are too many characters and not enough episodes or vice versa. I had this problem with Netflix Marvel shows and normal TV shows. Sometimes their runs ran too long or too short for the number of characters in there. Discovery's problem too many characters and not enough episodes. They need to find a happy medium. Disney Wars, thanks to Abrams, falls out of that happy medium when he stuffed these movies with characters that are there for the sake of being there and have no business being there.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, electric indigo said:

I always saw the beauty of Star Wars (the OT) in that it didn't give you any exposition except the opening crawl and then got right into the action. This also works for the sequels IMO. The info from the supplementary media is nice to have, but not necessary to get the story.

That was because Star Wars started more or less in medias res, and relevant exposition was given as the story progressed to establish the why of anything that needed explaining... like Obi-wan explaining who the Jedi Knights were and the nature of the Force while teaching Luke, or his backhanded explanation that Vader was a Jedi who fell to the dark side.

Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi had a lot of that kind of exposition, but it's largely absent from Jar-Jar Abrams' The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker because Jar-Jar was focused on nothing but getting as many special effects-heavy action sequences as possible into the film's two hour runtime.

[Thom]

The Knights of Ren. The (re)rise of Palpatine. Leading story threads to tie TFA and TRoS together. They all fall into the black hole of Ep 8.

[electric indigo]

After waiting about 20 years to learn how Vader got his mask or what happened in the clone wars, I'm more relaxed on these things.

[wwwmwww]

On 1/5/2020 at 6:26 PM, Roy Focker said:

Saw it and is it safe to write about spoilers out in the open now?

Just saw it myself and wasn't certain about spoilers either so I'll play it safe.  Over all I enjoyed it far more then the last one but there are just so many questions about the end.

Below are some of my questions and comments on the movie... if there are answers to some of these questions please share.

Spoiler

(1) Just what was the signal the Star Destroyers were getting from that tower?  Initially I assumed they needed the tower to tell them which way was up so they could fly out of the atmosphere.  But at the end of the movie there is a series of shots showing Star Destroyers blowing up all over the galaxy.  I remember seeing one going down near Cloud City.  So am I now to assume that signal went to all Star Destroyers and it was the "Ok not to explode" signal?  Looks like if they lost the signal they initiate their self destruct.  Up till that point I was sitting there wondering why can't they just look out the windows to see which way is up, plus aren't those round things on top radar domes?  Surely they can see the surface of the planet on radar at least.  

(2) What is the deal with force users dying anytime they exert themselves a little bit?  In the last movie, Luke exerts himself to project his image to another planet and that kills him.  In this one Leia dies as she exerts herself to reach out to Ben.  Rey is dying after she exerted herself to kill the Emperor.  Then Ben dies after exerting himself to save Rey, even though Rey saved Ben earlier in the move the same way, with no negative consequences.  I wonder how many force users just disappear sitting on the throne the first time they are constipated.  When Obi Wan dies in the original I never associated it with him being a bit too winded from swing his saber around.  I had always assumed he knew he'd never beat Vader and was simply allowing himself to be a distraction to allow the others to escape. 

(3) Before the movie I was wondering how they'd explain riding horses across the deck of a flying Star Destroyer.  Ok, they do actually have a very contrived reason.  Still I cannot believe that is a good idea in any universe.

(4) I'm not thrilled by the introduction of the new force powers: force healing and force teleportation.  The way Rey and Ben passed the light saber back and forth at the end was obviously set up by Ben pulling the necklace off Ray but it just seemed a step too far for me.

(5) Since when can force ghosts actually hold real physical light sabers?  If Luke's force ghost can do that, why not show up at the end and help take the Emperor out.  Or better yet, he should have teleported a real light saber to the image he projected in the last movie and we could have had a real light saber fight between Kylo Ren and Luke's projected image in the last movie.

(6) Considering the reason's why the Emperor wanted Ray to kill him and that all the Star Destroyers were set to self destruct if they lose "the signal".  I'm almost of the mindset that the end went exactly the way the Emperor wanted it to.  He does ultimately get Rey to kill him so I'm assuming the Emperor's consciousness could now be dormant inside Rey.  I was thinking a perfect after credit scene could have been Ray laughing and it slowly start to sound just like the Emperor laughing.

(7) I didn't really like the way that Lando always just seemed to randomly pop up whenever the plot needed him to.  Why was he riding around in a tank at Burning Man anyways?  I borrowed the Burning Man term from one of the YouTube videos I've seen, but it seems to fit that scene perfectly. 

(8) Are we to assume the fleet of Star Destroyers that the Emperor raised out of the Ocean were manufactured there in the Ocean?  Were they maned?  If they flew in from elsewhere, just how long had they and their crews been parked there in the Ocean?  If they were manufactured there, by whom?  And where did the crews come from?  Keep in mind no one is supposed to know where this planet is or how to get to it, but are we to assume a work force capable of building these was flying in and out for the years the construction would take?  Maybe we are to assume the Emperor construed these using nothing more then the dark side of the force and pulled the raw materials out of the planet?  Or maybe he force teleported them to the planet?

And one general comment that I have about the space ship physics used in all 3 movies of the latest trilogy.  I described it to a friend by saying it just makes space feel far too small, all the turns too tight, and very small pans from one point of action to the next.  My friend agreed saying that yes, it all looked to him as a kid swooping toy models around as he held them in his hand, which I agree may be a better description.  I remember reading that some of the scenes in the original Star Wars, A New Hope, were actually modeled after real combat flight footage from World War II.  True or not the shots certainly felt far more real to me in the earlier movies and at least felt like they had some real world physics behind them.  In this last trilogy I don't get a sense of any real world physics and the movements appear to be limited in the same way a toy would be since it must stay within arms reach of the child holding it.  Did anyone else get that impression?  If so was that done intentionally, or just an indication that the special effects were rushed to get done in time?

 

Thanks,

Carl 

Edited January 9, 2020 by wwwmwww
Added question (8).

[jenius]

1) I thought that the ones blowing up elsewhere were just because people were fighting back. I think your "which way is up" understanding is correct for the ones nearest the fighting. Basically, after the climax evil is beaten and good guys around the universe drive it back further.

2) The force healing thing is giving your energy to heal so you have to die to bring back a dead person. Luke had to die because if Jedi could do that like no plots ever work that involve Jedi, it has to be a fatal effort. Leia had to die because Carrie Fisher died :). Anakin died when he killed Palpatine. Ben died to guide Luke. It's just the thing to do!

3) It was so dumb... so so dumb. 

4) I think this goes to the whole "force diad" thing. They have a special connection. It's all macguffin-tastic but yeah. 

5) The going theory there is that only on that one planet, that nexus of the force planet, are force ghosts so powerful they can materialize and bonk people or grab things.

6) Were they all really set to self destruct? I don't remember it very well. I thought after he died and the good guys knocked down the antenna they were able to just go around blowing the bad guys up. Guess it's real fortunate the good guys ships aren't as messed up by the planet as the bad guy ships?

7) Agreed. Also hated the creepy Lando ending and that Lando could pull together an army when Princess Leia couldn't even get a "No, we're busy right now." Also hated that technology, no matter how out of use, works perfectly fine in the SW universe. Wouldn't that bounty hunters space ship have been scavenged or out of fuel or something? 

8 I think we're supposed to assume that the people of that planet are somewhat plentiful despite how awful it seemed and that they build Star Destroyers like ancient Egyptians built pyramids. Maybe after they build them they dock them underwater to keep the whole planet on the down low. 

I think SW has moved to go as far toward fantasy as it can. A little realism is confusing because there's so much SW that just doesn't work in real life. So, prequels and sequels have erred on the fantastic 'anything can happen in this magic future' rather than trying to simulate the physics of the world we know. 

[wwwmwww]

25 minutes ago, jenius said:

6) Were they all really set to self destruct?

That is never stated in the movie.  That was just the only way I saw to explain why they were blowing up all across the galaxy at the same time.  The only place we actually saw any combat was around the planet the Emperor was on.  Yet we saw several Star Destroyers crashing elsewhere, Jakku, Cloud City, etc.

Agreed about Lando's creepy line at the end.  My daughter-in-law told me that was to set up some spin-off Lando series.  Not certain if she's actually read that somewhere or is just reading that into the way it was presented.  It certainly felt very forced and out of place... and if you think about it for more then 2 seconds... creepy.

Carl

 

[Chronocidal]

43 minutes ago, wwwmwww said:

That is never stated in the movie.  That was just the only way I saw to explain why they were blowing up all across the galaxy at the same time.  The only place we actually saw any combat was around the planet the Emperor was on.  Yet we saw several Star Destroyers crashing elsewhere, Jakku, Cloud City, etc.

They blew up all across the universe at the same time because JJ has the spatial comprehension of a two-year-old.  He can't understand that people on every planet don't see the same things all at the same time, because everyone in the universe exists within a stone's throw of each other, and light travels at the speed of plot.

[pengbuzz]

8 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

They blew up all across the universe at the same time because JJ has the spatial comprehension of a two-year-old.  He can't understand that people on every planet don't see the same things all at the same time, because everyone in the universe exists within a stone's throw of each other, and light travels at the speed of plot.

They blew up because someone fed the script for "The Rise of Skywalker" into their navacomputers, and they simply overloaded and exploded!

 

BTW: if all of this happened "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away (like, 1600's in the Andromeda Galaxy), then how about what's happening NOW?

And for that matter... they bring it from their galaxy to HERE?

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by pengbuzz

[Thom]

I didn't get any creep vibes from Lando's final line. It sounded like the beginning of another journey for those character to help her, and the other deserters, find their families.

1) The signal was to help the Final Order Star Destroyers get out of the planet's atmosphere. Something with the atmosphere or the electromagnetics of the planet itself was futzing with their guidance systems while they were down low. During the attack, the Final Order realized what was happening and turned off the signal from the tower, and Ren's Star Destroyer, which was higher up, took over. Which of course meant they then had to attack that SD with their ground forces.

The others shown being destroyed at the end were First Order Star Destroyers, showing that other systems were attacking now. Why they didn't at the end of TLJ..? But it wasn't a self destruct at all. If you recall the one destroyed over Endor, it was taken out with the Haldo Maneuver.

2) For Luke, he was projecting himself not just to another planet, but across star systems, and who knows how many! I'm assuming that takes quite a lot of energy to do and he just over-extended himself. I was very disappointed with that though. I think it would have been so much better if he had gone to the planet and did face Kylo. His death after that just seemed to come out of nowhere.

For Leia, it was the same thing. But I think she did more. Kylo was being tempted by the light through all three movies, and I think when Leia contacted him she did more than allow him to feel her death. I think she latched onto him and gave him an anchor in the light. So it was more than simply overextending herself, it was making the choice to sacrifice herself to support her son. And unlike Luke, when she died her body didn't disappear until the moment that Ben's vanished. Which I think supports the theory that she bound them together in order to give him enough strength to stand against the Dark Side.

4) That one, I'm pretty sure, has to do with them being dyads. They were focal points across the Force and I think that allowed them to reach across it. Kylo realized first that they could do it and then so did Rey.

8 ) For that, I think those SDs were actually Imperial Star Destroyers. Especially considering their dated overall design, I think they were simply refurbished there in order to carry the super lasers. As for crews, I would assume skeleton crews for most if not outright automated for the majority. Now, do I think there were far too many, then hell yes! A dozen would have been more believable than a fleet of thousands. And I think one escaped... There was that one Final Order SD that destroyed Kijimi. I don't recall seeing it destroyed.

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Thom

[Chronocidal]

9 minutes ago, Thom said:

I didn't get any creep vibes from Lando's final line. It sounded like the beginning of another journey for those character to help her, and the other deserters, find their families.

 

This is actually related to several scenes entirely cut from the movie, where they explained the reason Lando was on that planet in the first place, and tied that to the fact that he lost a daughter when she was kidnapped by the First Order, who turned out to be Janna.

There's a reason people have said the leaked plot would have actually been a better movie.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Chronocidal

[Bolt]

I had caught wind of that too. So Land's behavior wasn't out of place for me. 

As far as these new force powers we've seen, one cool thing about KOTOR and the EU is the many different force powers, lightsaber colors and techniques that have been explored. Even a hint of different approaches to the force have been adopted in the past movies. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Bolt

[kajnrig]

I've got a question of my own: Where's this "Force dyad" thing coming from? I don't recall such a term ever being mentioned in the movies. (If it was in TFA, then I guess that shows how much attention I paid that movie.) I just assumed it was funky Force mojo working on them across space-time same as it always did.

3 hours ago, wwwmwww said:

(4) I'm not thrilled by the introduction of the new force powers: force healing and force teleportation.  The way Rey and Ben passed the light saber back and forth at the end was obviously set up by Ben pulling the necklace off Ray but it just seemed a step too far for me.

I don't get why this movie in particular suddenly has people questioning Force powers. It's weird space magic that sometimes blindsides even the most "adept" at harnessing it; Rey and Kylo Ren were both clearly weirded out by their "ability" to communicate in the last movie, as well as by how much stronger that "ability" progressed throughout this one. Kylo Ren looked like he was about to crap himself in terror when he saw her necklace in his hand.

2 hours ago, jenius said:

2) The force healing thing is giving your energy to heal so you have to die to bring back a dead person.

Is it, and do you? I mean yes, healing someone probably involves expending some effort, but I picture it less as "you put your life energy into them" and more as "you manipulate the Force and how it interacts with their body to promote cell growth" or something.

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

As far as these new force powers we've seen, one cool thing about KOTOR and the EU is the many different force powers, lightsaber colors and techniques that have been explored.

Why is lightsaber color such a... a thing for Star Wars? I mean I know why, I get it. I just find the in-universe lore about them really stupid. They were red and blue (and green) in the OT because red is a threatening color and blue is a cooler, peaceful one (and green was different from blue but still A Good Color). (And of course they were originally colorless IIRC but that was maybe because the effects hadn't been finished yet and/or the concept of a lightsaber hadn't yet included color and/or something else, I'm sure someone here can explain it all.)

Then somewhere along the way red became ONLY a Sith color for Reasons, or maybe Sith ONLY used red lightsabers again for Reasons, whereas Jedi get their pick of the entire frickin' rainbow for their own Reasons, and it's all symbolic, and all this attention paid to this. one. Specific. THING. and none of it bothers to think about actual reasons for color-coding.

Like, I'd buy the lore if it just included, somewhere along the line, someone having X-colored lightsaber and casually explaining, "Yeah I thought green would look frakking cool." And then someone else is like "That lightsaber totally does not go with your outfit, what are you thinking?" And then a third person chimes in with "So what? No one asked you, Brenda." And the pragmatist of the group goes, "Shut the frakk up and hand me your orange lightsaber so I can cut a hole through this wall," because he's colorblind.

[azrael]

20 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I've got a question of my own: Where's this "Force dyad" thing coming from?

Jar Jar Abrams' ass.  It’s supposed to be related to the rule of 2 but who knows. 

[Chronocidal]

To be entirely fair, the force teleportation thing was -sort of- addressed in the EU, but was given... well, to say more explanation would imply there was any given at all in this case.  It was explained there as a key character learning of the force from a reclusive race living in a far corner of the galaxy who studied aspects of the force not directly attributed to either dark or light.  Not the best explanation, but it was much more mystical in nature ("Did I just teleport that coffee cup to you, or was it there all along?") and less "I'm going to upload a lightsaber through our Force-Skype for you to download."

In fairness to the movie, the problem was not new force powers being invented, it was the method in which they were introduced.  Healing, teleportation, projections, or whatever else have all existed in previous material.  The problem is that instead of being naturally introduced, the characters called up Amazon and kept ordering deus ex machinas via Prime shipping.  There was no build up, there was no explanation, there was no effort spent to acquire anything involved.

The ass-pulling was getting so enthusiastic, we were seeing teeth.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Chronocidal

[pengbuzz]

25 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I've got a question of my own: Where's this "Force dyad" thing coming from? I don't recall such a term ever being mentioned in the movies. (If it was in TFA, then I guess that shows how much attention I paid that movie.) I just assumed it was funky Force mojo working on them across space-time same as it always did.

I don't get why this movie in particular suddenly has people questioning Force powers. It's weird space magic that sometimes blindsides even the most "adept" at harnessing it; Rey and Kylo Ren were both clearly weirded out by their "ability" to communicate in the last movie, as well as by how much stronger that "ability" progressed throughout this one. Kylo Ren looked like he was about to crap himself in terror when he saw her necklace in his hand.

Is it, and do you? I mean yes, healing someone probably involves expending some effort, but I picture it less as "you put your life energy into them" and more as "you manipulate the Force and how it interacts with their body to promote cell growth" or something.

Why is lightsaber color such a... a thing for Star Wars? I mean I know why, I get it. I just find the in-universe lore about them really stupid. They were red and blue (and green) in the OT because red is a threatening color and blue is a cooler, peaceful one (and green was different from blue but still A Good Color). (And of course they were originally colorless IIRC but that was maybe because the effects hadn't been finished yet and/or the concept of a lightsaber hadn't yet included color and/or something else, I'm sure someone here can explain it all.)

Then somewhere along the way red became ONLY a Sith color for Reasons, or maybe Sith ONLY used red lightsabers again for Reasons, whereas Jedi get their pick of the entire frickin' rainbow for their own Reasons, and it's all symbolic, and all this attention paid to this. one. Specific. THING. and none of it bothers to think about actual reasons for color-coding.

Like, I'd buy the lore if it just included, somewhere along the line, someone having X-colored lightsaber and casually explaining, "Yeah I thought green would look frakking cool." And then someone else is like "That lightsaber totally does not go with your outfit, what are you thinking?" And then a third person chimes in with "So what? No one asked you, Brenda." And the pragmatist of the group goes, "Shut the frakk up and hand me your orange lightsaber so I can cut a hole through this wall," because he's colorblind.

Because the Kyber Crystals call out to the Padawans in the Crystal Cave, which the Padawans enter in order to find the focusing crystal for their lightsaber. Apparently, the color indicated the nature of the Jedi.

On that note: the Sith make the crystal "bleed" by forcing all their hate and anger into a crystal until it turns red.

Edited January 9, 2020 by pengbuzz

[Bolt]

There was also the "flow-walk" force power in the EU. Darth Solo used. As well as at least one instance of Luke being in the same room as Darth Cadeus and then vanishing and being gone. This disturbed Jacen so much because he actually belived Luke had been there. And had even felt his presence so close.

As far as lightsaber colors.  It makes sense that different crystals emanate different energies and therefore may be drawn to by different personality types.

[renegadeleader1]

1 hour ago, azrael said:

Jar Jar Abrams' ass.  It’s supposed to be related to the rule of 2 but who knows. 

Try Rian Johnson's ass. This dyad dynamic got introduced in The Last Jedi with Snoke who is apparently being forced controlled by the Emperor now gloating about creating a link in the force connecting the two which the Emperor in Rise Of Skywalker was oblivious to.

It's also the film that introduced the space teleportation gimmick during the scene where Luke interrupted their force mind meld and Kylo ended up back on his ship soaking wet from the rain.

[Chronocidal]

27 minutes ago, renegadeleader1 said:

It's also the film that introduced the space teleportation gimmick during the scene where Luke interrupted their force mind meld and Kylo ended up back on his ship soaking wet from the rain.

What's actually funny to me is that I really didn't feel like that was a problem?  It was an interesting and more mystical way to portray it, which I was mostly okay with.  The outright physical interaction across light years of distance (or maybe in JJ Space it was just down the block, hard to tell) just didn't flow as well because it was so ham-fisted.

I don't remember the water soaking him (granted I saw the movie all of once so I could have forgotten), but I remember him wiping away a drop with a confused look that kept things subtle enough you could believe he imagined it, or it was just his own sweat.  Rey sending him a lightsaber via her Force Onedrive had all the subtle nuance of a drunken Viking dual-wielding lawn mowers.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Chronocidal

[jenius]

24 minutes ago, renegadeleader1 said:

Try Rian Johnson's ass. This dyad dynamic got introduced in The Last Jedi with Snoke who is apparently being forced controlled by the Emperor now gloating about creating a link in the force connecting the two which the Emperor in Rise Of Skywalker was oblivious to.

It's also the film that introduced the space teleportation gimmick during the scene where Luke interrupted their force mind meld and Kylo ended up back on his ship soaking wet from the rain.

I don't think the dyad dynamic and having their moments together are the same thing. Their moments together, like a little force bridge, was something Snoke did. What Snoke didn't know when he did that is that the two were already linked by being a dyad, so the bridge connected them in a way that exceeded what Snoke or Palpatine believed possible. 

[kajnrig]

14 hours ago, azrael said:

Jar Jar Abrams' ass.  It’s supposed to be related to the rule of 2 but who knows. 

I mean the idea of the two of them specifically being tied together by the Force in a way unique from all the other Jedi in the past, did that come from TFA or something? Maybe an interview with JJA? Supplementary material?

14 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

The problem is that instead of being naturally introduced, the characters called up Amazon and kept ordering deus ex machinas via Prime shipping.

That's a problem with the storytelling, then, not so much the ability itself. In which case, I see, that makes much more sense.

14 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Because the Kyber Crystals call out to the Padawans in the Crystal Cave, which the Padawans enter in order to find the focusing crystal for their lightsaber. Apparently, the color indicated the nature of the Jedi.

On that note: the Sith make the crystal "bleed" by forcing all their hate and anger into a crystal until it turns red.

I'm just being a pedantic ass at this rate, so feel free to ignore my ranting, it's mostly disingenuous questioning.

Is that then the only way a lightsaber is made? Are they exclusively a Force user weapon? I always got the sense that anyone could use a lightsaber, but only a Jedi had the Force-derived level of premonition to wield such an inherently unsafe weapon. If a Jedi doesn't like the color of their weapon, what then? Can they change it? Does the color of a lightsaber change as the Jedi grows and their "nature" changes? What if a Jedi dies? If a Jedi gives their lightsaber away? If it doesn't really matter that you personalize your lightsaber, why not mass produce them in some fashion?

What's the point of making a crystal "bleed"? Does it make the resulting lightsaber stronger than a regular lightsaber? Doesn't seem to. Seems rather extraneous. I mean, if the crystals call to a Jedi and indicates a Jedi's nature, wouldn't one that calls to a Sith already make a red lightsaber if red indicates hatred and anger? Or is red like an "artificial" color, one that doesn't naturally occur?

14 hours ago, Bolt said:

As far as lightsaber colors.  It makes sense that different crystals emanate different energies and therefore may be drawn to by different personality types.

I dunno, that sounds perilously close to some new age mysticism BS. I mean even if we hold that to be the case - which it seems to be?, at least in-universe - like... what if someone just wants a different color lightsaber? Are they literally just stuck with whatever one they get at age 16, 17, whenever they make a lightsaber? Surely someone would have desired a different color enough to invent that technology? And it would then be arbitrary to change one's lightsaber color like you do in every Star Wars game ever?

12 hours ago, renegadeleader1 said:

This dyad dynamic got introduced in The Last Jedi with Snoke who is apparently being forced controlled by the Emperor now gloating about creating a link in the force connecting the two which the Emperor in Rise Of Skywalker was oblivious to.

12 hours ago, jenius said:

I don't think the dyad dynamic and having their moments together are the same thing. Their moments together, like a little force bridge, was something Snoke did. What Snoke didn't know when he did that is that the two were already linked by being a dyad, so the bridge connected them in a way that exceeded what Snoke or Palpatine believed possible. 

When did people start using the term "dyad"? is what I'm specifically asking.

[jenius]

Kylo introduces the term in TRoS.

Edited January 9, 2020 by jenius

[Bolt]

14 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I'm just being a pedantic ass at this rate, so feel free to ignore my ranting, it's mostly disingenuous questioning.

Again, about the color of your lightsaber. Any would be padwan who's being trained is going through a lot of inner self training. I know that's a given , but jedi are taught to learn who they are and accept themselves. The same is true with their saber color. And, presumably, their lightsaber color would resonate with them. There's no wrong color. To want a different color might have more to do with vanity . Or a lack of understanding about how you move or where your place is in the force. And yes, there are many examples of Jedi using different color sabers. (Luke goes from using blue to green), it makes sense that a Jedi changes saber colors as they themselves go thru radical changes. Some never change lightsaber colors. Some do. It's life.

20 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I dunno, that sounds perilously close to some new age mysticism BS.

You're pretty much quoting Han Solo from ANH.

 

12 minutes ago, jenius said:

Kylo introduces the ten in TRoS.

Oy vey.. there's still not a satisfactory reason why..

[Chronocidal]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Again, about the color of your lightsaber. Any would be padwan who's being trained is going through a lot of inner self training. I know that's a given , but jedi are taught to learn who they are and accept themselves. The same is true with their saber color. And, presumably, their lightsaber color would resonate with them. There's no wrong color. To want a different color might have more to do with vanity . Or a lack of understanding about how you move or where your place is in the force. And yes, there are many examples of Jedi using different color sabers. (Luke goes from using blue to green), it makes sense that a Jedi changes saber colors as they themselves go thru radical changes. Some never change lightsaber colors. Some do. It's life.

If I'm being honest about the background for how lightsabers work, while the idea that the crystals are sentient and attuned to the user is interesting, I'm not sure it was a good idea to shoehorn that much lore in after the fact.  

I'm not even saying it was a bad idea exactly, but it came so late in the game that it's hard to work it into even the existing movies, to say nothing of all the EU material that may or may not directly negate it.

When you introduce that many "required" steps to the creation of a "proper" lightsaber, you also introduce inconsistencies via the fact that Luke probably got to do literally none of that.  He may have gotten instruction via Ben and Yoda, but where was that crystal cave?  Was there more than one?  Was that what was being mined on Jedha in Rogue One, and the padawans had to visit that temple to pick a crystal?  Or were they mined in bulk and stockpiled at the Jedi equivalent of Ollivanders' for the young students to go and pick out a crystal?

I've never watched most of Clone Wars or Rebels, so I'm absolutely missing out on any material or explanation there, but it feels like the whole kyber crystal explanation was introduced too late to fit in well as a whole.  I won't say it's not a "fun" idea, but it also leans far more on the fantasy side of things, and makes lightsabers a lot more mystical than just a projected plasma cutting beam.

[Bolt]

32 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I've never watched most of Clone Wars or Rebels, so I'm absolutely missing out on any material or explanation there, but it feels like the whole kyber crystal explanation was introduced too late to fit in well as a whole.  I won't say it's not a "fun" idea, but it also leans far more on the fantasy side of things, and makes lightsabers a lot more mystical than just a projected plasma cutting beam.

Agreed. 

The kyber crystal ritual wasn't necessary information. And , I believe Jedi, like Mace Windu did not receive his purple crystal in that way. t's not the only way a jedi could come into possession of a kyber and adopt it..

[jvmacross]

Sneaked in a second viewing this afternoon.  I liked it more.  It will probably end up being one of the Star Wars movies (movies in general) that gets a re-watch at least once a year. 

So long "Skywalker Saga"...thanks for the memories....it's been a great ride!