Star Wars Episode IX, The Rise of Skywalker, available on home video

[Dobber]

Basically, if you don’t like TLJ, we are in a loose/ loose situation with TROS. On the one hand, if the movie does poorly, then the “Toxic Fandom” will be blamed for poor turnout or for JJ and company changing the path TLJ set them on that others liked.

While on the other hand, if the movie does well, then new audiences can and will replace the old fans and that we are not needed (as Bob Iger has said). Campea as usual blamed the “Toxic fandom” once again even when saying it comes on both sides, but the 2 sides he described are still both the anti TLJ group. He won’t/can’t see that there is toxicity from the pro-side as well which includes the media. Man is this crap tiresome.

Chris

Edited December 17, 2019 by Dobber

[peter]

I think I've read too much.  Going to watch it this Thursday, guess I better stay out of this thread for a while, lol!

 

[jvmacross]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So, in all likelihood, the leaks really were Disney market research and not the worst NDA enforcement job in human history.  Delightful.

Any truth to what Doomcock is shrilling about, about George Lucas supposedly not being allowed to attend the premiere?

Wouldn't be surprised....it's now apparent that his "suggestions" on how to bring "his" story to a close were all scrapped....guess that's what happens when you sell your franchise....whodathunk!!! 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Wouldn't be surprised....

So, I did some digging into my own question during an especially dull teleconference with Turin... and the fuss about George Lucas having been "banned" from the premiere of Rise of Skywalker seems to be pure conjecture on the part of overworked YouTube hack brigade.  George Lucas didn't attend the premiere of Rise of Skywalker, and it isn't clear if he was invited or not, but they've jumped headlong to the worst/most controversial possible conclusion as is their custom.

 

Quote

it's now apparent that his "suggestions" on how to bring "his" story to a close were all scrapped....guess that's what happens when you sell your franchise....whodathunk!!! 

Considering what George's previous "unfettered" story ideas were like... this can only be taken as one of the vanishingly rare good decisions Disney made in the development and production of what otherwise seems set to be a criminally bad travesty of a film.

When half your handpicked Hollywood premiere audience of yes men can't bring themselves to effusively praise the film, you're in for a critical beating.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

Even though I'm going to see it, I'm saving the pop corn for afterwards. When all the real ranting begins, lol..

There's certainly more haters for SW now, (someone else can do the phd dissertation on why, but i have my ideas) but there are also next gen fans being born every minute ( what's that about a sucker born every minute..?) and we already know ,based on pre sales alone, episode nine is going to make big at the box office. But will the one thing Disney really walks away with be the sound of a thousand baby yodas dying..?

[Mog]

29 minutes ago, Bolt said:

There's certainly more haters for SW now, (someone else can do the phd dissertation on why, but i have my ideas) but there are also next gen fans being born every minute ( what's that about a sucker born every minute..?) and we already know ,based on pre sales alone, episode nine is going to make big at the box office. But will the one thing Disney really walks away with be the sound of a thousand baby yodas dying..?

I wouldn't necessarily say "haters," per se.

More than anything, Disney has fractured the fan base.  What once was a generally solid and mostly united fandom has been separated out to bunch of different factions with different priorities and preferences.

Personally at this point, I don't care for the sequel trilogy.  But that disdain doesn't transfer itself to The Mandalorian.  Nor will TROS or the sequel trilogy diminish my excitement for Clone Wars Season 7.  Nor does it change my opinions about the preceding main saga movies that came before them.

Had the sequel trilogy had a consistent and logical story throughout or had the characters gone through clear arcs and compelling developments, I might have grown attached to the characters.  But alas, it didn't deliver. <shurgs>

[jenius]

I think the prequels split the fan base pretty well but ten plus years and some fun cartoons later, people were ready for more. It will likely be the same with these and various Disney Plus shows.

[Chronocidal]

I honestly don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of that happening this time around.  Cinematic quality aside, the prequels had a coherent narrative, because they were written by one person.  I feel like they got better with age in people's memories, as the flaws blurred compared with the overall story.

This storytelling-by-committee mess is only going to get worse over time.  Where people could go back and find little things to like about the prequels, I think the next decade is going to be spent finding layer after layer of incoherent sewage beneath the shiny lens-flare exterior.

At the very best, I feel like it's going to wind up like 2009 JJ Trek: a decently entertaining movie that only holds together until you actually think about any of it for more than five seconds.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Chronocidal

[Mog]

23 minutes ago, jenius said:

I think the prequels split the fan base pretty well but ten plus years and some fun cartoons later, people were ready for more. It will likely be the same with these and various Disney Plus shows.

I think most level-headed fans back then (late 90's/early 00's) would admit that the Original Trilogy was better than the Prequel Trilogy.

With Revenge of the Sith, you may see a little variation of opinions.

But not opinion variation to the extent seen with TLJ.

Plus as some folks mentioned before on this thread, ship designs and music were still on point for the prequels.  There's really been no memorable or consistent leitmotifs/themes for Rey, Kylo, Finn, or Poe.  Notice how much they have to rely on the old themes and Duel of the Fates to sell this "last" movie?

Edited December 18, 2019 by Mog

[505thAirborne]

 

[TangledThorns]

IGN gave it a 7. Not too good so I may not see it in the theater.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/12/18/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-review

[slaginpit]

ahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. frakk its getting tanked. I dont want to even see it tonight. Even if its free ugh

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by slaginpit

[Bolt]

This is what they're gonna play before the movie starts..

 

[slaginpit]

13 minutes ago, Bolt said:

This is what they're gonna play before the movie starts..

 

[Hikuro]

Yeah RT gave it a rotten score, first one since TPM to receive this low of score unless ya count the clone wars animated movie.

I dunno, I’m still avoiding spoilers and ads and whatever else is out there till Saturday morning. I find it odd that TFA and TLJ were so high yet this got pulled down hard.

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Mog said:

More than anything, Disney has fractured the fan base.  What once was a generally solid and mostly united fandom has been separated out to bunch of different factions with different priorities and preferences.

Solid and mostly united?  I dunno... Star Wars fans already had a LOT to bicker about from the old Expanded Universe, and that was before the prequel trilogy came along and we got the first round of "RUINED FOREVER" complaining.

(Not saying the complaining was necessarily even unreasonable, just that it occurred.)

 

12 minutes ago, Hikuro said:

Yeah RT gave it a rotten score, first one since TPM to receive this low of score unless ya count the clone wars animated movie.

Woah... I admit I was expecting some negative reviews after the handpicked Hollywood yes-men audience had some dissenters who refused to rave about it, but I was unprepared for the savage beating it received from the top critics.  Only 14 of the 37 to chime in so far had favorable opinions of the movie.  Some of the criticisms that really stand out are things like "may it be the last episode of a saga that should've ended long ago.", "In its anxiety not to offend, it comes off more like fanfiction than the creation of actual professional filmmakers. A bot would be able to pull off a more surprising movie.", and "Rather than making a movie some people might love, Abrams tried to make a movie no one would hate, and as a result, you don't feel much of anything at all.".

 

[Mog]

30 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Solid and mostly united?  I dunno... Star Wars fans already had a LOT to bicker about from the old Expanded Universe, and that was before the prequel trilogy came along and we got the first round of "RUINED FOREVER" complaining.

Yeah, and there were annoyances about the Special Edition changes too.

But for the main line movies, there wasn’t as wide a divide in opinions.

Most fans would agree that TPM and AOTC had disappointing flaws, cruddy dialogue, and an over-reliance on CGI battles.

But again, the RANGE of opinions wasn’t as wide as it was after TLJ.

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

"Rather than making a movie some people might love, Abrams tried to make a movie no one would hate, and as a result, you don't feel much of anything at all.".

This is exactly what I was afraid would happen. Lo and behold.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

This is exactly what I was afraid would happen. Lo and behold.

It was inevitable.

Like most corporate think tanks, Disney's Star Wars brain trust is so afraid of how negative feedback will reflect on them personally in the eyes of their superiors that they pathologically overreact to the slightest criticisms while chasing an unachievable 100% approval rating.  They were so preoccupied with trying to take every last piece of criticism they received for The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi on board that, in their minds, the project's goal invisibly shifted from making an engaging story to silencing their detractors.  

They tried to please everyone, so they pleased noone.  

[azrael]

Judging by the reviews, this sounds like a hot mess. Gee willickers. Go figure.

There are certain Abrams-isms in reading the story (which I'm not a fan of). Namely...
- Stuff just happens. Without watching this movie and just knowing Palpatine is back in this movie, the questions is why? How? Nothing has been leading up to this. And it's left to be explained later. TFA never had him. TLJ never explained anything so having him show up here doesn't make any sense. Again, dealing with LOST and having  Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse explain what Abrams never bothered to explain always bothered me. We see it here. At this point, no, that's not acceptable.

 

[anime52k8]

Speaking of toxic fandom, I bought myself a little something because my heart is full of hate and spite. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by anime52k8

[no3Ljm]

10 minutes ago, anime52k8 said:

Speaking of toxic fandom, I bought myself a little something because my heart is full of hate and spite. 

Full of hate and spite... Hmmm... You're not turning Sid on that one, right? 

 

[anime52k8]

No way, I just wanted to show my support for good things that make trash people mad. 

[TangledThorns]

45 minutes ago, anime52k8 said:

Speaking of toxic fandom, I bought myself a little something because my heart is full of hate and spite. 

We found our Jar Jar Binks fan, LOL.

[kalvasflam]

9 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

Speaking of toxic fandom, I bought myself a little something because my heart is full of hate and spite. 

Well, the doll is certainly proportioned correctly.

[Negotiator]

i'll still keep in open mind goin in even tho i know all the spoilers.  would like to see how it plays out when ever i get a chance to see this some day.  if JJ attempted to course correct from ruin johnson, then that's good in my book.  personally, I still have to move this trilogy to a side story ala clone wars before the next true sequel trilogy happens.

[Mog]

Clone Wars, Rebels, Mandalorian.

That’s the spiritual successor trilogy.

[TangledThorns]

On a side note I'm watching Gorky Park with Ian McDiarmid. He was an interesting but genius choice for the role as The Emperor. 

[Dobber]

5 hours ago, Negotiator said:

i'll still keep in open mind goin in even tho i know all the spoilers.  would like to see how it plays out when ever i get a chance to see this some day.  if JJ attempted to course correct from ruin johnson, then that's good in my book.  personally, I still have to move this trilogy to a side story ala clone wars before the next true sequel trilogy happens.

That’s a good way to be really. As much as I hate TLJ I have to wonder where could they have gone from there without a course correction? I’m not saying this as a hater but a legit question. It was a middle chapter that didn’t progress the story and ended story lines while not creating or furthering anything. It really did leave the last movie in a difficult spot, which is from what I’m seeing the biggest problem with TRoS, that it is too much information  and an uncohesive story because it’s trying to set up a story from nowhere.

Chris

[Mog]

^^I’ll wait until full plot details are revealed, but if the spoilers are true, TLJ should have dropped more hints.

TLJ would still have to overhaul that slow slog space battle, but a coherent overall trilogy arc should have already been in place.

Not down to every detail per se.  But at least have the major story beats and arcs down.

How you get there would have been up to creative.

[Mommar]

TFA was already flawed.  Rian Johnson removed all of the mystery boxes.  Proving there was really zero character or story in TFA.  Now if he had made an attempt to add something instead of clearly trolling EVERYBODY there might have been something salvageable by this point but that time has long since passed.  In reality there were other ways to fix things after TLJ too but JJ isn't creative enough to do anything of the sort.  This Vox subheading about TROS sums up JJ Abrams in a nutshell, "the new movie is a colossal failure of imagination."

[Roy Focker]

After reading some reviews and then looking up a few major spoilers - wow ....

In a way I can't be too mad at JJ.  The Last Jedi answered every question The Force Awakens gave us without giving any new ones.  It was "the end."  Making another sequel after would be hard for anybody.

[Chronocidal]

Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting across the board.  Since TLJ ended the trilogy one movie early, JJ had to cram two movies' worth of content into this one to make up for it.

[seti88]

Saw it and ...... well....now it seems a thousand things are happening ....as opposed to a slow star destroyer chasing down a rebel fleet..

questions are of course answered and baton passed to the next generation.

ok now get Lucas back onto 10,11,12 plz!!!

And yeah I don’t know how to describe this episode. It’s not great, not extremely terrible but...hmmm.

[Dobber]

3 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

After reading some reviews and then looking up a few major spoilers - wow ....

In a way I can't be too mad at JJ.  The Last Jedi answered every question The Force Awakens gave us without giving any new ones.  It was "the end."  Making another sequel after would be hard for anybody.

 

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting across the board.  Since TLJ ended the trilogy one movie early, JJ had to cram two movies' worth of content into this one to make up for it.

Exactly what I was saying.

Chris