Star Wars Episode IX, The Rise of Skywalker, available on home video

[Bolt]

44 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

At the core though, TFA is a paint-by-numbers photohop of the original trilogy, like a mashup of the individual movie posters that looks good at a distance. 

This was my first impression walking out of the theater. While it was great to see a new SW film, I honestly didn't feel like anything fundamentally new was being thrown out there. It was just an updated version of what we already knew, film wise. And at the same time, nothing from the EU (that mattered to me) was there either. So it was unsatisfactory on both hands.  As someone who greatly enjoyed the EU and Legacy comics, i was totally ready for something completely new.  But its not even about that. It's just about bad movie making. Most fans , to one degree or another, are super familiar with most if not all of the SW plot points. (It's been decades!) So when jj rolls out chili verde and puts it a tortilla, it's still chille verde. (I just had lunch ). No matter how cool SW is, it still has to be good, and i just don't think the last two trilogy movies are good.. i can go on and on about why, but y'all got that covered. 

[kalvasflam]

TPM was a start of the prequels, and I didn't think it was blatantly as bad, the whole prequels can be summed up in terms of just overall expectations, I think people expected way too much from their childhood favorite and when it didn't meet expectations, fans started picking up faults with it.  Whether or not people thought of the portrayals of Gungans and the Trade Federations as caricatures was perhaps more a matter of sensitivity.  To me, Jar Jar was just a pointless exercise in trying to be cute.  Comedic relief that didn't really fill the part.

TFA was certainly entertaining enough, I know people didn't like it because it was too much a carbon copy of Ep IV, but so what?  JJ was trying to pull in nostalgia.  You could argue that he was trying to introduce the franchise to a new generation, and well, it worked out fine.  TLJ however made it seem like they were deliberately tearing down the old characters to build up the new ones.  Oh and when possible, older characters should try to not so much impart their wisdom but gets chastened by youth and enthusiasm.   Honestly, it might have worked better if they just killed Luke rather than turn him cynical.

Edited August 15, 2019 by kalvasflam

[Mog]

1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

TLJ however made it seem like they were deliberately tearing down the old characters to build up the new ones.  Oh and when possible, older characters should try to not so much impart their wisdom but gets chastened by youth and enthusiasm.   Honestly, it might have worked better if they just killed Luke rather than turn him cynical.

It’s too bad that TLJ also failed so miserably at making any of the NEW main three endearing or compelling.

Their dumb actions and choices, especially Poe and Finn, resulted in getting people captured and/or killed.

Yeah, the original three also failed and lost.  But it wasn’t due to outright stupidity.

Regarding cynical Luke, I didn’t mind him getting salty and crusty in his old age.  But I do hate that he just took his ball and ran away.  As if turning his hardened dad back to the Light Side after so many years or hearing that Han was killed, the Resistance needs help, and that Leia needs backup wouldn’t spur him to get back in the fight immediately.

[renegadeleader1]

41 minutes ago, Mog said:

Their dumb actions and choices, especially Poe and Finn, resulted in getting people captured and/or killed.

Yeah, the original three also failed and lost.  But it wasn’t due to outright stupidity.

To drive the point home once again, most of the resistance dies because two idiots illegally park on a private beach, are too lazy to find the correct hacker that Maz specifically told them to find, assume any hacker will do including sleazy ones that straight up say they have no loyalty, and proceed to let him hang around while discussing the resistance's ultra top secret plan that trigged a mutiny because the purple haired idiot refused to tell anyone about it.

Edited August 15, 2019 by renegadeleader1

[Chronocidal]

39 minutes ago, renegadeleader1 said:

To drive the point home once again, most of the resistance dies because two idiots illegally park on a private beach, are too lazy to find the correct hacker that Maz specifically told them to find, assume any hacker will do including sleazy ones that straight up say they have no loyalty, and proceed to let him hang around while discussing the resistance's ultra top secret plan that trigged a mutiny because the purple haired idiot refused to tell anyone about it.

Yeahh.. I've never walked out of a movie wishing so hard that some of the main "heroes" had died from a sudden fatal application of karmic blunt trauma.

In TFA's case, I understand why people like it, and I can't blame them, because it was still fun, even if the plot was full of craters.  My issue isn't that it was a carbon copy so much that it was a cheap, flimsy, and bad-quality carbon copy that made no attempt to either hide or resolve the loose ends that left the plot feeling completely incoherent.  Stuff didn't happen because it made sense, it happened purely because the plot had to visit all those famous ANH landmarks on the nostalgia tour.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Chronocidal

[Knight26]

6 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Yeahh.. I've never walked out of a movie wishing so hard that some of the main "heroes" had died from a sudden fatal application of karmic blunt trauma.

In TFA's case, I understand why people like it, and I can't blame them, because it was still fun, even if the plot was full of craters.  My issue isn't that it was a carbon copy so much that it was a cheap, flimsy, and bad-quality carbon copy that made no attempt to either hide or resolve the loose ends that left the plot feeling completely incoherent.  Stuff didn't happen because it made sense, it happened purely because the plot had to visit all those famous ANH landmarks on the nostalgia tour.

I agree.  TFA was at least fun and you walked out of the theatre on a nostalgia high.  TFA broke down when you started to think about it and see that it was a carbon copy, and not a great one, but one that had serious potential.
TLJ I nearly walked out of and when I left I had to justify whether or not I liked it.  Even the kids left with WTF looks on their faces.  It just didn't feel right, yet you could see that there was something good hidden behind all the RJ crap.

[Knight26]

Ok, I got bored and decided to do it.

Star Wars Episode 7 Fixes

The recent discussion got me thinking about Star Wars Ep 7 could be fixed.  Overall, TFA is not a terrible movie, it is just typical of its director, slapping a shiny new coat on something that came before.  While it obvious that Star Trek 2009 is basically the original Star Wars with a Star Trek skin, it is even more obvious in TFA, which many described as a paint by number remake of Ep-4.  Though to be fair Ep-1 also hit many of the same points as Ep-4, just differently.

To start, the biggest issue with the new Trilogy is the First Order.  They come off as Empire Light. A bunch of wannabe Imperials in Cosplay who are taking it too far.  Instead, establish, in the opening crawl that they are a terrorist organization. They have crawled their way out of the rim planet by planet, taking over planet using terror tactics, before enslaving their populations and are funded by some mysterious backer(s) (Snoke and maybe others).

Also establish in the crawl, again, that Luke’s new Jedi academy was destroyed from within, forcing him to reevaluate what it means to be a Jedi and how to train the next generation.  So he goes to look for the OG Jedi temple.

 

We then move into the first scene, the attack on the Jakku Camp.  First off, make Max Von Sydow some character we already know by name, even if they are obscure or from the EU, throwing the EU fans a bone.  For now, I will call him Jansen, former member or Rogue Squadron and someone Luke would trust. We here commotion outside of the tent, Poe and Jansen look out to see a DoomTrooper, an FO Storm Trooper packed with explosives dragging along a hostage.  Jansen starts to head out but Poe stops him and points up. “You can’t save her, this is how they always begin.” Then the Doom Trooper explodes (not Disney friendly but establishes on screen their use of terrorist tactics).

The village goes into a panic and the troop ships arrive.  The rest of the scene plays out largely as before, with FOST rounding people up and some dying in the process, along with the flame troopers lighting buildings, and some people on fire.  When Finn’s buddy dies insert a couple of second flashback of someone else dying in a child’s arms, also smearing a bloody palm print on them. This will come into play later.

The next few scenes play out largely the same.  But, show some subtle force usage, unconscious, on Rey’s part.  When she swings, she swings just to far, or a gust of wind just helps her a long.  When she’s looking at two panels, she stops, leans back to think before opening one to find her prize on the first try.  Then when she turns in her salvage have her talk to Uncar Plut (sp?) and ask to rent the heavy lifter to pick up a big piece of salvage.  Pan over to show the show it and a tarped up familiar shape on edge of frame. Plut agrees, makes comments about how she always returns it the least banged up, but it is booked for the week, and how she’ll have to do the maintenance on it after as part of her rental fee, and he might even let her play around in his special ship to help him find an annoying bug in it.

Doing this establishes several things:  First, she is a scavenger and knows her way around imperial tech (they did this well in TFA and used it later in the film as well).  Second, she has some innate, if untapped and untrained, force ability. Third, in two to three lines of dialogue we’ve established that she knows how to fly and maintain ships.  The final bit gives a hint of how the Falcon is found so easily.

When Phasma talks to Ren and Hux about the FOST she mentions how the mental conditioning might be breaking down in some.  Hux says this is impossible, that his mind wipe and imprinting has been flawless. This sets up how the FO has grown the ST corp so fast, they are basically wiping the minds of people on their captured worlds and reprogramming them into whatever role they need filled.

The Finn and Poe escape plays out largely as before.  But add in how Finn has no idea how long he’s been in the FOST Corp, and has been having flashes of a life before it.  THen when they crash, show them eject, even if it’s just Poe grabbing the ejection handle and yelling. “Been nice meeting you Finn, if we survive this, meet me at the nearest spaceport!”

The next scenes again can remain largely untouched, but when Rey and Finn escape, have a quick couple lines about where they are jumping.  Rey can point to a readout and say, “Plut has an emergency escape route already in the nav computer, we just jump and wait before we head back.”  Remember, jumping into Hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops, so in the event of things going sideways Plut would likely have a hide out to head to.  While in hyperspace have Rey notice they are transmitting, and it is coming from the Hyperdrive. This leaves them distracted as she tries to root out “the bug,” and is what allows Han to find them.

The scenes aboard Han’s freighter are good world building, they can stay.  As can the bits on Maz’s world up to the destruction of the New Republic Capital.  But here is where things change. Starkiller base is just that, a base on a capture FO world.  The actual super weapon is built into a Star Destroyer. While Hux talks to this troops, he transmits to them, and breaking into the holonet, every other world, the destruction.

Back to Terror tactics.  The bow mounted super laser doesn’t destroy the planet, it is a crust cracker.  When the laser hits it shatters the planet’s crust causing the mantle to boil over and consume it.  We cut to people running in terror from oncoming lava, collapsing buildings and mountains, basically 9-11 when the towers fell.  This shocks everyone watching to the core, except the FO, as this is a highly mobile weapon. But Finn comments that it’s a bit of a glass cannon.  The main gun can only fire so many shots before they have to replace the Kyber Crystal at its core, and that is done at Starkiller base.

The FO then shows up, they have the battle on Maz’s world where Rey is captured.  Biggest change here, is that TR-8R is actually Phasma. This gives her character more to do, and also intimidates Finn more, plus it explains what she does later better, she is already hurt.

Leia and the Resistance show up and that is when Finn reveals the issue with the new Crust Cracker super laser to them.  They decide to mount a two pronged attack. Han with Chewie, Finn and a Commando team go after the Kyber Crystal mine on Star Killer base, as well as the shield generator that the Star Destroyer is within while making repairs.  Meanwhile Poe’s squadrons (yes with multiple fighter types) and starship backup standby to take out the Star Destroyer, or are set to protect the Resistance base while the Star Destroyer comes to attack it.

During Rey’s interrogation by Kylo we hear Luke’s voice for the first time.  “Remember, when you open a docking port into someone’s mind you leave yours open as well.”  Rey reacts like she hears this and resists Kylo’s mental attacks. When he leaves we again here Luke’s voice.  “And don’t forget to close it when you leave.” This is a subtle thing, but it helps to justify where Rey learns all these force powers so quickly, she went tromping around inside Kylo’s memories, not deep, but just into how to use the Force, and this can explain her motives in the next movie on how to save him.  She felt the good within him.

The show downs on Starkiller can go as before for the most part.  When Han, Chewie and Finn attack Phasma, she is already injured, and show Chewie hurting her more and actually cracking her helmet open slightly.  She lowers the shields and they get access to the crystal mine where they can deploy charges. Rey is rescued and Kylo confronted, Han killed, etc…

In orbit the Resistance goes up against the Star Destroyer.  It deploys its super laser killing several ships, but they notice that when it does the forward shields drop.  They lure it into attacking again and that is when Poe Strikes. He dumps his whole load of Proton Torpedoes into the super laser as it prepares to fire, shattering the focus and causing it to explode and the blast to glance against Starkiller base.  The Star Destroyer gets knocked out of orbit as a result and falls towards Starkiller Base.

Rey, Finn and Kylo have their lightsaber battle.  Finn gets his butt handed to him immediately, but make Kylo’s wound far more obvious, though the thing with him pounding on his side was a great touch.  When Rey gets the lightsaber we have another brief series of flashbacks, of it in use, in Anakin’s hands, Luke’s, and even see some of young Kylo Ren’s training.  They engage in battle, but we here subtle whispers in multiple voices (Luke, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Palp, Vader, even Kylo and Snoke) “block up, block down, swing up, forward strike.”  Have these so low that you wouldn’t really hear them in theatre, but it is the saber, and the door into Kylo’s mind. He realizes the latter and moves to shut the door, closing his eyes.  That is when, loud enough for the audience, we here “DO IT!” and she strikes his face, knocking Kylo back, disabling him. And yes, the ground is still breaking up due to the exploding mine and Star Destroyer crash and super laser near miss.

The end goes as before with the mini-celebration at the Resistance Base, Hux picking up Kylo to take him to Snoke and then Rey heading off to meet Luke with R2-D2.

Subtle changes, and while it still is basically Ep-IV it is following the trilogy opening style established by Ep-1 and 4.  But, we have established the FO as a real force to be reckoned with, more so than in the original. We have made Rey not a Mary Sue, but a quick learner with skills that she had already developed, but needed to be honed.  We have shown how Death Star Tech has been developed into an even more terrifying and mobile weapon, though still with some serious flaws. We also get to actually hear Luke, even if we just get a glimpse of him at the end.

[Seto Kaiba]

59 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

The recent discussion got me thinking about Star Wars Ep 7 could be fixed.

Remember to always spay or neuter your screenwriters.

(In all seriousness, I thought screening it in theaters with liquor licenses was the fix.)

[Bolt]

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(In all seriousness, I thought screening it in theaters with liquor licenses was the fix.)

It's been helping with these movies..

[kalvasflam]

9 hours ago, renegadeleader1 said:

To drive the point home once again, most of the resistance dies because two idiots illegally park on a private beach, are too lazy to find the correct hacker that Maz specifically told them to find, assume any hacker will do including sleazy ones that straight up say they have no loyalty, and proceed to let him hang around while discussing the resistance's ultra top secret plan that trigged a mutiny because the purple haired idiot refused to tell anyone about it.

The resistance died and lived because of very idiotically contrived plot points.

Lived: because the FO just couldn't launch swarms of thousands of Ties to swamp and kill the few pitiful ships left.  Yet somehow, oddly, Kylo managed to do it.  No, let's drag this f'ing thing out with a boring chase till there is no fuel.  Oh, and by the way, why call Ren back?  Cause that bad boy, asides from not killing his mother, could've survived out there indefinitely.  

Died: because... aside from all of the reasons mentioned above, they are also hampered by the fact that they suddenly had only fuel left for one jump, and their own stupidity.  Seriously, have you guys ever heard of splitting up your forces, you had like four ships, just go in four different directions.  Yes, I'm sure there is some contrived reason why the splitting of forces wouldn't work, but fuel for massive starships had never been a problem until this movie, so this either meant Leia or her underlings were incompetent, or yet another contrived reason to have a little drama. 

[Bolt]

I wonder if the "allies from the outer rim" will ever show up to help out jj and save the next movie. he could use some Hutt help here..

[Chronocidal]

22 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

The resistance died and lived because of very idiotically contrived plot points.

Lived: because the FO just couldn't launch swarms of thousands of Ties to swamp and kill the few pitiful ships left.  Yet somehow, oddly, Kylo managed to do it.  No, let's drag this f'ing thing out with a boring chase till there is no fuel.  Oh, and by the way, why call Ren back?  Cause that bad boy, asides from not killing his mother, could've survived out there indefinitely.  

It's worse than that.  They lived because the First Order didn't have the tactical capacity to win a game of "Connect Two."  They fired on the empty base, instead of the ship everyone was escaping on.  By all rights, the movie could have ended in the first five minutes as the Resistance cruiser evaporated in orbit.

The worst part about that?  Plus or minus a few characters, we still wound up in almost that exact same freakin' place after two hours of the most boring chase scene in cinematic history.  Everyone in that movie was drowning in their own stupidity.  "Watch as the fighters of the Resistance give everything they have in a desperate struggle to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!"  

Seriously.  If all the important characters had been the last to land on the cruiser, with the potential to still escape in whatever smaller shuttle they were on, you could literally delete everything between the evacuation and the fight at the old base, and lose absolutely nothing, while making the situation actually feel dire, instead of being poetic justice for the idiots who caused it.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Chronocidal

[Seto Kaiba]

27 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

Lived: because the FO just couldn't launch swarms of thousands of Ties to swamp and kill the few pitiful ships left.  Yet somehow, oddly, Kylo managed to do it.

To be fair, this is the exact same f*ckup that Darth Vader made in A New Hope...

Vader and Tarkin had command of an incredibly powerful battle station that supposedly had something on the order of SEVEN THOUSAND starfighters at its disposal, as well as a few docked Star Destroyers.  

The total number of starfighters launched to counter and contain the multiple fighter squadrons in the Rebel attack force?  THREE.

The total number of ships and starfighters launched to contain the Rebel base while the Death Star got into position?  ZERO.

The entire Star Wars series is only possible because the Imperials are juggling the idiot ball at any and every opportunity.  Mostly, it takes the form of believing themselves to be totally invincible despite all evidence to the contrary (e.g. Scarif in Rogue One, the Death Star in A New Hope, the Death Star II: Sith Boogaloo in Return of the Jedi), though they moonlight as bumblers who screw up because the threat of having to explain themselves to Darth Vader has them so terrified they don't think rationally or behave professionally (e.g. every Imperial officer in Empire Strikes Back) or are so busy backstabbing and undermining each other in the name of political point-scoring that they do more favors to the Rebellion than themselves (e.g. Krennic and Tarkin in Rogue One).

The First Order, as an Imperial remnant, are just keeping the grand tradition of Imperial incompetence alive and well into the future.

 

27 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

Died: because... aside from all of the reasons mentioned above, they are also hampered by the fact that they suddenly had only fuel left for one jump, and their own stupidity.  Seriously, have you guys ever heard of splitting up your forces, you had like four ships, just go in four different directions.  Yes, I'm sure there is some contrived reason why the splitting of forces wouldn't work, but fuel for massive starships had never been a problem until this movie, so this either meant Leia or her underlings were incompetent, or yet another contrived reason to have a little drama. 

Was it the first example?  IIRC there was something about the hyperdrive leaking in The Phantom Menace that restricted the range of their hyperspace jump until they could no longer jump all the way to Coruscant, forcing them to divert to Tatooine.

(I mean, they never say what the hyperdrive is leaking, but still...)

I'd expect the reason they didn't split their forces was that they had one cruiser and three escorts.  The vast majority of their forces were on the cruiser, the only ship big enough to hold them all, so splitting up would just give the First Order three weak escorts to ignore and one now-alone vulnerable cruiser carrying most of the Resistance.

[GabrielV]

3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The total number of starfighters launched to counter and contain the multiple fighter squadrons in the Rebel attack force?  THREE.

The total number of ships and starfighters launched to contain the Rebel base while the Death Star got into position?  ZERO.

Did you mean to say squadrons instead of starfighters?

I'm pretty sure more than three fighters get launched to deal with the Rebel squadrons attacking the Death Star.  Vader and his two wingmen make three.  Even before he launches, there's an explicit shot with several TIEs (8?) swooping down on the rebels.

Not that it really negates the point, but it was more than three.

In terms of justifying it, Tarkin was extremely overconfident.  He was putting up token resistance to what he perceived as a futile attack.  He never seemed to even be paying any attention to the rebel attack on the Death Star.  Vader was the only one who took it seriously and took action.  So yeah, he was pretty silly in wanting to kill the attackers himself, but through the series he's pretty hands on.

 

 

[Chronocidal]

I know things changed a little conceptually from the details given in Rogue One, but I really don't think Tarkin had any reason to suspect there was any chance that anything could go wrong with the station.  Was he blinded by confidence?  Absolutely, but then, when you get in your car to drive, do you worry that a random flying squirrel is going to get jammed into your radiator and plug a coolant line, causing your engine to catch fire?

From what I recall, it wasn't actually even Tarkin who ordered any fighters launched at all.  I think the only fighters that launched were the ones under Vader's direct command, from his own destroyer.  That may have been an EU-ism, but it's what's stuck in my mind for some time.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Chronocidal

[GabrielV]

7 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

From what I recall, it wasn't actually even Tarkin who ordered any fighters launched at all.  I think the only fighters that launched were the ones under Vader's direct command, from his own destroyer.  That may have been an EU-ism, but it's what's stuck in my mind for some time.

I think you're right, at least in that Vader is the only one who gives the order to launch and Tarkin is never involved.  It's been a while since I watched Star Wars, but I think some officer comes up to Vader in the hall, and Vader replies to get the crews to their fighters.  Then later, Vader grabs the two other pilots and goes out to do things himself.

[Seto Kaiba]

18 minutes ago, GabrielV said:

Did you mean to say squadrons instead of starfighters?

I'm pretty sure more than three fighters get launched to deal with the Rebel squadrons attacking the Death Star.  Vader and his two wingmen make three.  Even before he launches, there's an explicit shot with several TIEs (8?) swooping down on the rebels.

They don't really accomplish much... Vader's and his two wingmen do all the actual work, but the point is taken.  It was more than three... but still far, FAR, FAR less than the seven thousand they could've and would've mustered to squash the Rebel attack outright if they weren't holding the idiot ball.  If they'd taken their jobs seriously, Vader and Tarkin would still be alive, the Death Star would've blown Yavin IV to bits, and Lucas would've needed a rather different title for A New Hope.

(The Emperor actually did it right, and would've won outright in Return of the Jedi if he hadn't let his complexity addiction force him to grab the idiot ball and fail to properly secure the perimeter of the shield generator base on Endor.)

 

6 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I know things changed a little conceptually from the details given in Rogue One, but I really don't think Tarkin had any reason to suspect there was any chance that anything could go wrong with the station.  Was he blinded by confidence?  Absolutely, but then, when you get in your car to drive, do you worry that a random flying squirrel is going to get jammed into your radiator and plug a coolant line, causing your engine to catch fire?

Tarkin was told point-blank that there'd been a security leak at the facility that developed the Death Star, and instead of fixing the problem used it to undermine a rival.  He knew going into the Yavin operation that the Rebels had the Death Star plans he'd been previously told probably contained a potentially fatal intentional vulnerability and makes ZERO effort to protect the station.  Then he's warned mid-battle that the Rebels are definitely onto something, and blows it off.

That's not a one-in-a-billion freak accident, he was told several times there was a serious threat and he ignored it or dismissed it out of hand.  If you got a recall notice saying that your car has a flaw that could cause it to spontaneously explode, a sensible person would get that recall taken care of straightaway.  They wouldn't toss the recall notice unopened and then act surprised when the car blew up and killed them.

[Chronocidal]

Fair, though I think the severity only became clear as a result of the details in Rogue One.  Ignoring that for the moment, the warning he received in ANH always felt like a precautionary warning of "Oh, they're actually targeting something that's distantly connected to a critical system."  He was warned of the possibility that the Rebels might be able to find a weakness, not that they might have been informed about a known vulnerability.

It has been a while since I watched Rogue One again though, so this is as good a reason as any to review that.  I forget, was it Krennick that told him about the flaw built into the reactor?  If that was the case, given the circumstances of Tarkin's takeover of the project, I actually wouldn't be surprised if Tarkin dismissed that as sour grapes, assuming Krennick was just fishing for some excuse to make Tarkin think he was indispensable.

[kalvasflam]

seem to recall in TPM , it was damage to the hyperdrive, and they needed some parts, which is why hippie Jinn went off to barter for parts.

[GabrielV]

20 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

seem to recall in TPM , it was damage to the hyperdrive, and they needed some parts, which is why hippie Jinn went off to barter for parts.

Initially the dialogue says the Hyperdrive is "leaking".  Later, Qui Gon is at Watto's trying to purchase a "hyperdrive generator" as a replacement.  

The damage was something akin to a really expensive flat tire.  They had enough air in it to get to Tatooine, but they couldn't air it back up.  They needed a new tire.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Fair, though I think the severity only became clear as a result of the details in Rogue One.  Ignoring that for the moment, the warning he received in ANH always felt like a precautionary warning of "Oh, they're actually targeting something that's distantly connected to a critical system."  He was warned of the possibility that the Rebels might be able to find a weakness, not that they might have been informed about a known vulnerability.

Even then, he's still an idiot for not responding to the Rebel assault with maximum force.

Tarkin and Vader had a comically overwhelming strategic and tactical advantage and didn't use it.  If the Empire had anything like a competent leader at Yavin, that would've been the end of Star Wars right then and there.  If they'd just blown Yavin itself up with the Death Star's stupidly huge planet-killing gun they would've destroyed the entire moon the Rebel base was on as collateral damage without ever exposing their battle station to harm.  Or they could've just sent an actual counterattack out to leverage their massive numerical advantage, wiped the entire rebel force out without breaking a sweat, and either captured the base or just blown it up at their leisure.

To reverse a remark from Spaceballs... "Good will always triumph because Evil is dumb".

[jvmacross]

On 8/13/2019 at 4:11 PM, Chronocidal said:

Hm... obviously can be taken with a few billion grains of salt.. but the similarities might run even deeper than I first thought.

Suddenly Threepio's red arm makes a lot of really annoying sense.

Does not surprise me in the slightest about the merchandise kerfuffle though.  

So if true.....Disney just gave up and went with making Lucas richer again?

http://www.cinelinx.com/movie-news/movie-reviews-movie-news/exclusive-ewan-mcgregor-signs-on-for-obi-wan-kenobi-return/

[Chronocidal]

Oh they absolutely took great joy in being dismissive of any effort the Rebels could make at taking them down.  They did seem to learn at least a smidge by ESB, but I think a good deal of the hubris on parade was due to Tarkin and the Emperor enjoying toying with the Rebellion, and teasing them out to defeat them in as spectacular a manner as possible.

On the other hand, now I'm curious.  What would have happened if they used the Death Star on the gas giant?

[Bolt]

6 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

So if true.....Disney just gave up and went with making Lucas richer again?

http://www.cinelinx.com/movie-news/movie-reviews-movie-news/exclusive-ewan-mcgregor-signs-on-for-obi-wan-kenobi-return/

But this makes complete sense to me. A movie about Obi-Wan will sell tickets. And right now Disney needs a home run. They're playing  money ball...

[Chronocidal]

So.... the pit of similarities just gets deeper.  Disney just picked their "Picard."

[Dynaman]

59 minutes ago, Bolt said:

But this makes complete sense to me. A movie about Obi-Wan will sell tickets. And right now Disney needs a home run. They're playing  money ball...

People thought that about a movie about Han Solo too.

[Dobber]

9 hours ago, Bolt said:

It's been helping with these movies..

I think you’re confusing spaying and neutering with lobotomizing! Lol

Chris

[Dobber]

29 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

People thought that about a movie about Han Solo too.

They did??? Never heard 1 person say they WANTED a Han Solo movie

Chris

[Dynaman]

I've heard plenty say they DON'T want a Kenobi movie.  Watching him pound sand on Tattoine is exactly a thrill ride. 

[Negotiator]

I want an Obi-Wan movie so long as it's ewan.  He doesn't age anyway but better cash on him now.  The brand isnt doing so great.   A solo movie with old Harrison I believe would have been successful.  

[renegadeleader1]

Back before the dark times, before the Last Jedi news of potential Obi Wan Kenobi and Han Solo movies were met with general optimism. Then TLJ dropped and we saw who was cast as Han Solo. In a moment it was as if millions of voices screamed out in terror and were suddenly silenced. Any faith in Disney doing anything right went right into the trash compactor.

[GabrielV]

I didn't want a Han Solo movie.  For one, there's no point in Han Solo without Harrison Ford. For two, Han Solo's entire arc is already shown in the OT.  There's no need for anything else.

I did end up liking Solo.  But it is remarkably devoid of Han Solo.  As I've already said numerous times before, when I view it as a Star Wars rip off movie like Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone, it's OK.  When viewed as a movie in the Star Wars universe with the legendary Han Solo, it fails in every way it can.

I was excited earlier when I saw the mention the Obi-Wan project with Ewan McGregor had been revived.  I definitely think there's one more possible movie where a story could be told about Obi Wan.  Possibly keying into that line about how he used to believe there was still good in Vader, implying that he may have tried to redeem Anakin somewhere along the line.

But there's not a series there, especially a modern "epic" (read: padded and overlong) series.  I was on board for a singular movie, but a TV series is not something I think has any chance of being decent at all.

I guess it just shows that Disney can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  They keep on sabotaging everything related to Star Wars.  An Ewan McGregor Obi Wan movie could have been great.  An Ewan McGregor Obi Wan TV series is must skip TV.

 

[ErikElvis]

I’d like to see obi wan chopping arms off in the desert. 

[anime52k8]

This Board really needs an 'ignore thread' or 'ignore tag'  feature. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by anime52k8

[Mog]

The only thing I can think of that would be of any interest for Obi's post-ROTS life would be a story with A'Sharad Hett (run a parallel story where you show the guy's origin, maybe some adventures with Obi, and their eventual confrontation on Tatooine).

No way in hell Obi abandons his post or does anything to attract any unnecessary attention to himself.

Also Rebels already had the perfect endcap for Obi's time in the desert, and there's really no way to do this any better:

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Mog
Because "desserts" are delicious, but Obi's in the DESERT.