Star Wars Episode IX, The Rise of Skywalker, available on home video

[tekering]

11 hours ago, jvmacross said:

 

 

 

Interesting how, while Disney remakes all their animated films in live-action, they remake Star Wars with animation...  

[Thom]

11 hours ago, JetJockey said:

I gave the Death Troopers in Rogue One a pass. But these Sith Troopers are too silly. I don't think any of the Storm Trooper designs in the new trilogy are there to do anything other than sell figures or statues for people that need every version. We had people hyping that chrome female Storm Trooper and she did next to nothing in two movies. I guess she's finally dead but I wouldn't be surprised if she makes a come back in this third movie.

I want her to die having done something! The cut scene from the TLJ fight has Finn exposing her as a coward to her troops, before she 'dies' in the fall, but there was such a build up to the menace of the character that was never delivered. Instead, it's wiped away when she surrendered Starkiller Base's defense with barely a whimper, that she just turned into a big disappointment.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Thom

[jvmacross]

3 hours ago, tekering said:

Interesting how, while Disney remakes all their animated films in live-action, they remake Star Wars with animation...  

Interesting observation.....and apparently keeping the racial makeup of the main characters apparently only applies to the conversion from animation to live-action.....

[electric indigo]

Before we forget how really well-written the OT was 

 

[JetJockey]

12 hours ago, Thom said:

I want her to die having done something! The cut scene from the TLJ fight has Finn exposing her as a coward to her troops, before she 'dies' in the fall, but there was such a build up to the menace of the character that was never delivered. Instead, it's wiped away when she surrendered Starkiller Base's defense with barely a whimper, that she just turned into a big disappointment.

I didn't know that. I pretty much checked out on Finn's part of the story around there. Especially when the droid showed up to save the day.

[tekering]

3 minutes ago, JetJockey said:

I pretty much checked out on Finn's part of the story around there.

I didn't even make it through Canto Bight.  

By the time the Supremacy had gotten sliced in half by "weaponized lightspeed," I figured Rian Johnson was just trolling the audience.  

[Graham]

Canto Bight was a struggle to get through.

[sketchley]

Canto Bight has one positive:  can you find this guy in the casino?

 

He's kind of like the thrown shoe in Return of the Jedi—once you know where to look...

[Thom]

9 hours ago, JetJockey said:

I didn't know that. I pretty much checked out on Finn's part of the story around there. Especially when the droid showed up to save the day.

You know things are getting 'rough' when someone shows up in a spurting bubble suit...

[Fortress_Maximus]

Hard pass!  At this point DIS has destroyed the SW storylines enough for me that I no longer care to invest the time, money and energy to support any projects.  Far too many SJW, LBGTQ, and Feminazi agendas being forced into the films.

[Chronocidal]

You don't even have to go that far down the political cesspool to hit that point, honestly.  I just personally can't recall any other franchise where I actually wanted the majority of the main characters to die horribly in a mass application of karmic comeuppance.

If the entire EU hadn't been trashed, I'd be rooting for the Yuuzhan Vong.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Chronocidal

[Seto Kaiba]

On 7/11/2019 at 11:42 AM, Thom said:

I want her to die having done something! The cut scene from the TLJ fight has Finn exposing her as a coward to her troops, before she 'dies' in the fall, but there was such a build up to the menace of the character that was never delivered. Instead, it's wiped away when she surrendered Starkiller Base's defense with barely a whimper, that she just turned into a big disappointment.

Eh... Disney deliberately set out to make Captain Phasma into the new trilogy's Boba Fett, and they succeeded.

Not necessarily in the way they intended to, but there's quality irony in that Phasma became the exact same thing Boba Fett was in the original trilogy... an alleged badass in a nice suit of armor whose badassery is purely informed ability, and who goes down faster than a blind drunk with an inner ear infection and one short leg.  Phasma actually went out with more dignity than Fett, having gotten some actual menacing of the protagonists in and even a short fight, where Fett got off one shot that did zero actual harm before a blind man accidentally knocked him into the mouth of an anus monster.

 

14 hours ago, tekering said:

By the time the Supremacy had gotten sliced in half by "weaponized lightspeed," I figured Rian Johnson was just trolling the audience.  

Do people really have an issue with that part?  Honestly, weaponized FTL happens so infrequently in sci-fi despite being terrifyingly obvious for its destructive potential that I thought it was actually a pretty awesome sequence.

(It's the only film example I can think of, while the only literary example that leaps to mind is in a Warhammer 40,000: Horus Heresy novel that lavishes an entire chapter on a suicidal near-lightspeed ramming attack.)

 

 

5 hours ago, sketchley said:

Canto Bight has one positive:  can you find this guy in the casino?

... I don't recall seeing any strategically-shaved rats in wigs, but I'll look again. 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

You don't even have to go that far down the political cesspool to hit that point, honestly.  I just personally can't recall any other franchise where I actually wanted the majority of the main characters to die horribly in a mass application of karmic comeuppance.

That's what happens when you advertise almost your entire cast on the basis of what anti-discrimination protected class the actor/actress belongs to.   

Once the producers make the character all about the actor's [race/gender/sexual orientation/fondness for small yappy dogs] the writers are paralyzed by the producers unwillingness to do anything that might offend the members of that [race/gender/sexual orientation/small yappy dog lobby] and the character becomes a flat, bland, stock character who can't be developed very far because they're not allowed to make significant mistakes or have significant flaws.  It isn't even a product of the politics in the story, just the ones in the studio.

[Dynaman]

> Phasma became the exact same thing Boba Fett was in the original trilogy... an alleged badass in a nice suit of armor whose badassery is purely informed ability

At least BF captured Han before getting thrown in the Sarlac..  CP just talked smack before getting thrown in the trash.  Then blown up.  Maybe she is actually like that guy from the third Mad Max movie, the one that just doesn't die.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, Dynaman said:

> Phasma became the exact same thing Boba Fett was in the original trilogy... an alleged badass in a nice suit of armor whose badassery is purely informed ability

At least BF captured Han before getting thrown in the Sarlac.. 

Boba Fett had Solo literally handed to him on a matte grey platter as a living freezie pop by Darth freaking Vader and his Stormtroopers... he captured NOTHING.

If Fett isn't lunch for a colossal sandy anus, someone oughta ship those two... they can bond over how ineffectual they are.

 

Just now, Dynaman said:

CP just talked smack before getting thrown in the trash.  Then blown up.  Maybe she is actually like that guy from the third Mad Max movie, the one that just doesn't die.

She's actually a clone... it's like the Weyouns in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.  Every time one gets killed they just pop the cork on a fresh one and hope the law of averages is on their side.

[Mommar]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Boba Fett had Solo literally handed to him on a matte grey platter as a living freezie pop by Darth freaking Vader and his Stormtroopers... he captured NOTHING.

Fett was smart enough to know Hans ploy to evade Imperial sensors, hid himself in the wave of garbage which would obscure his presence from Han and then figured out where they were headed so the Imperials could get there first.  The last bit was off camera.  But at least you got a glimmer of his talent before they tanked it in RotJ.  Phasma was nothing but a cool looking suit who didn’t have a hint of ability.  I think the mild exchange between him Vader and Fett might have raised his profile too.  If Vader has to lecture you and hasn’t choked you out you must do enough right to be useful.

Lucas was baffled at his popularity as well.  I think he unceremoniously killed him in RotJ just to spite the people who liked him for no damn good reason.  I know when I was in school I could never figure out why the other kids liked him so much.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Mommar

[jenius]

I don't think Lucas should be characterized as being baffled by Fett. Before ESB he made an animated special featuring Fett to make him seem cooler than he was in the show. He wanted Fett to be liked. 

[Chronocidal]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Do people really have an issue with that part?  Honestly, weaponized FTL happens so infrequently in sci-fi despite being terrifyingly obvious for its destructive potential that I thought it was actually a pretty awesome sequence.

(It's the only film example I can think of, while the only literary example that leaps to mind is in a Warhammer 40,000: Horus Heresy novel that lavishes an entire chapter on a suicidal near-lightspeed ramming attack.)

The sequence was fairly cool, and I don't have much against the idea, but what it does is basically open a super-massive plot hole, in that if you don't at least give the bare minimum exposition about why it's never been used before, you make the entire universe look stupid for never using one of the most effective weapons imaginable in all of those other situations where it would have been amazingly helpful.

In the end, it just becomes your typical "Reed Richards Invention For This Week," where, despite it having existed for hundreds of years, has never been used before, and will never be spoken of or used again, no matter how useful it would be in any given situation.

Quote

That's what happens when you advertise almost your entire cast on the basis of what anti-discrimination protected class the actor/actress belongs to.   

Once the producers make the character all about the actor's [race/gender/sexual orientation/fondness for small yappy dogs] the writers are paralyzed by the producers unwillingness to do anything that might offend the members of that [race/gender/sexual orientation/small yappy dog lobby] and the character becomes a flat, bland, stock character who can't be developed very far because they're not allowed to make significant mistakes or have significant flaws.  It isn't even a product of the politics in the story, just the ones in the studio.

See, wouldn't even go that far.  I just want them all dead because they're directly responsible for over 1000 people dying for no good reason.

I'd think anyone directly responsible for a mutiny, and the subsequent leaking of classified information that resulted in the pointless and stupid death of 99% of the remaining personnel aboard a military vessel would be easy grounds for execution by whatever happens to be the most convenient method at the moment/nearest blunt object.

This has nothing to do with actors, casting or any other nonsense.  It falls purely on the writers.  The characters deserve to die for what they've done.  I want them gone purely as proof that someone involved in the franchise understands that actions have consequences.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Chronocidal

[Mommar]

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

The sequence was fairly cool, and I don't have much against the idea, but what it does is basically open a super-massive plot hole, in that if you don't at least give the bare minimum exposition about why it's never been used before, you make the entire universe look stupid for never using one of the most effective weapons imaginable in all of those other situations where it would have been amazingly helpful.

In the end, it just becomes your typical "Reed Richards Invention For This Week," where, despite it having existed for hundreds of years, has never been used before, and will never be spoken of or used again, no matter how useful it would be in any given situation.

See, wouldn't even go that far.  I just want them all dead because they're directly responsible for over 1000 people dying for no good reason.

I'd think anyone directly responsible for a mutiny, and the subsequent leaking of classified information that resulted in the pointless and stupid death of 99% of the remaining personnel aboard a military vessel would be easy grounds for execution by whatever happens to be the most convenient method at the moment/nearest blunt object.

This has nothing to do with actors, casting or any other nonsense.  It falls purely on the writers.  The characters deserve to die for what they've done.  I want them gone purely as proof that someone involved in the franchise understands that actions have consequences.

One could argue it’s precisely because they were too busy “writing” representation characters to bother paying attention to actual characterization/plot. 

[Dynaman]

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

The sequence was fairly cool, and I don't have much against the idea, but what it does is basically open a super-massive plot hole, in that if you don't at least give the bare minimum exposition about why it's never been used before, you make the entire universe look stupid for never using one of the most effective weapons imaginable in all of those other situations where it would have been amazingly helpful.

One example of that is that little thing called a Death Star - even a moderate sized ship could have taken it out with that lightspeed ram maneuver.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

Fett was smart enough to know Hans ploy to evade Imperial sensors, hid himself in the wave of garbage which would obscure his presence from Han and then figured out where they were headed so the Imperials could get there first.  The last bit was off camera.  But at least you got a glimmer of his talent before they tanked it in RotJ.

Really, I wouldn't call that a glimmer of talent.  Han Solo is no strategic mastermind, and he isn't even a particularly good smuggler.  He took advantage of Imperial sloppiness caused by the Imperials fearing for their lives thanks to their boss's lack of people skills.  Fett was just able to think more clearly than the Imperials because he knew he had job security... Vader wasn't going to just kill an expensive contractor without a very good reason.  That Fett was able to spot the Falcon isn't a reflection on his skills so much as it's a reflection on how Lord Vader's toxic management style hurt the performance of those under him.  They were all too worried about upsetting him to think clearly.

 

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

Phasma was nothing but a cool looking suit who didn’t have a hint of ability.  

Phasma was established from the start to be the chief Drill Sergeant Nasty for the First Order, and we actually see her operate in that capacity... so I wouldn't say she doesn't show a hint of ability.  It's just that the hints she shows aren't exactly awesome since the only thing impressive about drill sergeants is the volume level at which they dispense harsh invectives.

 

 

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

The sequence was fairly cool, and I don't have much against the idea, but what it does is basically open a super-massive plot hole, in that if you don't at least give the bare minimum exposition about why it's never been used before, you make the entire universe look stupid for never using one of the most effective weapons imaginable in all of those other situations where it would have been amazingly helpful.

IMO, the reasons why that kind of thing would not be widely used would be obvious... it's hideously dangerous to use anywhere in the vicinity of an inhabited star system since you're basically spraying the area with relativistic (if not superluminal) shrapnel that could intercept the orbit of a planet or the course of a ship and shred it just as easily as the initial impact shreds the target.  Then there's the concern about the shrapnel that DOESN'T hit something immediately forming navigational hazards in the future.  Also, don't ships generally have to sit still for a bit to jump to lightspeed?  And IIRC they pop into hyperspace almost immediately after, which would make the window for executing a tactic like that very narrow.  So it's strategically difficult, probably politically highly unwelcome, and probably a war crime too... so not the kind of thing you'd want to attempt if you want to keep the general public on your side.

 

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

This has nothing to do with actors, casting or any other nonsense.  It falls purely on the writers.  The characters deserve to die for what they've done.  I want them gone purely as proof that someone involved in the franchise understands that actions have consequences.

No, that's my entire point... these characters aren't allowed to be wrong and cannot experience consequences for their actions due to their status as representational characters.  That's how we keep getting these ridiculous plot tumors.  Canto Bight happened to facilitate Holdo bravely taking command of the Resistance so she could bravely commit suicide to bravely save the day (bravely) because her character sheet just says "brave woman leader".  Likewise Finn and whatshername needing to go to Canto Bight on their bold mission to pass blanket judgement on a city full of people they've never met for the crime of not being wholly invested in the struggle most of the galaxy doesn't even know is going on and then bravely trip right at the finish line so they could have a big climactic battle where Finn could confront his abuser and b*tchslap her into a pit before helping Rey escape.  All those people had to die so our heroes who haven't learned a damn thing can continue being heroes and boldly recreate the Rebellion now that there isn't a Resistance getting underfoot.

[Mog]

14 hours ago, Mommar said:

Fett was smart enough to know Hans ploy to evade Imperial sensors, hid himself in the wave of garbage which would obscure his presence from Han and then figured out where they were headed so the Imperials could get there first.  The last bit was off camera.  But at least you got a glimmer of his talent before they tanked it in RotJ.  Phasma was nothing but a cool looking suit who didn’t have a hint of ability.  I think the mild exchange between him Vader and Fett might have raised his profile too.  If Vader has to lecture you and hasn’t choked you out you must do enough right to be useful.

Or to put it another way, Boba had enough sense to distinguish the Millennium Falcon from trash;  Phasma was tossed out as trash by that same Falcon crew.

[ErikElvis]

I believe the difference between boba fett and phasma is they tried to MAKE a boba fett. Boba fett just happened. 

[jenius]

Again, they made a cartoon for Boba before ESB... They tried to make him cool.

Edited July 13, 2019 by jenius

[Kanedas Bike]

Interesting sentiments being bantered about, agreed 1000000000% that Phasma was a complete and total waste of a character and/or story line. Fett always had a badass appeal to him, mostly because there was an air of mystery so as little kids/teenagers/young adults we made assumptions about how bad ass he was.

Could be my own bias but I don't read into the Character X, Y or Z is a Social Justice "this" or a forced representation of one group or another, BUT, I'm firmly in agreement of representation of peoples across the entire spectrum is good. 

I also 1000000000% agree that a lot of the decisions made by Poe, Finn and others were flat out stupid in TLJ, almost along the lines of Prometheus-level stupidity, but what's done is done at this point. I attribute it to bad writing vs. the characters being untouchable because they are societal representations of one group or another. I mean dumb writing is dumb writing, there's no need to make it about anything more than that.

I just hope that Episode IX can redeem those characters in some way or another.

-b.

[ErikElvis]

1 hour ago, jenius said:

Again, they made a cartoon for Boba before ESB... They tried to make him cool.

Oh wasn’t aware of that. Well then. Manufactured coolness it is.  But it worked better for boba. 

[Dynaman]

1 minute ago, ErikElvis said:

Oh wasn’t aware of that. Well then. Manufactured coolness it is.  But it worked better for boba. 

Ignoring the fact that the Star Wars Holiday Special (where the cartoon was shown) is one of the levels of Hell; Bobba Fett at least did something useful.  Phasma never (never mind) did.

[ErikElvis]

2 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Ignoring the fact that the Star Wars Holiday Special (where the cartoon was shown) is one of the levels of Hell; Bobba Fett at least did something useful.  Phasma never (never mind) did.

Haha ok. I may have to see this cartoon. 

[Dynaman]

7 minutes ago, ErikElvis said:

Haha ok. I may have to see this cartoon. 

To quote the RiffTrax riff on it "there is not enough pot even in Modesto for this to have been made"  Applies to the whole special but equally well to the cartoon alone.  It makes the sequels (and prequels) look like fine art.

[Bolt]

Plasma was and is a poor imitation of BF. Period. She had a lot of potential as a character and they thoroughly blew it.  But that could be said about most of the new characters and ole Skywalker as well, at this point.

JJ would have to be a genius and a magician to pull this bloated, dead mynock out of the trash compactor and make it look good..

I’m sticking with KOTOR and the EU. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Bolt

[jenius]

You guys should check out the Star Wars Holiday Special 1978 and be introduced to Boba Fett.

[Seto Kaiba]

52 minutes ago, jenius said:

You guys should check out the Star Wars Holiday Special 1978 and be introduced to Boba Fett.

I'll bear that in mind if I'm ever planning a vacation to the 8th circle of hell.

[jvmacross]

20 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'll bear that in mind if I'm ever planning a vacation to the 8th circle of hell.

.....enjoy the in-flight movie!

 

[Black Valkyrie]

 

Star Wars Holiday Special is worth watching for the introduction of Boba Fett. 

 

[ErikElvis]

Ok just watched the boba cartoon. Kinda terrible. I’m not sure I’d say they were trying to make him cool. 

[jenius]

44 minutes ago, ErikElvis said:

Ok just watched the boba cartoon. Kinda terrible. I’m not sure I’d say they were trying to make him cool. 

You can deny it, you can swear it was awful and ineffective, but that's what they were trying to do.