jenius Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 Save explained BW has nothing to do with WF one day licenses. CW doesn't have a public history with BW... But they did say they licensed with HG for their original tomcats because BW wasn't interested (or wouldn't respond at all). Once you go HG though, you can't go back.
JB0 Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 11 hours ago, jvmacross said: Nah......if AutoArt can release a NOT Mad Max Interceptor......Calibre Wings can release a NOT M0 F-14... As I said. Rule 1 of unlicensed merchandise is you don't tell the rights-holders you're doing it. Also, the only explicit trademarks on that are the BFGoodrich tires. It is obviously the Mad Max car, but legally proving that it is the Mad Max car instead of just coincidentally similar AND that the Mad Max car design is actually copyrighted is a higher hill to surmount. It doesn't say MAD MAX on the side or anything, it could be ANY Ford with a scoop on the hood. Calibre Wings talked to Big West. And then when Big West said no, they told Big West they were going to do it anyways and announced it in a very public manner. And used clearly-documented Big West trademarked names and copyrighted designs. The pilot labels on the cockpit and pilot figures inside it are what I'd call "enough rope to hang them". Without those, Big West has nothing, but Calibre Wings is apparently insistent that the cockpit say SHIN KUDO and EDGAR LA SALLE in tiny letters. That's where the difference comes in. They stepped out of the gray area and into a more clearly defined territory, and made sure everyone knew they were doing it. By abandoning all pretense of making an original design that is coincidentally similar, they did most of the work FOR Big West's lawyers. I wish them the best of luck, because they need it. 11 hours ago, jvmacross said: BW had nothing to lose with granting the license, now it will lose just a few bucks....so they probably weren't going to make much money on a license so they didn't care either way as long as they did not appear to be dealing with an associate of HG I suppose.....seems petty to me and not in-line with their supposed concern for the fans... I'd argue Big West DOES have something to lose. Harmony Gold is an adversarial licensee who has on more than one occasion attempted to use the smallest of levers to wrest control of the entire Macross franchise away from Big West, and continues to file trademarks solely for the purpose of interfering with Big West's business. Any license extended to someone with a Harmony Gold license could be used as evidence that Big West acknowledges the legitimacy of Harmony Gold's expanded rights and broad trademarks. Were I in Big West's shoes, I'd take a similar hard-line stance to Harmony Gold licensees.
kkx Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 Just noticed that my order on Flyingmule for the M0 F14 is for a "clean" version. I really want the weathered version. I know CW offer clean vs weathered version for some of their release, but I was lead to believe that this M0 is only available in weathered version. I hope it is just a "listing error" on Flyingmule's part.
jenius Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 52 minutes ago, JB0 said: As I said. Rule 1 of unlicensed merchandise is you don't tell the rights-holders you're doing it. Also, the only explicit trademarks on that are the BFGoodrich tires. It is obviously the Mad Max car, but legally proving that it is the Mad Max car instead of just coincidentally similar AND that the Mad Max car design is actually copyrighted is a higher hill to surmount. It doesn't say MAD MAX on the side or anything, it could be ANY Ford with a scoop on the hood. Calibre Wings talked to Big West. And then when Big West said no, they told Big West they were going to do it anyways and announced it in a very public manner. And used clearly-documented Big West trademarked names and copyrighted designs. The pilot labels on the cockpit and pilot figures inside it are what I'd call "enough rope to hang them". Without those, Big West has nothing, but Calibre Wings is apparently insistent that the cockpit say SHIN KUDO and EDGAR LA SALLE in tiny letters. That's where the difference comes in. They stepped out of the gray area and into a more clearly defined territory, and made sure everyone knew they were doing it. By abandoning all pretense of making an original design that is coincidentally similar, they did most of the work FOR Big West's lawyers. I wish them the best of luck, because they need it. I'd argue Big West DOES have something to lose. Harmony Gold is an adversarial licensee who has on more than one occasion attempted to use the smallest of levers to wrest control of the entire Macross franchise away from Big West, and continues to file trademarks solely for the purpose of interfering with Big West's business. Any license extended to someone with a Harmony Gold license could be used as evidence that Big West acknowledges the legitimacy of Harmony Gold's expanded rights and broad trademarks. Were I in Big West's shoes, I'd take a similar hard-line stance to Harmony Gold licensees. You are implying more conversation with BW than I think it's likely. CW tried to get BW's attention when they started but either couldn't or were told 'no' because they weren't Japanese. Maybe BW ignored CW so CW poked the bear.
jvmacross Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 So is it now it is being sold as a BlackAces Mac Z 1/72 Tomcat “Shin Special” Custom Diecast Metal Collectors’ Model?....so that should make it all better now...Problem solved! Now it is no different than any of the "fan made" Macross collectibles and "garage kits" being sold on this very site by other members who never get accused of committing crimes against BW's IP.... https://www.facebook.com/shinblackaces/
JB0 Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 Nope. The "garage kits" still abide by rule 1 of unlicensed merchandise and don't actively wave it in the rights-holder's face. I confess to being unaware of the connection between Calibre Wings and Black Aces. I think you've really misunderstood me. I'm not saying Calibre Wings are evil thieves that must now be burned at the stake. I'm saying they made a poor business decision that might have serious legal repercussions for them. 1 hour ago, jenius said: CW tried to get BW's attention when they started but either couldn't or were told 'no' because they weren't Japanese. Maybe BW ignored CW so CW poked the bear. That's fair, but poking the bear just seems like a really bad idea. I guess if Big West was just completely ignoring them and the company is mostly just one guy, I can see him getting mad and just seeing how far he can push before Big West actually takes notice of his existence.
Save Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 Consume whatever you like and all that, but for those out there who are deliberately breaking international laws, just remember one day, the Chogokins are coming home to roost. KO and 3rd Party makers, welcome to 2020! Investigation to raid and arrests took less than three months. "The knockoff toys, sold on the Internet under another name, differed from authentic ones only in size, according to police." Yeah, "BlackAces Mac Z 1/72 Tomcat “Shin Special” Custom Diecast Metal Collectors’ Model" ain't gonna fly. https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/2007232766/ https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/shanghai-police-crack-down-on-transformers-kos-raiding-factory-and-arresting-people/45048/
jvmacross Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 9 hours ago, JB0 said: Nope. The "garage kits" still abide by rule 1 of unlicensed merchandise and don't actively wave it in the rights-holder's face. So a crime only exists if you are caught?
jvmacross Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Save said: Consume whatever you like and all that, but for those out there who are deliberately breaking international laws, just remember one day, the Chogokins are coming home to roost. KO and 3rd Party makers, welcome to 2020! Investigation to raid and arrests took less than three months. "The knockoff toys, sold on the Internet under another name, differed from authentic ones only in size, according to police." Yeah, "BlackAces Mac Z 1/72 Tomcat “Shin Special” Custom Diecast Metal Collectors’ Model" ain't gonna fly. https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/2007232766/ https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/shanghai-police-crack-down-on-transformers-kos-raiding-factory-and-arresting-people/45048/ Yep....likewise, raids and arrests have really reigned in the distribution of illegal drugs worldwide! The unfortunate truth is if there is real money to be made from an illegal enterprise the threat of loss of liberty (does that even matter in China?) won't stop the illegal activity, some other group will fill in the voids left when one group is taken down......... "The suspects allegedly sold the counterfeits for over 100 million yuan (US$14 million) in total, authorities added." Rest assured, someone else will want that $14 million. Honestly, the only way to stop it, at least significantly, is by eliminating the sources of distribution/sale/consumption.....so try and get eBay, TaoBao, etc to give up the profits from hosting the sale of $14 million worth of KO product.
kkx Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, jvmacross said: The unfortunate truth is if there is real money to be made from an illegal enterprise the threat of loss of liberty (does that even matter in China?) won't stop the illegal activity, some other group will fill in the voids left when one group is taken down........ Are you implying that people in China live a life that is no different than in a jail?
Jasonc Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 15 hours ago, jenius said: Save explained BW has nothing to do with WF one day licenses. CW doesn't have a public history with BW... But they did say they licensed with HG for their original tomcats because BW wasn't interested (or wouldn't respond at all). Once you go HG though, you can't go back. This is what I was referring to. With HG's philosophy of blocking Macross, thinking it is as a competitor to their franchise and so on, getting a license from them would mean burning a bridge with said competitor in a way. I mean, that isn't always the case, but I don't see why BW would want to deal with a company playing both sides of the fence here. That's all the detail I really want to give on that. As I stated before, a license holder that hasn't given any manufacturer, professional or a garage kit maker, permission to use their license is subject to C&D from their lawyers, and in some cases where it is on the level of what has happened in China, raids and arrests. Neither one of them, in those examples, has permission, but the main difference is whether or not the license holder finds out, and if it's worth it to go after that party. For the garage kit maker, if they sell 20 of a kit, I haven't seen too many companies go after something that small. They could shut them down, certainly, but it's usually a guy in a garage. Is the time spent going after that person worth the money spent? Probably not. However, a professional company is different. If they release a toy in this case, using an license without permit, it is released, and they don't do anything about an advertised item, in essence, the court can see it as the license holder granting permission. Anyone remember how Macross Plus and II came over here to the U.S.?
Einherjar Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 A company epically screwed up, won’t own up to it, and made a spectacle of itself on the Internet trying to move past it. A pretty common story at this point.
sh9000 Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1573581816177200&id=391686877700039
jvmacross Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 4 hours ago, sh9000 said: https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1573581816177200&id=391686877700039 Can't wait to get this...epic....wonder if they will do the other piece of the flight deck in a future release....where are you BW licensees???? Click Macross OP video first...then start Calibre Wings NOT MACROSS elevator diorama video....
seti88 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) hahaha i like the way you think jvm! That elevator sound effect synched to the macross OP is boss! Possible future flight decks plz....... Edited July 27, 2020 by seti88
EastwindS2k Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 I wonder if a destroid Monster is able to fit in that elevator
seti88 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Posted July 27, 2020 Which version of the monster? Just wondering what the weight tolerance is for the motor to be able to push.. Model kits would be no problem i should say, since they hardly weigh much compared to a diecast.
jenius Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 The CW Tomcat has a lot of die-cast to it so we know it can do many toys... that monster though... it'd look a little silly since it's so tall.
jvmacross Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, seti88 said: hahaha i like the way you think jvm! That elevator sound effect synched to the macross OP is boss! Possible future flight decks plz....... I hope we finally get someone to make accessories and hangars too for our "toys"......heck....make them HG licensed "Robotech" accessories and Hangars....I'd buy them all! Make a good product and you get my money...
jvmacross Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, seti88 said: hahaha i like the way you think jvm! That elevator sound effect synched to the macross OP is boss! Possible future flight decks plz....... How 'bout this one?
seti88 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, jvmacross said: I hope we finally get someone to make accessories and hangars too for our "toys"......heck....make them HG licensed "Robotech" accessories and Hangars....I'd buy them all! Make a good product and you get my money... My main concern is on the scale, it would be great of there would be ones that a 1/60 valk wouldn't look out of place on. Am good for generic brand flight decks. Lower costs, avoid IP controversy and a wider market with cheaper price points! However if you want to go premium decks, add steam coming out of the catapult launch lines.
seti88 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, jvmacross said: How 'bout this one? I remember there was a scene in TG that had that elevator noise. Had to play the elevator sound on loop to last the whole song haha... Now you got me wanting top gun 2 to be released asap too.. Edited July 27, 2020 by seti88
jvmacross Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Product/VariationDetails/131246 Macross F-14 Low Visibility "Shin Kudo"....
ErikElvis Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 How long ago did we hear of this? I feel like it came on quick.
sh9000 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 Looking forward to the Shin Special and getting the elevator to use with my HMR.
jvmacross Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, sh9000 said: Looking forward to the Shin Special and getting the elevator to use with my HMR. Carrier deck with catapult next?
wmkjr Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, jvmacross said: Carrier deck with catapult next? Might as well. They just gotta buy the digital files then mass produce it: If anyone has a 3D printer. These are from Luke Massassi. He created the scalable 3d model files and they are for sale with royalty free license here https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models?author=massassi. He said this one took him 400 hours to print. CW approached him about the sets. Edited July 29, 2020 by wmkjr Source credit
DewPoint Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 Those images remind me of the USS Flagg Playset. I did a quick ebay price check and those are going for a crazy asking price.
jvmacross Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, wmkjr said: Might as well. They just gotta buy the digital files then mass produce it: If anyone has a 3D printer. These are from Luke Massassi. He created the scalable 3d model files and they are for sale with royalty free license here https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models?author=massassi. He said this one took him 400 hours to print. CW approached him about the sets. I was going to mention that the CW looks exactly like the elevator on that 3D file......maybe they did buy them...both!
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