Arcadia 1/60 Super VF-1J Max & Millia Release

[Sanity is Optional]

Just try working it back and forth a bit, you may need to apply uncomfortable amounts of force if it's like my Arcadia VF-1S Roy.

[Cowboy17]

5 hours ago, ZorClone said:

Holy crap I cannot get the backpack on this girl to flip up all the way without parts of it starting to split open.  Any tips on how to free up that hinge?

edit: oh, you were talking about the whole backpack, not just the flap on the back.  

Edited November 10, 2017 by Cowboy17

[Chronocidal]

Are you pressing downwards on the area ahead of the tails?  The multi-joint hinge has to kind of let the backpack slip downward before it'll fold correctly.

[ZorClone]

It's at my office, I'll try and take a pic of the issue tomorrow.  It will flip up 90 degrees but the upper part doesn't fold to bring the pack back towards the back.

[ZorClone]

Ok here are the problem areas. The parts trying to separate and the hinge that won’t budge

[HardlyNever]

I'm not sure why more people aren't talking about this, but this has been an issue with Arcadia since (at least) their strike Focker release of August 2016.  The backpack hinge area is ridiculously tight out of the box, which means if you keep going with it, one of the halves of the holes that hold the peg of the backpack flap could break off.  Mine did on the first day I got it.  And while I'm willing to take some of the blame for not being more careful with it, there is no way this should be breaking right out of the box with only minor mishandling (basically transforming the backpack too quickly).

I wish I had a solution for you ZorClone, but my Focker broke on day 1, and I had to glue it back on.  After several re-breaks, I sanded it down and glued it to a point where it is 100% functional, but the crack is still visible.  My Arcadia vf-1J had a similar issue, just not nearly as bad (it strained that area a little bit when I transformed it, but nothing broke).  I'm guessing it is because it was an earlier release.

I'm not saying every Arcadia release has this issue, but some definitely do, even before this Miria release, where it seems to be more common.

Edit:  I'm probably not the best guy to give advice on this, but if I had to do it again, I'd take it incredibly slowly, with a lot of little wiggling back and forth.  I would also try to hold/clamp the notches that hold the folding backpack flap, as there is the mostly likely place for it to break.  That's my 2 cents, ZorClone.  I've seen other people recommend sanding down that area.  I think after you transform it a few times (if you dare), it will loosen up enough.

Went back and looked, it was actually my first post on this site:

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by HardlyNever

[wmkjr]

Did you try doing it like step 4? This is from a Yamato VF-1A but should be the same. It'll be stiff like how it looks like in your pics until you get it unlocked. I just tried it by opening mine for the 1st time and the backpack was like yours until I unlocked it then it moves easily.

Edited November 10, 2017 by wmkjr

[recon]

15 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Are you pressing downwards on the area ahead of the tails?  The multi-joint hinge has to kind of let the backpack slip downward before it'll fold correctly.

Here are pics of what chronocial shared in the past

Edited November 10, 2017 by recon

[recon]

[505thAirborne]

4 hours ago, ZorClone said:

Ok here are the problem areas. The parts trying to separate and the hinge that won’t budge

So I'm not the only one with this issue. Was pretty sure I was going to break it, luckily it didn't

[valhary]

it's funny see this kind of issues and Arcadia insists in justify overpriced products arguing the quality control

[HardlyNever]

9 minutes ago, valhary said:

it's funny see this kind of issues and Arcadia insists in justify overpriced products arguing the quality control

This has been my biggest beef with Arcadia.  I'm sure some people get great copies, but for the price we pay for these things now, quality control should be way better, and we should all be getting nearly identical toys.  My Hikaru GBP / vf-1j was nearly flawless (gripes about the "pinkness" aside).  If all their releases where of that quality, I'd have no complaint, but they aren't, and that is a huge issue at this price.

They better nail these premium SDF-1s, or I might be done with them.

[Chronocidal]

39 minutes ago, recon said:

Here are pics of what chronocial shared in the

Thanks for reposting these, I hadn't had a chance to go find them yet.

Those pics were actually about not breaking the retaining caps for that flap when moving the backpack back down, but the motion needs to be done in both directions to fold the pack safely.  To get that hinge loose, you want to be pushing down on the forward edge of the pack, not pushing up on the tail end where the probes stick out.

So, I literally just got my Milia at the door in the middle of writing this, and I've taken it out to examine this issue first hand.  Getting the second tail hinge to fold the first time was tough, I had to press down pretty hard on the front edge of the backpack ahead of the tails, and there was a pretty loud "CLICK" when it slipped past.

I think the trick to it is that you have to do the second hinge first, before you bend the first hinge much past level.  The molding is setup in a way that lets it slip past easier the closer the backpack is to level.  Once you bend the pack upwards, that second hinge feels harder to get moving.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Chronocidal

[Sanity is Optional]

I think part of the problem is that the original Yamato molds they're using have really terrible nub placement. Like putting the nubs on the contact surface of the bar in a joint. If the nub sticks out even a little it will cause severe issues.

[wmkjr]

Dunno if the pic I posted shows up but it showed the backpack up at a 45 degree angle. Push down on the outer bottom areas of where you circled at the bottom hinge. It should unlock with a click and now show the bottom hinge pin. The upper hinge should then be able to move freely.

Upper hinge meaning hinge toward the rear of the plane.

Edited November 10, 2017 by wmkjr

[Lolicon]

I always chuckle whenever someone says they're "done" with one company or another. Until the next toy they want is announced. 

[Slave IV]

Just now, Lolicon said:

I always chuckle whenever someone says they're "done" with one company or another. Until the next toy they want is announced. 

 From the posts above, it seems like the "issue" is a non-issue anyways but I apologize if I'm mistaken. The Arcadia VF-1 mold is pretty tried and true and people seem to love it enough to keep buying. I sure do!

[HardlyNever]

10 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

I always chuckle whenever someone says they're "done" with one company or another. Until the next toy they want is announced. 

I don't want much else from Arcadia (I'm only interested SDFM stuff), so it wouldn't really be that hard for me to be done with them. 

If the SDF-1 comes out fine, I'd definitely be willing to give them another shot, though.

 From the posts above, it seems like the "issue" is a non-issue anyways but I apologize if I'm mistaken. The Arcadia VF-1 mold is pretty tried and true and people seem to love it enough to keep buying. I sure do!

I've seen this issue several times now, across several releases.  I can link to the other places I've seen it, but I don't want to derail this thread that far.  That said, I'm not saying everyone is having this issue.  I am saying that anyone having this issue is pretty bad for the price Arcadia is asking now.

Edited November 10, 2017 by HardlyNever

[Chronocidal]

Little issues aside, I can say it's rather satisfying pulling out a brand new VF-1, doing a few tweaks, and then setting about to transforming it.  I always loosen the shoulder pivots a half-turn or so, and I filed down the nubs that scratch the shoulder tabs to about 1/3 their normal height.

The design itself really has stood up well for the past 10 years.

[Slave IV]

19 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

I don't want much else from Arcadia (I'm only interested SDFM stuff), so it wouldn't really be that hard for me to be done with them. 

If the SDF-1 comes out fine, I'd definitely be willing to give them another shot, though.

I've seen this issue several times now, across several releases.  I can link to the other places I've seen it, but I don't want to derail this thread that far.  That said, I'm not saying everyone is having this issue.  I am saying that anyone having this issue is pretty bad for the price Arcadia is asking now.

I get it but what I'm saying is it seems the issue is user related. I had trouble folding the backpack on one of mine until I saw the posts about how to do it properly. Then it worked fine. If the recommended way to fold the backpack still doesn't work for some of you, I agree, that would suck.

[HardlyNever]

10 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

I get it but what I'm saying is it seems the issue is user related. I had trouble folding the backpack on one of mine until I saw the posts about how to do it properly. Then it worked fine. If the recommended way to fold the backpack still doesn't work for some of you, I agree, that would suck.

Like I said, there is some degree of user error.  But it seems odd that a design would be so weak that you need to consult an online community before you transform the thing once without breaking it (the instructions don't go in this much detail for the backpack part of the transformation).  I think there is more to it than that.  Jenius, who has to have handled dozens of v2 vf-1s over the years, has this picture on his website:

It's the same break I had.  At some point, you have to wonder if that is a weak point in the design, or what % of breaks is acceptable.

Edited November 10, 2017 by HardlyNever

[Chronocidal]

Keep in mind, we can't read the instructions.  There is a proper process to transform the thing that doesn't stress the joints, and you can't just blindly transform it without looking at what you're doing.  If you see something causing a joint stress while trying to move it, it's time to try another approach.  The photos linked above that I posted earlier are specifically to avoid that type of breakage on the tail section.

This also isn't limited to Yamato/Arcadia.  Bandai's instructions for the VF-171 are actually a ticking time bomb, because they instruct you to do things that can directly result in the valk exploding into a pile of plastic shards.  They don't detail the transformation from battroid back to fighter, and executing the steps in reverse just doesn't work, because there's an interlock in the leg twist that won't function the same forwards as backwards.

That's not to say there aren't weak points in the designs, because those will always exist.  You just have to keep yourself aware of them.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Chronocidal

[HardlyNever]

6 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Keep in mind, we can't read the instructions.  There is a proper process to transform the thing that doesn't stress the joints, and you can't just blindly transform it without looking at what you're doing.  If you see something causing a joint stress while trying to move it, it's time to try another approach.  The photos linked above that I posted earlier are specifically to avoid that type of breakage on the tail section.

This also isn't limited to Yamato/Arcadia.  Bandai's instructions for the VF-171 are actually a ticking time bomb, because they instruct you to do things that can directly result in the valk exploding into a pile of plastic shards.

That's not to say there aren't weak points in the designs, because those will always exist.  You just have to keep yourself aware of them.

I guess my overall point is that I'm surprised this exact issue hasn't been talked about more (but this thread has changed that).  I think at this point it should be a highlighted known weakness of the design, somewhat akin to the shoulders of the early yamato v2s (it's not as wide spread, and not as bad as when it breaks, but I think I've seen 10+ people reporting this exact problem, and I'm not an authority on it).  I hope this sort of raises awareness of the issue, as even people who have experience with yamato/arcadia v2s seem to run into this problem, having not known about it before.  I doubt Arcadia will ever get wind of it, unless a lot of Japanese customers are having the same problem.  But I think it would be good to raise the awareness of this issue within this community, at least.

[Sanity is Optional]

17 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

Like I said, there is some degree of user error.  But it seems odd that a design would be so weak that you need to consult an online community before you transform the thing once without breaking it (the instructions don't go in this much detail for the backpack part of the transformation).  I think there is more to it than that.  Jenius, who has to have handled dozens of v2 vf-1s over the years, has this picture on his website:

It's the same break I had.  At some point, you have to wonder if that is a weak point in the design, or what % of breaks is acceptable.

That's the same break I had on my Arcadia VF-1S Roy. That one is definitely due to poor nub removal on the plastic. Fixed that while it was open (shaved down the protruding plastic with a hobby blade), then glued it back shut and everything worked smoothly from then on.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Sanity is Optional

[HardlyNever]

Just now, Sanity is Optional said:

That's the same break I had on my Arcadia VF-1S Roy. That one is definitely due to poor nub removal on the plastic. Fixed that while it was open, then glued it back shut and everything worked smoothly from then on.

Yup, I discovered the same thing.  But it took 3-4 re-glues before I realized what was going on.  After I really took a look at it, and sanded it down, I haven't had a problem since.  But I can't accept "have your toy break, then do this fix and it is fine" is ok for a $200+ toy.  But that is me, other people are fine with that scenario.

[Chronocidal]

11 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

I guess my overall point is that I'm surprised this exact issue hasn't been talked about more (but this thread has changed that).  I think at this point it should be a highlighted known weakness of the design, somewhat akin to the shoulders of the early yamato v2s (it's not as wide spread, and not as bad as when it breaks, but I think I've seen 10+ people reporting this exact problem, and I'm not an authority on it).  I hope this sort of raises awareness of the issue, as even people who have experience with yamato/arcadia v2s seem to run into this problem, having not known about it before.  I doubt Arcadia will ever get wind of it, unless a lot of Japanese customers are having the same problem.  But I think it would be good to raise the awareness of this issue within this community, at least.

Actually though, it absolutely was talked about, 10 years ago now.   People have been having this issue since the original release, and it's not due to a plastic nub or anything, unless the pins on the rotating flap are misshapen, and causing stress on that cup when the flap is moved.

From everything I've seen, the break is caused because the edge of the plastic cup catches on part of the backplate when going back to fighter mode.  If you follow the directions in my original photos, and push the backpack upwards at the right point, those parts will never even touch.  That was basically the solution a decade ago, and that hasn't changed since then.

I guess you can also sand down the area to give the backpack more room?  But it's not necessary if you fold the hinges in the right way. 

I apologize if I'm missing something entirely here, because I'm not sure what "nubs" you're talking about sanding down, and I can't see any plastic sprue points that are contributing to this issue.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Chronocidal

[HardlyNever]

7 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Actually though, it absolutely was talked about, 10 years ago now.   People have been having this issue since the original release, and it's not due to a plastic nub or anything, unless the pins on the rotating flap are misshapen, and causing stress on that cup when the flap is moved.

From everything I've seen, the break is caused because the edge of the plastic cup catches on part of the backplate when going back to fighter mode.  If you follow the directions in my original photos, and push the backpack upwards at the right point, those parts will never even touch.  That was basically the solution a decade ago, and that hasn't changed since then.

One nub on my flap was 100%, without a shadow of a doubt, bigger than the other.  And the guy above me is saying the same thing (as far as I can tell).  It seems like the Roy release might have had it worse than others, for whatever reason.  Based on this thread, it looks like some of the Milia's might have the same issue (I didn't buy one, so I couldn't tell, and I doubt it is ALL of any one release).

I apologize if I'm missing something entirely here, because I'm not sure what "nubs" you're talking about sanding down, and I can't see any plastic sprue points that are contributing to this issue.

I think what I'm calling a nub, you're calling the pins.  It is the two protrusions on either side of the folding flap.  One of mine was larger than the other (it was "fatter" around and a tiny bit longer).  So what I think happens is one side of the "cap" (as I think you're calling it) gets pushed out farther than the other, when you transforming it, due to one of the "pins" being bigger than the other.

Edited November 10, 2017 by HardlyNever

[Chronocidal]

Ok, my apologies then, we're talking about two separate types of breakage here.

I've only ever seen that part break from dragging it along the backplate, and catching it while trying to push the backpack down for fighter mode.

What it sounds like you're talking about is probably much less common, and I've never actually witnessed.  So the plastic posts on the rotating flap are actually lopsided enough that they pushed apart that cupped area, and broke it?

Edited November 10, 2017 by Chronocidal

[Sanity is Optional]

23 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

Yup, I discovered the same thing.  But it took 3-4 re-glues before I realized what was going on.  After I really took a look at it, and sanded it down, I haven't had a problem since.  But I can't accept "have your toy break, then do this fix and it is fine" is ok for a $200+ toy.  But that is me, other people are fine with that scenario.

Yeah, their manufacturing quality isn't exactly up to Bandai standards, which I can understand considering they're hiring a factory rather than owning their own (like Bandai).

Still, I'll take an easy fix over a complicated one.

[Lolicon]

Though they both have issues, I've spent way more time fixing Bandai toys than Yamato toys.

[Slave IV]

I only have the latest Delta DX Bandai valks, which are supposed to be the pinnacle of their tech and quality (at least the 31 is). They don't feel as refined as my Arcadia VF-1's or VF-0. I will hand it to Bandai for a lot of design and engineering greatness but I would expect them to be leagues beyond a 10+ year old design, not just comparable or actually worse in some areas. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Slave IV

[Chronocidal]

16 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Yeah, their manufacturing quality isn't exactly up to Bandai standards, which I can understand considering they're hiring a factory rather than owning their own (like Bandai).

Still, I'll take an easy fix over a complicated one.

Bandai's manufacturing quality can't fix some of the pants-on-head stupid decisions their design teams make.  For all the assorted flaws my Yamato and Arcadia valks may have had, I've been able to fix all of them myself. 

In comparison, I have a box full of disintegrated Bandai valk parts that I can't do a thing with, because they're broken into little shards, and are relegated to acting as spares for the remaining displayable ones.  They don't tend to break so much as flat out explode.

But anywho, I don't need to derail this further.  This discussion's been done to death and a half.

Anyhow, as far as the Arcadia Milia I received goes, it seems to be just about identical to the old Yamato one, minus the screw covers.  I removed the stickers off the bat because they looked like little bits of tomato floating in a glass of red wine.  

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Chronocidal

[Cowboy17]

1 hour ago, HardlyNever said:

Like I said, there is some degree of user error.  But it seems odd that a design would be so weak that you need to consult an online community before you transform the thing once without breaking it (the instructions don't go in this much detail for the backpack part of the transformation).  I think there is more to it than that.  Jenius, who has to have handled dozens of v2 vf-1s over the years, has this picture on his website:

It's the same break I had.  At some point, you have to wonder if that is a weak point in the design, or what % of breaks is acceptable.

 

my millia had the flap pop out, but it didn't break like that. it did take some finessing to get it back in involving a hobby knife propping the split in the hinge open.

[HardlyNever]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

Ok, my apologies then, we're talking about two separate types of breakage here.

I've only ever seen that part break from dragging it along the backplate, and catching it while trying to push the backpack down for fighter mode.

What it sounds like you're talking about is probably much less common, and I've never actually witnessed.  So the plastic posts on the rotating flap are actually lopsided enough that they pushed apart that cupped area, and broke it?

No big deal, I know there isn't super accurate terminology for this stuff.  And yes, one post/pin/nub is/was bigger than the other, which caused the cap on that side to protrude out farther.  For me, this didn't cause a break until I went back to fighter mode.  Had I known exactly what the issue was before hand, it might have been avoidable, but short of a warning that says "Hey, we screwed up and one of the caps on the backpack will stick out farther than the other, be extra careful when transforming," I don't see how it would have been reasonably avoided.

I have other grips about the variance in quality in Arcadia releases, and even within the same toy (landing gears being more difficult on one side than the other, etc.), but I don't want to derail this into a "Arcadia QA sucks," thread.  I'm just glad to see these issues are coming to light within the community, as I believe they might be becoming more common.

Edited November 10, 2017 by HardlyNever

[treatment]

7 hours ago, ZorClone said:

Ok here are the problem areas. The parts trying to separate and the hinge that won’t budge

 

Yeah.

That's quite a bit wrong there. 

Surprised it didn't break altogether at all.

I see wmkjr already posted the manual, so try a re-do.