This was bound to happen...gray market VF's?

[F360]

15 minutes ago, seti88 said:

was just abt to ask abt the armor parts and voila!! Is there a way to see reviews abt them first?

 

Maybe on youku , youtube after they get release .  I think it mentioned 4th quarter.  But facebook group will probably have too.

 

[anime52k8]

I don't really trust the quality of any of these things or the people selling them (not that I even know how to order off Taobao), but I kind of really want a few sets of missiles

[chyll2]

yeah, other than the attaching point, there should be no issues on getting the missiles. I dont even get bandai why they wont release a separate web exclusive part when pretty much all of the recent DX toys have a hard point already.

[Sandman]

Those armour sets for the vf25 are going to sell like crazy. it's a crime that you can't get these sets after the initial order even when the valk has been reissued. Along with the Alto 29 super parts set, I'm not surprised these are getting KOed. They are all demanding insane after market prices. Its a shame bandai penalizes people who are late to collecting a series. Serves them right for leaving money on the table.

[spacemanoeuvres]

Yeah it's frustrating that many folks can't get their hands on these at a reasonable price. 

The armor parts in particular are SO expensive right now, $275-300.

As others have stated it may be a good thing that these ko products are becoming available. There's obviously a market for them and hopefully it will encourage bandai et al to (re)release some highly sought after figures and accessories.  

[derex3592]

I'm in for KO Armor Parts! 

[seti88]

4 hours ago, F360 said:

Maybe on youku , youtube after they get release .  I think it mentioned 4th quarter.  But facebook group will probably have too.

 

Wow that's long, I tot they were abt ready. Definately would like to see the quality first, I know it's cheaper but it's still not that cheap. Basically sacrificing a hmr in the process...

thanks for the heads up on the timing tho...am sure these pages will be flooded with pics should they turn out well...

[sh9000]

I'd buy the Armor Parts to customize for my VF-25G.

[enphily]

Damn, i'd buy vf-25G sniper rifle...

[ArchieNov]

I wonder if they will KO the actual Bandai valks. If so, maybe they can be used for spare parts hehe.

[no3Ljm]

It's a race now for these Macross products. Once these KO products goes out, expect that Bandai will announce reissue of those hard to obtain Macross Frontier Web Exclusive Parts and Arcadia will do the same too on their products. I don't think people are going to buy those old Yamato Max and Millia VF-1J's for the price they're going now since most people know that Arcadia is reissuing it and most of us here doesn't care anymore inspite of different pink-white paint used and no rainbow canopies. 

And if that happens, I'm going to make sure that I'll buy the legit ones first. No need for extra parts. 

 

[UN Spacy]

Arcadia will now be implementing serial numbers for their products starting with the upcoming Miria VF-1J. 

 

 

[Kanedas Bike]

14 minutes ago, UN Spacy said:

Arcadia will now be implementing serial numbers for their products starting with the upcoming Miria VF-1J. 

 

 

 

GOOD

-b.

[dizman]

Wow that's an interesting idea though the KOs will probably just have fake serial numbers to screw people over so......

[zzgundam010]

agree. I don't see how that will stop the bootlegger.

 

[wm cheng]

It's just to cover their own ass, so they can sort out their own warranty claims.  It's never for the benefit of the customer!

[Sandman]

Hopefully they won't be in places where they stick out or too visible.

[Kanedas Bike]

1 hour ago, dizman said:

Wow that's an interesting idea though the KOs will probably just have fake serial numbers to screw people over so......

Perhaps, but we don't know (unless it's spelled out in exact details in that tweet) how Arcadia will implement the serial numbers or other methodology to let consumers know they are buying a legitimate item.

58 minutes ago, zzgundam010 said:

agree. I don't see how that will stop the bootlegger.

 

Well you can't stop bootleggers. Just ask Microsoft or any company big enough to have their products stolen and reproduced.

This is all about trying to make sure that you and I have a way of validating we've purchased an Arcadia item vs. bootlegged item.

28 minutes ago, wm cheng said:

It's just to cover their own ass, so they can sort out their own warranty claims.  It's never for the benefit of the customer!

Respectfully, warranties (if one is able to take advantage of Arcadia's warranty program) help the customer.

 

 

-------

 

Not directed at anyone in particular but I'm having a hard time sorting out the 'mood' of the community on this entire topic and I hope that no one takes offense. Do you guys want or support stolen goods? And if so do you understand that at the end of the day this hurts (in varying degrees) Arcadia and Bandai, which will ultimately hurt us? I don't know about you but I don't want my only options to be poorly made, bootlegged copies, of my Macross toys. I don't care how cheap they are. Cheap being the very operative word - do you honestly believe these folks are going to use higher quality materials and better craftsmanship? 

-b.

[Slave IV]

That almost makes me want to buy KOs more, lol. End of day, I don't care who makes it or anything. Whoever puts the most care into producing the best product and lowest price...basically, provides the best value gets my business. 

I already have the official Milia ordered but if a KO gives me the premium tampo, same or better quality, that baby pod included and a lower price, I'm in!

[chyll2]

I do not want to steal or buy KO but if I want an Armor pack, my only option now is to rob a bank to afford it or bleed the wallet and constantly remind myself that it is worth it (while thinking that the AP is more expensive than a Delta Valk or even get you enough to at least halfly afford the next Delta Valk). I can't talk about Arcadia since I do not collect their toy but for the case of Bandai, they really do penalize you a lot for coming in late. When I started collecting, the armor pack already sells for twice the SRP (when you cant afford the 25 toy) and it did not took long for the price to reach thrice or quadruple (when you can afford the 25 toy).

 

Anyway, I am not really that interest in the Armor pack but more so on the reaction missile and MDE since I do not have the 171 toy and is not willing to buy an expansion pack that I only need the missiles in there.

[seti88]

Perception/tolerance and marketing of quality vs price will play a strong part.

I would say bandai shouldn't be too worried as bandai's pricing, quality and range are very strong. Arcadia on the other hand, will be under pressure.
 

[mickyg]

This sure is a slippery one, that's for sure.  On the one hand, there's blatant copying and outright stealing of a product at play here.  And on the other, there's the fact that you can't actually buy the damned things anymore!  Or at least at a price that's not insane. 

I'm totally with Chyll2 on this one as well - when I was first in a position to actually buy a renewal Bandai VF-25, I had enough for only the 'valk.  And unfortunately by then, the armor parts were long since sold out.  That meant second hand ones were skyrocketing to the point of absurdity.  So much so that when the final run of VF-25Ss was released, I didn't really bother to search for it or even attempt to buy one on the second hand market (when they were affordable) for the simple fact that I couldn't afford the stupid cost of second hand armor parts to do ol' Ozma up properly.

I get that it's probably an really good business move on the part of Bandai to have this sort of model in place, as it prevents shelf warmers and (perhaps artificially) drives up demand.  But from a consumer point of view, it's terribly frustrating not being able to buy the things you want, for the retail price, simply because Bandai didn't make enough.  We consumers don't really care what the reason behind it is, the simple fact is the item we want isn't available.

I'd love to apply this to other prestige items (if that's the right category to put our toys) like cars, for instance, but unless I'm missing something, that model really doesn't apply.  True, there are some obvious examples of limited production runs of some vehicles but the costs are already so high that you've limited your market to only a select few anyway. Maybe someone else can chime in with some other examples of this happening in the industry.

In short, I don't support what's happening with these KOs, even if the quality is the same or better.  They're potentially short circuiting the whole reason these toys exist in the first place.  However, if the original companies really aren't going to reissue the stuff we are willing to buy, for retail prices, then that only leaves the second hand, highly inflated market.  I certainly understand why it's an attractive option.

1 hour ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Perhaps, but we don't know (unless it's spelled out in exact details in that tweet) how Arcadia will implement the serial numbers or other methodology to let consumers know they are buying a legitimate item.

Well you can't stop bootleggers. Just ask Microsoft or any company big enough to have their products stolen and reproduced.

This is all about trying to make sure that you and I have a way of validating we've purchased an Arcadia item vs. bootlegged item.

Respectfully, warranties (if one is able to take advantage of Arcadia's warranty program) help the customer.

 

 

-------

 

Not directed at anyone in particular but I'm having a hard time sorting out the 'mood' of the community on this entire topic and I hope that no one takes offense. Do you guys want or support stolen goods? And if so do you understand that at the end of the day this hurts (in varying degrees) Arcadia and Bandai, which will ultimately hurt us? I don't know about you but I don't want my only options to be poorly made, bootlegged copies, of my Macross toys. I don't care how cheap they are. Cheap being the very operative word - do you honestly believe these folks are going to use higher quality materials and better craftsmanship? 

-b.

[snakerbot]

2 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Not directed at anyone in particular but I'm having a hard time sorting out the 'mood' of the community on this entire topic and I hope that no one takes offense. Do you guys want or support stolen goods? And if so do you understand that at the end of the day this hurts (in varying degrees) Arcadia and Bandai, which will ultimately hurt us? I don't know about you but I don't want my only options to be poorly made, bootlegged copies, of my Macross toys. I don't care how cheap they are. Cheap being the very operative word - do you honestly believe these folks are going to use higher quality materials and better craftsmanship? 

-b.

I'm with you. There's a lot more that goes into making these toys than just the raw material and assembly cost. I would rather not have a toy than buy a KO.

[Universe1010]

can anyone give me the link to the launch stand the ones on the last page dont work

[Kanedas Bike]

2 hours ago, chyll2 said:

I do not want to steal or buy KO but if I want an Armor pack, my only option now is to rob a bank to afford it or bleed the wallet and constantly remind myself that it is worth it (while thinking that the AP is more expensive than a Delta Valk or even get you enough to at least halfly afford the next Delta Valk). I can't talk about Arcadia since I do not collect their toy but for the case of Bandai, they really do penalize you a lot for coming in late. When I started collecting, the armor pack already sells for twice the SRP (when you cant afford the 25 toy) and it did not took long for the price to reach thrice or quadruple (when you can afford the 25 toy).

 

Anyway, I am not really that interest in the Armor pack but more so on the reaction missile and MDE since I do not have the 171 toy and is not willing to buy an expansion pack that I only need the missiles in there.

Fair, and while I was lucky enough to get a few of the Frontier Armor and Super Parts when the prices were at, or just above the initial pre-order price I absolutely would not buy them at current after-market prices.

And in the interest of full disclosure, my concern rests primarily with Arcadia because I think that Bandai can better absorb this type of black (not sure how this is grey) market activity so I'm not as concerned with their health as a company and/or them pulling out of Macross altogether. 

1 hour ago, mickyg said:

This sure is a slippery one, that's for sure.  On the one hand, there's blatant copying and outright stealing of a product at play here.  And on the other, there's the fact that you can't actually buy the damned things anymore!  Or at least at a price that's not insane. 

I'm totally with Chyll2 on this one as well - when I was first in a position to actually buy a renewal Bandai VF-25, I had enough for only the 'valk.  And unfortunately by then, the armor parts were long since sold out.  That meant second hand ones were skyrocketing to the point of absurdity.  So much so that when the final run of VF-25Ss was released, I didn't really bother to search for it or even attempt to buy one on the second hand market (when they were affordable) for the simple fact that I couldn't afford the stupid cost of second hand armor parts to do ol' Ozma up properly.

I get that it's probably an really good business move on the part of Bandai to have this sort of model in place, as it prevents shelf warmers and (perhaps artificially) drives up demand.  But from a consumer point of view, it's terribly frustrating not being able to buy the things you want, for the retail price, simply because Bandai didn't make enough.  We consumers don't really care what the reason behind it is, the simple fact is the item we want isn't available.

I'd love to apply this to other prestige items (if that's the right category to put our toys) like cars, for instance, but unless I'm missing something, that model really doesn't apply.  True, there are some obvious examples of limited production runs of some vehicles but the costs are already so high that you've limited your market to only a select few anyway. Maybe someone else can chime in with some other examples of this happening in the industry.

In short, I don't support what's happening with these KOs, even if the quality is the same or better.  They're potentially short circuiting the whole reason these toys exist in the first place.  However, if the original companies really aren't going to reissue the stuff we are willing to buy, for retail prices, then that only leaves the second hand, highly inflated market.  I certainly understand why it's an attractive option.

Hey Mickyg!

Fair points. Agreed that it's a very slippery slope.

55 minutes ago, snakerbot said:

I'm with you. There's a lot more that goes into making these toys than just the raw material and assembly cost. I would rather not have a toy than buy a KO.

This is pretty much where I land - but I get it if the originals are out of reach for people (myself included on some items) because of after-market prices AND if the current prices are out of reach. It's the folks that can afford these things that are all-in willing to support the bootleg items that really bother my moral compass. 

At the end of the day, to each their own.

-b. 

[Slave IV]

I never considered kos or even paid any attention to them until just about a year ago seeing how in many cases, they have been doing a better job than official in the world of Transformers. 

As for the moral issue, implying anyone else's might be questionable is basically accusing and without going into how hypocritical that is, I'll just say that's not what we're here for. 

[Kanedas Bike]

11 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

I never considered kos or even paid any attention to them until just about a year ago seeing how in many cases, they have been doing a better job than official in the world of Transformers. 

As for the moral issue, implying anyone else's might be questionable is basically accusing and without going into how hypocritical that is, I'll just say that's not what we're here for. 

Like I said to each their own.

You'll can support them for your own reasons (cheaper and potentially "better" quality (I put that in quotes because "better" could be subjective)), I will not.

And for the record, I didn't say that what I find questionable you should as well.

And let's say that these bootlegs are both, cheaper and better - why then should Bandai and Arcadia continue to produce or support Macross? They likely won't if this really impacts their profitability. Good luck with these other guys making "new" items and designs. To date the only other companies willing to make new items are either garage companies (like Yamato was back in 2001/2002) making models or folks doing super-deformed items.

And 3rd Party Transformers are not the same as bootleg Transformers. 3rd Party, as best I understand, are new items that companies making (from design to production) Transformers that have not already been designed by, or produced by Takara or Hasbro. That's comparing apples to oranges.

Bootleg Transformers have quality that is hit or miss, that's more akin to what is happening right now with Macross. Whether these bootlegged Macross items are as good as, or better than the official Bandai or Arcadia/Yamato items remains to be seen. 

I would say that we're not here to support thievery either, but here we are - 9 pages in. 

-b.

[estacado06479]

I just want replacement parts and armor parts. If Arcadia can't/won't do that, then they're going to have to accept the fact that these products will be sold by someone else.

[sh9000]

It's possible that the KO Valkyries will be of the same or better quality and the only way to distinguish them from Arcadia's is by a serial number.

[anime52k8]

Alternatively,  these bootlegs may ACTUALLY explode in your hands and give you cancer.

[Slave IV]

I'm not just talking about 3P, there are many KO TFs that are better copies or even improve on original designs. Either way, I'm not concerned about companies not able to survive because of KOs. That's the challenge of doing business. If one company can't hack it, others will take its place and if not, that just means there is no market for the items but we all know that's not the case. 

[Lorindor]

From a report on the KO Fold Booster, these are not the case of improvements over the original.

1 hour ago, anime52k8 said:

Alternatively,  these bootlegs may ACTUALLY explode in your hands and give you cancer.

That's not too unlikely. 

[jenius]

1 hour ago, Slave IV said:

I'm not just talking about 3P, there are many KO TFs that are better copies or even improve on original designs. Either way, I'm not concerned about companies not able to survive because of KOs. That's the challenge of doing business. If one company can't hack it, others will take its place and if not, that just means there is no market for the items but we all know that's not the case. 

So not a fan of the concept of intellectual property huh?  That's a bold stance.

[Boobytrap]

For me, I do recognize that there is theft going on but if it allows me to get something off of a secondary market that I couldn't otherwise afford/have access to I would probably be OK with doing it.

I will always buy a product from Bandai/Arcadia should it ever be available. If the Bandai/Arcadia products are available at retailers I wouldn't buy a KO just to get it cheaper. Doing so hurts the companies that are doing the real development and paying for the licenses to produce these products. If I can't afford to buy a product at retail price then maybe this hobby isn't for me and I need to find something cheaper. In addition, if Bandaia/Arcadia stop making Macross products due to profit loss then who are the KO companies going to steal from to keep making the KO's? 

But if my choice for a long sold out item (with very little to no hope of re-release) is either KO or individual re-seller I'm going to go with the cheaper option. That really isn't taking any money from Bandai/Arcadia. They already sold their product and made all the money they are going to from the item. The only people I'm really taking money from is the re-seller.

So if KO's ever offer a VE-1 or VT-1 I'll probably pass. I'm pretty sure Arcadia will get around to those... eventually. I can wait. But with the VF-25 armored parts I can see myself getting those as the chance for Bandai ever re-releasing those is pretty much nil.

I'd be faced with a quandary if the KO's ever released something new, whether a completely new design (like a VF-5000) or a new paint scheme that I don't see officially being released (like a VF-1 Alaska base or FB2012 VF-4).

[Slave IV]

5 minutes ago, jenius said:

So not a fan of the concept of intellectual property huh?  That's a bold stance.

Not really, especially when it's something like a license giving you in essence, a legal monopoly. Legal technicalities are always secondary or much lower when it comes to morals IMO. I've worked in the creative industry most my life and never concerned with "IP" because imitation is the highest form of flattery and keeps you on your toes. If you aren't good enough to stay ahead of your copiers, you are either lazy, not good enough or overly greedy, IMO.