This was bound to happen...gray market VF's?

[Atheonyirh]

If Arcadia isn't going to fill a market demand, and someone else will, you're going to have people go with the option that meets demand. That's capitalism for 'ya.

[amptor]

9 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

This entire situation bothers me.

One, that conditions are such (limited product availability, prices higher than most can either afford, or are willing to pay) that there is even a market for Knock-Off copies of Yamato/Arcadia products and two that there are people eager and willing to support said bootleg market.

Don't think that for one second Arcadia won't just decide to exit Macross altogether if their products are going to be stolen and replicated. This isn't Takara where that business can be absorbed in other ways, either volume or with other profitable properties.

I'd go without before I bought a KO. Which is completely different than a 3rd party, alternate design, of an already made product or character.

-b.

Oh, boo.  Arcadia is too expensive.  They can keep their "non-bootleg" stuff.

[Kanedas Bike]

55 minutes ago, Atheonyirh said:

If Arcadia isn't going to fill a market demand, and someone else will, you're going to have people go with the option that meets demand. That's capitalism for 'ya.

That's assuming Arcadia isn't producing Valkyries the way Yamato did by pure choice. And, yeah I guess if outright theft is your idea of capitalism. 

Every other post is about licensing and what they can or cannot produce.

42 minutes ago, amptor said:

Oh, boo.  Arcadia is too expensive.  They can keep their "non-bootleg" stuff.

Boo? lol

You miss my point - my point is that I wish Arcadia WAS more affordable for everyone so that there wasn't an atmosphere where people would (apparently) happily embrace a stolen product.

But hey - you're in for merchandise made off of stolen goods or ideas. Good for you!

-b.

[Atheonyirh]

26 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

That's assuming Arcadia isn't producing Valkyries the way Yamato did by pure choice. And, yeah I guess if outright theft is your idea of capitalism. 

I didn't make a judgment on the right or wrong of it. But it is pretty simple economics. Besides, capitalism isn't exactly well known for being polite in obeying laws when there's profit or market share to be had.

If something is in demand but the only source of it is an inflated secondary market then it's ripe for someone to swoop in and provide a replacement at lower cost to meet that demand. Right or wrong, theft or not, that's just the reality of the situation. A sealed Max or Millia's 1/60 VF-1J goes for, what, $600 or so now from what I saw? It's perfectly understandable for people to find that price absurd. It's also perfectly understandable that people are going to start looking really, really closely when someone else starts manufacturing knock-off copies of those Max/Millia VF-1Js at a drastically lower price. If Arcadia's business model is such that they can't afford to reprint an existing mold in a specific set of colors to meet demand, than their business model isn't proving sufficient to meet demand for their items. I mean, it's just iterations of the VF-1. Different head, different colors, maybe slap in some FAST Packs depending on the version, different tampo printing maybe. They could follow Bandai's business model of doing web exclusive pre-orders and manufacturing to match demand if they're that concerned with over-producing stock, which is apparently what did Yamato in eventually if I'm remembering things right.

I know I'm vaguely tempted by it if only because a mistake on my part resulted in most of my 1/60 scale VF-1s ending up yellowed to varying severity. But I'll probably remain content with my Hi-Metal Rs due to the smaller size being convenient. Depending on price, availability, and quality I might just be tempted though. That's not even just economics, that's human nature in general. If I can spend, say, $300 for an item that's no longer being manufactured and is only available via secondary markets ooooor spend, say, $90 for the same item of comparable quality, why would I spend $300 on the secondary market just to have the official version when the original manufacturer doesn't benefit anyways at that point? If that second version is of clearly inferior quality, but only say $50, even that can be tempting from a cost-benefit analysis standpoint. If we end up with Transformers Masterpiece style KOs you could end up looking at a near perfect replica, with say minor paint issues or a bit of flash or something, for well under $100. The right or wrong of that aside, it's not hard to understand why people thirsty for VF-1 toys could find that tempting.

The whole thing definitely calls back to when the 1/55th scale toys got bootlegged and people were buying them up for customs, repairs, or just plain to give to kids because they were actually toy level priced rather than the secondary market prices that original chunkymonkeys demanded at that point.

[Pedro2k6]

2 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Curious. Hey Pedro, can you post the pic directly? It says only members can see the post. Thanks!

 

No problem my friend.

P.s: Not my pics.

 

[jenius]

If Arcadia didn't buy the display stand mold from the folding Yamato then it's possible that "knock off" is made from the original mold. 

[spanner]

I pre-ordered a set of Max & Milia VF-1J from Taobao.. deposit was only about $8 so if it doesn't actually become a thing then no biggie. I usually waste more than that on coffees from Maccas & Gloria Jeans everyday..

So anyways, if these M&M's prove worthy enough then I'll put them on display and box up my stupidly expensive originals. Im kinda itching to see how well these things actually turn out!

Of course I'll still buy the genuine thing from Arcadia if they actually release something I wan't but these KO's could be a good chance to pump the VF-1 Valkyrie count quite cheaply! And being cheap means they perfect for customizing! Better than butchering genuine items..

Edited March 26, 2017 by spanner

[spanner]

I've never owned one of those display stands so if I wasn't aware it was a copy I would have taken it for genuine! looks pretty well finished!

[Convectuoso]

I think...

...as long as people are aware that thay are buying KOs, is up to everyone. What would really bother me would be people selling KOs as original figures, as it happens with Figmas and Nendoroids, for instance. EBay is flooded with examples of that, and is troublesome as it makes it hard to buy real products. 

[sh9000]

3 hours ago, spanner said:

I pre-ordered a set of Max & Milia VF-1J from Taobao.. deposit was only about $8 so if it doesn't actually become a thing then no biggie. I usually waste more than that on coffees from Maccas & Gloria Jeans everyday..

So anyways, if these M&M's prove worthy enough then I'll put them on display and box up my stupidly expensive originals. Im kinda itching to see how well these things actually turn out!

Of course I'll still buy the genuine thing from Arcadia if they actually release something I wan't but these KO's could be a good chance to pump the VF-1 Valkyrie count quite cheaply! And being cheap means they perfect for customizing! Better than butchering genuine items..

Was there a link for an English version of the site or did you use engtaobao?

[HardlyNever]

7 hours ago, spanner said:

I pre-ordered a set of Max & Milia VF-1J from Taobao.. deposit was only about $8 so if it doesn't actually become a thing then no biggie. I usually waste more than that on coffees from Maccas & Gloria Jeans everyday..

So anyways, if these M&M's prove worthy enough then I'll put them on display and box up my stupidly expensive originals. Im kinda itching to see how well these things actually turn out!

Of course I'll still buy the genuine thing from Arcadia if they actually release something I wan't but these KO's could be a good chance to pump the VF-1 Valkyrie count quite cheaply! And being cheap means they perfect for customizing! Better than butchering genuine items..

If the KO's are of comparable quality, won't the real-world value of the official originals go down pretty significantly as well?  I know some people will always want the real thing, but you gotta imagine that the demand for the real deal will go down quite a bit.

[frankell05]

I generally disagree with kos, but I agree with many opinions in here for both sides . Regardless at the end there is one thing that discourages me from kos in general.  You can always say this company did this and  that, but remember that most macros stuff comes from a few creators that made this. In some cases like Disney (which I dislike)  the corporation owns everything, but in other cases like with shoji kawamori , we have a more direct relationship with the creator of things we like. What we are doing here is really following a designer and his creations. We eagerly wait to see what the next design is and pre order the crap out of it. It may be a company that manufactures the toy, but most of these designs come from this guys head, (I'm sure with some help from Other designers). At the end of the day if companies that have licenses have issues with selling their products , they may loose Interest, but the creators of the stuff we like get shafted as well. Why should kawamori bother to design stuff for his fans , if they are just gonna buy kos that don't compensate him for his work?  For me, it's the fact that when you bootleg from creator Owned properties , it discourages the creators from putting all the hard work into making the things they love. As for big companies , I gene really dislike business practices that take advantage of low wage labor , but that's a subject I think should be address by international regulation, not crappy capitalism, where the usually the smaller business loose . It shouldn't be the consumers responsability alone to protect creators .

[jenius]

Oh yes, for sure, it will definitely put a ceiling on the value of the originals. I doubt they'll do the rainbow canopies which will be cool because you'll instantly be able to see if you're getting an original or KO on many of the releases. 

[frankell05]

One last thing, once something is completely out of print with no hope, kos filling that gap for ridiculously overpriced aftermarket prices seems to me like the only ethically reasonable argument or subject worth debating about kos to me. 

[spanner]

6 hours ago, sh9000 said:

Was there a link for an English version of the site or did you use engtaobao?

I just used Google to translate the original site.. 

1 hour ago, jenius said:

Oh yes, for sure, it will definitely put a ceiling on the value of the originals. I doubt they'll do the rainbow canopies which will be cool because you'll instantly be able to see if you're getting an original or KO on many of the releases. 

Depending on how well the KO's are made then I certainly hope there is an easy way to distinguish between them. Im sure you'll then have people trying to sell KO's as the genuine thing without original packaging for example..

1 hour ago, frankell05 said:

One last thing, once something is completely out of print with no hope, kos filling that gap for ridiculously overpriced aftermarket prices seems to me like the only ethically reasonable argument or subject worth debating about kos to me. 

Agreed. 

[spanner]

7 hours ago, sh9000 said:

Was there a link for an English version of the site or did you use engtaobao?

Tried logging in to the engtaobao site with the same log in details to the Chinese site and it doesn't work. Also I tried doing a search for the KO VF-1 and it says it cannot find the product. So I assume the two sites are completely independent of each other perhaps?

Edited March 26, 2017 by spanner

[Loop]

Looks like it may go beyond the VF-1?

From what I can tell they are planning the YF-19,YF-21 & VF-22 possibly the VF-19, not sure about the VF-19 though.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Loop

[no3Ljm]

10 minutes ago, Loop said:

Looks like it may go beyond the VF-1?

From what I can tell they are planning the 19,21 & 22 possibly the VF-19, not sure about the VF-19 though.

Ouch. 

 

[no3Ljm]

23 hours ago, Pedro2k6 said:

No problem my friend.

P.s: Not my pics.

Thanks Pedro! That looks interesting. Somehow it has that EvoToys looking plastic.

 

[spanner]

46 minutes ago, Loop said:

Looks like it may go beyond the VF-1?

From what I can tell they are planning the YF-19,YF-21 & VF-22 possibly the VF-19, not sure about the VF-19 though.

very interesting indeed! I was thinking what would be next after the VF-1 and I guess this answers that! 

would seem to be some very busy people in China! LOL! 

I'll most likely buy one of em to customize.. I wouldn't mind a whole fleet of Valkyrie's in Russian colors! 

Edited March 26, 2017 by spanner

[wmkjr]

54 minutes ago, Loop said:

Looks like it may go beyond the VF-1?

From what I can tell they are planning the YF-19,YF-21 & VF-22 possibly the VF-19, not sure about the VF-19 though.

*snip*

I think they're talking about the fold booster compatability.

[spanner]

2 minutes ago, wmkjr said:

I think they're talking about the fold booster compatability.

yes you are right. I just did a google translate and it specifies "does not include figure aircraft"

either way, it would be good if they did make other Valkyrie's..

[Xigfrid]

3 minutes ago, wmkjr said:

I think they're talking about the fold booster compatability.

I think too. If they ever could make a YF-19 that easily, they could also take over bandai and Arcadia and make their own business with licensing etc

[Xigfrid]

The M&M VF-1 are really suspicious, don't you think it would be only the super parts with their specific coloring?

[spanner]

3 minutes ago, Xigfrid said:

The M&M VF-1 are really suspicious, don't you think it would be only the super parts with their specific coloring?

I'll have to check that out.. you kinda got me worried now, although it would be an easy cancel.

[mog_kupo]

I wouldnt mind gettin a fold booster

[UN Spacy]

On 3/25/2017 at 10:25 AM, Atheonyirh said:

If Arcadia isn't going to fill a market demand, and someone else will, you're going to have people go with the option that meets demand. That's capitalism for 'ya.

 

Yes but they're STEALING their molds. At least put their own effort into it. This is just  lazy and looking to make a quick buck. If you're backing this filth then you're part of the problem.

[sh9000]

I honestly didn't know where to find these but thanks for your direct link of where to buy them.

[Giantman]

SO, i just sent the link to rocket punch army on fb messenger.  He was unaware of them yet.  Says he's going to look into it.

[Muzaffar]

8 hours ago, Loop said:

Looks like it may go beyond the VF-1?

From what I can tell they are planning the YF-19,YF-21 & VF-22 possibly the VF-19, not sure about the VF-19 though.

This is great news!  The originals are just so damn expensive that I cant get myself to enjoy them fully.  I'm afraid to break em.  But now I can get a KO and finally manhandle it to death.  Thank you KOs.   

[seti88]

Don't thank the KO's just yet until its released. They might just turn out to be a brittle floppy mess.

[spanner]

13 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Don't thank the KO's just yet until its released. They might just turn out to be a brittle floppy mess.

hehe! yeah they might only last one transformation and then fall to bits! Like the Blues Brothers car at the end of the film!

Or a VF-171..

[sh9000]

If I were to get the KO M&M and they fell apart I'd just glue them back together and keep them in Fighter mode.  Already have a set of originals in Battroid mode and another set MIB.

[Lolicon]

I think I'll try the M&M KOs since I never got the Yamato releases and the aftermarket prices are ridiculous (and not a single yen of it goes to Arcadia anyway). 

I'll still buy the official releases if Arcadia ever reissues them. 20k yen is a bargain compared to current prices. 

[jvmacross]

Will these reach ebay?  If so, I may bite.....