treatment Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) I tell yah. They got Macross, then Macross Plus, then Macross Zero. May be it's time for Macross 1/2. You know, have a valkryie that turns into a girl when doused with space water, or a bug (coz kawamori luvs bugs), or something... Edited January 31, 2017 by treatment Quote
seti88 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 56 minutes ago, kajnrig said: If it's anything like Gundam Thunderbolt jazz, then no thanks. ...bring back the Seatbelts, though... lolz... jazz is indeed an acquired taste, there are so many more musical genre's kawamori! (Of course i agree that idol-pop does pay the bills) And i would still like him to try a male rock lead again... Am not sure if anyone has time to put on seatbelts tho...it seems like a jump in and fly macross universe with ex gears! It would be cool though if it got a lil grounded... 42 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: We already got an OVA that's all flash and no substance with a nonsense plot... it's called Macross Zero. Enjoyed M0 despite all its ecology mumbo-jumbo. I recognize kawamori's efforts in trying to make the show not all abt war and have a morality side story to go along. 41 minutes ago, Vifam7 said: No. No more pandering to the fujoshi. How about Enka Macross? That would fit in very well with LADY M!! Hows abt it kawamori!!! 1 minute ago, treatment said: I tell yah. They got Macross, then Macross Plus, then Macross Zero. May be it's time for Macros 1/2. You know, have a valkryie that turns into a girl when doused with space water or a bug (coz kawamori luvs bugs) or something... Taking a trip down memory lane today arent we? Quote
kajnrig Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, treatment said: I tell yah. They got Macross, then Macross Plus, then Macross Zero. May be it's time for Macross 1/2. You know, have a valkryie that turns into a girl when doused with space water or a bug (coz kawamori luvs bugs) or something... Loving this post too much right now. EDIT: 6 minutes ago, seti88 said: lolz... jazz is indeed an acquired taste, there are so many more musical genre's kawamori! (Of course i agree that idol-pop does pay the bills) And i would still like him to try a male rock lead again... Oh, I like jazz just fine, it's just what I heard from (admittedly only the first episode of) Thunderbolt didn't hit my ear well. Am not sure if anyone has time to put on seatbelts tho...it seems like a jump in and fly macross universe with ex gears! It would be cool though if it got a lil grounded... I was talking about this Seatbelts: Taking a trip down memory lane today arent we? And boy, what a fun trip it is so far. Edited January 31, 2017 by kajnrig Quote
HannouHeiki Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 18 hours ago, Sandman said: LOL, Right. Delta was successful, so what, it's irrelevant. It was still a terrible show IMO. Just because Delta was successful, it doesn't make it a good show. The Transformers live action movies are a perfect example of that. I fail to see the point of your post. It reads like you're personally offended by the comments. People can state their opinion weather they like or dislike a show. Fans in both camps have posted in this thread without getting all touchy about it. If it irritates you so much then i suggest you don't read the thread. Dear Mr. Sandman, Thank you for explaining to me that Delta being successful is irrelevant. I did not think about the live action Transformer movies. The explanation is so perfect, that I can completely understand why my post had no clear point. Thank you for your psychoanalysis of me. I didn't realize that I wasn't speaking plainly. Rather, I now see that I was driven by some form of self defense in that I treated descriptions of Delta as "crap" or slams against Kawamori as if they were attacks against my personal self. I'll take your suggestion of not reading this thread so that I can avoid suffering further feelings of personal offense. Best Regards, Cordially, Sincerely, and Yours Truly, H.H. Quote
treatment Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 44 minutes ago, seti88 said: Taking a trip down memory lane today arent we? Coz I just got my SHFs... 38 minutes ago, HannouHeiki said: Best Regards, Cordially, Sincerely, and Yours Truly, H.H. You're being such a downer, mang. Chill out and have some idol music to cool down... Quote
mikeszekely Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Hold up... I didn't follow any of the Delta threads, because I was busy having a kid and what not and didn't really have a chance to sit down and watch it until we went to visit my wife's parents in China back in October. Was the general consensus here that they didn't like Delta? Because I thought it was much better than Frontier. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gordon Freeman said: Wrong again. You need to find a better source than Wikipedia. Nemoto only did up to Episode 14. No, I am not wrong... you are, I'm afraid, and I can prove it. You claim Nemoto didn't write any episode after #14. I'm certainly looking forward to your explanation of this screen capture from Episode 26, which shows him being credited with the screenplay for that episode. Shoji Kawamori did not write ANY of the 26 screenplays used in Macross Delta.In point of fact, Toshizo Nemoto has a solo screenplay writing credit on episodes 1-6, 9, 10, 12-15, 19, 21, and 23-26. He's also credited as co-writing the screenplay for episode 8 with Ukyo Kodachi. Episodes 7, 11, 17, 18, and 22 had their screenplays written by Tatsuo Higuchi. Episodes 16 and 20 had screenplays by Touko Machida. Apart from directing and being chief director, Kawamori's only credits are shared credits for storyboarding on episodes 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, 14, 16, 17, and 22, and solo storyboard credits on episodes 13 and 26. I can provide screen captures from the credits to attest to all of these facts. You can't blame Kawamori for the writing in Macross Delta because he demonstrably didn't write it. Like George Lucas or Gene Roddenberry or Yoshiyuki Tomino he comes up with some weird stuff and can really make a hard-to-watch show when he's left to his own devices. That's why, just like all those other blokes I just named, his ideas are developed by other people who actually outline the series and write the screenplays. This new series will likely be no different in that respect. Kawamori will lob a concept over the wall and the designated writers will pick it apart, tweak it into new shapes, flesh it out, and punt it back over the wall as a screenplay for storyboarding. That's how it worked on every Macross series except for Macross II: Lovers Again, which he didn't work on. 1 hour ago, Gordon Freeman said: What current Macross fans? When the latest franchise poorly tries to make Space Nazi's sympathetic? While trying to ripoff the Love Live/Idolm@ster formula. When said show was airing at the same time? Without caring about what made those shows good in the eyes of its fans? If Kawamori wants older members of the fandom to tell newer fans to watch it. He needs to make something good instead of being blatant and pretentious with his story. Franchise seems to be doin' just fine, the DX's are still selling like hotcakes, the video games are coming out regularly, manga titles are in serialization, novelizations coming out regularly, Walkure playing to packed houses and regularly charting near the top... it would seem like, while Delta was not the strongest offering to date, plenty of fans found it eminently watchable and good. So I suppose it's a YMMV thing between your special personal definition of "good" and that of the target audience. 1 hour ago, treatment said: I tell yah. They got Macross, then Macross Plus, then Macross Zero. May be it's time for Macross 1/2. You know, have a valkryie that turns into a girl when doused with space water, or a bug (coz kawamori luvs bugs), or something... Y'know, I'm pretty sure one of the Macross Quarter-class ships mentioned in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah was the Macross Half. IIRC there was a Macross One-Third too. Come to that, I'd be down for either another show in the 2060s with a Macross Quarter-class or a historical title set between the original series and Plus ala Macross M3. Hell, I'd love to see them go back and animate Macross 2036... some VF-1 action AND a grown-up Komilia? 1 hour ago, seti88 said: Enjoyed M0 despite all its ecology mumbo-jumbo. I recognize kawamori's efforts in trying to make the show not all abt war and have a morality side story to go along. 's that what that was? I honestly couldn't find an Aesop in Zero, it was either really well hidden by all the Kadun stuff or not there at all. Zero was damned pretty, but would've been a lot better if the plot wasn't so obtuse. That's one reason I want a longer run from this new series, so there isn't the opportunity for there to be too much plot left at the end of the episode... I want to avoid the kind of situation that necessitates either exposition dumps like Delta did or incredible vagueness like Zero resorted to. 1 hour ago, kajnrig said: I was talking about this Seatbelts: And boy, what a fun trip it is so far. I am 210% OK with The Seatbelts doing music for a Macross series... just puttin' that out there. Still, I somehow can't help but picture something like TM Revolution being used for a Macross the Ride-style series. Edited January 31, 2017 by Seto Kaiba Quote
azrael Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 19 minutes ago, mikeszekely said: Hold up... I didn't follow any of the Delta threads, because I was busy having a kid and what not and didn't really have a chance to sit down and watch it until we went to visit my wife's parents in China back in October. Was the general consensus here that they didn't like Delta? Because I thought it was much better than Frontier. Here's the series poll we had. Quote
mikeszekely Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, azrael said: Here's the series poll we had. Thanks, Az. I did the poll, and it definitely looks like I'm in the minority. Guess I still win, though, since I didn't spend 26 episodes hate-watching a show just because it was Macross since I genuinely enjoyed it. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Just now, mikeszekely said: Thanks, Az. I did the poll, and it definitely looks like I'm in the minority. Guess I still win, though, since I didn't spend 26 episodes hate-watching a show just because it was Macross since I genuinely enjoyed it. I'd call that a victory of sorts, yeah. The poll doesn't quite capture the truth of the matter... there were a lot of us who liked the individual pieces of the show, but felt the writing didn't effectively gel them together into a whole greater than the sum of its parts. As a result, I think there's high hopes for this next series being able to more effectively merge the stunning visuals that've become standard fare with their newest story. Quote
kajnrig Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: Walkure playing to packed houses and regularly charting near the top... ... 's that what that was? I honestly couldn't find an Aesop in Zero, it was either really well hidden by all the Kadun stuff or not there at all. 1) So... do the VAs/singers kayfabe as the characters, or are they just themselves in a group that happens to share the same name as their anime counterparts? 2) Do they release their own songs, or are they just doing the same ones they sang in Delta? 3) I remember Zero having a sort of environmentalism edge to it, with Kadun symbolizing environmentally (and/or just generally) destructive technologies/character aspects of mankind, but it was always tenuous and got swept aside to make room for more robot bang-bangs and giant alien flower gods. EDIT: Also, since I'm still having a good time here in the past: It's another idol group cosplaying as their characters, so it's sort of topical. Yes? Edited January 31, 2017 by kajnrig Quote
seti88 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, kajnrig said: Loving this post too much right now. EDIT: Oh, I like jazz just fine, it's just what I heard from (admittedly only the first episode of) Thunderbolt didn't hit my ear well. I was talking about this Seatbelts: And boy, what a fun trip it is so far. LOL makes sense now why you suddenly talked abt seatbelts! Me and my ex gears! 40 minutes ago, treatment said: Coz I just got my SHFs... Ooo nice.. SHF Ranma's? Must be fun attempting all the cartoon poses, quite a natural logical progression into nostalgia mode! 13 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said: 's that what that was? I honestly couldn't find an Aesop in Zero, it was either really well hidden by all the Kadun stuff or not there at all. Zero was damned pretty, but would've been a lot better if the plot wasn't so obtuse. That's one reason I want a longer run from this new series, so there isn't the opportunity for there to be too much plot left at the end of the episode... I want to avoid the kind of situation that necessitates either exposition dumps like Delta did or incredible vagueness like Zero resorted to. I am 210% OK with The Seatbelts doing music for a Macross series... just puttin' that out there. Still, I somehow can't help but picture something like TM Revolution being used for a Macross the Ride-style series. One might think the plot suffers cos there are too many ideas crammed into a series. *cough delta cough* In that sense, yea i hope the plot flows better in the new series, however seeing at how popular delta was in JP, i am not holding my breath for a scenario that has much variance. So am putting my hopes into better valk designs and such. side note: while replying on plot, gundam IBO did pop into my mind, and if macross could achieve similarly on the story flow with interesting chars and mecha designs, am sure it would launch macross into a new uncharted direction...but of course macross is macross... 15 minutes ago, kajnrig said: 3) I remember Zero having a sort of environmentalism edge to it, with Kadun symbolizing environmentally (and/or just generally) destructive technologies/character aspects of mankind, but it was always tenuous and got swept aside to make room for more robot bang-bangs and giant alien flower gods. M0 .. ignore the quietly simmering Pocahontas vibe in the background.... Quote
Roy Focker Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Hey guys remember at the end of the day it is still just a cartoon. The original Macross series was made for and by anime fans. Every sequel since has been motivated by business. Kawamori was done with Macross until he wanted to tell new stories and discovered it is easier to get things made if you call it Macross. I don't have high hopes for this new series. The turn around is too quick. They don't make new Macross series because they're fans of anime or for critical acclaim. They make them because they're a business that needs keep their people employed. Whether it is good or bad we're going to get whatever they believe is profitable.. Quote
Sandman Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 4 hours ago, HannouHeiki said: Dear Mr. Sandman, Thank you for explaining to me that Delta being successful is irrelevant. I did not think about the live action Transformer movies. The explanation is so perfect, that I can completely understand why my post had no clear point. Thank you for your psychoanalysis of me. I didn't realize that I wasn't speaking plainly. Rather, I now see that I was driven by some form of self defense in that I treated descriptions of Delta as "crap" or slams against Kawamori as if they were attacks against my personal self. I'll take your suggestion of not reading this thread so that I can avoid suffering further feelings of personal offense. Best Regards, Cordially, Sincerely, and Yours Truly, H.H. Your welcome. First one is free, each consecutive one will cost ya. Quote
aerocombatpilot Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Quote I would prefer one 2 hour movie in the same caliber of DYRL or Macross Plus than 10 TV shows that end up like frontier or Delta! Quote
Convectuoso Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 If they are going to make a whole new series, I'd like to see a different kind of story, where the protagonist is not a civilian turned to combat pilot, but rather a former VF pilot, who runs into an alien girl, falls in love, but then has to fight for her when the UN government wants to seize her for experiments.... Something like that. Not the usual story. Or they could just do "Macross Delta: The Remake - This time for real" Quote
Marzan Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Like I've mentioned before, I believe the speed with which we're getting a new TV series (with an announcement in a Walkure concert no less) makes me think that this will be a story in the Macross Delta universe. It could be a retelling (that's more likely to happen in a movie), a sequel or even a prequel. A sequel could keep on using Walkure as it's musical vehicle, and maybe move onto a new love triangle with Freyja taking a step back as MC. Quote
Lorindor Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 I'm with Marzan. If I'm not mistaken, Kawamori has said that he struggled to come up with the concept of Delta and it took also a long time to get it greenlighted with the production committee. I doubt they've got a completely new concept ready already. Also, just prepairing all the animation assets and other production details takes a good while. My guess is therefore that the announced movies are just Delta recap movies released as promotion before the series, which will be a Delta sequel. I can be wrong, and I surely hope we get something new and original instead, but I keep my expectations down. Quote
Cowboy17 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, HannouHeiki said: When people use words like: crap, terrible --and then belittle Kawamori, it doesn't exactly make people who feel differently feel welcome here. There are cleaner forms of criticism. Mazinger's pondering of staying off the forums, and a couple other similar sentiments, is indicative of a problem here. A news announcment about a new Macross series shouldn't make MWF remind people of RT boards or encourage people to leave or go into lurk mode. When a post like this is routine, ESPECIALLY in an announcement thread, what's the point in current Macross fans even bothering to come to these forums? As a whole, MWF should be a good steward to the franchise in general. If you aren't getting what you like, think of ways to demonstrate that you're a viable market worth spending resources on and get your voices heard. People who belittle and lash out are a zero economic quantity. Nobody has gone after anyone else though. At least not that I've seen (edit: ok, i see one angry guy). Saying something was "crap" is simply someone's opinion, and posters shouldn't take it personally. People can dislike things other people like, people shouldn't be starting fights over it. Edited January 31, 2017 by Cowboy17 Quote
treatment Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Convectuoso said: If they are going to make a whole new series, I'd like to see a different kind of story, where the protagonist is not a civilian turned to combat pilot, but rather a former VF pilot, who runs into an alien girl, falls in love, but then has to fight for her when the UN government wants to seize her for experiments.... Something like that. Not the usual story. That sounds alot like Macross 7, except with Rey in the lead. So Pink Peckers, why not? And/Or, actually, a Macross-II remake. Moar uber sexay Ishtar plz!!! Edited January 31, 2017 by treatment Quote
azrael Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 How about 1 girl and 2 guys in the triangle for a change? Last time we had that was M7. Quote
Master Dex Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 48 minutes ago, azrael said: How about 1 girl and 2 guys in the triangle for a change? Last time we had that was M7. I think that'd be fair. Or a 2 girls one guy but one of the girls is the center choosing between the other girl and the guy. That'd be different. As for 7, it was more of a love dodecahedron I think lol. Quote
treatment Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 They should just go the Captain Tylor route on this upcoming TV series. Heck! Just do a Nadesico-style Macross TV series! It'll be a new full-circle Macross trope! Quote
anime52k8 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 I still want to see a single male Idol protagonist with like a half dozen female love interests. Quote
dizman Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, anime52k8 said: I still want to see a single male Idol protagonist with like a half dozen female love interests. Watch Macross 7 again, close enough . Quote
brouken Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Spent about 30 minutes reading through this thread and I must say that it's been a while since I've been as entertained. :-D My few seconds' (of your precious attention) worth: Macross Frontier was to me a good balance between treading into new ground and giving appreciative nods to the original SDF and DRYL fans. It isn't perfect, but it hit the right notes for me as an "old timer" Macross fan. IMO Delta's mistake was that it lost that balance. There were a lot of call outs that only long time fans would appreciate, but these ended up being so poorly timed that they went flat rather than set off an explosive twist that got me excited for the next episode (Example: ending of MacF episode 12 " Fastest Delivery"). That and the severe drought of valkyrie action for a good part of the series (unforgivable!). I agree though that in the end, my sentiments will probably count as next to nothing compared to the commercial interests of the franchise owners. The market will and most probably already has determined what we will see in the next series. There will probably be more idol groups (because they're hot right now), there will be valkyries (because the toys literally get sold out even before they're even manufactured), and the writing will probably be bad (because they have to cut costs somewhere, right?) :-) To end with a positive note though, I do hope that they'll once again find a good balance and come up with a series that Macross fans (old AND new) will enjoy. Quote
Vifam7 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, anime52k8 said: I still want to see a single male Idol protagonist with like a half dozen female love interests. Why just limit to just a half-dozen? Be like Cobra! Following image NSFW Spoiler And yes, all the girls should be topless. Edited January 31, 2017 by Vifam7 Quote
treatment Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, anime52k8 said: I still want to see a single male Idol protagonist with like a half dozen female love interests. 9 minutes ago, dizman said: Watch Macross 7 again, close enough . Let's see if i can remember it correctly... Mylene, Rex, Emilia, Flower Girl, Sivil, Elma, Chlore, and Gamlin, That should be close enough, right? If not, add the Melty's from Chlore's fleet... Quote
Sandman Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 We all know a Macross Harem show will be a reality one day. Quote
Raptor One Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 6 hours ago, azrael said: How about 1 girl and 2 guys in the triangle for a change? Last time we had that was M7. I just want more female pilots that actually get to do something 5 hours ago, Master Dex said: I think that'd be fair. Or a 2 girls one guy but one of the girls is the center choosing between the other girl and the guy. That'd be different. I would love to see something like this. So much so that I'm doing something similar in the fanfic I'm currently working on 3 hours ago, anime52k8 said: I still want to see a single male Idol protagonist with like a half dozen female love interests. A male idol who doesn't pilot along with two female pilots Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 5 hours ago, treatment said: They should just go the Captain Tylor route on this upcoming TV series. Heck! Just do a Nadesico-style Macross TV series! It'll be a new full-circle Macross trope! So... a Macross story about a group of misfits and incompetents who triumph over adversity more by luck than good judgment? We just got done with that. 38 minutes ago, Raptor One said: I just want more female pilots that actually get to do something Yes please! I'm sick of having to get my badass lady fighter pilot fix from Macross manga and light novels. Gimme another Milia, Komilia, Sylvie, or Chelsea please! Quote
Master Dex Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 42 minutes ago, Raptor One said: I would love to see something like this. So much so that I'm doing something similar in the fanfic I'm currently working on I had an idea for a fanfic that would use that as well.. but I have no time to write sadly. Quote
RedWolf Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Sandman said: We all know a Macross Harem show will be a reality one day. So an idol, a bridge bunny and a pilot? It looks to me this is planned in advanced alongside Macross Delta being in a short time. I hope we get a follow up on Berger Stone and Epsilon Foundation as they totally got away in Macross Delta with tons of data from the Drakens to the Protoculture systems. Quote
Scream Man Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Im cool for a loose sequel to Delta. Bring in a new Idol or two, a new pilot or two, and have them close out the story of the Windermere war. Give us some new planes. Keep the balance a bit better, make sure you remember you're an action show as well as an idol show and use both. Keep up the good work with yoour characters, but work on the plot some more so we dont have to have exposition episodes (Berger explains it all). Or do something different. I'm in anyway. Quote
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