New Macross TV Series in 20xx (sometime this decade)

[Wolf-1]

1 hour ago, Sanity is Optional said:

The series really focused on Hikaru, and his character development. As far as Minmay factored into that, it was mainly him learning to give up on her, or at least to give up on trying to be her boyfriend.

I can't argue that we see the story unfold more through Hikaru's eyes than anyone else but at every major turn in the series, Minmay or her Music is front and center, except the kissing scene in the series which was then switched out in DYRL.  What the original and Plus and even Zero got right, was we saw characters go through an entire arc and got an ending whether we liked it not.  All the others, we resolve the Fleet issue but leave pretty much all else up in the air.  

[kajnrig]

18 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

I mean, we really are going around in circles with this discussion (pretty sure we were all talking about the same stuff 15 pages back). Mind you, I love the debate, I just find it amusing we keep coming back to this.

i'm sorry i tried to stop myself i really did but i'm like an alcoholic and it's freshly-distilled moonshine

 

 

 

But seriously, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, just saying that "people who want something to be like A aren't aware that B actually did better than A" is missing the point.

I agree that 7 hews more closely than Plus to what Macross historically has been, that it has more "pure" Macross in its blood than Plus. But even so, I still think that Plus (the movie) is the better of the two (and indeed the best of the franchise). It's not better because it veers furthest from or sticks closest to whatever someone thinks the Macross formula is, or because it's the best- or worst-performing entry; it's better because it's better.

...but then I suspect Seto, having been part of this community way longer than I have, has different persons in mind when he refers to "a lot of western fans" than I think he does. Anyway. Still looking forward to the new series, would love if it was like Plus, wouldn't mind one bit if it wasn't (well, okay maybe I would mind one or two bits but only one or two), would love an air show as the locus of events, would love to see a singer who does it for fun instead of as a job.

[Master Dex]

No worries bro. I think the statement about Plus vs 7 there is opinion rather than objective fact, but that's ok because everyone should have their own opinions (it'd be boring if we always agreed). Fwiw, I generally agree that Plus is more entertaining in totality than 7, though the vastly differing lengths does alter my rating criteria a lot. Neither here nor there though, so whatever. You're good, heh.

More than likely Seto, while not referring to any specific people regardless of how many may have spoken up here recently on the topic, is referring to people with more pronounced viewpoints than yours when discussing the overall quality in terms of themes vs plot styles that we've ultimately been debating. I don't want to speak for him however so I'll leave my assumption at that.

I think a lot of us would find the air show concept to be a fun basis for this story, if only for how unique it would be (for a show at least, since it's only been done in a light novel) and because it was what Kawamori wanted for Delta originally and I think creators should get to do their desired stories. However Kawamori is known to be rather flighty (hah) with his inspirations... he may be off that and on a new concept by now.

[sketchley]

9 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic, but while neither of you are wrong, the two only align if one chooses to align them. Or if "audience reception" is one of the values that inform one's judgment of a piece of work, if you will. And I don't know many people for whom that is the case. I certainly don't think a movie or book or what-have-you is good just or even partly because lots of other people do. I don't think Naruto or Twilight or Gundam are particularly good, though a lot of people do. Popular opinion of something doesn't often play into my calculus.

I mean, your citing popular opinion as part of a larger point about feeding audience demand in order to maximize profitability and whatnot is all well and good, as is the one tying it to the overarching themes of the franchise, but on its own, the comparison of audience reactions is not particularly relevant. I (and others, for different reasons perhaps) simply don't care that more people took a liking to 7 than Plus. It's still the worse of the two.

To be honest, I was interpreting "well received" in something along the lines of "there was enough interest in it to make a profit for the production company"... and Seto's post kinda twisted my interpretation all around.

So, please don't stop being pedantic on my sake.  Just note that my interpretation is different from the one Seto posted. 

 

I'll refrain from posting my opinion on Delta, but I will say this:  I'm happy that it was good enough with the people who readily open their wallets for such things, that the sponsors have decided to give Big West et al the funds to make a new series so soon.

 

[sketchley]

5 hours ago, Master Dex said:

No worries bro. I think the statement about Plus vs 7 there is opinion rather than objective fact, but that's ok because everyone should have their own opinions (it'd be boring if we always agreed). Fwiw, I generally agree that Plus is more entertaining in totality than 7, though the vastly differing lengths does alter my rating criteria a lot. Neither here nor there though, so whatever. You're good, heh.

I agree that Plus is more entertaining than 7 (let's just put that in terms of the pacing, and leave it at that for the mo' ).

However, as far as objective fact goes: there's a Firebomber themed bar in Osaka.  I occasionally go there.  Pretty much all of the Japanese fans who go there know about Macross either from 7 or Frontier.  They are often surprised to hear us Western regulars when we say we like SDFM or got into Macross because of SDFM.  Plus, II and so on don't come up.  I don't hear about Delta much, but that could just be like us Westerners talking about how we prefer SDFM (or Plus, or whatever) and don't mention the other shows.

Take whatever one wants from that, but I interpret it as: shows like F, and Delta are where Big West et al are currently making their profit.  I won't be surprised if the next series is similar in tone, etc. to those.

 

Of course, the wild card is Mr. Kawamori.  How much will he concede to the sponsors' demands?  How much will he follow his inspiration and do his own thing?

If memory serves, before Delta he mentioned in an interview that he wanted to get rid of one of the 3 pillars of Macross (but couldn't because of the sponsors).  In a way, the lack of (Valkyrie) action in the later half of Delta begs the question: was that his way of meeting the sponsors demands while doing his own thing, and experimenting with getting rid of one of the 3 pillars of Macross?  And now that that's out of the system, should we expect the opposite in the next series?  (= a Valkyrie focus)

[Einherjar]

God, after 30 pages of derailment this thread really needs a mid-life crisis tag.

[Gerli]

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

God, after 30 pages of derailment this thread really needs a mid-life crisis tag.

Hey! I'm still 39... let me enjoy my youth...

[Wolf-1]

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

God, after 30 pages of derailment this thread really needs a mid-life crisis tag.

Corvettes optional, Valkyrie collections are acceptable substitutes provided you have at least two scales.  Something like that?  

[Bolt]

Concerning the next series and its direction, I feel it will certainly lay out a vector on  where the powers that be are going with it all..

which ultimately doesn't matter to me, unless they stop making Macross stories. 

I'm a fan since 1984 and a "westerner". Macross , as well as most anime , for me has not been what I would have it be, after all these years, oh so true! But I have never stopped loving Macross or anime and will continue to gobble it up. The models and toys are simply awesome and the art is epic! I've always been in it for the long haul. 

So let us share more tidbits about what's coming next and sit back and enjoy..

[Einherjar]

5 hours ago, Wolf-1 said:

Corvettes optional, Valkyrie collections are acceptable substitutes provided you have at least two scales.  Something like that?  

[Seto Kaiba]

17 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Anyway, I think Seto is ultimately right in that what we will likely get is likely not going to jive with certain fans, which isn't necessarily good or bad as long as if profits and allows us to get more Macross in the future. Some fans may not be satisfied with that is the more we get isn't the type they want.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been banging on about... tastes are different between fans in Japan and the west, and since we're barely a rounding error in the grand scheme of the Macross fandom they're not going to pander to our wants and needs where they diverge from those of the Japanese fandom.

 

 

16 hours ago, kajnrig said:

i'm sorry i tried to stop myself i really did but i'm like an alcoholic and it's freshly-distilled moonshine

Suffering blunt metaphors trauma from my alcohol analogy?

 

16 hours ago, kajnrig said:

But seriously, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, just saying that "people who want something to be like A aren't aware that B actually did better than A" is missing the point.

Nobody was making that point though.

The actual point that was being made was that our tastes aren't really under consideration here for development of future Macross shows because we're such a small minority in the overall Macross fandom.  They're going to appeal to their main demographic, the new teenage viewers and Macross fans in Japan... the audience that actually did like Macross Delta, loved Macross 7, and was indifferent to Macross Plus.  It's those people, voting with their wallets and their televisions, who are influencing what goes into the next Macross. 

 

16 hours ago, kajnrig said:

...but then I suspect Seto, having been part of this community way longer than I have, has different persons in mind when he refers to "a lot of western fans" than I think he does.

TBH, I'm mostly thinking of the older fans I talk to on the various Macross groups on Facebook.

Most of them are pretty adamant that 7 was garbage, Delta was garbage, were unsatisfied with Frontier, and seemingly won't settle for anything that isn't the second coming of Macross Plus.  (The other common refrain is the equally-unlikely but far easier to understand bunch who wish for a direct sequel to Macross: Flash Back 2012 to continue the story of Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay.)

The Old Guard here on MacrossWorld... no way.  They were (and are) die-hard Macross 7 fans. and they're generally pretty positive about Macross Delta too.  Their tastes are likely more in tune with Japanese audience's than ours are.  Unfortunately many of them no longer come here for various reasons.  Despite not being the easiest chaps to get along with (the pot calling the kettle black, I know) they were some of our most knowledgeable fans and not having them active here anymore is a loss to the community.  It used to be II that was the whipping boy series before Delta came along.

 

 

5 hours ago, Einherjar said:

God, after 30 pages of derailment this thread really needs a mid-life crisis tag.

Was this topic ever honestly ON the rails?  It was already veering towards the "Man, f*ck Delta" mess with the very first reply, not even an hour after it was posted.

[kajnrig]

27 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The actual point that was being made was that our tastes aren't really under consideration here for development of future Macross shows

Yeah, but knowing that isn't making me NOT want what I want for the development of future Macross shows, is all I'm saying. Bit of a sisyphean thing, that, but it is what it is.

[Dynaman]

9 hours ago, Einherjar said:

God, after 30 pages of derailment this thread really needs a mid-life crisis tag.

It will get right back on track when more news come out on the new series.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

It will get right back on track when more news come out on the new series.

Just two more months, chaps...

(Assuming they're using a similar release schedule to the last two Macross shows.)

[JB0]

On 7/25/2018 at 9:36 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Given what's been said in recent days in this thread and elsewhere, I'm increasingly convinced older fans in the west have simply outgrown Macross.  Or, rather, that Macross has outgrown those fans.  I think it safe to say that this new series will not satisfy them.  The last thing we need from Macross is for it to indulge in Gundam-esque stagnation or regression, and that seems to be a popular demand from the older fans in the west.

Not so much the "rehash the old things again" angle, but I've flat-out said that I'm less of a Macross fan and more an SDF Macross fan. The things I like most about Macross are things that weren't even present in DYRL, much less the shows that came after. It was a remarkably grounded show for what it was, with characters that felt like real people instead of, well, characters.

 

That said, I don't HATE 7, though I think it has some deep flaws. I enjoyed Frontier, and my complaints with Delta are less "OMG MAGICAL GIRLS IN MY SERIOUS WAR STORY WTF" and more "this entire plot collapsed under its own weight at the halfway point, and they've shuffled every interesting subplot into the background and forgotten about it along the way."

[Einherjar]

I looked at the current Robotech comic and thread for it.  That's all I have to say.  It speaks for itself.

[JB0]

8 hours ago, Einherjar said:

I looked at the current Robotech comic and thread for it.  That's all I have to say.  It speaks for itself.

There is more than one way to go wrong. And the RT comic has found several of them.

[TrickyCustomer]

Is there any recent news on the next macross series? I'm still waiting to see the Delta movie and patiently waiting for gundam the origin episode 6.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, TrickyCustomer said:

Is there any recent news on the next macross series? I'm still waiting to see the Delta movie and patiently waiting for gundam the origin episode 6.

Nope.

This latest Macross series appears to be using a similar release timeline to the previous two, so if the pattern holds there won't be any news until at least the end of September (the title announcement) and nothing with any substance to it until the end of October (first trailer).

[TrickyCustomer]

Not too far off to wait then if that is the case. I didn't mind delta but it could definitely be improved. I would like something more like zero or plus. 

[Master Dex]

Now to wait and see if we all fall for that discussion bait again, lol.

[Seto Kaiba]

26 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Now to wait and see if we all fall for that discussion bait again, lol.

*Quietly hums the Final Jeopardy music*

[Marzan]

I think a lot of people are putting too much emphasis on "Delta was not meant for Western fans" angle. Delta's lack of popularity around this parts as far as I can read it, was due to the bad characterization and bad storytelling after episode 13. Not the idols, magical girl angles or the like. I think Kawamori can do pretty much wherever he wants as long as there is a good story and characters behind it. But with Satelights record on that regard lately, I will not hold my breath.

[emajnthis]

3 hours ago, Marzan said:

I think a lot of people are putting too much emphasis on "Delta was not meant for Western fans" angle. Delta's lack of popularity around this parts as far as I can read it, was due to the bad characterization and bad storytelling after episode 13. Not the idols, magical girl angles or the like. I think Kawamori can do pretty much wherever he wants as long as there is a good story and characters behind it. But with Satelights record on that regard lately, I will not hold my breath.

Agreed, I didn't mind the pop culture influences, there was just stagnant character and plot development. Western audiences can deal with weird. I'd argue "weird" is what attracted western audiences to anime in the first place, but strong plot and characters are essential to any story. 

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, being back on topic lasted all of about six and a half hours...

[Master Dex]

*hits stop watch*

New record if we don't count times the thread was dead. 

[Einherjar]

On July 29, 2018 at 5:23 PM, JB0 said:

There is more than one way to go wrong. And the RT comic has found several of them.

All that's left to see is the J-pop as interpreted by the laziest posers in the industry, because no one working on it really had the guts to write out or kill off Minmay for their very serious war story.  I guess it's trying to appeal to most of the people who came to this thread.

[SMS007]

Well for my part, I hope in the next series does not end with liar ultranationalist war criminal antagonists getting away almost scot-free with all the crap they committed and feeling unrepentant about everything.

Seriously, screw that ending.

I loved the TV ending of Frontier because Alto blew up Galaxy's conqueror hides to dust.

So cathartic.

Edited August 1, 2018 by SMS007

[KEV18999]

Wow, I haven't been back here since 2005 or so but want to reply to this topic since I've watched all of Macross pretty much when it was fresh.  I think Delta series is absolutely fresh air and has huge potential but they cut it way too short as opposed to stretching it beyond 1 season.  I love every Macross series, with 7 being my favorite.  I don't consider Zero and Plus being TV series, they are OAVs which are traditionally side stories similar to Gundam's Char's Counterattack or 0083 Stardust Memories.  

Many people like Plus over 7, but they are not the same not even close.  Just about every long running TV anime series have OAV featured films which strays away from the original.  It can be very good or it could be very bad just like the recent Han Solo movie which is a side story.  Enjoy them for what they are, good fillers while you wait for a new series.  And Macross 7 blew me away after years of waiting since Plus.

Now the reason I think 7 is better than original Macross because I never really liked Hikaru.  He has zero personality and no idea why Minmay or Misa likes his kind of bland personality.  7 has a bit of everything but most importantly was the music and finally gets into the origins of protoculture.  Basara is definitely a rebel with a cause and he can be a pain in the butt and one of the strangest characters out there but once you get to know him he is an idealist.  The whole show pits Basara who is anti-war against the military that is pro war and how through Basara's music he was able to stop the destruction.  

Another series that deserve praise is Orguss, definitely has a better story than Macross especially the romance between Kei and Mimsay.   But Macross has the better mecha designs and longer story.

Frontier was good, I liked the series especially the mecha designs and Sheryl.  But I didn't like Alto very much, again no idea why Ranka or Sheryl would like someone who is so hot headed with zero sense of humor.  

Now onto Delta, I think Kawamori is a genius with this series.  He understands that anime is not a money making business, selling toys was traditionally his way of making some money back.  But now, he was able to develop 4 singing talents from the series and they're all pretty good together as Walkure or as solo artists.  Outside of Japan, most people don't care much about Delta but in Japan, Junna and even Minori Suzuki is getting popular being solo artists.    I like to see what they do with Walkure if a new series comes out without them because Walkure is generating money for them and would be sad if they drop the group or discontinue it...

That's all I have to say about the topic.   

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by KEV18999

[JB0]

17 hours ago, Einherjar said:

All that's left to see is the J-pop as interpreted by the laziest posers in the industry, because no one working on it really had the guts to write out or kill off Minmay for their very serious war story.  I guess it's trying to appeal to most of the people who came to this thread.

I don't actually know WHO the RT comic is supposed to appeal to. What I've seen makes me think it is at best a product created to keep the trademarks involved in use, and at worst a Producers-esque scam.

[Dynaman]

> The whole show pits Basara who is anti-war against the military that is pro war and how through Basara's music he was able to stop the destruction. 

That is one of the big problems with the show.  Max is most certainly not pro-war.  They have to make things so extremely wacky for Basara's ideas to have merit that it goes off the rails of believability.  The Hana-Barbera character style certainly doesn't help in that regard.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 8/1/2018 at 10:44 AM, Master Dex said:

*hits stop watch*

New record if we don't count times the thread was dead. 

Ah well, it isn't that long until Halloween... by which point we should have something about the new series to talk about besides how much everyone doesn't like ___________________ in a previous series.

Random question... a newly launched reference site, would you prefer it to start with the new series and go backwards, or start with the oldest and go forwards?

 

 

On 8/1/2018 at 11:40 AM, SMS007 said:

Well for my part, I hope in the next series does not end with liar ultranationalist war criminal antagonists getting away almost scot-free with all the crap they committed and feeling unrepentant about everything.

As I've noted before, it's not like they actually pulled a Karma Houdini... the unspoken consequences of their actions are going to hurt like a cast-iron b*tch in time.  It wouldn't really be Macross's typical upbeat self if the ending was watching Windermere's infrastructure collapse as its economy goes to pieces and the government implodes.

 

On 8/1/2018 at 11:40 AM, SMS007 said:

I loved the TV ending of Frontier because Alto blew up Galaxy's conqueror hides to dust.

No he didn't... he just shot Grace, and who knows if that was even Grace's real/main body.  She has reserves.  The ending of the series shows Macross Galaxy is still out there, they just lost their Battle-class ship and some escorts.

 

 

11 hours ago, KEV18999 said:

The whole show pits Basara who is anti-war against the military that is pro war and how through Basara's music he was able to stop the destruction.  

No it doesn't.  The UN Forces in Macross 7 weren't pro-war... Basara was just too autistic to notice he was the test pilot in a military secret program to improve the Minmay Attack in order to stop battles faster.  His VF-19 and literally every other piece of Sound Force equipment and technology was paid for, developed, built, maintained, repaired, and provisioned by the military.  Poor Colonel Barton put up with so much garbage from Basara despite being responsible for all of Basara's fame and success and just wanting Basara to work with the military so he'd stop getting their pilots killed.  

[Master Dex]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah well, it isn't that long until Halloween... by which point we should have something about the new series to talk about besides how much everyone doesn't like ___________________ in a previous series.

Random question... a newly launched reference site, would you prefer it to start with the new series and go backwards, or start with the oldest and go forwards?

If wishes were stars...

Anyway, does it matter the order if it is all there, or is this like a release timeline? Also is this in lieu of your previous work with Macross Mecha Manual (I do recognize it has not been updated as much but I figure March is busy).

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Master Dex said:

If wishes were stars...

Yeah... well, you can't please some of the people any of the time.

 

Quote

Anyway, does it matter the order if it is all there, or is this like a release timeline? Also is this in lieu of your previous work with Macross Mecha Manual (I do recognize it has not been updated as much but I figure March is busy).

More like a release timeline.

Since my new project's tentative launch date falls between expected airdates for the new Macross show's promos and the start of actual broadcast, what I'm wondering is if people prefer the typically light coverage a new series gets right when it first airs to take priority over older shows, or if I should hold off until the new series produces some publications with real meat on their bones.

How important would you say it is to have trivia for a new show right away is what I'm asking, I guess.

[Mommar]

Light coverage seems like a good idea to me.