New Macross TV Series in 20xx (sometime this decade)

[Seto Kaiba]

21 hours ago, seti88 said:

[...] the hope of kawamori-san in his studio designing and crafting the next generation of valks, like a master craftsman. 

Now THAT would be interesting, if literal.

Up until Macross Frontier we weren't sure he was doing it intentionally, but the generations of VF in the Macross universe roughly parallels the traits of the most commonly-accepted definitions for real world jet fighter generations.  I suspect, now that we've finally caught up to the real world with 5th generation fighter designs (touted, as in the real world, as the "Last Manned Fighter" generation) it might mean fewer new VFs for a while.  There isn't an accepted real-world 6th Generation yet, so I would expect we'll probably see the 4th Gen VF-171-II and VF-171-III hang around for a while as a 5th Gen replacement is selected and adopted by all the various regions of the galaxy.

It'd certainly be interesting to see what Kawamori would do for a 6th Generation, since his 5th has doubled engine power, added inertial damping, dimensional beam weapons, and other advanced tech.

 

21 hours ago, seti88 said:

Please kawamori-San, don't ever get bored of designing new valks! Hontoni Arigato Gozaimasu!

If he ever does, he's got a heir-apparent ready to take over in Tenjin Hidetaka.  They've already collaborated on designs for at least one Macross project already (Macross the Ride).

[no3Ljm]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If he ever does, he's got a heir-apparent ready to take over in Tenjin Hidetaka.  They've already collaborated on designs for at least one Macross project already (Macross the Ride).

So it's safe to assume that the Anniversary schemes are all Tenjin and not a collaborated work with Kawamori?

 

[seti88]

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Now THAT would be interesting, if literal.

Up until Macross Frontier we weren't sure he was doing it intentionally, but the generations of VF in the Macross universe roughly parallels the traits of the most commonly-accepted definitions for real world jet fighter generations.  I suspect, now that we've finally caught up to the real world with 5th generation fighter designs (touted, as in the real world, as the "Last Manned Fighter" generation) it might mean fewer new VFs for a while.  There isn't an accepted real-world 6th Generation yet, so I would expect we'll probably see the 4th Gen VF-171-II and VF-171-III hang around for a while as a 5th Gen replacement is selected and adopted by all the various regions of the galaxy.

It'd certainly be interesting to see what Kawamori would do for a 6th Generation, since his 5th has doubled engine power, added inertial damping, dimensional beam weapons, and other advanced tech.

I do hope that kawamori-san would have tot abt it at the very least. I don't envy his position, its not easy coming up with valk designs that keep improving on familar valk configurations (ie twin tailrudders/thrusters/legs, battroid head in the middle of fighter fuselage)  In this sense i felt he was looking to branch out with the 262, trying to incorporate older aircraft configurations and perhaps develop on that aircraft design as well.

I wouldn't mind him revisitng and developing valks based on older aircraft generations, if the 6th generation doesn't quite give him the design room to improve. Am not an avid aircraft reader, but from what i see 6th gen aircraft are really flat, with stealthy tech and for some reason like to omit tail rudders.

But kawamori is in that position in the macross universe to plan this, and am sure bandai wouldn't mind to have him keep developing valks to sustain the in demand valk merchandising line.

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If he ever does, he's got a heir-apparent ready to take over in Tenjin Hidetaka.  They've already collaborated on designs for at least one Macross project already (Macross the Ride).

Yeah am waiting for him to reach a level where he can drive valk design and create his own valk. Am not sure if he has though, as i normally see him as illustrator and customiser of existing valk models. 

[snakerbot]

7 hours ago, seti88 said:

Am not an avid aircraft reader, but from what i see 6th gen aircraft are really flat, with stealthy tech and for some reason like to omit tail rudders.

They omit the rudders because it makes them stealthier.

7 hours ago, seti88 said:

But kawamori is in that position in the macross universe to plan this, and am sure bandai wouldn't mind to have him keep developing valks to sustain the in demand valk merchandising line.

If 6th generation VFs parallel what we think 6th generation fighters will be like in real life, then we're going to be in for some boring fight choreography. 6th generation looks like it's going to be all about stealth, long range, and electronic warfare. There's a bunch of stuff going on under the skin that will be interesting, like new, more efficient engines and sensor fusion tech.

I'd be interested in seeing VFs based on the 6th generation concepts because I think they'd look interesting, but with active stealth in Macross, there isn't really an in-universe reason to make them that shape.

[kajnrig]

Macross already did mimic modern stealth "shapes" in Plus and Seven. Considering that 6th-gen fighters just look like takes on the contours originally sported on the F-22 and YF-23 three decades ago, I don't know how much inspiration there is to draw from them, and moreover I don't think Kawamori would find it very stimulating to revisit those design trends. He would more likely dig into aviation history again like he did for the SV-262, like he's done since the beginning of the franchise. Or draw from outside fighter jets: helicopters and tilt-rotors, space vehicles, the natural world...

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Macross already did mimic modern stealth "shapes" in Plus and Seven. Considering that 6th-gen fighters just look like takes on the contours originally sported on the F-22 and YF-23 three decades ago, I don't know how much inspiration there is to draw from them, and moreover I don't think Kawamori would find it very stimulating to revisit those design trends. He would more likely dig into aviation history again like he did for the SV-262, like he's done since the beginning of the franchise. Or draw from outside fighter jets: helicopters and tilt-rotors, space vehicles, the natural world...

Personally, I think the reason why he created Active Stealth was a way to get around the bland shapes that stealthiness entails, and create dynamic looking fighters/Battroids.

As someone who designs his own transforming fighter jets, I can personally attest to the difficulty of trying to create a flat underside of an aircraft, but also having ankle and knee guards in Battroid - you know, the stuff that makes them look dynamic.

Let's also be thankful that Kawamori-san never went down the road of shardism (like the live action Transformer movies).

 

Here's a batch of them (and I'm only posting this to give you an idea of what a tilt-rotor/helicopter might look like): https://studiootaking.deviantart.com/art/CFs-Generation-2B-Master-File-Chronicle-708803627

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by sketchley

[Vifam7]

On 3/10/2018 at 12:06 PM, kajnrig said:

Macross already did mimic modern stealth "shapes" in Plus and Seven. Considering that 6th-gen fighters just look like takes on the contours originally sported on the F-22 and YF-23 three decades ago, I don't know how much inspiration there is to draw from them, and moreover I don't think Kawamori would find it very stimulating to revisit those design trends. He would more likely dig into aviation history again like he did for the SV-262, like he's done since the beginning of the franchise. Or draw from outside fighter jets: helicopters and tilt-rotors, space vehicles, the natural world...

 

How about going retro and introducing propeller driven VFs? I don't know, make up some kind of cockamamie technoexcuse to require them in outer space.

 

[kajnrig]

15 minutes ago, Vifam7 said:

How about going retro and introducing propeller driven VFs? I don't know, make up some kind of cockamamie technoexcuse to require them in outer space.

You joke, but a peace-time Macross where the conflict is more personal or smaller scale, and we get to see a different, civilian side to VF tech would be awesome. Establish a star system of sea worlds (like Ragna). The locals have developed enthusiast VFs designed to land on and take off from water, some designed after helicopters, others after seaplanes.

Or the competing airshows idea, again like what Kawamori originally envisioned Delta to be. VFs based on old airshow biplanes, triplanes, quadruplanes... It's a match made in heaven.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Vifam7 said:

How about going retro and introducing propeller driven VFs? I don't know, make up some kind of cockamamie technoexcuse to require them in outer space.

... that's actually been done once already.

No, really.  I'm not kidding.  It was done for Macross Ace magazine.  It was a biplane conversion of the VF-25 called the Wyvern, and Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah has a refined version called the Wyvern II.

[Vifam7]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... that's actually been done once already.

No, really.  I'm not kidding.  It was done for Macross Ace magazine.  It was a biplane conversion of the VF-25 called the Wyvern, and Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah has a refined version called the Wyvern II.

 

Pics would be greatly appreciated!

[Sildani]

For once, I can do something helpful before Seto! Here:

[SMS007]

Holy smokes the NUNS sponsored the development of a biplane?

[sketchley]

3 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Holy smokes the NUNS sponsored the development of a biplane?

It's not part of the official setting, but if memory serves on my scanlation, it was created for recon purposes on planets with Vajra, because the Vajra detect the thermonuclear reaction engines, but not whatever is powering the propellers.  When push comes to shove, those extra "Super" parts can be purged, and the VF-25 performs as normal.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Sildani said:

For once, I can do something helpful before Seto! Here:

Yup, that's one of the two... the more polished version of the design done for Variable Fighter Master File VF-25 Messiah, called the VF-25WR Wyvern-2.  The one in Macross Ace was more retro-looking, with the propellers up front over the top of the wing and the nose done with a bolt-on cover that made it look like a single-engine Cessna without the propeller.

An upvote for you, good sir!  Smashing job finding that custom model.  Any idea who made it, so that we might give props where props are due for this model's excellent props?

 

56 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Holy smokes the NUNS sponsored the development of a biplane?

Non-canonically, but yeah... twice.  Both based on the VF-25.

 

52 minutes ago, sketchley said:

It's not part of the official setting, but if memory serves on my scanlation, it was created for recon purposes on planets with Vajra, because the Vajra detect the thermonuclear reaction engines, but not whatever is powering the propellers.  When push comes to shove, those extra "Super" parts can be purged, and the VF-25 performs as normal.

Your memory serves you well.  The Wyvern and Wyvern-2 conversions were (non-canonically) developed to permit exploration of regions around Vajra hives on the recently-colonized Vajra homeworld.  By using conventional propeller engines and keeping the FF-3001A engines off, the GIC systems at the heart of the reactors wouldn't be producing any fold waves that might prompt the Vajra to investigate the fighter or see it as a threat.  Per Master File, neither seems to have made it past the design proposal phase.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[spacemanoeuvres]

Looks neat; like the aircraft from Wings of Honneamise. 

[seti88]

Has there been any valk concepts showing more than 2 thrusters? Am thinking for a next gen valk, is there any limitation on what defines a battroid? Can't it have 4 legs or 3 arms for that matter ala the Asian jaeger in Pacific rim.....

hmmmmm...not sure what the feedback from the fan base that would be...

[TrickyCustomer]

18 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Has there been any valk concepts showing more than 2 thrusters? Am thinking for a next gen valk, is there any limitation on what defines a battroid? Can't it have 4 legs or 3 arms for that matter ala the Asian jaeger in Pacific rim.....

hmmmmm...not sure what the feedback from the fan base that would be...

Please no. A valkyrie is unique enough it doesn't need 4 legs. As far as more thrusters is concerned I would point you towards the Vf-27, yf-29 as a few examples of 4 thruster types. Even the vf-1s with strike parts has technically 4 thrusters. So they are out there. The only thing I like with 4 legs in the macross series is the anti-an amphibious destroids in macross zero. They look cool as hell. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by TrickyCustomer

[ivorysniper]

On 3/9/2018 at 9:37 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Now THAT would be interesting, if literal.

Up until Macross Frontier we weren't sure he was doing it intentionally, but the generations of VF in the Macross universe roughly parallels the traits of the most commonly-accepted definitions for real world jet fighter generations.  I suspect, now that we've finally caught up to the real world with 5th generation fighter designs (touted, as in the real world, as the "Last Manned Fighter" generation) it might mean fewer new VFs for a while.  There isn't an accepted real-world 6th Generation yet, so I would expect we'll probably see the 4th Gen VF-171-II and VF-171-III hang around for a while as a 5th Gen replacement is selected and adopted by all the various regions of the galaxy.

It'd certainly be interesting to see what Kawamori would do for a 6th Generation, since his 5th has doubled engine power, added inertial damping, dimensional beam weapons, and other advanced tech.

 

If he ever does, he's got a heir-apparent ready to take over in Tenjin Hidetaka.  They've already collaborated on designs for at least one Macross project already (Macross the Ride).

Do these classify as a contingency stash ?. Some of them already evolved into Macross VFs but there are still interesting unused concepts in his work.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by ivorysniper

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, seti88 said:

Has there been any valk concepts showing more than 2 thrusters?

Plenty.  Assuming we're talking strictly about built-in engine systems rather than detachable ones like the VF-0's Ghost Booster or a Super Pack:

• The VF-4 Lightning III was the first to have multiple main engine systems.  It had six engines in total: 2 thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, 2 hybrid rocket motors inside the nacelles (shoulders), and 2 thermonuclear ramjet/scramjet systems built into the wing itself.
• The VF-2SS Valkyrie II was the first to have more than two thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.  It had four: two main thermonuclear reaction turbine engines in the legs and two smaller sub-engines at the base of the stabilizers.  It's not explicitly stated, but the VA-1SS Metal Siren appears to have an almost identical engine configuration.
• The VAB-2/FBz-99 has four thermonuclear reaction turbine engines mounted in pairs on its shoulders and two thermonuclear rocket motors in its legs.
• The VB-6 Konig Monster has four thermonuclear reaction turbine engines and four plasma rocket engines.
• The YF-29 Durandal has four Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.
• The production model VF-27 Lucifer, which was completed based on stolen YF-29 data, has four Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, albeit not as powerful.

If we throw the floor open to bolt-ons and Super Packs, that's basically any VF with a Super Pack, the VF-0 with its Ghost Booster, the VF-27 Super Lucifer with its Goblin Booster, the Sv-262 Draken III with its Lilldrakens, etc.

 

2 hours ago, seti88 said:

Am thinking for a next gen valk, is there any limitation on what defines a battroid? Can't it have 4 legs or 3 arms for that matter ala the Asian jaeger in Pacific rim.....

hmmmmm...not sure what the feedback from the fan base that would be...

... well, I don't suppose there's anything stopping them from having wing binders and so on like in the Gundam franchise, or an extra arm kicking around like Scirocco's The O.  The most Gundam-y of Macross's offerings did have at least one mecha that used its wings as an extra set of limbs and had a fourth mode that was more like a reverse-GERWALK (battroid with a jet bottom half) called Gundroid (the Metal Siren).

There is that one weird proposed Super Pack in Macross the First (1st Ed.) that had a Tomahawk destroid arm sticking off one side.

 

 

2 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

The only thing I like with 4 legs in the macross series is the anti-an amphibious destroids in macross zero. They look cool as hell. 

Whether those are "legs" is debatable... the Octos is, according to Junya Ishigaki's line art for it in his artbook Robo no Ishi, a mecha modeled on a gorilla.  We've never seen it use those as arms, but it's not out of the question.

 

 

40 minutes ago, ivorysniper said:

Do these classify as a contingency stash ?. Some of them already evolved into Macross VFs but there are still interesting unused concepts in his work.

A fair number of them have already been adopted into Macross in one form or another.

The AF-49's older version, VA-X-3, was adopted into the technical continuity in Macross Chronicle.

The Advanced Valkyrie Alpha and Beta's combined form is the VF-11 Thunderbolt.

The Sturmsoln and Messergern were incorporated into the Varuata Forces as partial inspiration for the Fz-109 and Az-109.

The top one in your last picture is the VAB-2, which was the New UN Forces bomber basis for the Varauta FBz-99.

There are a number of others that were adopted too, like the V-BR-2, VF-T-11, etc.

 

[TrickyCustomer]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Whether those are "legs" is debatable... the Octos is, according to Junya Ishigaki's line art for it in his artbook Robo no Ishi, a mecha modeled on a gorilla.  We've never seen it use those as arms, but it's not out of the question.

 

They certainly look like legs, even has toes that are retracted. I would be interested to know what the write up says in the image. The stance does give it a gorilla looking pose. The beach assault i think is the most you see of them.

[seti88]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer to mean a primary thrust system of fighters, which in macross verse logically forms the feet.

All design discussions so far have, and still revolve around, the standard twin pulposion system, in a purely naked fighter. The 262of course kinda bucks that configuration in its consolidated thrust output, even if it is twin intakes out front.

Would a less humanoid, ...battroid be something to be attempted? And should gerwalk mode evolve too?

The caveat that fighter mode should still b sleek. And that's just to not alienate the fan base too much by having a familiar fighter mode which lets face it, most fans love and mirrors a real life artefact.

Things I think abt if I can't sleep....or rather that's why I can't sleep?! Lol....

Edited March 14, 2018 by seti88

[Seto Kaiba]

21 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Sorry, I should have made it clearer to mean a primary thrust system of fighters, which in macross verse logically forms the feet.

*cough* There are a couple VFs that don't have their main engine system in the legs/feet... the VF-22, VA-3, VAB-2, FBz-99, and Feios Valkyrie for instance.  The VAB-2/FBz-99 is on the list of ones having four main engines too.  It has large B-2 style intakes with two engines in each, which are built into its shoulders.

The VB-6 has its main engines in the feet, but it has two thermonuclear reaction turbines in each foot.

Arguably at least four of the six engines the VF-4 has constitute main engines too, and only two of those are in the legs.  The other two are in the structural wing body between the shoulder and the neck.

 

21 minutes ago, seti88 said:

All design discussions so far have, and still revolve around, the standard twin pulposion system, in a purely naked fighter. The 262of course kinda bucks that configuration in its consolidated thrust output, even if it is twin intakes out front.

The Sv-262 is still a twin-engine VF.  The two engines just happen to share one thrust-vectoring nozzle, same as on the VAB-2/FBz-99 with their 2x2 four-engine configuration.

 

21 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Would a less humanoid, ...battroid be something to be attempted? And should gerwalk mode evolve too?

I'd imagine that, if it were built for space, it'd probably do away with GERWALK... several sources have indicated that GERWALK mode is largely useless in space.

 

 

[seti88]

15 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

*cough* There are a couple VFs that don't have their main engine system in the legs/feet... the VF-22, VA-3, VAB-2, FBz-99, and Feios Valkyrie for instance.  The VAB-2/FBz-99 is on the list of ones having four main engines too.  It has large B-2 style intakes with two engines in each, which are built into its shoulders.

The VB-6 has its main engines in the feet, but it has two thermonuclear reaction turbines in each foot.

Hmm for the 22, i had always tot that the main thrust still came from the feet, based on positions of the intakes feeding into the legs? The vector control nozzles in the top fuselage were then linked to the feet in fighter mode.

But i digress, thanks for pointing out the valks without engines in the legs. Tho to my original question, those seem still to be primarily twin thruster output configurations (noted that it doesnt necessary exit via feet), with the one perhaps exception of the VF-22's backpack (which i had tot to be just vectoring nozzles linked to the feet)

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Sv-262 is still a twin-engine VF.  The two engines just happen to share one thrust-vectoring nozzle, same as on the VAB-2/FBz-99 with their 2x2 four-engine configuration.

I thk the 262 is the only one in the macross verse coming close enough to change the intake to output thruster configuration. I.e. to have a twin side intake but single point output configuration (technically just 2 feet together). Even with the VAB-2/Fbz-99 from the lineart it seems the output was a one on each side(ie twin), thrust configuration. 

 

[Chronocidal]

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:16 AM, seti88 said:

Hmm for the 22, i had always tot that the main thrust still came from the feet, based on positions of the intakes feeding into the legs? The vector control nozzles in the top fuselage were then linked to the feet in fighter mode.

But i digress, thanks for pointing out the valks without engines in the legs. Tho to my original question, those seem still to be primarily twin thruster output configurations (noted that it doesnt necessary exit via feet), with the one perhaps exception of the VF-22's backpack (which i had tot to be just vectoring nozzles linked to the feet)

I thk the 262 is the only one in the macross verse coming close enough to change the intake to output thruster configuration. I.e. to have a twin side intake but single point output configuration (technically just 2 feet together). Even with the VAB-2/Fbz-99 from the lineart it seems the output was a one on each side(ie twin), thrust configuration. 

 

If we ever see the SV-154 in action, that might be even a further variation, since it's based on the F-104.  It might very well split just like the 262 though.

Even in real world aircraft though, you generally get either equal or greater intakes to the number of exhausts.  The only couple I can think of off the top of my head are the English Electric Lightning, and the XB-70 Valkyrie.  Also the Harrier, but that's a bit of a special case.  I'm certain there are others, but those are the most clear cases.  All the others that come to mind tend to be pods containing multiple engines like the B-1 or B-2.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 3/15/2018 at 7:16 AM, seti88 said:

Hmm for the 22, i had always tot that the main thrust still came from the feet, based on positions of the intakes feeding into the legs? The vector control nozzles in the top fuselage were then linked to the feet in fighter mode.

Nah, the VF-22's legs are totally disposable sub-nozzles for the main engines.  Thrust for flight or hovering in battroid mode is from the main nozzles on the back, and GERWALK mode takes some very unique levels in weird by having main engine thrust diverted into the sub-nozzles in the feet and bypass air from the outside of the turbine vented through a series of shutters in the bay that holds the limbs (and bombs) in fighter mode.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

If we ever see the SV-154 in action, that might be even a further variation, since it's based on the F-104.  It might very well split just like the 262 though.

For all practical intents and purposes the Sv-154 is a reuse of the LV-7 Valorous Rapier from Shoji Kawamori's Air Cavalry Chronicles concept... the engines were in the legs there too.  The tail's set up a bit like the F-4 Phantom, with two nozzles side by side separated only by some structural elements from the tail.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Even in real world aircraft though, you generally get either equal or greater intakes to the number of exhausts.  The only couple I can think of off the top of my head are the English Electric Lightning, and the XB-70 Valkyrie.  Also the Harrier, but that's a bit of a special case.  I'm certain there are others, but those are the most clear cases.  All the others that come to mind tend to be pods containing multiple engines like the B-1 or B-2.

Thus far, all 5th Generation VFs save possibly one (the Sv-262) are derived from a common source: the specs for the "monkey model" version of the YF-24 Evolution that the New UN Government had circulated to its member nations in 2057.  It's reasonably likely the Sv-262 is also derived from the YF-24 Evolution spec, but strictly in terms of new technologies.

YF-24 Evolution → VF-24 Evolution (Earth/Full Spec)
YF-24 Evolution → VF-24 Evolution (Monkey Model)
YF-24 Evolution → YF-25 Prophecy → VF-25 Messiah
YF-24 Evolution → YF-26 → Canceled
YF-24 Evolution → YF-27 Shahar + Stolen YF-29 data → VF-27 Lucifer
YF-24 Evolution → YF-28 (Rumored rival program to YF-29)
YF-24 Evolution → YF-29 Durandal → YF-29B Percival
YF-24 Evolution + YF-29 Durandal → YF-30 Chronos → YF-30B Chronos → VF-30 Chronos
YF-24 Evolution + YF-29 Durandal → YF-30 Chronos → YF-31 Kairos → VF-31 Kairos

(Units colored Orange are, at present, exclusive to Variable Fighter Master File.)

When there's a common ancestor to pretty much every current-gen VF, it does seem a bit unlikely we'll see any really radical designs cropping up... unless Fasces or one of Latence's other surviving splinter groups from the Second Unification War manage to develop something new based on the Queadluun-Alma or the Elgersoln, Panzersoln, and Zaubergern units that Fasces went to so much trouble to recreate in Macross the Ride.

[Valkyrie1981]

Nothing can ever save us from the utter stupidity of Delta.  There is nothing to redeem buy mecha design...  However it is so tainted by the Walkure the entire thing should be burned to the ground, never to be seen again.  Maybe used to torture terrorists or something, because I would rather be waterboarded then watch that crap again.  

[TrickyCustomer]

Bogue = Dilandau from Escaflowne.

Aerial Knights = The Dragon Slayers

Keith = Alan Schezar

Hayate  = Vaan

No one else see the resemblances?

[Podtastic]

20 hours ago, Valkyrie1981 said:

Nothing can ever save us from the utter stupidity of Delta.  There is nothing to redeem buy mecha design...  However it is so tainted by the Walkure the entire thing should be burned to the ground, never to be seen again.  Maybe used to torture terrorists or something, because I would rather be waterboarded then watch that crap again.  

Well said, sir.

[seti88]

On 3/17/2018 at 7:54 PM, Valkyrie1981 said:

Nothing can ever save us from the utter stupidity of Delta.  There is nothing to redeem buy mecha design...  However it is so tainted by the Walkure the entire thing should be burned to the ground, never to be seen again.  Maybe used to torture terrorists or something, because I would rather be waterboarded then watch that crap again.  

I think if its used to torture terrorists, they would probably scream ...no more makina boob shots!!! Nooo......

*while secretly saying...oh yeaaaaaaaaa....*

[kajnrig]

On 3/17/2018 at 6:54 AM, Valkyrie1981 said:

Nothing can ever save us from the utter stupidity of Delta.  There is nothing to redeem buy mecha design...  However it is so tainted by the Walkure the entire thing should be burned to the ground, never to be seen again.  Maybe used to torture terrorists or something, because I would rather be waterboarded then watch that crap again.  

pfahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

15 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

Bogue = Dilandau from Escaflowne.

Aerial Knights = The Dragon Slayers

Keith = Alan Schezar

Hayate  = Vaan

No one else see the resemblances?

If anything else about the characters were also similar, I'd say you're onto something there, but no one will remember Bogue ten years from now whereas Dilandau's "Moeru moeru!" is eternal. Also the music isn't as good.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 3/17/2018 at 7:54 AM, Valkyrie1981 said:

Nothing can ever save us from the utter stupidity of Delta.  There is nothing to redeem buy mecha design...  However it is so tainted by the Walkure the entire thing should be burned to the ground, never to be seen again.  [...]

There's some quality irony to be had there... given Walkure's evident popularity in Japan and abroad, it's highly probable that they'll be the only part of Macross Delta anyone remembers (in-universe or out) in the future.  Kind of like how Isamu and Guld get swept under the rug and the only part of Macross Plus that usually gets referenced is Sharon Apple.

 

19 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

Bogue = Dilandau from Escaflowne.

Aerial Knights = The Dragon Slayers

Keith = Alan Schezar

Hayate  = Vaan

No one else see the resemblances?

Honestly, no... there are some superficial similarities there, I guess, but probably purely coincidental.

Hayate's nothing like Van Fanel, that's for sure.  Van did his level best to convince the audience that he'd had his sense of humor amputated at the neck, breakfasted on iron filings, and sat down abruptly on a broom handle.

Keith and Alan are arguably only alike in that they're both blonde-haired prettyboys.  Alan had an illegitimate child, Keith was the illegitimate child.  Never mind that Alan was into girls and both of Keith's implied love interests are men.  Alan also had a sense of humor, where Keith smoulders with generic rage 24/7.

Bogue and Dilandau were both hotheads, for sure... but Dilandau was in charge and a badass, while Bogue is the youngest Aerial Knight and treated like a junior even by people who joined the Knights after he did (Qasim and the twins).  There isn't a sniff of a distressed damsel in Bogue's backstory either, where Dilandau WAS the distressed damsel.

The Aerial Knights also don't really cut it as elite mooks either.  They're a prettyboy platoon like Dilandau's Dragon Slayers, but the similarity pretty much ends there since they're not sneaky or genre savvy.  Most of them are honor-before-reason idiots who were entirely dependent on the edge given to them by the Song of the Wind and their more advanced fighter, and couldn't hold their own against skilled troops on a level footing.  One thing you can say for Dilandau's troops... it took someone with plot armor to actually start killing them, and even then it took a lot of work, justifying their role as The Dreaded.

Everyone was kind of betting, going into Delta, that we'd be getting Der Ring des Nibelung in space... boy were WE wrong.  Which is kind of a shame, since Macross Delta only superficially built on the Protoculture-Norse theme that was going on in Macross 30.

 

5 hours ago, seti88 said:

I think if its used to torture terrorists, they would probably scream ...no more makina boob shots!!! Nooo......

*while secretly saying...oh yeaaaaaaaaa....*

All things considered, I suspect they'd wonder why the show has a character whose only role is to show enough cleavage to hide a small armored cavalry squadron in.

(Theres nothing wrong with a bit of fanservice, but it does get a bit jarring when a character exists for that reason only... Klan Klan was arguably Frontier's Ms. Fanservice, and she managed to have an interesting character arc and a lot of development.  In such a character-driven series as Macross, there really is no excuse for a flat character.)

[TrickyCustomer]

@Seto Kaiba  The resemblances are vague that's for sure. Maybe the style, attitude and squadron/team just remind me of Escaflowne. Probably most with the Bogue/Dilandau comparison. Ironically, Kawamori was the original creator for Escaflowne too.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

@Seto Kaiba  The resemblances are vague that's for sure. Maybe the style, attitude and squadron/team just remind me of Escaflowne. Probably most with the Bogue/Dilandau comparison. Ironically, Kawamori was the original creator for Escaflowne too.

Well, we know the progenitor of The Vision of Escaflowne did end up rolled into Macross and at least one of its designs did become a Windermerean fighter: Fanelia's LV-7 Valorous Rapier "Excalibur" became the Sv-154 Svard.

Kawamori's never been one to let an old idea or design go.  

Still, I'm left to wonder if we're going to see some of the Macross franchise's trademark reinvention of itself with each new installment is going to be de-emphasized in favor of more frequent new releases ala Gundam.  This new series supposedly debuting later this year is coming a lot sooner than usual.  As noted earlier, I definitely suspect that we'll see less in terms of new mechanical designs.

[TrickyCustomer]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, we know the progenitor of The Vision of Escaflowne did end up rolled into Macross and at least one of its designs did become a Windermerean fighter: Fanelia's LV-7 Valorous Rapier "Excalibur" became the Sv-154 Svard.

Kawamori's never been one to let an old idea or design go.  

I remember hearing something similar  about that on the speakerpodcast. I really loved Dilandau's red alseides guymelef. I would love to see that head design transfered over to macross in some form of valkyrie design... Or enemy mecha. 

[seti88]

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

All things considered, I suspect they'd wonder why the show has a character whose only role is to show enough cleavage to hide a small armored cavalry squadron in.

(Theres nothing wrong with a bit of fanservice, but it does get a bit jarring when a character exists for that reason only... Klan Klan was arguably Frontier's Ms. Fanservice, and she managed to have an interesting character arc and a lot of development.  In such a character-driven series as Macross, there really is no excuse for a flat character.)

I suppose having a range of female forms would help female audiences identify with themselves or friends in a group setting. 

Your flat character comment in the end made me chuckle a bit tho, since we were discussing makina...