New Macross TV Series in 20xx (sometime this decade)

[Devil 505]

4 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Reposted from my post in the SCOOPUDA thread, tis relevant here too:

 

As someone who migrated from The-Show-That-Must-Not-Be-Named to Macross, I've definitely enjoyed what Macross has to offer in comparison to those other guys.  The fact that I have a "ponified" Basara as my avatar should say enough.  I'm always looking forward to what comes next for Macross, for better or worse.

[Master Dex]

8 minutes ago, Cowboy17 said:

 

Well, the thing is that for some of us (i know i'm not alone), Macross has been taking a dive ever since Zero. MacF was bad, and Delta was horrid. I know not everyone shares that opinion obviously, but there's some of us that feel that way.  

 

Personally, I don't really look forward to more Macross honestly.  I don't think Kawamori is all that competent at anything other than designing mecha.  More mecha and sometimes the music is good, but everything else lately I can do without.  

That may be true, and I respect your opinions, you are allowed that for things that exist already (Though I see an overwhelming majority of fans saying they love Frontier, including me, so your comment there is a bit surprising). I'm just saying we don't need to bash something new before even knowing what it is. Also.. if you really are honestly dreading it, and not at all convinced it will be worth your time... then just ignore it, no harm done, but if we're lucky then both of us can be happy. We'll always have the good stuff.

 

10 minutes ago, Devil 505 said:

As someone who migrated from The-Show-That-Must-Not-Be-Named to Macross, I've definitely enjoyed what Macross has to offer in comparison to those other guys.  The fact that I have a "ponified" Basara as my avatar should say enough.  I'm always looking forward to what comes next for Macross, for better or worse.

BOMBAA!!

[Cowboy17]

Yeah. I gave Delta a bit of a chance but dropped it like a rock.  I'll buy the toys and kits, though. That's about it. 

 

I imagine this new thing will be much the same.  I know it will probably be bad, but I'll at least give it a watch or two just to make sure. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Cowboy17

[jenius]

Frontier wasn't perfect but overall I thought it was very good. I felt like Delta was a 'careful what you wish for' moment for me. During Frontier I wished we got more on Galaxy... then Delta was like 'you want to peek being the curtain? Here spend several episodes there.' I still think the Frontier movies were dreadful so I hope this new movie steps it up. 

[Cowboy17]

At the very least I wish they could get away from Satelight, but since Kawamori is their managing director, that'll never happen.  Satelight really is garbage. 

[Mazinger]

Maybe I'll stay off the forums when the new show hits.  The waves of complaints and general backlash against Delta didn't make it easier to enjoy the show, which I generally did after all.

[azrael]

I shall expand on my earlier comment.
New director.
New writers.
If they decide to do 13 episodes or 25 episodes, stick with it. Don't change the order.  

[Seto Kaiba]

Eh... for my money, Macross Delta was a mediocre mess that did a lot to undermine the confidence I had in Macross's creators after the huge success of Macross Frontier.

No exaggeration, I loved Macross Frontier.  It was, for me, the closest a Macross television series has come to perfection... with everything that makes Macross what it is, and almost all of it perfectly balanced.  Its only noteworthy issues were that the pacing was rushed near the end and Ranka's participation in the love triangle was less than it should have been in the second half.  She never made that same romantic comeback that Minmay achieved in the post-timeskip arc of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, and that left the outcome of the love triangle feeling a bit like a foregone conclusion.

All the same pieces were there in Macross Delta, but the writers did a lousy job putting them together.  The music was fantastic, the main trio were some of the most likeable characters Macross has ever had, the mechanical designs were gorgeous, the character designs were mostly excellent, but the writing was a bloody trainwreck that failed miserably to seal the deal and tie it all together.  That the potential was obvious, and obviously being wasted, made the show incredibly frustrating to watch.  It could've been better than Frontier.  It could've handily been my new favorite Macross series... but the writer tripped his team up at the starting line.

Based on the last two shows, I have every reason to expect that the new Macross project will be visually stunning and musically exceptional.  It'll take the Macross universe to somewhere new and different and add a few new wrinkles to the setting.  What I have less confidence in is their writer's ability to tie it all together into a seamless package the way the writers of DYRL?, Plus, 7, and Frontier did.  That's a tall order, and we're spoiled in that what's workmanlike for Macross is exceptional by the standards of many other franchises, but I'd love an excuse to keep my standards high.

[Master Dex]

40 minutes ago, jenius said:

Frontier wasn't perfect but overall I thought it was very good. I felt like Delta was a 'careful what you wish for' moment for me. During Frontier I wished we got more on Galaxy... then Delta was like 'you want to peek being the curtain? Here spend several episodes there.' I still think the Frontier movies were dreadful so I hope this new movie steps it up. 

*thinks the Frontier movies are a way better overall telling of the story than the show... slinks back into his hiding spot to listen to Fire Bomber*

 

16 minutes ago, Mazinger said:

Maybe I'll stay off the forums when the new show hits.  The waves of complaints and general backlash against Delta didn't make it easier to enjoy the show, which I generally did after all.

There are times, but I can shrug off negativity luckily. Don't be afraid to say you like something even if others hate it. Delta did have a lot of issues, mostly in the back half, but I didn't hate it. I like it for what it was.

 

3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... for my money, Macross Delta was a mediocre mess that did a lot to undermine the confidence I had in Macross's creators after the huge success of Macross Frontier.

No exaggeration, I loved Macross Frontier.  It was, for me, the closest a Macross television series has come to perfection... with everything that makes Macross what it is, and almost all of it perfectly balanced.  Its only noteworthy issues were that the pacing was rushed near the end and Ranka's participation in the love triangle was less than it should have been in the second half.  She never made that same romantic comeback that Minmay achieved in the post-timeskip arc of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, and that left the outcome of the love triangle feeling a bit like a foregone conclusion.

All the same pieces were there in Macross Delta, but the writers did a lousy job putting them together.  The music was fantastic, the main trio were some of the most likeable characters Macross has ever had, the mechanical designs were gorgeous, the character designs were mostly excellent, but the writing was a bloody trainwreck that failed miserably to seal the deal and tie it all together.  That the potential was obvious, and obviously being wasted, made the show incredibly frustrating to watch.  It could've been better than Frontier.  It could've handily been my new favorite Macross series... but the writer tripped his team up at the starting line.

Based on the last two shows, I have every reason to expect that the new Macross project will be visually stunning and musically exceptional.  It'll take the Macross universe to somewhere new and different and add a few new wrinkles to the setting.  What I have less confidence in is their writer's ability to tie it all together into a seamless package the way the writers of DYRL?, Plus, 7, and Frontier did.  That's a tall order, and we're spoiled in that what's workmanlike for Macross is exceptional by the standards of many other franchises, but I'd love an excuse to keep my standards high.

A fair and cogent analysis. I'm gonna sum it up as.. cautiously optimistic? Probably the best view to take now. As you imply, they have the capability to do great, we just need to wait and see if they will.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

A fair and cogent analysis. I'm gonna sum it up as.. cautiously optimistic? Probably the best view to take now. As you imply, they have the capability to do great, we just need to wait and see if they will.

Sort of... it's more like I'm establishing the base level of my expectations.

All things considered, we can pretty much take it as read that the new Macross series is going to be visually impressive and have great music behind it.  There's no reason to believe they won't achieve at least that much... and it's a hell of a thing that THAT'S what we can consider their minimum obligation with a new series.  The only thing that's really in question here in production terms is whether the writers are up to the job.  Frontier's were.  Delta's weren't.

There's no doubt in my mind that Macross 2018 will be eminently watchable.  It's just a matter of whether it'll be exceptional, or merely good.

[Nazareno2012]

Great news, just hope this does not end up being as crappy as Delta. As someone who watches Macross for the mecha and ship designs, that means more mecha action and ship battles than Delta had.

[SuperHobo]

I'm up for any new macross show as long as the creators are confident they have a good story to tell from beginning to end. 

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Well more Macross is better than no Macross so, color me optimistic.

[jvmacross]

First spoken dialogue from the next Macross TV series? 

 

 

...But in all seriousness....

 

 

[Keith]

Not gonna read anything, still liking Delta (watching on BD), but I'm really hopinh for Macross The First.

[Raptor One]

People using the music as an example of something Delta did right? The music was mediocre at best so if that was the highlight of the series...

Although I did dig some of the actual BGM, I think the only Walkure song I really liked is that one that sounded like Earth Wind & Fire's September.  

But regardless of the quality of Delta there will never come a day where I'm not excited for a new Macross series. I still would love to see a Macross the Ride adaptation because it would hopefully mean VF-19ACTIVE AND VF-9E DXs, which would legitimately be dreams come true. 

Something different like the airshow based series Kawamori reportedly wanted Delta to be originally would be good too.

Or something from the gap between Flashback 2012 and Plus, maybe M3 era. Would tie in nicely with Jenius Air (and be another chance for a VF-9 DX haha)

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

She never made that same romantic comeback that Minmay achieved in the post-timeskip arc of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, and that left the outcome of the love triangle feeling a bit like a foregone conclusion.

Agree whole-heartedly with the rest of your post (well, minus the praise of Delta's music) and this is probably the least important thing in it, but I have to disagree that the outcome of the triangle in Frontier felt like a foregone conclusion. It definitely feels that way in hindsight but I remember the heated discussions and repeated declarations of victory by supporters of both sides of the triangle all the way up until the end of the series (the movies are a different story), it really did feel like either of the girls could have come out on top. Of course that was partly due to how frustratingly obtuse Alto was (or at least acted, if you take some of his dialogue at the end of the series to heart).

Edited January 30, 2017 by Raptor One

[TehPW]

1 hour ago, azrael said:

I shall expand on my earlier comment.
New director.
New writers.
If they decide to do 13 episodes or 25 episodes, stick with it. Don't change the order.  

and ill ask again: Is the Floating Head gonna be involved in this or his China-Non Macross project?

[Sandman]

I never worried about a new macross series screwing us on the mecha action... then delta happened. Now I'm worried about not getting what should be a given in a macross series. What's worse is that delta somehow became a hit anyway. So it makes me think they'll do more of the same. I don't have much expectations for a new series. My only hope is that macross will get super popular like gundam so that one day they may do side ovas catered to the old school fans.

[kajnrig]

Macross has been going downhill since frickin' Plus, but then again there's only one place TO go once you've reached the mountain top. And it's not like it was a leap off a cliff or anything, more like a slow trek to another cap in the distance. Delta was disappointing, but I'm inclined to agree with this sentiment:

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That the potential was obvious, and obviously being wasted, made the show incredibly frustrating to watch.  It could've been better than Frontier.  It could've handily been my new favorite Macross series... but the writer tripped his team up at the starting line.

I'm still hopeful that a Delta movie will reset the story to its original air show setting. Likable characters in a less high-stakes setting would be a fun Macross watch. Not everything needs to hang the fate of the world in the balance. Plus certainly didn't. It was just three people, a competition to see who could fly the flyest, and a sexy robot.

[HannouHeiki]

To those who are using this news as an opportunity to complain about Delta, yet still purchase Macross merchandise:  Be grateful that they knew how to produce a Macross show that was commercially successful enough to warrant the investment of an entire new series.  I was expecting 1-2 movies.  Instead, we're getting at least another 13 weeks +post show period of marketing and Macross merchandising.  That means more classic Macross goodies sold alongside new designs.  

To those who are using this news as an opportunity to complain about Delta, but do not purchase Macross merchandise for whatever reason:  You're not part of the business and simply not part of the equation.  Catering to you is just not financially viable, and businesses have to cater to those who those who vote with their money.  If producing a show that is to your liking would induce you to buy official Macross releases, I *sincerely* hope that they produce something that'll get you to join in.

To call Delta: stupid, crap, or terrible just denies the reality that Delta was successful enough to bring in 17,000 fans to a Walkure concert.  

Delta was financially successful.  Successful enough for Big West to take their financial winnings and reinvest some of the profit back into Macross.  It's okay to say Delta isn't what you wanted, but to use this news as an opening to "crap" on Delta or Kawamori just flies in the face of reality.

It's like a room full of old guys complaining about young people.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by HannouHeiki

[Sandman]

LOL, Right. Delta was successful, so what, it's irrelevant. It was still a terrible show IMO. Just because Delta was successful, it doesn't make it a good show. The Transformers live action movies are a perfect example of that. I fail to see the point of your post. It reads like you're personally offended by the comments. People can state their opinion weather they like or dislike a show. Fans in both camps have posted in this thread without getting all touchy about it. If it irritates you so much then i suggest you don't read the thread.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Sandman

[505thAirborne]

Just adding my 2 cents. As a whole for Delta, I didn't care for it very much. Had its moments but that was it story wise. Mecha & music on the other was rather enjoyable. So while I didn't like Delta storywise, it doesn't mean that I don't have a Mirage pilot figure & her 1/72 VF-31 kit on the way Via HLJ.... or if I had the chance, I would have been at that concert too. 

As for a new Macross series, for now I am happy about the announcement yet I will wait for more details before I get super excited.  

[Marzan]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

LOL, Right. Delta was successful, so what, it's irrelevant. It was still a terrible show IMO. Just because Delta was successful, it doesn't make it a good show. The Transformers live action movies are a perfect example of that. I fail to see the point of your post. It reads like you're personally offended by the comments. People can state their opinion weather they like or dislike a show. Fans in both camps have posted in this thread without getting all touchy about it. If it irritates you so much then i suggest you don't read the thread.

I agree with this. I don't understand why fans cannot express themselves about their feelings on a Macross series on a Macross forum?

One last point I'd like to make is that one should be careful of conflating Walkure's success with Delta's. They are not one and the same. And while Delta had reasonably ok sales, it paled compared to Frontier's.

I still think that Delta has a lot of potential in the hands of a good writer and director. Give Delta a good script and you have a homerun hit on your hands.

[hachi]

If it's Delta 2 they should get a better writer. But I'm not keeping my hopes up that it'll improve.

[hachi]

On the scoopuda thread I said they should get a better writer if it's Delta 2. As an addendum maybe they should also get a better composer. Of all the Macross series it's only Delta that doesn't have that something that really stands out music wise to me. I know it's kind of vague but I'm not that confident of the story getting better so maybe they should also try improving the music.

[Gordon Freeman]

5 hours ago, HannouHeiki said:

To those who are using this news as an opportunity to complain about Delta, yet still purchase Macross merchandise:  Be grateful that they knew how to produce a Macross show that was commercially successful enough to warrant the investment of an entire new series.  I was expecting 1-2 movies.  Instead, we're getting at least another 13 weeks +post show period of marketing and Macross merchandising.  That means more classic Macross goodies sold alongside new designs.  

To those who are using this news as an opportunity to complain about Delta, but do not purchase Macross merchandise for whatever reason:  You're not part of the business and simply not part of the equation.  Catering to you is just not financially viable, and businesses have to cater to those who those who vote with their money.  If producing a show that is to your liking would induce you to buy official Macross releases, I *sincerely* hope that they produce something that'll get you to join in.

To call Delta: stupid, crap, or terrible just denies the reality that Delta was successful enough to bring in 17,000 fans to a Walkure concert.  

Delta was financially successful.  Successful enough for Big West to take their financial winnings and reinvest some of the profit back into Macross.  It's okay to say Delta isn't what you wanted, but to use this news as an opening to "crap" on Delta or Kawamori just flies in the face of reality.

It's like a room full of old guys complaining about young people.

 

 

Success via the "Japanese Otaku"crowd means nothing. They'll listen or watch anything as long as it has cute girls. See Sword Art Online, Mahōka Kōkō no Rettōsei, Gate, or anything written by that right wing hack Kim Dal Young.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Sandman said:

LOL, Right. Delta was successful, so what, it's irrelevant. It was still a terrible show IMO. Just because Delta was successful, it doesn't make it a good show.

3 hours ago, Marzan said:

I agree with this. I don't understand why fans cannot express themselves about their feelings on a Macross series on a Macross forum?

 

Not to put a razor-fine point on it, but HannouHeiki hit the the mark with laser precision in the last sentence of his last post.

A fair portion of the grumbling about Macross Delta has less to do with the quality of the series itself than it does the fact that the folks doing the grumbling aren't in the franchise's target demographic.  It really does start to sound like old people grumbling about young people after a while, and when you think about it... it kind of is.  Almost stereotypically so when it comes to the music.

Trying to frame "it's not doing as well as Frontier" as a criticism doesn't make a ton of sense either, given that every previous Macross title can be found wanting by that lofty standard.

If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath for this new Macross series to go back to the way things were done in the 80's.  Macross has never been a franchise that cared overmuch for nostalgia, so I'd expect the franchise to continue to move forward... and that means some of the periphery demographic of older fans is going to get left behind.

[Devil 505]

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

Not to put a razor-fine point on it, but HannouHeiki hit the the mark with laser precision in the last sentence of his last post.

A fair portion of the grumbling about Macross Delta has less to do with the quality of the series itself than it does the fact that the folks doing the grumbling aren't in the franchise's target demographic.  It really does start to sound like old people grumbling about young people after a while, and when you think about it... it kind of is.  Almost stereotypically so when it comes to the music.

Trying to frame "it's not doing as well as Frontier" as a criticism doesn't make a ton of sense either, given that every previous Macross title can be found wanting by that lofty standard.

If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath for this new Macross series to go back to the way things were done in the 80's.  Macross has never been a franchise that cared overmuch for nostalgia, so I'd expect the franchise to continue to move forward... and that means some of the periphery demographic of older fans is going to get left behind.

All this complaining is starting to sound like the forums for The-Show-That-Must-Not-Be-Named.  Having lurked there, they've done nothing but complain about Delta, and Macross in general, and they've got nothing but nostalgia to go by.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Devil 505

[Gordon Freeman]

21 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

Macross has never been a franchise that cared overmuch for nostalgia.

That would have been true until the second half of Delta became "Aw boohoo, the American's bombed us. So we are going to to make our Space Nazis the victim and appeal to Japanese nationalists because our sales are slipping." Nor should we forgot the ripoff of Newtype powers in the last episode.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Gordon Freeman

[Seto Kaiba]

56 minutes ago, Devil 505 said:

All this complaining is starting to sound like the forums for The-Show-That-Must-Not-Be-Named.  Having lurked there, they've done nothing but complain about Delta, and Macross in general, and they've got nothing but nostalgia to go by.

Man, I wasn't gonna say it... but I was certainly thinking it loudly.

There certainly is a parallel in that the fans here keep coming back to Macross Plus as if it were the platonic ideal of a Macross show, despite the fact that it didn't do very well in Japan and is almost literally Macross in name only, simply because it's darker and more action-oriented.  Some of it starts to edge into this territory... which is all the more surreal for the fact that Macross is a happy-clappy triumph-by-the-power-of-love-and-understanding romance series set against a space war backdrop.  It's Star Trek by way of Mobile Suit Gundam, not Warhammer 40K.

There's no doubt in my mind the new series will be in a similar vein... all that jazz about peace, love, and understanding triumphing through music in a war brought about by a failure to communicate.

 

53 minutes ago, Gordon Freeman said:

That would have been true until the second half of Delta became "Aw boohoo, the American's bombed us. So we are going to to make our Space Nazis the victim and appeal to Japanese nationalists because our sales are slipping." Nor should we forgot the ripoff of Newtype powers in the last episode.

... no idea how you got that out of it, especially since the bombing was depicted as an attempt to stop the jerkass woobies from deploying a weapon they didn't understand that could cause a galaxy-wide mass extinction event and the whole thing ended with Windermere's Aerial Knights having a heel realization and turning on their boss.  If anything, the anvilicious Aesop this time was "Nationalism as a response to fears about globalism will make you do stupid crap that will only hurt you and everyone else in the long run".

Kawamori never was especially subtle about things like this.

(Also, the riff on Newtype powers isn't exactly new... that was played with in Macross Frontier, but they've been doing affectionate nods to the Mobile Suit Gundam metaseries since the very beginning, when Battle City Megaroad was developed as an affectionate parody of 1979's Mobile Suit Gundam. Gundam has returned the favor many a time with nods to Macross... the iconic Zeta Gundam is explicitly one such homage.)

Edited January 30, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[Gordon Freeman]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

... no idea how you got that out of it, especially since the bombing was depicted as an attempt to stop the jerkass woobies from deploying a weapon they didn't understand that could cause a galaxy-wide mass extinction event and the whole thing ended with Windermere's Aerial Knights having a heel realization and turning on their boss.  If anything, the anvilicious Aesop this time was "Nationalism as a response to fears about globalism will make you do stupid crap that will only hurt you and everyone else in the long run".

Kawamori never was especially subtle about things like this.

 

Nah, it was more like "I need to fleece the Fujoshi watching it for the Wind Stus. So I better only kill two of them off by making them go through a shallow heel face turn." Something that happened at the last moments with no build up. Unlike Ranka and the Vajira which was hinted at from the early episodes of Frontier.  Maybe if they wanted to break tradition, maybe they should just disposed the Face Heel Turn trope. Instead of doing what was done since the 80's. The Wind Stus were characters no one but a counting of fingers on one hand cared about.

 

Kawamori is no Hideo Komjima or Yoshiyuki Tomino . At least they can get their points across to the audience with some subtly. The main reasons Plus and Frontier are looked at fondly for much of the fandom is because the writers of Cowboy Bepop, Noein and Code Geass were doing the heavy lifting when it came to the plot. On his own Kawamori isn't any good as a writer.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Gordon Freeman

[seti88]

19 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

I gotta admit something.  I wasn't impressed by the VF-31 as I was for the -25.  The SV-262 only piqued my interest because of my love for Saab's fighters.

Always enjoyed valks based on their own unique design quirks. For me, they all have their own character! 
I just hope kawamori keeps pushing the envelope of what the variable fighter can look and achieve in transformation..

 

19 hours ago, jenius said:

You can't bank on what Kawamori said about Megaroad 01 at all... he said it a LONG time ago and he has since put allusions to Minmay in Frontier and put even more about it into Delta. I don't think we will see a Megaroad 01 show buttt I definitely wouldn't take it off the table. By bringing it back into Delta he also seemed to impart some serious significance on whatever happened to them as we then allegedly got Mikumo out of it. I'd still rather see Macross the First animated though.... REBOOT!

LADY M! LADY M! LADY M! 

 I hope its not Macross the first animated tho, only from the valk viewpoint...i would like to see totally new valks designs!

 

18 hours ago, Marzan said:

Hear, hear!!

Triple hear for jenius air! 

10 hours ago, Nazareno2012 said:

Great news, just hope this does not end up being as crappy as Delta. As someone who watches Macross for the mecha and ship designs, that means more mecha action and ship battles than Delta had.

I agree and thk the writers need to fine-tune that balance of mecha v idols that plagued delta so much. More valk variations can help to have fresh action scenes too...
Lastly, hope they still base the show in planetscape, to give more credence to fighter mode. 

 

[dizman]

22 hours ago, Gordon Freeman said:

Robot battles and big explosions are not the primary reasons Gundam is still going strong in Japan.

 

21 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

 

I kind of feel like it is though.

On a good day I'd like to say it is 50/50 but most times it is the robot battles that push it forward.

 

Lotsa good news all at once, I guess Delta did better than we want to admit for things to move this fast. I'm cool with a new show, even fine with the team that did Delta as long as they learned from their mistakes. My hopes would be for a story with a smaller scale that doesn't end with the galaxy riding on the outcome like the last three shows. Here's to hoping we get cool new Valk designs and maybe get to see the Sv-154 in action.

[Seto Kaiba]

52 minutes ago, Gordon Freeman said:

Kawamori is no Hideo Komjima or Yoshiyuki Tomino . At least they can get their points across to the audience with some subtly. The main reasons Plus and Frontier are looked at fondly for much of the fandom is because the writers of Cowboy Bepop, Noein and Code Geass were doing the heavy lifting when it came to the plot. On his own Kawamori isn't any good as a writer.

... are you serious? 

You DO know that Shoji Kawamori didn't write Macross and that Yoshiyuki Tomino didn't write Gundam, right?  They created the core concepts for their respective series and directed (in whole or in part) the shows that came from those concepts, but the screenplays for the shows and movies in their respective metaseries mostly came from other pens.  You could argue neither is a fantastic writer based on their solo writing credits in those franchises (Macross Zero and Reconguista in G respectively), but neither can be credited with the actual writing in most of the titles in the franchises they created.  You can't blame Kawamori for the writing in Macross Delta because he wasn't the writer... Toshizo Nemoto was.

Also, that argument lost any real weight it might've had when you tried to pass that hack Hideo "Nanobot Textdump" Kojima off as a writer of any skill... the man is famous for mistaking obtuseness for depth.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[kajnrig]

asdf

3 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

All this complaining is starting to sound like the forums for The-Show-That-Must-Not-Be-Named.  Having lurked there, they've done nothing but complain about Delta, and Macross in general, and they've got nothing but nostalgia to go by.

What IS, generally, the HG-branded take on Macross? I can't imagine it must be THAT negative, considering so much of Macross, including the soap opera pop music elements, formed the backbone of Robotech...

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There certainly is a parallel in that the fans here keep coming back to Macross Plus as if it were the platonic ideal of a Macross show, despite the fact that it didn't do very well in Japan and is almost literally Macross in name only, simply because it's darker and more action-oriented.

Regarding Plus, it's hard to argue against the fact that it was and remains the storytelling high mark of the franchise. I still hold up the movie edition as one of the gold standards of anime. Macross Zero has similarly dark tones and way, way more action, yet lags far behind in the storytelling department.

Also, Kojima is about the least subtle game director. He's still one of the very few Good Auteurs out there, who makes good games that succeed despite their/his glaring flaws, but subtle is most certainly not in his vocabulary.

Edited January 30, 2017 by kajnrig